6800le 'Black Screen' - The Complete Guide: Identification, modification and reason

too bad. atitool with 16/6 was running fine for 30 minutes but in kotor 2 i get flickering textures while playing. really too bad...but 12/6 isn't bad at all.


i clocked to 445 mhz and ran kotor 2, flatout and a complete run of 3d mark 2003. it didn't clock back to 440.

wow! yeah that is some pretty nasty core speeds, i'm totaly maxed at 360/942 now with the new caps silkarippa sent me. But to get 440 even with 1.3 volts, that chip must have fell off the ultra line and got tossed into the le line. Sounds like a good card for tweaking,wish i had that core :)

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Originally Posted by Firechicken

wow! yeah that is some pretty nasty core speeds, i'm totaly maxed at 360/942 now with the new caps silkarippa sent me. But to get 440 even with 1.3 volts, that chip must have fell off the ultra line and got tossed into the le line. Sounds like a good card for tweaking,wish i had that core :)

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as usual, you are wrong
it didn't falloff the ultra line.. it fell off the limited "extreme edition" line

typically
6800/6800LE = 1.2V (325Mhz)
6800GT = 1.3V (385Mhz)
6800Ultra = 1.4V (400-425Mhz)

Im not sure, but extreme edition was supposed to be 450Mhz?

Firechicken, before I get upset and go cry in the corner, Did you actually measure the Vgpu with multi8meter while running the card? What did you measure? Did the value change under load? Also, how high were you abl to get it on 1.2V?

EDIT: My father upon hearing vague description of my problem immediately blurted out that its a thermal expansion/cold solder problem And lets say if it is... how would I possibly try to find and fix it... check and measure each and every component on the PCB?

i have core at 440mhz on 1.4v, but my is only at 860mhz...even i have 2.2ns chips... that sucks!

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Originally Posted by jlovrek

i have core at 440mhz on 1.4v, but my is only at 860mhz...even i have 2.2ns chips... that sucks!

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Go see my posts regarding memory timings. 95% sure that is the problem.

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Originally Posted by ya_master

things seem to get better.

- new zalman vf 700 arrived today and i mounted it with arctic silver 5 and the ram heatsinks
- i didn't add other heatsinks. the little 2 things in the card don't get too warm and the big silver box from my leadtek card is represented by a thing with open wires in the gainward card of my sister. that one gets really hot and i can't apply a heatsink to it. damn. they should use these boxes in the future... :mad:
- psu voltages seem to be ok. no new one needed i think.
- found out the gpu is running with 1.3v. looks like it's really working on gainward cards.
- removed the old cap i added before and redid the capmod with one of my caps.
- ran 15 games of alpinski :stick: and no blackscreen appeared. could be gone now but i need my sister to do more 'testing'. :D
- card is now running at 440 / 850. 460mhz core gave erros with atitool and so did 870mhz mem. i will leave it at 440 / 850 and everything will be fine. was already flashed to the bios anyway.
- ran atitool for 30 minutes without errors and no BS at 12/6. now trying the same with 16/6. that would be nice if it works at 16/6. my sister's card is getting better than my own. argh! ;)
- markings on the stock caps are ... 470 6E. that's sh*t right?
- the noise from the card only appears while loading screens get faded out. you know? this fade to black / fade to white. that gives some noise. anything else doesn't. but when i enabled the card to run at 16/6 the noise was back and playing all time while unter 3d load. but not as loud as before the capmod.

i think that was all i wanted to mention. :confused:

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Ok... capacitor mods to remove can easily fail if soldering is not properly done or leads are too long or capacitor is not good quality. Since you reported your mod is running now better (?) I think the problem was due to soldering.

The critical number in original capacitor code is the second one "4 3 470 6E" i.e. in that case "3". The point is that cards having "4 3 470 6E" capacitors most likely can not be repaired in long run using added capacitor but capacitors should be changed.

The noise from card is result a result of current consumption VARIATION of the card. So, it is logical to get highest noise when framerate changes rapidly e.g. in the case screen is fading. Enabling extra pipes increases current consumption which of course increase the noise level.

Could you post the specifications of your added capacitor ?

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

EDIT: My father upon hearing vague description of my problem immediately blurted out that its a thermal expansion/cold solder problem And lets say if it is... how would I possibly try to find and fix it... check and measure each and every component on the PCB?

