Vista Ultimate 64 with RT 3.15
when you close RT it returns RealTemp Has Stopped Working error :(
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Vista Ultimate 64 with RT 3.15
when you close RT it returns RealTemp Has Stopped Working error :(
I dunno. I've tried to closed it from tray or from that X button and works flawless. Launched from shortcut or direct exe from folder, no problems whatsoever. :shrug:
Vista64 Ultimate SP1, all updates.
Sorry Kevin I can't help you with this. :(
A direct Tc measurement experiment on a G0 Q6600.
The Fluke 179 and the thermocouple.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237054474
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237054555
Tests to check for accuracy. Ice/water and boiling water. Elevation < 30m. Seems pretty accurate.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237054653
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237054853
The thermocouple leads are way too large for the installation per Intel. http://download.intel.com/design/pro...nex/315594.pdf, pp78-96.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237055295
Drilled a hole through the center of a stock HS for the sensor insertion (thank you rge for the idea) and a hole on the top center of the CPU IHS deep enough so the tip of the sensor can be positioned below the top surface of the IHS as indicated by Intel.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237057796
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237058316
CPU installed.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237058357
HS installed with a drill bit used to maintain the alignment of the holes, then the sensor, and then the fan.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237058538
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237058780
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237058803
Firing the rig up at 400x8!
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237059495
Temperatures at idle. I am running Everest v5 mainly to monitor the mobo CPU thermal diode temperatures, reported in Everest as the “CPU temperature.” The Real Temp with 100 Tjmax setting and calibrated per unclewebb/rge's instructions will keep the tab on the CPU core temperatures.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237060172
Temps running HCI Design Memtest.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237060401
2 instances of the HCI Design Memtest.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237060635
Running 3 and 4 instances of the HCI Design Memtest did not yield any further temperature increases, so moving on to Prime at large FFT, non in-place custom test.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237060987
Prime small FFT’s.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237061047
Then the IBT.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237061103
Vcore increased to elevate the temperatures.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237062963
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237063022
PROCHOT# in action.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237063149
Vatos_locos: I might have to try going back to the previous WinRing0 version.
burebista is using Vista x64 without any issues so I'll try a few different combos to see if I can re-create this error and find out what's going on.
pyongmu: Thanks for your testing. It's interesting that in your final picture when your CPU was thermal throttling that it was showing a TCase reading of 71.7C which is about equal to the 71C TCase rating for the Q6600 - G0. The Intel theory is that if you keep your maximum TCase temperature at or below the rated TCase temperature then you shouldn't have to worry about your processor throttling and that last picture shows that.
Yes, that basically is my conclusion of my experiment.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...lTempBeta2.zip
About the time this Illegal Operation closing bug arrived is also when I switched to the new WinRing0 x64 library. I don't think the two problems are related but just to try I switched back to the previous WinRing0 library for RealTemp 3.16.
pyongmu: Did you see anything interesting or unusual during your testing. Linpack testing seems to create one of the largest gradients between Tcase and core temperature. Overall your results seem similar to what rge found during his testing.
Log Name: ApplicationQuote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
Source: SideBySide
Date: 14.3.2009 22:42:34
Event ID: 33
Task Category: None
Level: Error
Keywords: Classic
User: N/A
Computer: SoLoR
Description:
Activation context generation failed for "D:\System Tools\RealTempBeta_3.16\RealTemp.exe". Dependent Assembly Microsoft.VC90.MFC,processorArchitecture="x86",pub licKeyToken="1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b",type="win32",versio n="9.0.21022.8" could not be found. Please use sxstrace.exe for detailed diagnosis.
and it doesnt want to start, but i guess it doesnt matter, since you probably wll go back to new library anyway.
edit: this is on win7 x64 build 7057 and no i dont get any close bug with old versions, just feel compelled to try every new beta version of every software im using ;)
SoLoR: Just curious. After you did the download did you unzip the folder and try to run that new folder from your Desktop?
That's what I like to hear. :up:Quote:
just feel compelled to try every new beta version of every software im using
no, i have folder "System Tools" on non windows partition and i put all this mini programs there, i just renamed it so version is obvious from folder name. Also only account im using is built in "Administrator" account.Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
Hey Unclewebb,,my realtemp 3.15 or 3.16 won't start, it gives me an error to reinstall. 3.14 works A-OK though. Thanks for all your Hard work as well.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
This new compiler is all new to me so while I learn about that and how to distribute files correctly you can try 3.17. It has the MFC stuff linked into it and should at least start-up OK. Then I can get back to fixing the other problem. :)
Thanks a Bunch Kevin.
Does that mean 3.17 finally worked? I hope so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bandit_44
3.17 worked on my windows 7 64 bit. 3.16 I got same start error as Bandit listed above.
