Also ATI is now letting partners OC there cards!
Also ATI is now letting partners OC there cards!
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=90332
I take it nobody took notice of my topic or something from like a month ago? :rolleyes:
:clap: congrats, you just gave away all benchmark wins to X1800XT :clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
PS: I dont think you should use Cat6.3 driver... its not stock... the card came with Cat5.10, so that is what you should use. Yess this is how dumb your comment was -_-
its a natural move for ATI to lower the price of this card, if they didn't any one who knew any thing would never buy it. I would still defiinitly go with the 7900gt over this.
price?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowmage
In terms of price, the X1800XT 256MB is about the same as the price of the 7900GT 256MB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hicks
In terms of price, they're about the same until you try to run them, at which point, ATI is much more expensive; ever increasingly so. Like A64 vs P4.
More expensive(Electricity) and ALOT louder. Power wise there's no questioning who runs on less watts, that much is for certain.
I can't work out if all those rolleyes were heavy sarcasm or not. But i was just pointing out, on a common benchmark, we can all reference to, my 256mb x1800xt beats all 7900gt iv seen so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
And also, as i said, IQ is significantly better on the Ati side of things. Don't ask how, but everything (textures especially) look a lot less blurry on Ati (not just having higher AA or anything, i compared at same IQ settings).
And johnny, i saw that thread, it's what set me looking in the first place.
not a clue of what you just said...Quote:
Originally Posted by ***Deimos***
but whatever.
it's obvious to me that people are getting kinda desperate to retain some sort of performance crown for thier perferd brand of videocard, and will grasp at any thing that gives them that edge they need.
BFG 7900 GT 475/1360
Gigabyte 7900 GT 450/1320
XFX EX 7900 GT 520/1500
EVGA 7900 GT 550/1580
XFX again... 560/1650
Another XFX 550/1630
MSI 7900 GT 450/1320
Asus 7900 GT 430/1300
PNY 7900 GT 450/1320
EVGA 7900 GT 500/1500
thats from newegg, as of this morning.
notice how out of all those, only 3 are running the actual reference clock of what a 7900 GT is suppose to be?
now, lets take a look at ATI's clocks.
again, from newegg... today.
HIS 512 X1800XT 625/1500
ATI 512 X1800XT 625/1500
Asus 512 X1800XT 625/1500
HIS 256 X1800XT 625/1500
Sapphire 256 X1800XT 625/1500
every card in bold... is running it's reference stock clock.
now.
this means, if you get a X1800XT, you know what to expect, cause every card comes with the same clock.
with the 7900 GT.... thats not so.
almost none of them run the same clock speeds.
so if you wanted to review these cards side by side...
and if you say, had the MSI one, and it didn't quite beat the X1800XT.
then you can just switch to the XFX ones... and then it would beat it, cause it was already overclocked.
so if you can't find a 7900 GT to beat the X1800... then you can just whine about "well this is stock" and get a XFX one... and get that advantage you need to be able to say the 7900 GT is better.
when infact... it's not.
your switching to a overclocked card, to sway things in your favor.
the entire X1800XT series, runs the same clocks.
the 7900 GT series, runs vastly different clocks, depending on the company you buy the card from.
so theres no way to get a "side by side" comparison.
what your going to get, is one specific brand of 7900 GT Vs. the Entire X1800XT line.
now, if your entire arguement is somehow based on the Catalyst Overdrive... might I remind you, that Overdrive, has to be unlocked, and doesn't run by default?
but whatever...
I've learned alot from this topic lately, and how peoples idea of "stock" vary greatly... even when they say things like "pre overclocked" and "stock" in the same sentance...
Kunaak, the Asus x1800xt TOP runs at 700 core... Just, they're no longer being produced, ASUS already begun discontinuing their x1800xt models. That's why very few, if any, stores still have them.
http://www.motherboards.org/reviews/...re/1580_2.html
http://www.asus.com/products4.aspx?l...68&modelmenu=1
Personally, I see it like this... Whatever your card is out of the box, that's STOCK for it, especially when MOST models aren't at "nvidia's stock" anymore. Don't care what anyone else says.
ATi allows partners to overclock their cards too, if those partners choose not to then that's on them, and so far the only partner to overclock the x1800xt was ASUS with their highly priced "top" edition.
Ati has really screwed up last year not only with releasing in low quantities, but there policies. Not only did they give up the 3 year warrenty to 1 year, they also screwed over anyone that bought a 1800xt, by releasing a much better product 3 months later with no incentive to upgrade( a la EVGA). ATI also made their 1800 series customers videocards reduced to half their value their by ripping them off(since this was only a couple months ago). THis was not because of competitive pricing, but a incompetent release schedule. The 1900 and 1800 should have been released at the same time with the 1800 series being released at the price they are now.
Nvidia business model has lead to a much better support system. Notice Kunaak that each of the ones you didn't highlight that comes pre overclocked comes with a lifetime warrenty. Every single ONE. With ati you get crap warrenty if you want to get the competitive oem pricing that just matches Nvidia in price in regards to the 7900GT.
Since much of this arguement is regards to value for the performance. We should consider these overclocked stock for even more reason.
If we followed your model as the comparison, should we deny the customer lifetime warrenties because it is unfair because ATI doesn't come with one(unless your powercolor(but even there lifetime warrenty pales to the nvidia ones)), and this is not stock on the ATI.
