@ NVidia
There's a better way to make your boards sell. Just make them better than intel's... :p:
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@ NVidia
There's a better way to make your boards sell. Just make them better than intel's... :p:
The thing Intel chipset's ar not going to support SLI is not that bad, the fact NVidea is not going to support Conroe is just stupid.
Think it's time for crossfire 4 now :toast:
Well, I belive its illigal..Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
Monopol is illigal in Denmark... - "Konkurrence styrrelsen" I think that about "Competition administration", a organisation of the state, prevents it from happening... Phone companies, Fuel (Shell, Q8 etc.), Ice-cream manifactures etc. has been brought in court I belive, however Im not sure, but also a major scenery in the telly when they've made a bust..
Microsoft was also busted, but by EU and not the danish organisation...
- And I belive the case with MS was exactly the same as with Nvidia...
I'm not convinced nvidia will not support conroe unless Intel have decided to stop them and it is Intel's decision. nvidia spent a lot of time getting into the Intel camp to want to go back to putting all their eggs with AMD when it looks like Intel are in the driving seat now.
What's more likely is that nvidia supports conroe but does not overclock as well as Intel chipset ..just like with P4. Possibly some interesting choices to make in the coming months.
I'm not convinced the ORB will be turning red soon. I take it from k|ngp|n's comment that MM is constucting an nvidia GX2 quad SLi system and so this is likely to have massive graphics power at least. Whether that causes the AMD cpu to choke is another matter, doing Sli causes cpu overhead, does quad Sli cause 2 x cpu overhead ?
Regards
Andy
This is going to hurt nVidia more than it'll hurt Intel. ATi and Intel together again, old blood sticks with old blood it seems.
What? C19 was just made for Intel? All nVidia did was spit out a south-bridge which I could imagine that it's not a part "that" sophisticated to make, so "that" ammount of time just showed how much effort they put into a P.O.S. chipset which 90% of people got burned by not being able to overclock their CPUs nowhere near an Intel Core Logic can. I'd take an ECS with an SiS chipset before I take a P2ND2-SLI or any other nForce 4 chipset.Quote:
nvidia spent a lot of time getting into the Intel camp to want to go back to putting all their eggs with AMD when it looks like Intel are in the driving seat now.
Isn't ATI going for Quad-CrossFire as well?Quote:
I'm not convinced the ORB will be turning red soon. I take it from k|ngp|n's comment that MM is constucting an nvidia GX2 quad SLi system and so this is likely to have massive graphics power at least.
I'm too cheap to go SLI or CrossFire but my main hope here is that Intel should give nVidia the http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y21...le_fingers.gif and do not allow nVidia to come up with an nForce to support Conroe, because we know how well will that go.......Besides, I'm sure if that happens the next nVidia chipset to support Conroe will be the C51X which we know where that one would go as well but I definitely hope Intel would put an end to that crap for the sake of overclockers.
I think guilt goes to both of the player, Nvidia and Intel. Nvidia has ho have permision to produce (legaly) chipsets for intel platform. so they must have an arrangement with Intel.
Same goes with Sli for intel chipsets. If Intel would be really interested in SLI on their chipsets, I think they could come to some sort of agreement, cause Intel can just said to Nvidia: "no more nf for Intel then".
Some of the facts just saddens me, that we, enthusiast are left out, be honest, Sli today presents a much better solution for dual GPU than CrossFire, single GPU Ati can really much presents a competition, but CrossFire needs a lot of work. Especially that you need a master card is real bad. Why can't you just put two 1900XTX together?
well it looks like this to me.... amd is nvidia's chipset cash cow... once conroe is in the wild, we will have alot of people buying conroe's instead of amd's chips. this puts a hurting on nvidia's chipset sales. so to combat this, they will not support conroe, nor let intel enable sli on its chipsets to force people into buying thier chipsets for amd chips. this will preserve their chipset market.
there seems to be alot of interest in conroe compared to am2. i dont think sli is going to be enough to persuade people from buying conroe. ati needs to do a little work on their xfire, but after they figure that out i dont think nvidia will have any leverage to force people not to buy intels chips.
if intel enabled sli on their chipset, im sure it would own anything nvidia could come up with.... their best bet is to allow intel to do this, and sit back and collect the royalties. :fact:
Believe it or not, but I can't find that link. I have looked for a couple of minutes on Futuremark's site.Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
But yeah seriously, if Intel dominates in the 3D segment (vs AMD), nvidia is in trouble.
Hacked drivers would be possible, but difficult.
As to the bandwidth comment, Crossfire uses up way more bandwidth than SLI. Especially in mastercard-less configs.
QFT, this is on Nvidia's side not Intel. I read an article that indicated tyat Nvidia pull the plug.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorburn
this will cripple SLI sales as a whole. Here is what some people will think:Quote:
Originally Posted by rozzyroz
"If I go conroe I will only use 1 7900 GTX. However, if I search the I-net for those "drivers" I might be able to still setup a SLI. Even if it is not out now, I will take the gamble..."
If they did it once with the 975 chipset...what makes you think you won't see SLI setup again in the future?
As with all things...there is a price to pay when you take the high road. Only the meek and humble learn the low road....
Wow, ... looks like you've already cashed the check, made your reservation in BAHAMA's and already thinking retirement. Not so fast mate. The picture may not be as rosy for Intel, or shall I say as gloomy for AMD as you wish to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by rozzyroz
It is not all about SLI that people may just forget it and no matter what buy conroe, because conroe is "killing AMD".
