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its going to have to run damn good on ati stuff if they are planning on selling it for the 360 as a huge development engine for everyone to use.
i dont think nvidia could pay them enough to make thier engine run bad on ati stuff.
edit - whats vtf btw?
oh, and i think the lack of an official PE is great, let the card manufacturers do the binning this time.
Hummm I have run all the Epic games since the beginning and only on ati cards and I had no issues at all...not only their games but their game editors to since the first unreal...and making maps with them all since then...
And Nvidia is "in bed" with Epic since UT 2003...?
Uh, Ok. :rolleyes:
Where's all the supply of the G70 512? Is Nvidia stockpiling them for all the expected failures in the field? :p:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsama
NVidia supplies 100% of Epic Megagames hardware. They do this in exchange for epic to optimize their games for NVidia cards. A rather fair deal if you ask me, "we supply you with the resources, you put our cards strengths to good use".Quote:
Originally Posted by softpain
Alot of people cry foul on game developers sponsored by one company or another, but if you ask me it's a good thing. Spend the money gotten BY US so that our purchase choice becomes more valuable. It's not just putting your name on a box these days, since the end of the GeforceFX days generally whoever's name is on the box is who's hardware the software runs better on.
The reason generally NVidia has more games "sponsored" by them is because they're alot more willing to throw down money on the games/hardware than ATi is. Look how much money NVidia has put into getting SM3 off the ground, and then once those games popped up in mass is when ATi pushed their card, which is ATi's general tactic. Let NVidia spend the money, then ATi takes advantage of what hits big, and laughs about what flops.
Atleast it's not like the UT'99 days though, where the game needed all those different renderer modes to be compatible. DX, OpenGL, Glide, Chrome(IIRC that's what S3 called their renderer), and like 3 other ones were all used depending on your videocard, some giving a much different image than the others. Now every card runs the same one!
It's called a memory shortage. Same thing that held back the NV40/R420 high end parts upon release, and the same thing that's caused so many other videocards to take forever to show up in number. Samsung can only produce so much ram you know, and with no one else being big in the GDDR memory game it's samsung or nobody. They have the cores, it's the ram that's holding them back. Besides, they don't need that many of them as next quarter is another videocard refresh! Much like how ATi's last orders for the X1800XT are for *THIS MONTH*.Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
Don't flamebait, it's not welcome here.
Dil, practice what you preach dude. The search function on here works extremely well and if anyone is a flamebaiter it's you. Nvidia, this, Nvidia that and the anti ATI position is clear.
As for the memory shortage :rolleyes: please, it's not like they need to make millions of cards. Only a few thousand 512s have been built. The 512 is a desparate attempt for Nvidia to try and hold the crown, plain and simple.
As for other vendors of graphics ram, Infineon is a big player as is Hynix. Samsung isn't the only player in town.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
I never quite understood why people said the shortage of X800XT PE's last year was due to memory, it obviously wasn't, because there were plenty of X800Pro's around with the same 1.6ns memory, on the Vivo versions, remember it like yesterday myself.:)
Found this at B3D.
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix....ventID=1171470Quote:
Interesting comments about R580 from Rich Heye (VP desktop business unit) at the recent Credit Suisse First Boston Technology conference (12 min 30 sec mark). Confirmed the improved design vs. R520 with substantially higher performance. Currently sampling to partners and OEMs (where they are bullish about spring design wins) and first production wafers now coming out of TSMC with volume shipments slated for Q1/06.
You don't pay attention, do you?...Quote:
Originally Posted by taurus_sel
Run a search for what I said about the R600, you'll find out VERY quickly I'm not anti-ati, I'm pro-performance. Company produces best part, I grow a preference towards that company. Either way, this isn't about that, so don't go down that road.
The memory shortage is real...
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=27942
The chips haven't even been available for 2 months yet, OF COURSE THEY'RE ON SHORT SUPPLY! That's what happens when you use bleeding edge components. You can definitely expect the same thing to happen next year when NVidia and ATi release their new parts, since I'm positive both will go for the fastest ram available to them. It's a common occurance in the videocard world, this isn't the first or last time it'll happen. :fact:Quote:
Nvidia's problem right now is that demand exceeds supply by a mile. In case you didn't know, the main problem is getting enough 144-pin 1.1ns Samsung GDDR-3 memory chips - those chips aren't exactly in mass production, and the chips had the status of only "sampling" not a long time ago. Samsung massively produces 1.2ns and 1.26ns GDDR3 memory chips, as tens of thousands of 7800GTX and X1800XL/XT can witness, but 1.1ns is in rather short supply, consumed entirely by nVIDIA's 7800GTX 512MB baby.
As for you saying hynix and infineon, you do know that samsung is the only company with 1.1ns GDDR3, right? Take a look at hynix and infineon and you'll see I'm correct. You want 1.1ns, you have to go thru samsung, that's just the way it works. That's why I said samsung is the only big player right now, no one else has gone past 1.26ns...