STOCK to me is whatever is covered under warrenty and comes out of the factory.
Most people are going to buy xfx, evga, and bfg anyways because they offer the best value, best service and best performance. So if we want to compare what is best for the consumer, we have to take the best of both fields ATI and nvidia. We shouldn't get the worst performer from nvidia, because us as those with knowledge about videocards want to help people make the best decisions on their purchase. Not to disclude a nvidia card because it came with too many value incentives. Its like saying sorry Nvidia you have to break your legs because you are too much for the competition.
Why do we care about warrenties? With the 7900s, if you truely want good clocks, you will have to vmod them. Bye bye warrenty. Plus if you toast a card overclocking you would be a real jerkoff to take advantage of a company because you screwed up.
hmm i foresee more users doing a bios flash than a hard mod. warrantee is a good thing to have.
EXACTLYQuote:
Originally Posted by Kunaak
if you want to compare ATI X1800XT to nVidia reference 7900GT, by all means go ahead. However, that will hardly give you a proper comparison. Almost everyone in these and other forums is buying the 500/520/550Mhz versions of the 7900GT.
Lets say you find two models you really like:
Powercolor X1800XT
eVGA 7900GT CO
If you were a reviewer, you wouldn't just ignore eVGA trade-up, just because the other doesn't have it. Likewise, you would compare each card at its guaranteed from the factory as is clocks. If you lower the eVGA's clock's its no longer "stock" as in, it is changed from default. Perhaps you are getting confused because sometimes people use "stock" to mean nVidia reference clocks (and righly so, if they their particular card uses reference clocks).
I'm buying an Nvidia reference clocked XFX 7900GT. I'm going to vmod it, get grease all over it, kill the warrenty and not even care about HDR + AA.
Sure, I'd love the option of an X1800XT, but for a Linux user it's just not an option, such a shame :(
However, even if i could use the ATi I'd have half a mind to get the Nvidia. I think it's just a more "fun" card to mod up and get benching with.
Also, i think it's a bit late in the day to be moving to RD580 and CF on socket939, so I'm inclined to go with SLi 7900GT with my NF4 (Nvidia _really_ trumps ATi there on 'nix systems). People also seem to keep quoting 05 scores. Yes it's slower in 05, but I'm thinking it's going to be faster than it's ATi counterpart in 3dmark06 judging from how it's bigger brother is performing (I'm talking overclocked and not "stock").
EVGA even warranties their cards if killed from OVERCLOCKING.Quote:
Originally Posted by afireinside
Only thing they don't cover is physical damage. No marks on the cards, no questions asked, you're being sent a new one... So much for warranties not making a difference. You can also step up within 90 days to a better card if you feel inclined too. You merely pay the difference.
How about BFG, if your card is discontinued and you send it in for a RMA, they'll give you whatever card is at the pricepoint(when they bought it) of your old card as it's replacement! There's been a few people who've sent in 5900 Ultra's and got back 6800's and 7800's.
There is NO ATi company with a warranty like that, bar none.
Me personally, dont care about warranties that much when overclocking. Its a chance that you are taking, getting the best of out the component you can. There is a risk of killing it. To get best results, vmods are required. This will mark the card sometimes, if traces have to be cut etc.
Also getting the most out of gpu's require, sub zero cooling. Single phasers, cascades, DI and LN2 etc. The cards are going to be showing marks of insulation etc. Even when you take off the shim and things like that.
Tbh, if your gonig to overclock, mod something then you shouldnt be thinking about the warranty.
Eh, if a company offers a warranty on overclocking, then you should think about the warranty.
lol why does it really matter?
Why are you even complaining about warrenties on a forum named "XtremeSystems" that specializes in sub-zero cooling, voltage modification, and LN2?
Really though, it's not ATI or NVIDIA who come up with the warrenty. As you previously stated, it's EVGA and BFG with the warrenties, not NVIDIA.
--
Now, back on topic, who has OCed the X1800XT 256MB? How does the OCed X1800XT compare with the 7800GTX 512MB?
I personally am not complaining, just pointing it out.
Both cards are good cards, and I wouldn't see a problem buying either any day of the week in this case. Don't know about you guys, but this round has been very interesting.
I can settle this discussion preety easy. I will order a the new x1800 card and let the orb speak for itself. Anybody up to the challenge?
no, but ill still challenge you to see who can get a higher score in the x1800xt battles. What cooling will you be using?
If you're down for benching your dual core @ 3.15, i'll run 3d @ stock and @ max stable settings with stock cooler and compare. The only thing we'd have to figure out is the ram.
i cannot reach 3.15 ghz i imagine. It's only an X2 3800, under water. Highest i've tried is 2.9ghz, which worked fine, but you can always clock yours down. I have less cache, but that wont effect 3dmark much.
Cards under water ok with you? My ram clocks like crap under the stock cooler, cos of those stupid insulator pads they put on it.
RAM...well my teamgroup can run up to about 265mhz or so, not that great a pair. If you're mushkins can make 260mhz, i can easily loosen latencies to 2.5-3-3-6 or whatever, i doubt having 2x1gb vs. 2x512 will make much difference. Or perhaps you have some bh5 lying around you can use?
I always feel benchmarks at dawn is the best way to determine something like this. What shall we do, 3dmark05 & 06. And no LOD or anything, put it down to the graphics alone, to make it fair.