Pyongmu, nice job on testing Q6600. My core 2 duo had nearly same 15C gradient using prime, and 25+C gradient using linpack...interesting to see quad do nearly the same. Also your data shows how futile it is to use software to measure tcase (cpu temp) when the sensor is located in the wrong location, ie between cores instead of in the IHS. Most bioses calibrate the cpu sensor about 10C cooler than its true location temp, so it can approximate IHS temp at moderate load (despite being in core substrate). Which means it will read 5-6C too low at idle as your testing shows, near accurate with 10-12C gradient loads (just few C off with moderate loads), and read still way to high with linpack type loads that create 25-27C gradients (since calibrated for ~10-15C load gradients).
Yes sir it worked perfectly. Sorry i didn't post that in the previous post but company walked in about the time i sat down to try it. Thanks Again.
It took all day but I finally figured out what I was doing wrong before. I left out a manifest file or two.
I'm just installing the updated SDK so there might be a 3.18 before bedtime. ;)
3.17 and 3.18 are about the same but some people like burebista prefer to use the MFC library as shared.
small RealTemp + big bloated MFC library or big RealTemp with embedded library = pretty much the same damn thing for most users but burebista claims small RealTemp is quicker starting up so I won't argue.
pyongmu: I'll try to include a link to your testing in the docs when I update them. Us Xtreme types like seeing stuff like that. :up:
Well I know you've heard this a 1000 times,,but Realtemp Rocks and so do you for contributing such a Helpful and Important App! Thanks Again for all you do for us Xtreme guys!
I really like it uncle you're a genius! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
thank you very much uncle for the hard work & for the djsub edition! :D :up:
god bless & more power so you can always give us the latest & the best temp monitoring program for the proc & gpu. :worship:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...lTempBeta2.zip
The final version of the night. Get it before I wake up and change it one more time.
It includes the correct manifest files and MFC dll files and other baggage that makes Visual Studio 2008 so great. ;)
I tested it on Win 7 x64, Vista x86 and XP x86. Does it work on your computer? If you are using Vista x64 does RT3.17 or RT3.18 shut down without an error?
Your welcome Bandit_44. The best thing about RealTemp are all of the XS users that have helped out with this project. 24/7 there's always someone willing to check out the latest version and give me some feedback on what I did right or what I screwed up. It's good to be part of the community here.
I knew there would be at least one happy user with the latest version. Thanks for your suggestions. It looks great.Quote:
thank you very much uncle for the hard work & for the djsub edition! :up::
v3.18 - error "Realtemp has stopped working" still exists in vista x64.
3.18 is OK here. Opening fast, closing without errors.
all users of realtemp will be happy about it not just me :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
take a look at this. a match made in heaven :D :up:
http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/248...deinheaven.png
still getting closing error with 3.18
Uncle, I guess this will make you very happy :D Thanks to your support I noticed that I had problems with HAL. Fixed and no new OS install :up:
3.18 works normaly for me.
3.18 is working flawlessly on i7 Vista x64 SP1.
3.18 works fine on my windows 7 64 bit.
My wife has vista 64 bit sp1 on her laptop. 3.17 works fine, closes fine. 3.18 works, but it does give the error when you shut it down of realtemp encountered a problem and must be shut down...as if windows is reporting a crash stop instead of acknowledging that the user shut the program down.
Getting the same shut down error message that others are getting w/3.18. Running Vista 64 sp1.
My results were quite similar to rge's and that was may expectations. My goal was to gather enough data to come up with a relatively accurate chat showing the temperature relationships. And here it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237130034
So far this shutdown issue seems to only happen to some Vista x64 users.
If RT3.18 doesn't work for you then can you try RT3.17?
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
Both programs are the same. They just link to the MFC library differently.
A new day and a few minor bugs to fix. At least it looks nice.
Hi Uncle version 3.18 is A1 here and it looks very nice! My Domino shows me at 52 degree's all out and 33 idle.Man I love this program,,Thanks once again!
v3.17 works fine in vista x64, no shutdown error :)
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
This version fixes one bug with trying to select calibration factors that got introduced when switching to VS 2008.
The MFC library is included within RealTemp.exe which seems to cause less hassles with Vista x64.
It took a while but I think I've finally got all these bugs figured out.
I could not help but notice how the Tc plot is very close to being linear in my graph above, particularly above 60 degrees.
That being the case, it may be possible to predict the Tcase using the DTS based temperatures.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237142152
This is how the formula stacks up next to the measured numbers. Not too bad.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237142358
3.19 fixes the closing error for me :up:
3.19 works on wifes vista 64 sp1 and on my wind 7 64 bit.
A couple more quick tests: with the fan turned off and with a Delta FFB1212EHE blowing full blast.
No fan
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237161427
Stock fan blowing at max (from the previous test)
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237161586
The Delta FFB1212EHE (4000RPM/190CFM) over the HS. Not the best fit, I must admit, but I am certain it's blowing more air through the HS than the stock fan.
I have forgotten how loud this fan is, and why I almost never use it. 30 minutes after shutting it down, my ears are still ringing.
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237162469
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/g...g?t=1237162521
It appears the Tj to Tc temperature gradient is dependent on the effectiveness of the CPU cooling. This being the case, the max Tc figures in Intel documentations must apply only when using the stock HSF.
Yep, the gradient from tcase to tjunction is dependent on thermal char. (cooling C/W) and load (TDP), and also on the loading program (since each different program may stress a different component of the cpu more like DTLB, L1, etc, not to mention different sensors in different areas. Intel formula in pic. Intel states that the gradient at max load from Tmax specs to tcase is defined under stock max load TDP with certain loading program, stock cooling (C/W) ...but this relationship will vary some cpu to cpu, etc.
btw...graph in post 3429 perfectly illustrates why tcase (cpu temp) cant be calibrated for both idle and load accuracy.
pyongmu: I'm not sure if you've seen this before but it's an interesting linear formula from the Q6600 datasheet.
Intel Q6600 Datasheet
http://download.intel.com/design/pro...s/31559205.pdf
This graph is the thermal profile for a Q6600 G0:
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/805...malprofile.png
I think this information is targeted at system builders to help them select and design heatsinks and case fans. It shows the maximum Tcase temperature at a given wattage.
The Q6600 G0 has a TDP of 95 watts and when you plug that number into the formula you get the maximum recommended Tcase temperature of 71C.
When you run Linpack on all 4 cores while overclocking and over volting, you are going beyond the 95 watt TDP thermal design power number.
Here's how my Q6600 looks running LinX. At 3000 MHz and 1.40 volts the difference in power consumption at the wall was 145 watts (295 vs 150).
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/5113/linx.png
Maybe 75% or 80% of that number, based on power supply efficiency, would be a reasonable estimation of CPU power consumption plus a few watts for what it consumes at idle.
With core 0 always at full load and the other 3 oscillating from full load to idle, I don't recommend using LinX when comparing the temps of each core.
A graph of power consumption vs core temperature and Tcase temperature would be interesting. You could use Prime95 Small FFTs for a fairly consistent load and then use the RealTemp clock modulation feature to adjust the load. RealTemp is the perfect program for people with too much time on their hands. :) The Kill-A-Watt meter I use is a ~$15 EBay special.
Just ordered a Kill-A-Watt meter :D.
When your new toy arrives remember to come back here with some CPU power vs temperature graphs. :up:
rge and I like seeing stuff like that.
Any one having issues with Version 3.00 closing/shutting down
after just a few minutes with Win7,s newest build 7057?
I open it and it shows in my task bar then browse the web or what ever
then see its shut down.
Open it again and after less than 5 minutes its been closed out.
No errors or anything.
I am running the 64 bit beta version of W7 build 7057.
It didnt do this with the standard 7000 version.
sirheck: If you open up the Task Manager is RealTemp still running? I know the icons can hide depending on how Windows 7 is set up.
I didn't have any issues with Win 7 version 7000 but haven't tried 7057 yet. You can also try the latest beta to see if that makes any difference.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
I switched over to Visual Studio 2008 for RealTemp 3.19 which might have better compatibility with the newer operating systems that are out there and coming out. It seems like an odd problem.
Maybe it's a conspiracy. Intel and Microsoft might have got together to make sure no one knows what temperature their CPU is running at. :D
Ok i,ll give the newest one a try.
And no i never checked task manager, i figured W7 would give the ole (this program is already in use/running) notice, but hey it is a beta.:)
Edit; Ok i checked the task manager and yes i had multiple realtemps running.
The newest 3.19 does the same thing.
Im going to try setting/changing the affinity for it, and see how that goes.
Turn on the task bar option in RealTemp so you can see if it's running or not. There's no code in RealTemp to prevent a person from running multiple copies of it. That's either a feature or a bug depending on how you look at it. I like being able to run 4 instances of RealTemp so I can do 4 rounds of XS Bench and load up some cores.
Does RealTemp pop up on your screen when you first start it? If you look at it for 5 minutes does it just disappear? I can't quite figure out what's going on.
That should screw it up. :)Quote:
Im going to try setting/changing the affinity for it, and see how that goes.
Edit: I had a thought last night. I was dumb enough to complain to Microsoft during Windows 7 beta testing that they've screwed up the icon ordering in the system tray. Maybe their fix was to make RealTemp and the icons disappear so no one notices that they're not in the correct order anymore. :D
SmartFan is another program that disappears magically from system tray on Seven.Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
Does Microsoft hate temp monitoring programs? :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
DUH! I went into the RealTemp (settings) and clicked on taskbar and now
it seems to be working fine.:shakes:
*sirheck* Slaps himself.
Keep pushing unclewebb.. Awesome work :up:
http://pce.hostili.com/images/untitledn7sf.jpg
:D
http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/6272/notifications.png
In Windows 7 you have to go into Notification Area Icons and either turn on Show icon and notifications or check the "Always show all icons and notifications on the taskbar" box. My task bar is black and my icons are usually white so sometimes the temp numbers go hiding in this utility or when you click on the task bar and try to look for them.
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/3145/hiding.png
Other than the green GPU icon, it's impossible to see them in here because they blend into the program.
That was the other thing i did.:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
@ uncle: what is the latest release? can you give me a stable link where i can always get the latest version?
however i need to know what do the 'clock modulation' feature o the 3.00 version ... :) Thanks ;)
The latest beta is always available here:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
Version 3.00 is the last official version and it is available at TechPowerUp.
http://www.techpowerup.com/realtemp
Clock Modulation is an Intel term. It was designed by Intel to give a user a way to reduce the temperature of their CPU while at full load. When enabled, internally your CPU will do less work and will run cooler at full load.
Here's the official Intel explanation if you're interested:
13.5 THERMAL MONITORING AND PROTECTION
http://download.intel.com/design/pro...als/253668.pdf
If you had a CPU running at 3000 MHz and you set the Clock Modulation to 50% then it would run the CPU at half power or at the equivalent of about a 1500 MHz CPU. The 87.5%, 75%, 62.5%, etc. are Intel approximations. The RealTemp load meter will show you a more accurate % for how hard your CPU is really working when modulated. Run Prime 95 Small FFTs and play around with the Clock Modulation settings.
So far only one user has told me he uses this feature. He had a laptop and when watching a movie he sets it to 87.5% which saves some power and allows his movie to play fine without his laptop burning through his lap.
I thought it might be useful when testing an overclock. If your 3000 MHz CPU runs Prime stable at 4000 MHz most days but seems to crash on hot days, you could try running at 87.5% or 75% to keep the heat down and try to isolate your problem. Technically speaking, it's still running at 4000 MHz but will be ignoring some of the internal clock pulses so it won't be working as hard or creating as much heat internally.
This might also be handy for those that like to fake screen shots. You could run LinX on your Core i7 and CPU-Z could report your super high MHz while Core Temp or RealTemp was reporting a nice and low core temperature. The load meter in RealTemp would show that something isn't quite right but traditional load meters would show your CPU working at 100% even though it is not working that hard internally when Clock Modulation is going on. Here's Prime 95 Small FFTs on all 4 cores. My air cooled Quad runs super cool when fully modulated. :)
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3276/loads.png
You can also try running some Super PI 1M benches at different Clock Mod settings. Performance will definitely take a hit.
Thank you :up:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
One user running XP x64 had trouble with RealTemp starting up so I got rid of the check for thermal sensors which didn't seem to be working properly on his computer. I went back to my previous start-up code which seemed to work.
Other than that, same old stuff. I noticed one user on XS has a new Core 2 Quad processor that isn't being properly detected. I saved a screen shot of it somewhere but I can't remember where the hell I put it at the moment. :) Edit: Found it! radaja on the UTP35 thread has a flaky bios which caused this issue.
If you see any screen shots with the model number missing, post them here so I can have a look.
Pardon me if this has been answered before or if it's a stupid question but what does Real Temp do when the CPU enters PROCHOT? Does Real Temp actually query the register (is it even a register?) or does it just go by the distance to TjMax?
thanks Uncle :)
Uncle, when I exit the latest beta Windows Vista 64 tells me "realtemp has stopped working". Any idea why this is?
What version number is displayed in the About... box of RealTemp?
Version 3.20 RC3 is available here if you don't have it already:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
If RC3 has this issue then I'll try sending you some test versions to see if I can find out exactly what the issue is.
I thought this bug was fixed but with XS down for a couple of weeks, maybe I just didn't hear about it.
Hi uncle :) Thanks for updates, :cool:
test-run RealTemp 3.20 RC3
Vista Home Prem. 32bit/ sp1 - Get this close (error?) message(s) -
1-st(first) popup says : RealTemp stopped working , Windows is checking solution ..
2-nd : 'a problem caused the program to stop working correctly,
windows will close the program and notify .. solutions ... bla , bla
:shrug:
---------
Xp-Pro32bit/ Sp3 - NO Problem :) NO messages :up:
----------
// W7 - Not Tested //
thanks for the update
Here's what makes programming fun. I'm using Vista Ultimate x86 (32 bit) as well as Windows 7 (64 bit) and have never once had an issue closing RealTemp.
i43: Hopefully you have some time to help with finding this bug. I almost had this solved about the time XS went on holidays. When RealTemp closes, it tries to be OS friendly by freeing up memory and resources but it seems to be freeing up something that it shouldn't be in Vista.
I'll try writing a version that goes through the closing procedure step by step to hopefully figure out the exact line of code causing the issue. Ever since I started trying to do things by the book, I've been creating obscure bugs and issues. Writing code randomly off the top of my head seemed to work much better. :)
Realtemp 3.20 RC3 Works fine with XPSP3.
but in Windows 7 Build 7068 it didn't show up. you can only see it in taskbar.
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/8...ghzthorsha.png
thanks for the hardwork uncle! :up: :worship:
Time to plug in my Win 7 drive for some testing.
uncle what's the tjmax for i7 920 D0?
thanks! :)
http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/6730/win7rc3.png
Using Windows 7 (x64) Build 7000, I downloaded RealTemp 3.20 RC3, unzipped it into a new folder and started it up and it popped up in the middle of the screen like it should.
DJSUB: Could you try downloading RC3 again? Either that or go into the RealTemp.ini file and delete the entry for WindowXY. If this value gets screwed up it's possible that RealTemp might disappear somewhere when you open it so it will appear in the Task Bar area and in the System Tray but you won't be able to see it on your screen. This is somewhere between an obscure feature and a RealTemp bug. Let me know if you get this figured out. I don't have Build 7068 to do any testing with.
As for TJMax, that information is stored within the CPU in Core i7 processors and RealTemp or Core Temp should be able to read that value correctly. In the RealTemp Settings Window you should be able to click on Defaults and it will set TJMax to the appropriate default value. All of the C0 CPUs that I've seen are set to TJMax = 100C by Intel but I've seen a couple of D0 CPUs that were TJMax = 92C or 93C. I think those were both ES engineering sample processors though. So far, the retail CPU screen shots I've seen for the new D0, have all been TJMax = 100C. I added some code to RealTemp a while ago so if you switch CPUs, it should automatically check to see if TJMax has changed.
When comparing temperature programs I like to use Prime 95 Small FFTs. It puts a consistent load on the cores so all programs should report pretty much the same thing. If the APIC ID is not sequential in the Settings window then it's possible that RealTemp will report core temperatures in different positions than the competition does but that's a feature, not a bug. :)
Yes it's RC3 Uncle.Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
Hi, I have a similar problem to i43
I'm running Windows 7 7077 x64. RealTemp (3.20 RC3) opens correctly and displays temps. But when exiting, i get a popup "RealTemp has stopped working"
http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/1830/25098907.jpg
Hey Unclewebb !
keep your new RT builds coming :) currently have such equipment, 3 separate machines i have access and ready to test new versions
-1- Quad qx9650 - ( multi boot ) 1) Xp-Pro 32bit (sp3) / 2)Vista Home Premium sp1 32bit / 3)W7-b7000 64bit
-2- Dual E8400 - 1) Xp-Pro 32bit(sp3)
-3- (Dual) T5500 - 1) Vista Home Premium Sp1 32bit /laptop/(fujitsu simens Amilo)
:)
+edit adding /
booted quad from W7 64bit (b7000)
RT 3.20 RC3 - all seems working ok but on close[x] getting same error as PyrO
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/539...rc3test.th.jpg
//direct link: http://img26.imageshack.us/my.php?im...320rc3test.jpg //
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
I think I found the bug that was causing a crash when closing RealTemp.
If you had problems before then try RC4 and see if your problems go away.
RealTemp 3.20 RC4 - seems like all OK ! working :up:
anyway ..so far did not notice any problems on these ...
-1- Quad qx9650 - ( multi boot )
---A) Xp-Pro 32bit (sp3) / (ATI 4870x2 ..ccc9.4
---B)Vista Home Premium sp1 32bit / (ATI 4870x2 ccc9.4)
---C)W7-b7000 64bit / (ATI 4870x2 - default driver
-2- Dual E8400 - 1) Xp-Pro 32bit(sp3) nVidia 9600GT Fw 182.50 xp
-3- (Dual) T5500 - 1) Vista Home Premium Sp1 32bit /laptop/(fujitsu simens Amilo) - (Mobile intel(R) 945 Chipset Family)
-----
CY :)
Thanks for your help testing this i43. I went through RealTemp trying to make it more efficient by freeing up any unused resources. I hate memory leaks.
When using an ATI video card, RealTemp RC3 was freeing up the same block of memory twice, once during initialization and again after clicking on the exit button. In programming, freeing up the same block of memory twice is definitely not a good thing. RC4 should be all better now.
I added a new System Tray menu item so it moves RealTemp up to the upper right corner and out of the way. That's where I like it so it doesn't get in the way when it's not minimized.
exiting works without error now. thank you unclewebb :up:
tested on the sys in sig, using win7 7100 x64
[edit] liking the new option to put the window in the top corner too :)
Just to congratulate you on some kickass software.
And tremendous work keeping it bug free. ;)
thanks for the 3.20 RC4 uncle! :)
it works fine now with 7068 windows 7 :up:
keep up the good work uncle! :worship:
No errors at all with win7100 x64.
ty sir.
Thanks everyone for bringing this issue to my attention. It was a pretty minor bug and easy to fix but I didn't notice it sooner because I've been using an Nvidia card lately. Version 3.20 looks like it's ready to be released next week.
Do you know if Windows 7 Build 7100 still changes the order of the icons in the system tray? In Vista and XP, RealTemp keeps the System Tray icons ordered so it is core 0, core 1, core 2, core 3, GPU but in Windows 7 the order is random. Unfortunately there is nothing I can do to fix this.Quote:
Originally Posted by gymenii
It's reversed, Core1,0. Not that it matters much since I only have 2 cores, but it might be annoying for quads.Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
All works now Uncle :)
Thanks Draxx.
That's a Windows 7 issue. In XP and Vista, when software inserts an icon into the system tray, it always gets inserted at the end of the line to the left of the previous icon. It's easy enough for RealTemp to insert icons in the reverse order so that they show up in the correct numerical order.Quote:
Originally Posted by gymenii
With Windows 7 they changed that. Now when you insert an icon it can randomly end up on the right side or on the left side of the previous icon so there's no easy way to predict or control the final order. Kind of a pain with Quads. Maybe Microsoft will come up with a fix for that in Win 7 SP1 but I doubt it. By then we'll all be using 8 core CPUs and then we'll have a real mess of unorganized icons to look at. :)
3.20 works fine :up:
Could someone explain to me why Realtemp is showing a lower cpu multiplier then what I have? I have 8x set in BIOS and Cpu-z and Everest show that but Realtemp shows 7x I have both C1E and EIST disabled. It doesn't change either when under load w\prime95 small ffts. I'm sorry if this has been explained before I couldn't find the answer in this thread after a bit of searching. I'm running Vista SP1 with a C2Q 9450 and the latest versions of these programs.
RyanH: Can you post a screen shot of CPU-Z and RealTemp while Prime95 Small FFTs is running?
You can upload it to www.imageshack.us and then post a link here.
At idle RealTemp is sometimes different based on settings in your Power Options but at full load they should show the same thing. If they don't then obviously there's a problem that I need to look into.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
Can you also check your multi with this tool:
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
It's designed for Core i7 and is still a work in progress for Core 2 processors but should give me a clue as to what's going on.
Heres the info uncle thanks for the help. I'd also like some help on calibrating my TJMax as you can see my sensor test too. Should I change my idle calibration or raise my TJMax? I've read you believe that the TJMax values could be different on the 2 separate dies on Core2 Quad MCMs but I'm wondering if they could be different on each individual core as well what's your take on that? My core 0/1 are very close across the load spectrum but core 2 and 3 are :shrug: Also is it possible for TJMax or TJTarget to not be a factor of 5 like say 101 or 103 or something? Has Intel ever said anything on the matter? I don't know why the turbo program is showing EIST enabled I just double checked my BIOS still shows EIST and C1E disabled. I'm set to High Performance Power Plan but I haven't changed any of the advanced power settings.
http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/301/mystatsi.th.jpg
The Turbo program reads the EIST (Enhanced Intel Speedstep) bit directly from your CPU and on your board, it's reporting that EIST is still enabled. I know there are a few boards and bios versions that do not turn EIST off correctly.
Could you try double checking EIST by using RMClock 2.30?
Version 2.35 seems to have a bug and doesn't close properly so I prefer:
RMClock 2.30
http://cpu.rightmark.org/download/rm...0_bin_upd1.exe
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/4209/rightmark.png
It can also report your C1E status and will let you toggle that. EIST can only be displayed. When I turn EIST off in my bios, RMClock shows that it really did get turned off.
I don't have any ideas yet why RealTemp is only showing a multiplier of 7.0 while running Prime. I'm definitely interested to find out why though so I'll try to update my Turbo tool by tomorrow to properly support Core 2 CPUs so we can gather some more data.
Can you try using RealTemp 3.20? There's a link to it in my previous post.
I don't think this will fix it but then at least I know we're using the same version.
You've obviously read some of this thread so I guess you've read my opinion about 45nm Core CPUs and their sensors. The bottom line is that TJMax is not a fixed number. The information Intel released last year about TJMax was pretty much useless because they didn't include details like their calibration procedure or how much error is in their TJMax number. Calling it 'X' on their graphs only made me think that the amount of variation is a number larger than their lawyers would let them admit to. The Core i7 sensors are better so most users have given up on this issue.
My best guess at the truth based on what Intel stated last year in their IDF presentations and based on my testing and 101 user screen shots is that TJMax on 45nm Quad CPUs may have a range of 10C. If 100C is their target, I'm not sure if TJMax falls in the range of 90C to 100C or 95C to 105C or maybe 100C to 110C. I believe that this amount of variation can be from one CPU to the next of the same model number and it can also be from one core to the next on the same 45nm Quad CPU. The variation from core to core doesn't have to be an exact multiple of 5.
These sensors have multiple issues and weren't designed or intended to be used to report accurate core temperatures. They were only supposed to be used to control thermal throttling and for that purpose they work fine.
If I find where your 8.0 multi has gone to then I'll try to figure out if your core temps are reasonably accurate. Stay tuned for an updated tool or two. :)
Ok heres an update with the new beta. For some reason I couldn't get the RMclock app to run I get an error message as you can see on the left side. I have it installed in my Program Files (x86) folder as are all my other programs and I'm running in administrator mode so I don't see what the problem is. Am I suppossed to copy any of the .sys or .dll files anywhere or are these programs all self contained I'm talking about Realtemp and iTurbo as well.
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/7932/mystats2g.th.jpg
With RealTemp and i7 Turbo, you can drag the folder where ever you want and it should work.
For RMClock, I'm using Vista 32 bit and didn't have a problem. I think the folder it creates in Program Files can be dragged to your desktop. You could try that in case it's some sort of permission issue.
Maybe I'll try it in Windows 7 x64 tomorrow to see if it works.
I did some testing with my Q6600 and here's what I got.
At idle with EIST and C1E enabled and with the Minimum processor state set to 50%, this CPU idles down and uses a multiplier of 6.0 like Intel intended.
The multiplier can be read from a model specific register (MSR) or it can be calculated using high performance timers within the CPU. The calculated method has a slight amount of error at idle on some CPUs but at full load during testing, it locks on one number and doesn't move. If you are using a Core i7 and the calculated multiplier starts to sag at full load then that is an excellent sign that Turbo mode is starting to cycle on and off.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7610/idlez.png
For the second picture I started Prime95 Small FFTs. The calculated and multiplier read from the MSR were very steady at 9.000.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/2064/primez.png
For the third picture I set the Minimum processor state to 100% and disabled C1E.
EIST was still enabled but on this board at idle, that's enough to get the multiplier steady at 9.0. There is a slight amount of variation in the calculated multi but not much.
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/4313/idle2.png
RyanH: I updated the Turbo tool tonight so it should work OK with Core 2 processors. I didn't see any issues when testing my Q6600.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/Turbo.zip
Maybe try running only a single thread of P95 Small FFTs and run the Turbo tool and see what it says. Hopefully another user with a Q9450 will post a screen shot or two for comparison purposes. RealTemp could be out to lunch but this is the first I've heard of this problem and it seems to work fine on my Quad so I'm not sure what's going on, yet. Have you updated your bios and does your bios support your 45nm Quad CPU?
Replace your RTCore64.sys in RMClock install folder with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by RyanH
Here's a test I use to check how software deals with odd ball multipliers and situations that you don't read about in any book.
A Quad CPU has two Dual Core CPUs inside of it. Using MSR 0x199 you can trick it so that one of the Dual Cores uses one multiplier while the other Dual Core uses a completely different multiplier, even at full load running Prime95.
For my example I set core0 and core 1 to use a 9.0X multi and core2 and core3 to use a 6.0X multi. Right click on CPU-Z and you can get it to read any individual core.
It correctly shows one side of the CPU running at 3000 MHz and the other side at 2000 MHz so RealTemp averages that out and reports 2500 MHz. RealTemp also averages the 9.0 and 6.0 multipliers and displays 7.5.
The average multi read from the MSR is shown as 7.5 and the calculated multi also shows the correct 7.500. Not a lot of tools can handle this situation correctly. Hell, I'm not sure if any tools besides the ones in this screen shot can handle this situation correctly. :D
That's why I'm having a hard time understanding what's going on with your CPU. These tools are usually pretty good. When they display something odd, it's usually because something odd is going on.
http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3096/trickt.png
Thanks for showing up burebista. It's past my bedtime so you can take over trying to figure out what's going on.
Edit: Run 4 instances of CPU-Z and set each instance to monitor a different core. Maybe in your case two cores are running at 8.0 and two cores are running at 6.0 so the overall average really is 7.0. That's all I can think of at the moment. Everest 5.0 can also be used to read the individual cores. I need another clue to this mystery!
Edit: Thanks for the signed driver burebista. RMClock works in Windows 7 x64 after replacing that file.
No problem Kevin. It's just RivaTuner/Precision signed driver. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb
Ok first of all thank you as well burebista I can get my Rmclock to work now and just to clarify I am running Vista 64 bit SP1. Ok first things first, yes uncle you're right it's showing a 6 multiplier on both core 2 and 3 and an 8 multiplier on core 0 and 1 so that's why the Realtemp and turbo are showing a 7 multiplier because it's averaging it out to 7 just like you said. How would I go about changing the multiplier on core 2 and 3 then? In my bios it only shows one FSB and multiplier setting theres no option to change 2 separate cores. No I am not running the latest bios on my motherboard and after looking through the lengthy thread for my motherboard in these forums it's said that the new bios versions have increased 45nm capability among other things because my motherboard was released back in 2007 before the newer penryn 45nm was released. However I did not bother to change it because my OS recognizes all 4 cores and as you can see all these programs are showing 450FSB on all cores including core 2 and 3 and the default multiplier/FSB for this processor is 8/333mhz so obviously the bios is compatible at some level as it raised the FSB on all 4 cores but for some reason opted to have a different multi on core2/3 even though I have it set at 8 in the Bios settings. Is it possible the C1E or EIST is changing this? Another question I have is do most motherboard bios usually let you set different multipliers and FSB for the different dies on Quadcores?
As you can see I don't have a processor power management option in neither my advanced power settings or RMclock so I can't change my minimum processor state and I can't see wether my C1E or EIST is still on according to RMclock. Maybe once I update my bios this option will appear?
Also, I have my Vcore set at 1.3325 in bios but it shows roughly 1.29-1.3 when I boot up and then it goes down again to about 1.26 again once i start prime95. I believe this is attributed to Intel spec Vdrop and Vdroop.
If I do turn off C1E and EIST this is still suppossed to happen correct?
So it appears the best course of action would be to flash my bios to the latest version would you agree with me?
http://img8.imageshack.us/img8/963/mystats3.th.jpg
Edit* I just wanted to add that both the FSB and multipliers for all 4 cores always stayed the same both at idle and while running prime95 small ffts, so core 0/1 were always at 8/450mhz and core 2/3 at 6/450mhz. However the FSB does go up or down .1 to 1mhz regularly but I'm guessing that's normal.
You said you were able to trick your quad into using 2 different multipliers using the MSR tool is there anyway to correct my situation using that tool? I guess it's supossed to be the same multiplier on all the cores at default though.
I have a problem with Real temp 3, after Blue screen of Death (BSOD). Every time when I run Real temp3 I got massage Driver not Loaded Try Run as Administrator. Before the computer crashed it’s working fine. How can I fix that in Vista?:confused:
I thought your first comment would be something like this.
"Thank-you RealTemp for showing me that my computer is borked!"
No bios lets you individually set the multipliers for each core but when a bios is working properly, when you set the multiplier, it gets set equally for all 4 cores. Your present bios has a problem.
If the bios you are using was written before the 45nm Penryn chips even existed then you shouldn't be surprised that it doesn't properly support them. You need to update your bios.
If you enable EIST and C1E in the bios then RMClock and the Power Options might show some more options. EIST and C1E have no effect on your multiplier problem at full load.
The vDrop and vDroop you are seeing is normal. In the thread for my motherboard I was able to find a "pencil mod trick" where you write on some components on your motherboard to slightly change the resistance which reduces or gets rid of this issue. I know it's part of the Intel design and there is a good reason for some vDroop but I don't like it so I fixed it.
You probably didn't see very much FSB fluctuating when using RealTemp. CPU-Z likes showing that random variation but clock generator chips are a lot steadier than that. CrystalCPUID seems to correctly report the FSB too.Quote:
However the FSB does go up or down .1 to 1mhz regularly but I'm guessing that's normal.
Update your bios and if you can't get all 4 cores using the same multiplier then I'll add a line of code to try to fix this problem for you. If you use my MSR Tool then you can examine MSR 0x199. Type 0x199 into the MSR Number box and then click on Read MSR. Core 0 and core 1 will show an 8 in the third last digit and core 2 and core 3 will show a 6 in the third last digit. Go into the Copy To section and click on the Write button that is beside Core 2. Change the third last digit from 6 to 8 and then click on the Write MSR button and all 4 cores should now run at 3600 MHz.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/3/1794507/MSR.zip
If you enter numbers into this tool randomly and randomly click on the Write MSR button then your computer might crash or lock up but after a re-boot everything will be back to normal. Use at your own risk. If you follow my directions exactly, you won't have a problem.
Depending on various settings within Windows and whether you are idle or at full load, MSR 0x199 might change so don't plan to use this as a permanent solution.
k4vz0024: When you re-boot your computer a second time, does RealTemp work properly?
When you have a Blue Screen of Death (BSOD) it can screw up Windows or programs or drivers that programs depend on.
I would try RealTemp 3.20 to see if that makes any difference.
http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
The WinRing0 driver that RealTemp depends on is an open source, third party driver provided by http://openlibsys.org/
RealTemp 3.20 uses an updated version of this driver so maybe that will help.
If the WinRing0 library has a problem you might have to use a program like Autoruns to delete the start up entry for it.
Once that is deleted, re-boot and try reinstalling RealTemp. I've never had this issue before so try the above and see if it works.
If you don't like Autoruns you could try using Regedit and delete this key and then reboot.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Servic es\WinRing0_1_2_0
I notice that, when I re-boot my computer and the system start up, than few minutes I can not run RealTemp and I got ”Driver not Loaded Try Run as Administrator”. However when is the system loaded completely (the hard disk not so busy so much) then some time take than I can run RealTemp and it’s work properly.
The Blue Screen of Death I think not caused by Real Temp
http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6...kscheduler.png
I suggest that you try using the Task Scheduler. It can be used to start any program automatically when you start your computer. You can use it to add a small time delay to give your computer time to boot up before RealTemp starts. That might help.
Here is a good tutorial about adding new tasks to the Task Scheduler:
http://www.vistax64.com/tutorials/13...eate-task.html
The Task Scheduler was introduced in Vista and is available in Windows 7 too.
Create Basic Task... is very easy to understand and to add a new task.
After you create a task you can go back and double click on it and edit the details.
You might also want to try disabling SuperFetch.
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windo...windows-vista/
On a computer with a slow hard drive it can make your computer feel very slow and take a long time to fully boot up and settle down.
Vista has a few more great ideas that can be disabled too.
Where can I find Real Temp 3.20 ?
Thx.
Lol, unclewebb has posted his link several times already.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheungtsw
Anyways, here ya go: http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/3/...alTempBeta.zip
looks like i finally got a cpu with decent temp sensors.there stuck at 27c/29c.
but thats alot better than my last one,they were stuck at 27c/39c.
http://i40.tinypic.com/23w4gp2.jpg
Looks like RT 3.20 works fine on i7. I have to mention again that CPU is under Scythe Ninja 2 fanless yet. Maybe when we'll have here 45°C outdoor I'll put a fan over, but I'm not sure. Yet :D
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/919/rt320i7.jpg
Just tried 3.20 and when running a sensor test it crashes when it tries to quit/shutdown prime95. My whole system just locks up/hangs and I have to hard reset my pc. Anyone else have this problem? (I'm using Prime95 25.9)