6800le 'Black Screen' - The Complete Guide: Identification, modification and reason

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

09-21-2006, 03:05 AM
lenselijer

here are my answers:
1. It's a red MSI card with the giant copper coolblock. I changed that to a Zalman VF900 already.
It came with only purple capacitors and i could see someone soldered these 2 pieces onto it, because it was not a nice solder job, there was some solder on the components around it.
2. Yes i solder it on TP9/TP10, it was a 6000uf 16v, i got it from my tv dealer. Same problem with only the 2 purple capacitors.
3. yes, these are 16v 1500uF, -40C+105C, no screen at all

I also soldered 2 capacitors from my old xbox motherboard, 3000uF and 6,3V but the monitor turns green for 5 seconds, then orange again, nothing on the screen.
I think all the capacitors i used/bought have the correct voltage and uF values but the ESR or something is too bad.

I think when i solder 2 good quality capacitors on the card it will work again, but its hard to find here :(
09-21-2006, 05:53 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenselijer

here are my answers:
1. It's a red MSI card with the giant copper coolblock. I changed that to a Zalman VF900 already.
It came with only purple capacitors and i could see someone soldered these 2 pieces onto it, because it was not a nice solder job, there was some solder on the components around it.
2. Yes i solder it on TP9/TP10, it was a 6000uf 16v, i got it from my tv dealer. Same problem with only the 2 purple capacitors.
3. yes, these are 16v 1500uF, -40C+105C, no screen at all

I also soldered 2 capacitors from my old xbox motherboard, 3000uF and 6,3V but the monitor turns green for 5 seconds, then orange again, nothing on the screen.
I think all the capacitors i used/bought have the correct voltage and uF values but the ESR or something is too bad.

I think when i solder 2 good quality capacitors on the card it will work again, but its hard to find here :(

OK, thank for comments. Your explanation makes the 'case' more clear. MSI cards have been the most hard to modify. This means that adding an extra capacitor in most case do not help too much and even after the capaciotors have been replacedthe BS-free memory clock frequency is not very high, say ~800 MHz. I have a theory why MSI-cards (even when modified) are not working well and it is explained in document (relating to feedback of regulator).

As you said, it is very likely your card has been already modified by somebody (extra solder) and therefore these purple capacitors should be ok (even now !!). ((I think that only the first soldering of the card will ruin the components, since it is performed using automated soldering, high temperature -> RoHs problem)

What BS-free frequency you had with initial condition (purple capacitors) ? Or did you get BS at stock frequencies ?

The ESR value of capacitors REALLY maters, that can be reason why now the card is not working . Also adding a too high capacitance value (6000 uF ?) between TP's might burn some of MOSFET's driving regulator. This happened to one user (result no signal) and he could repair the card be changing one MOSFET. I suggest at first to solder original purple capacitors back to test whether MOSFET's are ok (to see something in screen). Do you have a multimeter, are you familiar to voltage/resistance measurements ?
09-23-2006, 08:32 AM
lenselijer

yes i have a multimeter, but i dont know where to measure.

i soldered the purple capacitors back and i had screen again, but when it tries to boot windows xp it goes black, and its not the drivers or rivatuner, because my ti4200 works fine when i put that in the same computer. this was at stock frequency.

Because i bend the pin of the purple capacitors i broke it, so it cannot use them again :(

If you could send me 2 new capacitors so i can solder them on the card i can do some more tests for you.
09-25-2006, 04:01 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenselijer

yes i have a multimeter, but i dont know where to measure.

i soldered the purple capacitors back and i had screen again, but when it tries to boot windows xp it goes black, and its not the drivers or rivatuner, because my ti4200 works fine when i put that in the same computer. this was at stock frequency.

Because i bend the pin of the purple capacitors i broke it, so it cannot use them again :(

If you could send me 2 new capacitors so i can solder them on the card i can do some more tests for you.

Sorry about delayed answer...