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FYI: I said earlier that I'll check out the temperature sensor diodes. I tested the diode D504 as follows.
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/1...odes9ki.th.jpg

At first I started RivaTuner's temperature meter. I freezed D504 using cold spray while running hard 3-load/idle state. The temperature of the diode during freezing went quite low well below 0 C I think. Despite of freezing the temperature reading had only variation (fluctuation) of 1 degree, so I am quite sure D504 is not used as an ambient temperature sensor of 6800-cards.

soldering of the first cap was really bad. :( maybe that's the reason why it failed to cure the BS.

today everything ran fine afaik. did a 5x lopp of 3d mark 2001 in 16bit, same in 32bit and another 5x loop with 3dmark2003. got 14500 and 10500 points. she's only got a 2500+ and 512mb memory so the score isn't as high as you would expect.
that sure was a hard ride for the card.

now i got this sort of cap running on my card and the one of my sister:
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/3262/cap1ru.jpg

i'm gonna let her play over the weekend and if nothing happens in about one week the BS should be gone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ya_master

soldering of the first cap was really bad. :( maybe that's the reason why it failed to cure the BS.

today everything ran fine afaik. did a 5x lopp of 3d mark 2001 in 16bit, same in 32bit and another 5x loop with 3dmark2003. got 14500 and 10500 points. she's only got a 2500+ and 512mb memory so the score isn't as high as you would expect.
that sure was a hard ride for the card.

now i got this sort of cap running on my card and the one of my sister:
http://img346.imageshack.us/img346/3262/cap1ru.jpg

i'm gonna let her play over the weekend and if nothing happens in about one week the BS should be gone.

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Is the cap specified in the picture, what you replaced the original memory voltage capacitors with (ie the 470uF ones)?
I'm confusedbecause it says 3.3uF and quitea high 58ohm ESR.

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

Is the cap specified in the picture, what you replaced the original memory voltage capacitors with (ie the 470uF ones)?
I'm confusedbecause it says 3.3uF and quitea high 58ohm ESR.

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it's looking really good. no BS today and yesterday. :toast:

i didn't replace the original ones. i just added this new cap to TP10 and TP9.
and the specs are correct. you just need to read them right. ;)
3300uF and 0.058ohm @ 20°C

so far it seems to do a good job. i hope it lasts this time.


forgot:
the original caps are marked 43 470 6E

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

Go see my posts regarding memory timings. 95% sure that is the problem.

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can you write me a link to that post... hm, i have all timings that i have found on net and nothing helps.... i can't pass 900mhz... maybe 870...

Jlovrek here is one of the posts he put about some mem timmings about two or three pages back (depending on your pref's for forum) one helpfull place to start out is with the "tRCDRD=6 and tRP=6." he has shown. that should get you started untill he can reply. MD. P.S. thanks for showing your timmings Deimos, it was helpfull for me to tinker with your timming sets to get mine fine tuned:clap:

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

I certainly hope thats with LOD and high performance in the driver. After about 380-400, my 6800 becomes very bandwidth limited, and thats with memory running at 900, 950, or even 972 (after voltmod). Go figure. With core only at 375, the GT runs memory at 1000, and Ultra with core at 400/425, memory at 1200.

for everybody who is only getting 800's with 2.2ns Hynix
get NIBITOR 2.8 from mkvtech
you can test timings in windows without flashing!!
for 900+, I found I MUST have tRCDRD=6 and tRP=6.

Intructions:
1. Tools-Read BIOS- Select Device-OK
2. Tools-Read BIOS- Read into NIBITOR- OK
3. Go to Timings tab, and click autoselect to change to proper timingset- ok
4. click detail timings, and you will see your timings.. make changes as desired. When you click ok, you will notice, that the Timing0, Timing1, Timing3 have changed. Write these down!
5. Back at the Timings tab, Click test timings, get timings, and insert the values you wrote down, click set timings, and go run atitool artifact tester (highly recommended) or some other benchmark.

EX:
Timing0: 060C1512
Timing1: 05010307
Timing2: 00240306

correspnd to:
tRC=18
tRFC=21
tRAS=12
tRP= 6
tRCDRD=6
tRCDWR=3
tRRD=4

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by ya_master

it's looking really good. no BS today and yesterday. :toast:

i didn't replace the original ones. i just added this new cap to TP10 and TP9.
and the specs are correct. you just need to read them right. ;)
3300uF and 0.058ohm @ 20°C

so far it seems to do a good job. i hope it lasts this time.


forgot:
the original caps are marked 43 470 6E

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Capacitor specs seem to be just perfect ! Problems in the first place must to due to bad soldering.

GW-card + "43 470 6E" capacitors has been much better combination than MSI-version. In considered the main reason has to be related to the feedback path of the switching regulator (see document for details). This causes some cards working better even if the capacitor were the same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firechicken

Jlovrek here is one of the posts he put about some mem timmings about two or three pages back (depending on your pref's for forum) one helpfull place to start out is with the "tRCDRD=6 and tRP=6." he has shown. that should get you started untill he can reply. MD. P.S. thanks for showing your timmings Deimos, it was helpfull for me to tinker with your timming sets to get mine fine tuned:clap:

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why dont you post the timings you are having problems with so I can perhaps investigate what may be causing the problem.

BTW, a while back I tried working on interesting problem:
I still haven't been able to find or figure out how to change CAS latency for the timings. Its in a different register, and there is a special way for the BIOS to program the memory register to set it, but not sure how to even begin. All the tools I've seen focus on changing the registers on the GPU, which although contain many timings, I dont think contain CAS (would probably require reboot)

PS: also measure the voltage going into those stubborn Hynix bad-boys of yours. Idle as well as load, noting any fluctuations.

6 months on and ultimate mod still running fine :).

I think everone should say a big thank you to sika :)

Thank You :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ***Deimos***

why dont you post the timings you are having problems with so I can perhaps investigate what may be causing the problem.

BTW, a while back I tried working on interesting problem:
I still haven't been able to find or figure out how to change CAS latency for the timings. Its in a different register, and there is a special way for the BIOS to program the memory register to set it, but not sure how to even begin. All the tools I've seen focus on changing the registers on the GPU, which although contain many timings, I dont think contain CAS (would probably require reboot)

PS: also measure the voltage going into those stubborn Hynix bad-boys of yours. Idle as well as load, noting any fluctuations.

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i don't have multimeter so i can't measured voltage...:((( well, i have tried all memory timings, from original to yours, and the highest i stable was 870mhz... now i'm using
060A150A
05010306
00240306
nothing helps... bad thing is that before ultimate mod i have soldered resistor between t9 and t10, but i have problems so i must cut them off and now i can't just put another one in cause holes are soldered... resistor was 3300...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

6 months on and ultimate mod still running fine :).

I think everone should say a big thank you to sika :)

Thank You :)

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Nice the mod (=changing capacitors) really gives an ULTIMATE solution

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Quote:

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I think everone should say a big thank you to sika :)

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:toast: It has been pleasure/satisfying to see how usefull this thread has been for several 'BS-users'. I wonder how many have seen these guides/hints, since many (most?) never register forums and give comments afterwards. At least this thread has been viewed almost 50000 times (!!), and to be honest I have not clicked this thread more than 10000 times :D

In addition to this thread I found with little googling translated miniversions of BS-guide, and a FULL version in Russian language (!!!). Therefore, I assume many users have found guides/hints even never visited this forum.

more than one week passed since i did the mod and still no blackscreen and the card is going and at large.

should be working for the next years. that's what i call german engineering. :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ya_master

more than one week passed since i did the mod and still no blackscreen and the card is going and at large.

should be working for the next years. that's what i call german engineering. :cool:

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Yep, "German engineering quality" is well known worldwide. At least in Finland we have a quite old but good phrase "There is NO limits what a German is able to invent".

Still another way to make capacitor modification successfully tested !!!

The major problem with the 'ultimate capacitor modification' is (or has been..) to obtain proper capacitors. I have been thinking how to solve this problem and found a nice solution :D Look foto below:

http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/3...06v29jl.th.jpg

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/123...06v33gw.th.jpg

.. it is 'an old school' Intel motherboard, socket 8. There are several purple OS-con capacitors values of 6.3 V /330 uF. Since those capacitors are SUPER when new I think that those could still be good enough as replacement capacitors... I ripped those capacitors off and measured capacitance/leakage/ESR and found those are still several times better than 'green bad capacitors ripped off from BS-card'. I think that the ESR value is far more important than capacitance => having 2-3 Os-con capacitors instead of original should make card working.

A Finnish friend contacted me to get replacement capacitors, but my supply had run off. I suggested him to test these capacitors, and he made mod using these Os-con's (Big Credits to 'Jake' :toast:). He soldered three capacitors (2 as replacement, 1 between TP's) see fotos below:

http://img62.imageshack.us/img62/581...ettu2wx.th.jpg

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4...nkka7dy.th.jpg

The result: Before a completely 'BS' GW6800le card (with "4 3 470 6E" capacitors) started to work just fine !

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So, if somebody insists do perform 'Ultimate capacitor modification' and find it too difficult to find decent capacitors, try to look for old Mobos !! However, please note:

- Desolder carefully !
- Be sure you have the same kind of capacitors (Os-con, specifications equal or better)
- Try to test/characterize capacitors somehow i.e. those are not ruined. For instance measure capacitance/ resistance (leakage) or test how long capacitor remains charged (measure resistance and after that check voltage, should remain constant/high level for moderate period)

Hello everybody,
after writing a thread in early February this year, I haven't been often on this homepage. But now, coming bak from Japan I finally can write a few more infos about my MSI 6800LE (second fan design):
-It was a Ebay buy, so I didn't know when BS started.
-At my home, it started BS from the beginning
-green capacitors labeled 46 470 6E
-after buying a J.d 16v3300µF and putting it between TP1 und 9 (since yesterday TP9 and 10) everything works still fine at clock memory 700Mhz
- Overclocking memory causes BS again (also with extra capacitor)

Now I'm wondering, if I should sell my card (I have another MSI 6200 128bit in the case) because of buying a new system with PciE in the next months or solviing the problem first and then selling the card!:confused:

Plaese give my advice,
Nonnenteufel

P.S.: Still not knowing where to find good capacitors. Perhaps somebody can send my some, if I'm sending a letter with money in it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nonnenteufel

Hello everybody,
after writing a thread in early February this year, I haven't been often on this homepage. But now, coming bak from Japan I finally can write a few more infos about my MSI 6800LE (second fan design):
-It was a Ebay buy, so I didn't know when BS started.
-At my home, it started BS from the beginning
-green capacitors labeled 46 470 6E
-after buying a J.d 16v3300µF and putting it between TP1 und 9 (since yesterday TP9 and 10) everything works still fine at clock memory 700Mhz
- Overclocking memory causes BS again (also with extra capacitor)

Now I'm wondering, if I should sell my card (I have another MSI 6200 128bit in the case) because of buying a new system with PciE in the next months or solviing the problem first and then selling the card!:confused:

Plaese give my advice,
Nonnenteufel

P.S.: Still not knowing where to find good capacitors. Perhaps somebody can send my some, if I'm sending a letter with money in it?

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Hi,

I remember your story, hope you had nice time in 'Nippon' ;)

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MSI-card have been hard to modify i.e. adding extra capacitor (usually) do not help too much - as your case also showed (poor OC-capability). Moreover, the effect of the added capacitor may get worse afterwards -> card will propably give BS again even at stock frequencies :(

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I do not have any PERFECT replacement capacitors left, but I still have almost ideal SVP-capacitors (see my latest post...). If you are interested to get those just send a PM... (or get those from old MOBO if you find one having exactly similar capacitors)

nice thread "!! verry fine !!
i love that
and i thought a long time how we can clear the problem ;)
and i have a question "!
when u made the mod u can gett higher clocks ? ore this capacitator mod is only for a silent geforcecard? (my 6800 had this problems and my new 7800gs 2)

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Originally Posted by lukiluke

nice thread "!! verry fine !!
i love that
and i thought a long time how we can clear the problem ;)
and i have a question "!
when u made the mod u can gett higher clocks ? ore this capacitator mod is only for a silent geforcecard? (my 6800 had this problems and my new 7800gs 2)

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Hi,

Mods presented here are MAINLY to overcome 'black screen' feature. Since the maximum memory clock frequency of these cards (GF6800le) is usually limited by 'black screen' (=even when having good capacitors BS appears more easily than artefacts etc.), so the mod can be used to increase memory clock frequency. BUT if your max frequency is already high, say ~ 900 MHz, I think that any capacitor mod do not help too much.

What brand your 6800-card is (or 6800le ) ?

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What kind of problem you had with 7800GS ? I wonder (some of) those cards have (had) severe problems, due to memory problems (???)

SikkaRippa.. been a long time.
I pretty much gave up on overclocking the card at all. IE. Stock was 325/750. Before I ran hundreds of hours pretty successfully at 390/900, and was trying to get 425/950 stable (ie, it would do 1 run or sometimes 4 runs of 3dMark then freeze).

So, the last couple months, I've been running 325/700 to completely avoid any problems whatsoever. Last week I'm running BF2 and its pretty hot outside (35C), and some flicker, flashing, and an hour latter, the game is stuck with audio repeating. CTRL-ALT-DEL doesn't work.. nothing. Had to do hard reboot.

Meh, must be a fluke,right? Today, maybe 15C at night, I'm playing BF2 again (this time with even lower graphics settings), and there it is again! After about 2 hrs, the game completely freezes, sound is looping, and requires hard reboot. what the hell!!??

If you recall, last time I searched around my city for electronics store with SMD capacitors to do ultra replacement. They didn't even have any low-ESR at all (ie <30 mOhm). If you have any could you send me some?

This 6800 of mine is driving me absolutely crazy.

deimos47ca@yahoo.com