I give you a simple example: I have been thinking about buying conroe, but you know what? I may not. why? BECAUSE I DON’T LIKE INTEL's FSB
AMD sure is more attractive when you are in BAHAMA playing w/ your conroe, and I am ready to buy a DDR3 5000 , 2-2-3-5 w/ AMD's playing w/ Z-Ram, and bustard bandwidth hungry GPU. You don’t think it’s gona happen heh?
Is my imagination wilder than yours? Or am I more realistic than you? tell me?
This is really stupid of nVidia to say the least. Frankly this sort of "we are going to push for OUR format becasue we're better" mindset is what killed Glide and 3dFX.
Everytime they try and push that :banana::banana::banana::banana: they get burned. (anyone remember geforceFX?)
While ATi's arrogance is astounding this really takes the cake. Not only are they going to miss out on almost all the market but they are not going to be fully directX 10 complient, instead it will be a butchered version like current X1k cards for atleast another generation (not good).
The fact of the matter is they need to sit down and admit they cannot build good chipsets. The only reason why it flies on AMD is because VIA and SiS are so :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty that it makes them appear awesome but on Intel that isnt going to work.
If they want to get into the Intel market they need to fix their power specs and their memory controller issues. Maybe then people will buy it, but preventing people from using SLI on intel chipsets is suicide.
Need I remind everyone that the RV570 does not need a dongle to use Xfire, it is for all intensive purposes identical to the SLI mechanism that nVidia uses. Their time of dominance is quickly coming to a close.
As far as I'm aware making a chipset support SLI is simply a case of providing the relevent PCI-E lanes, there is no technology that needs licensing other than PCI-E. Ergo anyone can produce an SLI chipset if they can produce a PCI-E chipset, the only limitation is NVIDIA's drivers.
NVIDIA licensed the Intel FSB technology to produce NForce 4 for Intel systems, but they refuse to open up there drivers to allow SLI to operate on non-NForce chipsets. Simple as that.
well, i was going off the posts that i have seen on the web, and on this site in paticular. conroe is showing very strong. that alone probably has nvidia thinking about what it needs to do. i think not supporting conroe is a big mistake, and they will hurt in the pocketbook for that mistake.Quote:
Originally Posted by RimRam
i dont wish anything on amd, i just dont see anything they have been showing that is going to compete with conroe (if the benchmarks are correct). i think nvidia is just doing what it thinks it needs to keep its chipset sales where they want them to be. they pretty much own the amd chipset market, and when amd takes a hit in sales, so does nvidia.
by keeping sli with only amd chips, it gives a little advantage to amd, thus helping their nforce chipset sales. :sofa:
Did that make any sense to anyone, because I got blinded by the "AMD rah rah" jingoism and couldn't focus my eyes for several minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by RimRam
You're spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorburn
Since the only thing enabling SLI is a connector between the cards, its ALL about the drivers. SLI motherboards are really nothing more than just boards with dual PCI-E 8x+ slots.
Nvidia could enable SLI on the Intel D975XBX but to do so would eat into whatever profits they seek to make from pimping their own Nforce boards. However, since they seem to be hinting that they aren't even going to support Conroe anyway - I really can't understand what they're playing at. It almost seems as if they are cutting their nose off to spite their face.
...or... they're really invested in PhysX on their cards, and think that by enabling this technology they will essentially do away with the need for SLI.. or will be as fast as an Xfire setup with one physical card?
Who says that someone like w1zzard wont come along and create a patch to do this?
I think that its going to come down to conroe comes out and if Nvidia is the best GPU available at the time people will mod drivers, if ATI is the best it will take awhile.
It is not a technical issue.
It is a money/licensing issue.
You see the NVidia NForce4 Ultra and NForce 4 SLI chipsets are the same, technically. As you could see in the past, you can turn Ultra equipped mainboards into SLI boards with some simple traces on the board. However, while the chipsets are the same technically, they have been sold differently. If the motherboard maker only payed for a set labeled "ultra" then NVidia will not allow them to make a SLI board from them. If they bought the same chipset but it was labled "SLI" and they payed extra money then they can make a SLI board.
I have to remind people that many U.S. versions of the DFI Ultra-D board, which is normally easily moddable to SLI, have been "protected" against the modding by applying a load of epoxy above the modding area. By DFI, after NVidia slapped them.
Given all the above it is absolutely clear that NVidia cannot allow any independent chipset maker to run SLI if they didn't receive their SLI "tax". If they would allow Intel to do so, then all their customers who have to pay the SLI tax, or who cannot make a SLI board from an Ultra chipset, would cry "foul".
its normal that nvidia dont want that sli works on intel chipsets, they want to sell their own. but i think they would only win if sli would work on intel chipsets...
Look at the profit of selling two high end video cards vs one low end mobo, chances are the mobo would be returned defective anyway (check return shelf at Fry's)
Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
That's like a kick in the pants ;)
Might I point you all here.
Specifically this bit:
I don't think nV will lose much sleep/money over this decision...Quote:
Multi-GPU Systems (5494 of 711282 Total Users (0.77% of Total) )
Suman
My speech wasn't mean to mean that I disagree. NVidia's policy is obviously just plain stupid ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by FUGGER
For every DFI Ultra-D that the user assumes cannot run SLI they lose a potential sale of a second video card. And NVidia only makes the extra profit of the difference in chipset prices. Looking at how cheap Epox SLI boards are the price for the SLI chipset can't be high either.
Not so. Word of mouth marketing is getting HUGE now. If Nvidia knew good marketing, they would not miss an opportunity to take advantage of w.o.m. on this and other forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocket