@mascaras: Here in germany the first ones are listed @ about 250€ (512MB)
BTW: 3:2 :D
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@mascaras: Here in germany the first ones are listed @ about 250€ (512MB)
BTW: 3:2 :D
More than 250€ for the 512mb sounds quite disappointing...
I would have expected a little more aggressive price or at least, 1gb of gddr5 :shakes:
:mad::mad::mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
For me that price should be for the 1GB GDDR5 ones :down:
Let's see if "Allah" won't punishes you :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
:up:
Seems like a bit of meh. I hope the 512mb of ram doesn't hold back the core and memory bandwidth. And I hate relying on partner company's non-reference parts, they're usually scarce and always overpriced.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
So the 4870 is just an overclocked 4850 with DDR5...
And a dual slot cooler :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
Although I must admit ASUS 4850 1GB with the custom Glacia cooler looks nice :)
Well... yes :rolleyes: . With higher tdp, and hopefully with a better cooling solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
So there's really 0 chance that it will be better than a GTX 260Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius_pt
Time will tell, we do not know if the 4850 is "bandwidth" starved or if the extra clock rate will help quite a bit to, there is no doubt that the 4870 is an attractive purchase, perhaps even more so than I am expectingQuote:
Originally Posted by natty
John
Wasn't there this German e-tailer that had a 4870 with 1 GB for around €250 up for pre-order? It has been posted here somewhere I believe, but it might have been taken down.Quote:
Originally Posted by w0mbat
Only 3:2, that's a rather poor victory :p:.
I hope we can survive the Russians as I think they may be surprisingly good.
Even HD4850 is sometimes better than GTX260 so HD4870 will come close & is more silent, has DX10.1/UVD/HDMI, and so on...
@Helmore: If u play, like u played the games before u will be for shure the next european masters.
Radeon 4870 for £1.18!
I'm guessing its a typo and they mean £118 + VAT & Shipping
There are some reports of a +60% boost in performance compared to the 4850 with really demanding settings, like 1920x1200 @24xCFAA 16xAF and the like. It will be at least 20% faster so that's a good start, especially because the 4850 is already ahead of the GTX260 in some rare occasions and drivers can change a lot probably.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
its £1.00 + VAT :P only placeholder though, price will be upto 150+ once stock is confirmed.Quote:
Originally Posted by initialised
And you were expecting exactly what??Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
We all knew that 4870 will be 20% over 625Mhz for the core and 2x the bandwidth of the 4850.
If all this bring a hefty 25% lead of 4850 out of the box,it would mean that 4870 could very well be challenging and beating GTX260 card.Also due to better power supply to the core on the 4870,we can expect better OCing while the GDDR5 will provide enough bandwidth to feed it.Add in Asus or similar partner which will bring much better 3rd party cooling solutions,the 4870 will probably be the best perf./$/watt card out there,bar none.
Hmm, we've covered this already, unless you can find a more complete list than the ones on the official sites. The number of PC games using Havok comes to a grand total of 44, while you are correct about the Physx number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkeywoman
That can never be, the lowest end cards are always the best performance/money components, if you don't believe me look at an average benchmark and work out the frames given per dollar spent, as it stands right now the 3850/9600GT are still the best bang-for-buck cards around.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
It can be if 4870 drop in price to ~299-320$.The amount of computing power would be unbeatable for the price
Well im ordering a pair of Acceleros with the 4870's then! Artic cooling must be laughing knowing they'll be out of stock soon :ROTF:Quote:
Originally Posted by tenebre
I just picked up 2 4850's for some crossfire for $300 usd out the door!!! :up::up:
This should run all my games at 1920x1200 4xaa no issues.
I jumped on the ati (AMD) bandwagon when the 9800pro was the best. I have no problems switching back. actually, the 7900's were my only nvidia choice since my geforce 3 ti500.... x800 aiw, 9600xt, 9600pro, the 7900's and now im leaning towards a 4850.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
4850 sounds geat, but i just wish i knew how it would perform first...
Quote:
Originally Posted by rozzyroz
The look at some of the dozens of reviews that are up?
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Cyph3r
OK i was testing one of the cards i got, and this thing idles at 65c-70c woah!!!!! i need an aftermarket cooler for these cards, they are wayy to hot, they should have been a dual slot design, this is crazy, it took 10 minutes to cool down............any sugestions, im using 2 so i need a small cooler, thanks.
Good question. Any coolers already on the market that will fit the 4850/4870?
Opened.
Feel free to discuss when/where appropriate. No need to keep it super busy if there's nothing to say, it's a sticky and not going anywhere :rolleyes:
When 4870 previews begin to emerge, we'll have a new thread for that. Old thread ditched since it's just too premature and the thread had basically 0 useful posts (including the first post).
holy batman temps. Just got mine today and I'm idling at 70!!!!
I think this card needs an aftermarket cooler BIG TIME. Other than that... for $150, I think It's an excellent performer.
if it works without troubles who cares of temperature?Quote:
Originally Posted by n91htmare
Please keep those stupid non-contributive comments to your self.:stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
High temps will hamper your OC capability and shorten life length.
Seek, read and learn.
It idles hot because the fan is turned right down and stays there, and power play seems to leave it run a bit high.. (500mhz). So as soon as we can turn the fan up, or power play updates from next catalyst turn freq down; the temp'll be a bit high. However, I haven't run in to any stability problems at all yet with mine.
Also, some have mentioned that pulling HS/Fan and changing HS paste to something better, drops the core temp. So you could always try that if you want.
Edit: My HIS HD3870 acted in a similar fashion; very low fan speed and higher temperature yet super quiet. My Sapphire 4850 is really, really quiet as well.
so there is going to be 4 version HD4850 510mb, HD4850 1GB, HD4870 512MB, and HD4870 1GB. I am interested to the HD4870 1GB any one know when will that come out?
by the way is any different in 512mb and 1gb in benching? For say any one try the HD3850 1gb is any different in benching than the HD3850 512mb?
The other components in the case. The hot air doesn't go out of the case, so we CARE if the card is hot or not ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by MAS
For me 1gb video memory is far much if you are not running on 24"+ display with resolution 1920x1200+. The price will be higher too and the 512mb model is more attractive(for me).Quote:
Originally Posted by mr2sw21
True. But then again, most cards that exhaust into the case share this issue... As in all single slot cards? Also, the temp of the core doesn't quite equate to how much its heating the case. If a side issue is inefficient heat sink transfer material, then the core itself is reading a higher temp because of lack of proper heat transfer to heat sink, and then into case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuen4y
Example, if the core is reading say 90 degrees, and a portion of that is due to inefficient heat transfer... and a second card has a core temp of around 55 degrees... Its not a simple comparison as to which is heating the other components more. If the core on the second card is larger, and has very efficient transfer material; it could be dumping more heat into the case then the first card.
Long story short; the core temp doesn't indicate how much heat is being dumped into the case. That being said... The card idles @ too high a frequency IMO.. and as such, that could be fixed, and that would lower heat generation, which would lessen heat being dumped into case.
:confused: are you going to OC using stock cooler?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint
:eek: the card will live 10 years instead of 15. coolQuote:
Originally Posted by Clint
For sure. Its more down to the TDP of the gpu/pcb than anything. I'm still for dual slot coolers though as they do make a marked difference in both noise and case ambient temp.Quote:
Originally Posted by darkskypoet
Aren't the 4xxx supposed to have a 2D clock as well for idling like the GT200s?
As far as component life time due to overclocking, when done properly the hardware will be WAY obsolete before it ever fails on you so thats a moot point. If the cards don't exceed their rated temperature threshold they'll last a good long time and considering most auto fan profiles and down clocking mechanisms prevent this, it shouldn't ever be an issue.
Have to wait until PowerPlay is 4 series compliant. At least that's what I think I read in one of these threads.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenfeed
well considering that both my 2900 xt and my 3870 lower clocks when not in 3d app I'm gonna go out on a limb and say ya, its gonna have a 2d clock :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper
To be honest I don't care:). We just need new version of AtiTool and everyone can adjust the fan and the clocks on their taste.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chickenfeed
Can someone help clear this up? I'm having a tough time trying to figure out how cards communicate over crossfire...and P45 issues - i was under the impression that the bridges that the cards connect to each other with, share data between them, but all the fetching of the textures and the like, are done over the PCIe bus, correct?
Now, the other thing is with P45. A single PCIe 1.0 16x slot provides 4GB/sec of bandwidth, and a single PCIe 2.0 16x slot provides 8GB/sec of bandwidth....P45's having PCIe 2.0 8x/8x setup for crossfire is the same as having a pair of PCIe 1.0 16x slots, as each PCIe 2.0 8x provides 4GB/sec of bandwidth, correct?
So why is it then, that in the Tweaktown review that was done that pitted the P45 vs the X48 have CF on the P45 tank so badly when it got to Crysis, even at low resolutions? The mild 10% performance hit i can fathom, and as well in the 2560xstupid resolutions they were using, but from 35fps at 1280x1024 to 21fps? I'm sorry but i dont buy that. A single HD4850 hands my 8800GT its own arse at 'Very High', and my 8800GT gets 29.03fps at 1440x900... so here i am wondering, is that review flawed, or have i dropped into a coma and all of this is some elaborate way of my mind telling me that nothing is real and i need to wake up....?
If its the former, can someone on the forum please do an independant CF test of P45 vs X38 (DDR2 to DDR2, not DDR2 to DDR3) and test Crysis? And if its the latter, can someone please ring Gene Hunt?
(cue David Bowies "Life on Mars")
That is correct, along with increased power delivery at the slot with the v2.0 spec.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Robinson
As for the abnormal P45 performance I don't know what to make of that. I hope its merely a driver problem as I doubt that these cards would be over saturating the bus ( haven't done the math ) but it might be possible. If thats the case this sucks as you'd think the 4850s would be a very popular entry level crossfire option on a P45 board. I'd wait for some more numbers like you said before we panic though. I'm sure someone on the boards here has 2 4850s on a P45 already.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Robinson
It could be that the Tweaktown review is simply loads of crap? Maybe some driver problems, who knows.
i think P45 & [x38, x48] are all pcie 2.0, so P45 is at PCIe 2.0 8x/8x and x38,x48 is at PCIe 2.0 16x/16x
don't know where pcie 1.1 comes in to it
Bill - it was supposed to illustrate that PCIe 2.0 boards are a relatively new occurrence, and beforehand, when dealing with boards that have two PCIe 1.0 16x slots, Crossfire is fine. Now we have PCIe 2.0 8x (which is the same bandwidth), that suddenly, is no longer enough, and we're saturating the bus (supposedly).
I'm hoping its driver issues, at any rate.
I too want a 2nd opinion on the Tweaktown review... a lot of people will ditch the P45 easy setup and clocking for the more expensive X38/48 variant mobo's if this test is completely accurate... it's possible a simple bios update will cure this, also don't get why they didn't test a second P45 of another brand to be sure that their findings are spot on....
I find it pretty logic that there has to be a difference but this is a bit too much for all the Crossfire fans out there...
yeah, well, i was also thinking about the whole: is 8x8xpci-e2.0 enuf for 4850cf question...vs pci-e2.0 16x16x...but i didnt quite get to posting the question. some more reviews comparing 8x8x to 16x16x pci-e 2.0 would be handy to compare, confirm, disconfirm...
but if 8x8x is supposedly = to 16x16x pci-e1.0 i wouldnt have thought your "bus" would be clogged. some proof will pop up sometime this millennium
..you know with all those free samples i get :lol: i'll just pop off and do a test, and rewrite some drivers while im waiting :brick::p:
Where did you get them for that cheep?Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
The bandwidth of 8x PCIe 2.0 is plenty for these cards unless Crossfire is now done very differently. The problem could be latencties, which I doubt make such an impact, or more likely some kind of bug.
I have a lot of hope for the P45 as i really do need the ICH10R, which neither the X38 or the X48 boards have :(
That and the Asus 16-phase PWM = winola and cake.
EDIT: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...-0,1915-3.html
Take a look at that - you'll notice that 8x PCIe 2.0 is more than enough for even the 9800, the only app to really use the extra bandwidth being MS Flight Sim....but then, that game wouldn't be happy unless you threw BlueGene/L at it.
although 8x8x surely enuf for older games.Quote:
Once larger textures need to be accessed, as is the case in Crysis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crysis or Microsoft’s Flight Simulator http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_simulator X, interface bandwidth becomes a crucial element. Any link width below x16 will noticeably limit these games’ playability. [:eek::)]
The answer, thus, has to be "yes": you want maximum bandwidth, and PCI Express 2.0, for all sorts of sophisticated 3D applications
:shrug: er um P45 a single card mobo or low end CF then...?
If you look specifically here: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...0,1915-10.html
You'll see that even at 1900x1200, High Quality, the framerate from by going from PCIe 2.0 16x to 8x, is 1.3fps....
Something about the Tweaktown review seems....wonky.
All I know is that we keep saying we won't need the bandwidth, but eventually we're going to get there, so maybe we're finally reaching those limits?
oh i have been doing my homework :), but none have any eq2 tests posted. was just hoping that someone here that had one could try the trial and give some impressions.Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Cyph3r
I heard that ATI Xfire / SLI doesn't support dual screening, what's the story on that?
crossfire does sli does not afaikQuote:
Originally Posted by Akane
Niether used to, now, xfire does for sure, SLI Im not sure. Havent kept up on their drivers in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akane
HIS HD 4870 is out in Hong Kong
Two shops in Hong Kong are selling the HIS HD 4870 for HK$2390 / US$306. I don't know about you but I'm hoping our friends in Hong Kong can sell enough of these cards so that AMD has to move the date up to say about July 1.
Here's an OCW thread you might be interested in.
AMD Radeon HD4870 Retail product on sale IN HK
Sweet, just chucked my 8800GTS on the market, hopefully 4870x2 makes it out on time or else I'm screwed with no video card to use.
That comes from this thread...Quote:
Originally Posted by johnp1983
http://translate.google.com/translat...a%3Dpage%253D1
If this is to be true, looks like the 4870 is a damn fine card.
^^
looool
4870X2 is going to dominate so hard
Here are a couple more tidbits.
ASUS Launches World's First 1GB Onboard Memory Version for EAH4800 Series
The news item disappeared for a time but then came back.
Attachment 80861
Attachment 80862
Hidden in those specs for the HD 4850 cards is a 512MB Asus EAH4870/HTDI/512M card. I need a new leather mouse pad.
And then there's this from a Canadian online retailer. They have a Sapphire HD 4870 online sale $328.95, no stock.
Attachment 80860
Wow :cool:
Looks like a Singular 4870 is nearly up there with the GT280 GTX. and that the Crossfire is near to the 280GTX SLi
I wonder if ATi crippled their benchmarks using some sort of 3rd tier CPU instead of a Core2Quad Extreme Yorkfield as well.
If that is the case than a QX9650 on a X-38 will get some serious Crossfire Loving.
I wonder if some board partners will release 800Mhz versions with custom coolers and 1GB of RAM :p:
John
what's about this:
new hotfix for 4800 series:
It has numerours tweaks and changes. I would recommend using it.
Dave Baumann B3D
http://media.bestofmicro.com/B/Z/989...x1200_high.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Kai Robinson
>Zero< AA-^
http://media.bestofmicro.com/C/M/989...allofduty4.png
...^
but yeah not exactly anything to write home about, considering it's a 9800gx2....but,
the flight simulator with "game AA and AF" whatever settings they may be:
http://media.bestofmicro.com/C/R/989...simulatorx.png
makes me think that ultra high AA and AF setting may blow yr bandwidth out, in some games.
even though most of the graphs show virtually NO difference between 8x and 16x pci-e2.0 with a 9800gx2, most of these are done with 0 AA, and or with games like prey and the like that are in the 100fps zone anyway, rather than a crysis like uber graphics bound/bandwidth limit pushing situation.
but anyway, 85fps instead of 100fps big whoopee do, eh? doubtful that most would notice any bandwidth limitation with 8x8x...
i guess
http://www.zanarkand.co.uk/ww/32.PNG
^-huckleberry hound :D
http://www.kkk.com.ua/uploads/2007/11/pcie_01.png
Heres another example of performance of 8x vs 16x :up:
"spills to system RAM" oo interesting
doesn't technically every gfx card use system ram for games to some extent?
i was assuming/guessing they were referring to data that should be kept in vram, but as i do not know how it works...
Radeon™ HD 4800 Series Hotfix IS OUT!
http://support.ati.com/ics/support/K...estionID=35298
This Hotfix improves overall performance and stability.
All the benchs needs to redo
If link says "session expired":Quote:
Originally Posted by ORBR
Start here: http://support.ati.com/ics/support/d...asp?deptID=894
then scroll down to [ Most Recent Topics ]
2. Radeon™ HD 4800 Series Hotfix 6/20/2008
Video ram is shared on 48xx with crossfire mode.
For 3D, and HD decode.
From PCInLife? Source? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by madcho
A French web site ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Macadamia
The NDA is partially out in france on 4850. ;)
read this ...
http://www.generation-3d.com/Radeon-...50,ar295-1.htm
Is this different from the 38xx or 88xx series I wonder? If so id imagine ddr3 and pcie will become more important. Im I barking up the wrong tree on this. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by madcho
pci-e 16x 2.0 will be important to reach maximum performance.Quote:
Originally Posted by wideband
DDR3 is not usefull to the cpu for the moment. ;)
what NDA??Quote:
Originally Posted by madcho
Quote:
Effective 9:00 AM EDT on Thursday, June 19th, AMD will be lifting the embargo preventing the publishing of ATI Radeon HD 4850 performance previews.
These performance previews may include ATI Radeon HD 4850 benchmarks, photos of the ATI Radeon HD 4850 hardware, information printed on related packaging or photos of the packaging itself and related pricing information.
http://www.techpowerup.com/63335/AMD...ies_Today.html
Quote:
Originally Posted by ORBR
that Hotfix was released 2 days Ago!
Quote:
HD4870 512Mb GDDR5 Preview
http://img78.imageshack.us/img78/536...eon4870gb8.jpg
E8200 @ 3200mhz & HD4870 512MB GDDR5 default
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3...on48701ub4.jpg
E8200 a 3200mhz & HD4870 512MB GDDR5 default, 1920x1200 4xAA 16xAF
http://my.ocworkbench.com/bbs/attach...1&d=1213995464
E8200 @ 3400mhz & HD4870 512MB GDDR5 default @ 1920x1200 (Vantage Xtreme)
http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/9425/3mvxlr9.th.jpg
E8200 @ 3400mhz, HD4870 512MB GDDR5 default (Vantage Performance)
http://img75.imageshack.us/img75/5714/3dmvply9.th.jpg
Few Games >>> http://translate.google.com/translat...a%3Dpage%253D1
regards
thats nothing new, when the frame buffer of the videocard is full, parts of the main memory is used for storing texture, but its slow as hell... even with 16x pcie 2.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by adamsleath
16x pcie 2.0 has 16GB/s (8Gb/s in each direction), thats roughly the same as a HD3470 has, and latancy is also a high.
There's still an NDA covering the details of the architecture until tomorrow afaikQuote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
SB750 has IMC according to internal AMD papers...could this be used to manage video ram?:hrhr:
I hope there will be AIBs that will bring a 4870 to the market with a single 8-pin connector as my PSU does have 2 of those, but not 4 6-pin connectors. That way I may have an upgrading option for later.
The NDA has fallen at Tuesday, this week, which means 17.06 ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by BrowncoatGR
Eh whateh...Quote:
Originally Posted by cadaveca
Where's that 'paper'? AMD can't even get their own specs/docs in order...:rofl:
No, not completely, those that are under NDA are actually still under NDA but they were allowed to release a preview of the 4850. They however are not allowed to talk about what's inside the chip and stuff like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuen4y
I'm sure there are quite couple of peeps that know what the R700 is made of, but none of them is allowed to talk about it :(. Even the 4870 does still not officially exist.
Oh, it exists :) http://www.unleashonetera.com/Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
The marketing is falling behind from the trade department :).Quote:
Originally Posted by Aivas47a
Doesn't it seem kind of funny to have an NDA on 4850 architecture when the cards are already on sale and in use? :confused:
It's fault to seller, witch didn't respected the NDA ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Aivas47a
more like fault of ati, noone can expect a dealer to have dead inventory for several weeks. :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by madcho
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...has-arrived/13Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Robinson
multigpu on p45.
I agree, seems fishy, either that or the gigabyte board cant do good crossfire, asus seems to be fine, i trust bit tech alot more than tweak town......im getting my p5q3 tommorow, i already have my 2 4850's in hand, so i can let you know the truth about p45 crossfire.Quote:
Originally Posted by flopper
Do you have an X38/X48 board to compare to?Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Naw bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
any result yet, can't wait, thanks bro.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Yes, but the test has been done with 2 HD3870 , not HD4850 and perhaps the results would have been different because the HD4850 are more powerful .:shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by flopper
well find out soon, i get my board monday here in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeanjean15
Ok, fine ! So , let's wait .;)Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
1) Will the 4870 need a Bios fix like the 3870 to hit 1Ghz and above on the core.... :p:
2) Omega drivers dont seem to be updated anymore, any other way of installing ATI drivers only but still have control over AA/AAF settings. I do not want to install the annoying .NET Framework just for the CCC function.... :(
Yeah, I too would like to know how the 4850/4870 performs on the p5q. If I don't have to get the expensive x48 board I'd rather settle for a $200 P5Q Deluxe.