Radeon HD 7000 Revealed: AMD to Mix GCN with VLIW4 & VLIW5 Architectures

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Originally Posted by dasa

then i suspect your only playing games that nvidia had some input in making or you are waiting a month or two after the game is released to play as most new release games i have played have had sli problems unless they have a shiny nvidia logo
although a lot of games you dont notice it as two gtx480\570 have so much power that most console ports can run 60fps solid on a single gpu

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Its usually best to throw out some examples. From what I've seen and heard Nvidia did pretty well with sli profiles this fall. The same can't be said about crossfire in the past few months.

Here is a clip from the Rage3d 7970 review.

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All is not perfect, however. The cooling solution is a compromise; you'll have to settle for less than great acoustics as the fan isn't really quiet enough for a premium product. The second compromise is the biggest - software support. There are plenty of niggles in VECC, and the recent fumble with Saint Row: The Third, Battlefield 3, Skyrim and RAGE launch support doesn't inspire premium product confidence. A continued lack of an option for forced SSAA/Alpha texture AA/SSAO to be added to modern game titles in 2012 isn't premium enough. This is a brand new architecture with all the driver teething troubles accompanying that; you might be settling for less than you can expect for a premium $549 price tag.

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what a lovely floral comforter

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

Its usually best to throw out some examples. From what I've seen and heard Nvidia did pretty well with sli profiles this fall. The same can't be said about crossfire in the past few months.

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not saying they havent done well they have i am very happy with sli
just saying they are not perfect especially at release you just have to look in the drivers at all the new sli profiles added all the time and a lot of them are not in the drivers as the game is released unless nvida had some input into the game development and you cant really expect any better than that
some games take longer than others to get fixes probably sometimes due to the difficulty and sometimes the games popularity or both

as i said in a previous post two games that pop to my mind fist due to them taking a while and being games that i need sli working to get 60fps
the witcher 2 which took months to fix after two stages driver updates the first got sli working to a point where both cards operated at ~50-60% load which boosted performance a little but wasnt real smooth this took about a month then about 5 months later a update finally fixed it all up and now its great with ~100% usage on both gpu's
might & magic heroes 6 however still performs much worse with sli enabled than disabled and will lock up the pc with artefacts across the screen after playing for a while

its been a while since i have used crossfire first with x1900xtx then 4870x2 but i cant remember the problems i had with them being that different to what i am seeing with nvidia
if i end up getting two or three 7970 it will be interesting to see if there drives have really fallen to be as bad as some claim

edit
just been replaying portal 2 and realised sli seems to be broken in it now to at least with the latest beta each gpu is only reaching 50% load the cards have to be overclocked to maintain 60fps with 4xaa

is the far right one MSI? its a freaking huge black box!

are these 7990's ;) hehe

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

Its usually best to throw out some examples. From what I've seen and heard Nvidia did pretty well with sli profiles this fall. The same can't be said about crossfire in the past few months.

Here is a clip from the Rage3d 7970 review.

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That reviewer has a right to his opinion on a new product with new arc on beta drivers that aint officially on the shelf yet and expect its to be perfect.

Look how things are on hardware that they have gotten to grips with.

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I can confirm extremely capable quadfire scaling in Skyrim; 60+ fps @ 3560x1920 with 4x AAA. 2560x1600 also scales productively from triple to quad 6970. Thankfully, with lost planet crossfirex profile saints row 3 maxed now runs 70 to 100 frames with 70-80% per gpu utilization now, as we'll. Witcher 2, imo the years best looking release, runs fully maximized from 1600p up @ 99% usage & i can somehow push ubersampling from 25 frames per second minimal, and the venerable ******-in-crossfire Lost Planet 2 now flies 90+ fps with all directx 11 features in effect. BATTLEFIELD 3 pegs all cards at 99% from 1080p on up, and even metro 2033 with dof blurring vision whilst hogging resources is cruising above 50 fps in near 7 megapixel perfection. Only true problematic title is the phenomenal Arkham City..even operating in DX9 :[ really hope the driver team can remedy such with hasty resolve.

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CAT Preview 12.1.

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for me everything works fine, i know CCC team sucks, and same goes for nvidia, if you look how many threads for drivers problems, i care less now, i just stop playing new games and wait till theres a fix first, then i buy it. so my release dates for games is like a month past the real real release date

nvidia drivers
21,823 threads

ati drivers
8,381 threads

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WOW

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22192/1

http://hfr-rehost.net/preview/http:/...151941c1b.jpeg

http://kingpincooling.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1570

http://tof.canardpc.com/view/4bcdbbc...a01a079d7f.jpg

http://www.computerbase.de/news/2012...-in-den-boden/

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Originally Posted by tbone8ty

is the far right one MSI? its a freaking huge black box!

are these 7990's ;) hehe

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That's a Colorful card, certainly the 560Ti one :

http://tof.canardpc.com/view/f40051c...5270d34563.jpg

http://tec.colorful.cn/Product/Speci...b-bb1d178c9b4c

wow so close of 100K GPU for vantage

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Originally Posted by Andrea deluxe

http://techreport.com/articles.x/22192/1

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Love techreport articles, especially their game performance measurements.
Wonder why tessmark numbers are low, though.

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Originally Posted by zalbard

Love techreport articles, especially their game performance measurements.
Wonder why tessmark numbers are low, though.

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i like their concept, but the graphs could use a little more work to be visually useful. the line charts showing MS per frame is flawed in comparing between cards, they should invert that back into actual FPS, but leave it at each frame, but then scale them to all line up so they all use the same width. and the 99th percentile should be converted into a standard deviation chart instead since that will give them everything from micro stutter to major swings in framerate to let you know how close the effectively felt framerate is to its average. but its good they are different since so many other places just give you the same stuff over and over again.

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Originally Posted by zalbard

Love techreport articles, especially their game performance measurements.
Wonder why tessmark numbers are low, though.

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Because it's OpenGL based. Give one or two more Catalyst releases and they will be up significantly. I remember first two or 3 Catalyst releases after HD6970 launch didn't support 2 primitives per clock under OpenGL, bet this is the same issue. Simply you can expect good OpenGL performance around launch of FireGL card based on Thaiti.

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Originally Posted by Lightman

Because it's OpenGL based. Give one or two more Catalyst releases and they will be up significantly. I remember first two or 3 Catalyst releases after HD6970 launch didn't support 2 primitives per clock under OpenGL, bet this is the same issue. Simply you can expect good OpenGL performance around launch of FireGL card based on Thaiti.

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OpenGL support is something that AMD needs to work on. Its been a long time problem. I can't think of an opengl source port that I've tried that works as well on an AMD card as it does on a Nvidia card. For example Darkplaces which is a popular quake source port has never ran that well for me with the settings that I use. It never ran well on a 4870 and with a 6950 I still couldn't use pretty water which runs great on Nvidia hardware. Eduke32 with the polymer renderer just isn't as smooth as it should be with AMD cards and I've heard that complaint more than once, seen it first hand. Qrack which is another quake source port saw awful performance on a 6950 for me. Zdoom, same deal. It didn't feel smooth.

Brink and Rage at launch with any AMD card is another good example. Their opengl performance just isn't all that great. Its something that needs to be worked on.

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Originally Posted by Final8ty

That reviewer has a right to his opinion on a new product with new arc on beta drivers that aint officially on the shelf yet and expect its to be perfect.

Look how things are on hardware that they have gotten to grips with.


CAT Preview 12.1.

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That one quote may seem a bit out of context without reading the rest of the article which was mostly very positive. Thats the reason that I like Rage3d reviews. The author is very honest and knows his stuff. No review should be 100% positive. All products have their pros and cons. At the end of the day software support is something that AMD needs to work on. Even the little things like SGSSAA and transparency AA in dx 10 and 11 are nice features and things that I wouldn't mind seeing added in AMD's drivers.

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

OpenGL support is something that AMD needs to work on. Its been a long time problem. I can't think of an opengl source port that I've tried that works as well on an AMD card as it does on a Nvidia card. For example Darkplaces which is a popular quake source port has never ran that well for me with the settings that I use. It never ran well on a 4870 and with a 6950 I still couldn't use pretty water which runs great on Nvidia hardware. Eduke32 with the polymer renderer just isn't as smooth as it should be with AMD cards and I've heard that complaint more than once, seen it first hand. Qrack which is another quake source port saw awful performance on a 6950 for me. Zdoom, same deal. It didn't feel smooth.

Brink and Rage at launch with any AMD card is another good example. Their opengl performance just isn't all that great. Its something that needs to be worked on.



That one quote may seem a bit out of context without reading the rest of the article which was mostly very positive. Thats the reason that I like Rage3d reviews. The author is very honest and knows his stuff. No review should be 100% positive. All products have their pros and cons. At the end of the day software support is something that AMD needs to work on. Even the little things like SGSSAA and transparency AA in dx 10 and 11 are nice features and things that I wouldn't mind seeing added in AMD's drivers.

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Who said anything about 100% positive, SGSSAA and transparency AA in dx 10 and 11 i agree with but that's hardly going to be a priority when trying to write drivers for new hardware and are separate issues of AMD not having those features ever since and has nothing to with the release of new hardware.
Most people don't have powerful enough cards to run SGSSAA and transparency AA, even though i can in DX9 i just don't bother and neither does the majority, if it was a priority for the majority then we would all be using NV cards, the amount of screen shots i see with no AA is very high.

Rage has no official SLI support and there was a few games that NV didn't do to well out of the gate and AMD did much better, AMD Gaming Evolved titles swings and roundabouts, we can all pick games that each had issues with out of the gate and it changes nothing as many games have there own bugs out of the gate and need patches.

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Originally Posted by Final8ty

Who said anything about 100% positive, SGSSAA and transparency AA in dx 10 and 11 i agree with but that's hardly going to be a priority when trying to write drivers for new hardware and are separate issues of AMD not having those features ever since and has nothing to with the release of new hardware.
Most people don't have powerful enough cards to run SGSSAA and transparency AA, even though i can in DX9 i just don't bother and neither does the majority, if it was a priority for the majority then we would all be using NV cards, the amount of screen shots i see with no AA is very high.

Rage has no official SLI support and there was a few games that NV didn't do to well out of the gate and AMD did much better, AMD Gaming Evolved titles swings and roundabouts, we can all pick games that each had issues with out of the gate and it changes nothing as many games have there own bugs out of the gate and need patches.

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Which titles didn't Nvidia do well with out of the gate? I can't think of a single big title. Dragon Age 2 maybe which was almost a year ago. Does Rage even need sli support? I see maybe 50% gpu usage on my GTX560 and it stays at the 60fps cap. Is there a single resolution where even a GTX560ti would struggle in that game? I don't get your point.

I agree that AMD has gotten better with their software support but they have some things that they could stand to improve on. Nvidia cards are more feature rich. You've got 3d which is a big one for me, SGSSAA, transparency aa, and ambient occlusion. I would also venture to say better compatibility from what I've seen. AMD has come a long way with software support from what I saw when I had a 4870 but they still have a bit of a ways to go.

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Most people don't have powerful enough cards to run SGSSAA and transparency AA, even though i can in DX9 i just don't bother and neither does the majority, if it was a priority for the majority then we would all be using NV cards, the amount of screen shots i see with no AA is very high.

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Which brings me back to my original point, when you are spending $550 on a video card like this thread is about I think you can afford the hit in many titles.

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

Which titles didn't Nvidia do well with out of the gate? I can't think of a single big title. Dragon Age 2 maybe which was almost a year ago. Does Rage even need sli support? I see maybe 50% gpu usage on my GTX560 and it stays at the 60fps cap. Is there a single resolution where even a GTX560ti would struggle in that game? I don't get your point.

I agree that AMD has gotten better with their software support but they have some things that they could stand to improve on. Nvidia cards are more feature rich. You've got 3d which is a big one for me, SGSSAA, transparency aa, and ambient occlusion. I would also venture to say better compatibility from what I've seen. AMD has come a long way with software support from what I saw when I had a 4870 but they still have a bit of a ways to go.



Which brings me back to my original point, when you are spending $550 on a video card like this thread is about I think you can afford the hit in many titles.

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SHOGUN 2.

And tell the NV users here that they don't need SLI support for RAGE because you don't think its needed http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...c=211812&st=40

The point is that both AMD and NV have issues with support for games and its not all down to what you personnel think matters when it comes to others.

Yes i can afford to take the hit but as i have pointed out its not import to me to have SGSSAA and transparency AA in most games so i don't bother even though i can use it in dx9 games.

Yes NV is more feature rich but maybe those features are important to you but its not to me and if it was important to the majority then they would be using NV cards and high end ones at that, so that they could make worth while use of those feature's.
AMD has not given those feature's for many generations and keeping on about it every time a new gen comes out means nothing as people already know that AMD do not offer them and when they look at the latests AMD cards its first and foremost is about performance over the gen before and not well will they introduce SGSSAA and transparency AA in dx10-11 when its a driver feature and releasing new hardware has no bearing on that fact.

Maybe your saying that AMD should not bother making new hardware until they can be brothered with adding SGSSAA and transparency AA in dx10-11 in the drivers because no one is interested in new hardware without it, just like all the dx10-11 cards before.

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Originally Posted by Final8ty

Maybe your saying that AMD should not bother making new hardware until they can be brothered with adding SGSSAA and transparency AA in dx10-11 in the drivers because no one is interested in new hardware without it, just like all the dx10-11 cards before.

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Yup, thats exactly what I mean when I say that it might be nice if AMD were to work on xxx feature. :rolleyes: I'm not trying to start a fanboy war here. Take it how you will.