ATi knew NVidia was going to release a higher clocked 7800gtx, if you read the first page of this thread(note I started this thread), you'll see Dave from ATi specifically told shareholders NVidia could do this and take the win. It wasn't just to take the performance crown, it was planned from beginning to end. The entire point was to force ATi to release a new card, and lose a ton of money by having to really shorten the lifespan of the x1800xt. I'd say they executed it rather well, considering now we are told to expect the R580 to be shown Q1, which will end up with NVidia dropping yet another card on it. Competition is great, isn't it?
Got anything else to say, or are we done here?
Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
Ya, or we can just scrap it out over the internet! :lsfight:
;)
Memoy shortage is also the reason for the price of the 512MB GTX. 512MB of 1.1ns ram is the reason the GTX is so much more expensive than the X1800XT.Quote:
It's called a memory shortage. Same thing that held back the NV40/R420 high end parts upon release, and the same thing that's caused so many other videocards to take forever to show up in number. Samsung can only produce so much ram you know, and with no one else being big in the GDDR memory game it's samsung or nobody. They have the cores, it's the ram that's holding them back. Besides, they don't need that many of them as next quarter is another videocard refresh! Much like how ATi's last orders for the X1800XT are for *THIS MONTH*.
Its surprisingly also the reason ATI's X1600 is priced so high. THe X1600 core (its the same for either XT or PRO) is very cheap to make for ATI. There are X1600PROs with DDR1 for ~$130 whereas a card w/ the same core and 256MB of 1.4ns GDDR3 is priced at ~$180 to $210.
Perkam
2 posts were deleted. One by Pinnacle and one by Think. Comments like "You got owned" and others that do not contribute to the thread are going to meet that fate. At the very least, Diltech and Taurus are having a constructive discussion over the role memory plays in availability/pricing issues. Though I'd like less finger pointing and smart comments, as long as its on topic and helps the thread, pls do continue.
Perkam
In all the cards evaluation for speed and quality since the first Unreal and I saw most, I never saw the ATI cards behind in quality or speed;did you?Quote:
NVidia supplies 100% of Epic Megagames hardware. They do this in exchange for epic to optimize their games for NVidia cards. A rather fair deal if you ask me, "we supply you with the resources, you put our cards strengths to good use".
My point is:it's ALL about MARKETING!
ATI sell as many discrete video cards as nvidia more or less each quarter and you know that;so EPIC has no interest to not optimize their cards as much for both,and Epic always take their time to polish and optimize everything!!
Epic is a very small player even if they are getting a lot bigger since a few years and they cannot afford to alinenate 50% of their customers ( You know all of that of course cause you have been around since a long time).
About the GTX 512....Nvidia must have know about the shortage of RAM before they launch it?
They launch it for MARKETING reasons ONLY don't you see that?
BTW there is nothing wrong about marketing of course if you realize it's just that...a corporate image created primarily by marketing experts who use public relations and other forms of promotion to suggest a mental picture and thus facilitate product sales.
A corporation's image is not solely created by the company.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Thats RIDICULOUS! I was just trying to lighten the mood between Dil and taurus. You take things so seriously, christ.
<------- Im a joker :)
That's still no reason to crap a thread ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinnacle
Do you even know what I said?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim
Anyways, just drop it.
ATI's R580 chips in production
We know that ATI is in volume production of the R580 and it's getting ready for a late January, early February launch.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28228
From what we know the card won't have more than sixteen pipelines but will be able to process much more than thirty two pixels per clock.
Your post has been resurrected. You are free to bask in its glory :rolleyes: It wasnt too bad so its back. No offense intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinnacle
As for the R580 link:
Just 32 ??? I think that means 16-1-2-1 configuration...trying to go against 32 of Nvidia's pipelines. Thats very dissappointing...I was really hoping to see 16-1-3-1 :( But perhaps that would've been too many transies.Quote:
From what we know the card won't have more than sixteen pipelines but will be able to process much more than thirty two pixels per clock.
Perkam
I dont think 16-1-3-1 will help against 32 pipe 700mhz G71, maybe in some games but i guess it will loose in many others.
Lets just see what whats true and whats not..
700 sounds to high if its a 32pipe..
much more than 32 it say.....maybe 48..let's day dream...
R580 ps is 4core x 3quad x 4ps x [ 12 ] = 576flops.
regards
Whoa ?? didn't quite get that ??? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
Perkam
its goin to equivalent to 48pipes if that formaula is true, this is what i understood
it will have 3 quads each quad with 4 cores that can proces 4ps each clock then you get the "power" of 48 pipes.
that is consistent with what we got from the x1800 press release when we asked about r580
The Inq says 16 pipes with 32 cycles per clock...what you're saying is 4x4x3...which is what i Thought it would be...16x3 ... but it isn't afaik. I think its only 2 quads.Quote:
Originally Posted by metro.cl
Perkam
Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
could be but if you read the part of it would equal to more than 32pipes the formula might make sense.
Some farcry betapatch 1800XT crossfire bench:
http://translate.google.com/translat...language_tools
http://www.gzeasy.com/news/2005_12/1..._compare-s.png
Also look at HDR+AA screensshots (very nice!) :
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=988870