--

Since you got card somehow working again (=screen) it is likely there are no other major problems. I have some OSCON-capacitors that has been successfully tested (see my post #820, some pages ago..). If you want to test those I can send few samples => send PM for me and give your address.
10-05-2006, 03:25 AM
Keats

Hey there SikaRippa!

Three months ago I bought a MSI NX6800SP from a friend of mine. He says the card was working perfectly in his system. However, when I started using it, sadly it gave me black screens all the time in certain apps. I was convinced it was a driver issue, so for three months I tried alot of different things to get the card to work. In the end I even tried a seperate power supply for the card, but nothing helped. I even crashed with new installs.

Here's the funny part. Doom3 and Quake 4 ran fine, except for the bathroom-levels, where it would give me bs sometimes. Fear ran fine! I ran Fear auto-configured, and finished the game with only one bs after hours of playing. However, in other games it would give me bs inmediately. For example: Railroad Tycoon 3, which is an old game. EVE Online would BS inmediately, as would ANY HL2-engine based game. I used to play Counterstrike Source, so this was the main reason of my frustrations. I have a Vista RC1 install, and in on that install CS:S would run for ~30 minutes before bs'ing (I later found out that this was due to the fact that I had V-sync off in Vista).

Because Fear & Doom3 ran fine I thought it was a driver issue. I was however desperate and that's when I found this forum. I checked the caps on my card and indeed, I have the 48 470 6E version caps. I got a good quality 10V 1000mF cap from my local electronic components supplier, soldered the thing between TP9 & TP10, and voila! Problem solved! The soldering was a b1tch by the way, it was my first time smd, the solder wouldn't take to the solderjoints (I put the cap on the side of the other caps). I can now overclock the card to 355 - 875. I have the vertex shaders unlocked, but both the disabled pipes are completely fux0red.

So, the morale of the story is... thank you very much ;) I read and re-read everything in this thread. I also read that MSI's are prone to post-capmod failure, so I'm thinking of doing the enhanced cap-mod. I looked for suitable replacements online. The Chemi-con PXE's are virtually unavailable, but the Sanyo SVP's are available through Farnell. However, Farnell charges E3,50 for EACH of them. That doesn't include hadling & shipping. My local supplier could get them for E7,80 EACH. So I went online and I found this site:

http://www.surplussales.com/Capacito...faceMount.html

Minimum order is $10, minimum shipping is $7 (after inquiry by email), which is sufficient for small quantities.

"
$7 is our minimum shipping charge and that would cover letter post. Tax or
duty, if due on your end, is not included.
"

They have the Sanyo SVP's for $0.60 each! So I'm going to order some, and try the mod! ;) I'll let you know how it works out. Also, I live in The Netherlands, so anyone living nearby is lucky, I can ship them for a small compensation ;-)

Edit:
For the Sanyo's I can really recommend this:

http://www.secc.co.jp/english/produc...r/e_index.html

All the Sanyo specs in a pdf:

http://www.secc.co.jp/pdf/2005/oscon/e/e_os_all.pdf
10-05-2006, 04:44 AM
Keats

The other caps on the site (surplussales) are not suited for the application. The Sanyo CV-AX series have a low ripple current, although they have a higher capacitance. The NIC NACZ are like the CV-AX'es.

If you look at the specs for the SPV series in the pdf in my previous post, you'll notice that there are actually different types of Sanyo SPVs. Their measurements vary as well (although mostly in height), so if anyone is ever going to read this, make sure you get the 10x10 mm versions! This goes ofcourse also for any other brand you might be getting. Size of the SMD caps was actually one of the things I missed in the version 2.1 manual for fixing 6800LE BS'es ;)
10-07-2006, 01:31 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keats

The other caps on the site (surplussales) are not suited for the application. The Sanyo CV-AX series have a low ripple current, although they have a higher capacitance. The NIC NACZ are like the CV-AX'es.

If you look at the specs for the SPV series in the pdf in my previous post, you'll notice that there are actually different types of Sanyo SPVs. Their measurements vary as well (although mostly in height), so if anyone is ever going to read this, make sure you get the 10x10 mm versions! This goes ofcourse also for any other brand you might be getting. Size of the SMD caps was actually one of the things I missed in the version 2.1 manual for fixing 6800LE BS'es ;)

Hi,

Short comments, little bit busy ;)

--

Thank you for detailed report: 'MSI NX6800SP' is a new 'BS-model', but since the problems seems to be exactly the same as 6800LE it propably is the same model, just the name is different... Yep, it might be true (and sad :( ) that your model will not be completely fixed with extra cap but a replacement is required later.

Thank you for info about capacitor supplier and new SVP-models :toast: . In the time I wrote the document there was only two versions for SVP-capacitor (normal and a high temperature version 'Q'). These new models (also from other suppliers) are just fine in this purpose if the specifications listed in the document are fullfilled: Electrical and mechanical properties. The physical size of the capacitors is indeed critical point especially if a different type of cooler would be installed. E.g. NV5 can not be installed if the capacitors are even ~2 mm higher than originals !!
10-07-2006, 12:07 PM
Keats

I ordered 18 of them, for $10,80. Shipping via Letter post was $5, I'm hoping to get them somewhere this week. Surplussales was very user-friendly. Fast replies to my questions, fast execution of my order and when they needed advice for shipping they sent me an email the same day.

Let's hope the caps will arrive safely, let's hope that they are the right ones, and that there is not some kind of hidden charge to my bill ;)

I'll let you know when I get them ;)
10-08-2006, 07:05 AM
lenselijer

I soldered the 3 new capacitors i received from SikaRippa today.

But i still get black screen errors, it looks like it happens as soon as the resolution gets higher then 800x600.

I can use windows xp safe mode in 640x480 fine, but when i change the resolution to 1024x768 i get black screen again :(
10-10-2006, 09:13 AM
Keats

where do you live? maybe I can help...
10-11-2006, 01:44 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenselijer

I soldered the 3 new capacitors i received from SikaRippa today.

But i still get black screen errors, it looks like it happens as soon as the resolution gets higher then 800x600.

I can use windows xp safe mode in 640x480 fine, but when i change the resolution to 1024x768 i get black screen again :(

I am sorry could not reply before - extremely busy in real world :( :(

--

I wonder what is problem with your card.... As you told before it came from second hand, and those capacitors were replaced already (?). The capacitors I sent for you SHOULD fix the problem IF soldering is performed properly (=no cold solder). If there is no difference in performance difference between before and after replacement (any??), the problem might be due to some other issue.

Since you get BS also/allways in 2D-mode (could you confirm?), it is not a typical BS-case. In the case of 'normal' BS-cards BS appears in 3D-mode when a high load is applied.

I suggest to double check the card (any other damage) and heat/smelt solder of replaced capacitors again properly.
10-11-2006, 12:26 PM
tr23

Hi peoples!
I want to give some interesting info, which i get after i solve BS issue, sometimes when i play (with overclocked settings) the game or just live pc for 24 hours it freeze (no BS, i see picture) and after that i can only restart pc, heh but sometimes it restart automatically :)
In the next days i will receive the game Gothic 3 and i test again with overclocked settings , heh hope it work without any problems :)
10-11-2006, 01:36 PM
lenselijer

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

I am sorry could not reply before - extremely busy in real world :( :(

--

I wonder what is problem with your card.... As you told before it came from second hand, and those capacitors were replaced already (?). The capacitors I sent for you SHOULD fix the problem IF soldering is performed properly (=no cold solder). If there is no difference in performance difference between before and after replacement (any??), the problem might be due to some other issue.

Since you get BS also/allways in 2D-mode (could you confirm?), it is not a typical BS-case. In the case of 'normal' BS-cards BS appears in 3D-mode when a high load is applied.

I suggest to double check the card (any other damage) and heat/smelt solder of replaced capacitors again properly.

it doesnt matter, i'm not in a hurry, i still got my ti4200 card :)

yes it came from the shop with the capacitors already replaced. purple sanyo ones.
I soldered your capacitors and there is no change. so i think the capacitors were not the problem after all :(

I get also BS in 2d-mode. I can only use low-resolutions, when i switch to high resolution it will BS. I can look at the bios menu and work in dos, or windows xp safe mode, but when i set the resolution high then it will BS.

Also it BS when i try to install new nvidia drivers, it will BS at about 50% into the nvidia installation program.

I double-checked but i cannot find any damage, like i said, it was working perfect for over a month, but one day it just gave BS when i tried to boot into windows.

And no, its not my windows xp installation since i tried the knoppix linux live cd, and it also give BS when it goes to high resolution.

My warranty is gone since i put a zalman cooler instead of the stock one, so i'm willing to try/measure everything possible to find the cause.
10-12-2006, 03:43 AM
Keats

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr23

Hi peoples!
I want to give some interesting info, which i get after i solve BS issue, sometimes when i play (with overclocked settings) the game or just live pc for 24 hours it freeze (no BS, i see picture) and after that i can only restart pc, heh but sometimes it restart automatically :)
In the next days i will receive the game Gothic 3 and i test again with overclocked settings , heh hope it work without any problems :)

Sounds like your card is just clocked too high...

Definitely not BS ;)
10-12-2006, 03:50 AM
Keats

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenselijer

it doesnt matter, i'm not in a hurry, i still got my ti4200 card :)

yes it came from the shop with the capacitors already replaced. purple sanyo ones.
I soldered your capacitors and there is no change. so i think the capacitors were not the problem after all :(

I get also BS in 2d-mode. I can only use low-resolutions, when i switch to high resolution it will BS. I can look at the bios menu and work in dos, or windows xp safe mode, but when i set the resolution high then it will BS.

Also it BS when i try to install new nvidia drivers, it will BS at about 50% into the nvidia installation program.

I double-checked but i cannot find any damage, like i said, it was working perfect for over a month, but one day it just gave BS when i tried to boot into windows.

And no, its not my windows xp installation since i tried the knoppix linux live cd, and it also give BS when it goes to high resolution.

My warranty is gone since i put a zalman cooler instead of the stock one, so i'm willing to try/measure everything possible to find the cause.

I did have a BS in Windows one day, but that was only once. The crashing at higher resolution sounds weird, but it does ring a bell somehow somewhere. I would try the card in a different computer, if you haven't done that yet.

Is it impossible to put the stock cooler back on after you've put on a Zalman? I have no warranty anymore anyway, so if you need a stock cooler I'm willing to trade mine for your zalman :P The stock cooler is fine tbh, it's pretty silent in Windows, and in games Idon't care if it goes to noisy 100%

PS I got my Sanyo's today, 17 (instad of 18), looks like they're from an older batch, but they look ok :) If anyone needs some, I can send some for a small compensation.

I don't know if I will solder them on my card right away, as my card works properly now. I want to do it, but there's this saying.. "if it ain't broken, don't try to fix it"
10-13-2006, 06:11 AM
tr23

Quote:

Sounds like your card is just clocked too high...

Definitely not BS

Heh, well after i did the enhanced mod , i have no issues with BS.
Yesterday, i've got Gothic3 and it work perfectly!
10-17-2006, 06:46 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenselijer

it doesnt matter, i'm not in a hurry, i still got my ti4200 card :)

yes it came from the shop with the capacitors already replaced. purple sanyo ones.
I soldered your capacitors and there is no change. so i think the capacitors were not the problem after all :(

I get also BS in 2d-mode. I can only use low-resolutions, when i switch to high resolution it will BS. I can look at the bios menu and work in dos, or windows xp safe mode, but when i set the resolution high then it will BS.

Also it BS when i try to install new nvidia drivers, it will BS at about 50% into the nvidia installation program.

I double-checked but i cannot find any damage, like i said, it was working perfect for over a month, but one day it just gave BS when i tried to boot into windows.

And no, its not my windows xp installation since i tried the knoppix linux live cd, and it also give BS when it goes to high resolution.

My warranty is gone since i put a zalman cooler instead of the stock one, so i'm willing to try/measure everything possible to find the cause.

OK, I think this story confirms there are some other problems than 'pure' BS. E.g. case where you got BS while booting means something very wierd... and you had stock settings for pipes/clocks ?

Since the card is *somehow* working a possible reason could be some damage in IC's like GPU or memories. For instance one memory chip can be loosen/damaged (due to cooler replacement etc.). At least in theory a partially un-operating memory could cause excatly similar features you told: random boots, BS ... How to test/fix ?? One solution would be making better contact = tighten A LITTLE BIT screws of coooler, if you have NV5 etc. In the case of stock cooler it is very hard to do anything, since contacts (solder balls) are beneath the memory chips.
10-17-2006, 06:48 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by tr23

Heh, well after i did the enhanced mod , i have no issues with BS.
Yesterday, i've got Gothic3 and it work perfectly!

Nice you got the card working and nice Gothic3 is running with 6800le :toast:
10-17-2006, 12:24 PM
tr23

Quote:

Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Nice you got the card working and nice Gothic3 is running with 6800le :toast:

Well, with middle settings: like shader 1 , high details and high wide view (means the view of area) it works normal.
I use overclocked settings 361/838 , in nvidia driver i use best performance profile and as result i get only from 17 fps up to 20 fps! :-(
Still i think about hardware update , like buying the new 7600Gt or latest processor for my board AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton) , currently i use Athlon XP 2400 133mhz
The video card itself works fine , but sometimes when i overclock it to 420/900
it restart my pc during the game. :(
10-19-2006, 04:16 PM
christos

I need BS Help, little different to other types!

Hi,

I need BS Help, little different to other types!

Hi, I purchased an XFX GF 6800 128MB DDR DUAL DVI TV (AGP8X) with product code : PV-T40K-NDD3 secondhand from ebay, but have ended up looking at this website.

The problems are, no matter what driver I use, After I install a driver, When I boot, just as it gets to the windows login screen the screen goes black, monitor hits standby, But when I reboot , then press f8 then choose "enable vga mode" it will work (in software mode) only when any driver is installed this black screen will occur.

I see a few posts above "lenselijer" is having a similar problem to me!

Quote:

soldered the purple capacitors back and i had screen again, but when it tries to boot windows xp it goes black, and its not the drivers or rivatuner, because my ti4200 works fine when i put that in the same computer. this was at stock frequency.

I have tried the card in another PC and still has same problem. I initially thought as im using dvi > vga adapters this may have caused it, but i see the BS issue seems common and obviously some design fault.

Seems to be using SVP 560 caps marked 502, svp, 560, 10 for C136, C142 & C143
47, 470, 16a for c141,
443, svp, 1500, 2.5 for c138 & c146
504, svp, 330, 16 for both c139 & c148

Anyone have any idea whats wrong?
What do you think has gone?

any help appreciated!
11-08-2006, 07:30 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by christos

Hi,

I need BS Help, little different to other types!

Hi, I purchased an XFX GF 6800 128MB DDR DUAL DVI TV (AGP8X) with product code : PV-T40K-NDD3 secondhand from ebay, but have ended up looking at this website.

The problems are, no matter what driver I use, After I install a driver, When I boot, just as it gets to the windows login screen the screen goes black, monitor hits standby, But when I reboot , then press f8 then choose "enable vga mode" it will work (in software mode) only when any driver is installed this black screen will occur.

I see a few posts above "lenselijer" is having a similar problem to me!

I have tried the card in another PC and still has same problem. I initially thought as im using dvi > vga adapters this may have caused it, but i see the BS issue seems common and obviously some design fault.

Seems to be using SVP 560 caps marked 502, svp, 560, 10 for C136, C142 & C143
47, 470, 16a for c141,
443, svp, 1500, 2.5 for c138 & c146
504, svp, 330, 16 for both c139 & c148

Anyone have any idea whats wrong?
What do you think has gone?

any help appreciated!