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

Which titles didn't Nvidia do well with out of the gate? I can't think of a single big title. Dragon Age 2 maybe which was almost a year ago. Does Rage even need sli support? I see maybe 50% gpu usage on my GTX560 and it stays at the 60fps cap. Is there a single resolution where even a GTX560ti would struggle in that game? I don't get your point.

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how about the three games i mentioned above? and that is just the first few examples that come to mind as they are rather bad ones there is lots but most get fixed fairly quick or as you say it often doesnt mater as a single gpu is fast enough for a lot of ports nowdays

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Originally Posted by Final8ty

SHOGUN 2.

And tell the NV users here that they don't need SLI support for RAGE because you don't think its needed http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?s...c=211812&st=40

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Neither NVIDIA nor AMD properly support multi card configurations in Rage due to an application limitation rather than any driver issues. The game just doesn't support AFR unfortunately and likely never will.

As for Shogun 2, I am a HUGE Total War fan and never experienced an issue with NVIDIA cards from day one even though the game is one of AMD's Gaming Evolved titles. Off the top of my head, I can't remember any major issues with NVIDIA drivers and new games. Maybe I'm just playing the wrong games...

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

Yup, thats exactly what I mean when I say that it might be nice if AMD were to work on xxx feature. :rolleyes: I'm not trying to start a fanboy war here. Take it how you will.

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The point is that comment could be made at any time when it come to driver features, you decided to bring up now and keep your fanboy comments to yourself.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Neither NVIDIA nor AMD properly support multi card configurations in Rage due to an application limitation rather than any driver issues. The game just doesn't support AFR unfortunately and likely never will.

As for Shogun 2, I am a HUGE Total War fan and never experienced an issue with NVIDIA cards from day one even though the game is one of AMD's Gaming Evolved titles. Off the top of my head, I can't remember any major issues with NVIDIA drivers and new games. Maybe I'm just playing the wrong games...

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Yes there is ans issue for both but the fact is AMD had not given up.

Shogun 2 was an issue at first for some NV cards with low Vram.

AMD and NV were having about the same issues with the same games.

@final8ty:
AMD cards also have 3D support, even my old 5830. And yes, they don't sell shutter glasses.

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Originally Posted by SKYMTL

Neither NVIDIA nor AMD properly support multi card configurations in Rage due to an application limitation rather than any driver issues. The game just doesn't support AFR unfortunately and likely never will.

As for Shogun 2, I am a HUGE Total War fan and never experienced an issue with NVIDIA cards from day one even though the game is one of AMD's Gaming Evolved titles. Off the top of my head, I can't remember any major issues with NVIDIA drivers and new games. Maybe I'm just playing the wrong games...

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Those are the first two examples that popped in his google search. I find if funny that he tried using rage as some example. When rage was released it wasn't the Nvidia users that I saw complaining about performance issues. I haven't played Shogun 2 or really followed it so I can't comment there.

BTW, is crossfire scaling on Skyrim yet? You know the game that for a couple of weeks there had a quarter of a million people simultaneously playing on Steam and still has twice the player base of any other game listed?

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Originally Posted by Final8ty

The point is that comment could be made at any time when it come to driver features, you decided to bring up now and keep your fanboy comments to yourself.

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I was just responding to a post. Burying your head in the sand isn't good for anyone. You sound like those Nvidia owners that would claim that the lack of DX11 support wasn't a big deal before fermi was released.

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Originally Posted by Dresdenboy

@final8ty:
AMD cards also have 3D support, even my old 5830. And yes, they don't sell shutter glasses.

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Have you tried tri-def to see how it compares to Nvidia 3d vision? I'll give you a hint, its not the same.

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

I was just responding to a post. Burying your head in the sand isn't good for anyone. You sound like those Nvidia owners that would claim that the lack of DX11 support wasn't a big deal before fermi was released.

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The point was there is no need to use the word fanboy ever.

Second point i said that i agreed with you about SGSSAA and transparency AA would be nice but its not important to me ATM because on avg the hardware does not have the grunt for it on modern games, when it does then i will be more interested, and no its nothing like support for DX11 official standard and development, SGSSAA and transparency AA has virtually no effect on game development as they are driver and user choices.

As for crossfire scaling on Skyrim it was in my first post to you.

I don't mind talking about physics/physx, SGSSAA, transparency AA, 3D ect.. but they should have their own thread and should not be brought in to every gfx card thread on a whim.

I want to read about Radeon HD 7000 series and funny enough that does not seem to be a problem on the other forums i go to where i would normally expect it to be.
No one is moaning about features, they are all talking about the performance, NV and AMD users alike.

When should we be expecting news and reviews for the 7950?

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Originally Posted by MrEs

When should we be expecting news and reviews for the 7950?

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Not in January unless they pull the launch forward again after pushing it back.