Hi,

Sorry about soooooooooooooooooo late post.. *quite* busy in real world :( :(

---

I think the problems you explained above are not due to BS-feature (=standard BS-feature). The 'normal' BS-feature is appeared during a high load (3D load) and any BS, shutdown etc. in 'windows' -mode means some other problem. Maybe you have already solved your problem, but if not I suggest to update drivers etc. and if that does not help -> RMA your card (=some other manufacturing fault ?)
11-14-2006, 05:01 AM
kafkacell

Hi all, I have a PNY 6800 vanilla AGP which started to experience "BS" issues after a year or so (few months ago). There were some driver issues (didn't like new drivers), and also some images issues (flickering in bios and/or windows) yesterday I found out this post and went to a friend to obtain the capacitor (3300uF). Today he will solder it (I didnt' like too much the idea of just putting it).

Anyway, the specs are:

45 470 6E

Also I noticed an increase on the temperature of that part of the card. Hopefully I will post some results this week (main rig is PCIe) because I don't have an AGP board for testing right now.

If you need more info about the card just let me know.
here is the link of the card:
http://www.pny.com/products/verto/di...mance/6800.asp

kind regards
11-14-2006, 05:03 PM
ya_master

hey guys. still kicking? :cool:

after i found my spamfilter messing with my email notifications today i want to give another feedback.

my gainward 6800LE is still running in my little sister's computer and it's just doing fine. :)
still at 12 / 6 and 440 / 850 without any errors or problems.
(vgpu at 1.3v with zalman vf 700-cu at 12v)

after i soldered the cap for a second time some months ago the card was almost bs free. but she wasn't able to play fifa wm 2006 for example. after some time it likely gave a bs so it was no big fun for her.

then i tried to 'upgrade' the old 350w noname psu to a (used) 400w psu from levicom and things got really fu*ked up. :mad: :mad: :mad:
she couldn't play most of her games because there were bs after just some minutes or even seconds. even games that ran fine without capmod just went black then! so much for that. thanks levicom. better keep your sh*t next time!

now she has got a quite nice enermax liberty 400w and nothing seems to bring this gfx card down now. no problems so far. runs like new born. should work till agp is totally finished. ;)
11-15-2006, 04:17 PM
kafkacell

The mod is done, two hours later,everything is fine,and thegames are running smoothly. I tried Battlefield 2142 (which didn't like this card before), NFS Carbon, and also run 3D mark 03 in loop for like an hour. No issues at all. Furthermore, I activated 4 PP and 1 VP, so the card obtained 9800 points in 3d mark03 (originally is 12 PP and 5 VP, and it gets 9000 points).

So, thank you all for sharing this info, now I have a resurrected card. Hopefully it will work for some time.

I used 3300uF, 6.6V, 105°C cap.

kind regards
11-17-2006, 07:54 AM
SikaRippa

Quote:

Originally Posted by ya_master

hey guys. still kicking? :cool:

Sure :p:

Quote:

after i found my spamfilter messing with my email notifications today i want to give another feedback.

my gainward 6800LE is still running in my little sister's computer and it's just doing fine. :)
still at 12 / 6 and 440 / 850 without any errors or problems.
(vgpu at 1.3v with zalman vf 700-cu at 12v)

after i soldered the cap for a second time some months ago the card was almost bs free. but she wasn't able to play fifa wm 2006 for example. after some time it likely gave a bs so it was no big fun for her.

then i tried to 'upgrade' the old 350w noname psu to a (used) 400w psu from levicom and things got really fu*ked up. :mad: :mad: :mad:
she couldn't play most of her games because there were bs after just some minutes or even seconds. even games that ran fine without capmod just went black then! so much for that. thanks levicom. better keep your sh*t next time!

now she has got a quite nice enermax liberty 400w and nothing seems to bring this gfx card down now. no problems so far. runs like new born. should work till agp is totally finished. ;)

Quite a story.. but nice you could solve the problem! I am sure there was something badly wrong with that levicom. A solid explanation could be a little lower (or unstable) 5 V supply voltage line. That has A HUGE effect in this case (BS-card), even if it would work just fine with a NORMAL hardware.

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page