these are already in retail..................
jab-tech
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these are already in retail..................
jab-tech
lol
TTV == :shakes: :moon: :gay:
From the picture of the Apogee block, I have to honestly agree the bases are similar to the MC5x ones.
I honestly do not understand HOW the Apogee honestly defeats the Storm
well see if you have a 1" by 1" heating element (the size of apogee base) it makes it pretty easy..
Storm was meant to cool the core, apogee was meant to cool the IHS... very simple.
apogee base is 1 inch square? dammit, its worthless completely. Can't even put a reasonable sized TEC on there.
just a guess based on the 5000 and 6000 series... so dont go flipping out.. lol.
MR, i thought the TTV heater-die is not 1" sq...it's about the same size as a normal intel die, no?
So If die dimensions play a big role,
Do you think that
MP-05 / Nexxxos XP design blocks are more effective then Storm with IHS (p4)?
I think MP-05 is smth. between Storm and Apogee => may adding a nozzle to Apogee decr. temps? As I can see inlet is rigth above the core...
Inlet in apogee is NOT right above the core... at all.
please god, maxx, not nearly that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxxxRacer
maratus, die dimensions play a role, but not really in the context of this discussion or the test bench that swiftech employs. the doubts of their test bench, which employs an intel ttv instead of the popular copper heater die, basically centers around the fact that the temperature readings that c/w values are based from are unreliable because they vary in connection to the heater element depending on waterblock shape. from what i've read of cathar's posts, certain blocks affect the IHS and TIM joint differently and that results in skewed temp readings across different blocks.
am i understanding right? or is it as simple as maxxracer is saying
so what block would you guys reccomend for a dual core with the ihs intact?
the storm or the apogee?
i'm thinking of getting the swiftech apex kit and according to the shop, if i buy one now then i'll get the storm block, but if i get one in a couple of weeks then i'll get the new apogee. :shrug:
exactly what I want to know. I have a X2 4400.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyr0
http://www.swiftnets.com/products/testsetup-apogee.htm
...at least that's swiftech's claim
they say on a 4400+, the apogee does half a centigrade better than the storm, on an apex kit
edit: of course the temp readings are from the IHS, which everyone frowns upon, so...
I would go for the storm if you are buying now, price has been coming down, it is tried and tested, performs awesomely.
Apogee is new, untested AFAIK apart from Swiftech numbers which seem to have some elements of controvesy surrounding them.
0.5C is well within the margin of error on most ppl's setups, you can often gain that much by tweaking the pressure, improving the spread of TIM, and can gain more by removing the IHS, and once the IHS is removed the Storm is definately better, so i would go with the Storm atm.
G
How can Cathar sell out of something that Swiftech themselves manf? Its about business, i dont care what anyone says. Noobies are cheap and they wont spend $80 on a block, no matter how good it is. Make it look like a storm and chop the price in half.. There you go.. New block that the noobs will buy.. Cmon, plastic barbs, this about counting pennies.Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptCrunch
Bad move on Swiftechs part, from a moral perspective.
Don't really agree with that statement. Anyone that knows Cathar would agree that he holds no ill will toward Swiftech as a result of this move. He's stated just that in several posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haltech
There is an involved thread about this over at procooling forums.
clicky
I just bought an apogee... so we'll see how it goes.
The move to put the Apogee in the kit in place of the Storm is pure costs reasons. Apogee is much more economical to produce, and I have a feeling performance will be slightly less than the Storm.
Note the Apogee is replacing the 600x series of blocks which will no longer be made.
yeah, cheaper to make and buy, performance very simaliar, and you will want this block if your running a multi block loop for better flow. i think REAL WORLD this block will beat a storm in most situations. if you have a very strong pump and a single block its another story.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plywood99
It's pretty simple to see why this block was made really, I believe it is an improvement, I don't think it's a great improvment, for example, it's like buying a a64 3000, then buying a 3200 (with the reasoning that both will be ran at stock), big wup...not a damn thing to be excited about. This block was made because it's a small improvement (which remains to be tested to see if this actually holds true), it's cheap to make, it's easy to make, they can use their marketing engine to sell alot. Nothing but a bussiness point of view. IMO, 10 percent improvement, 90% cost reduction. The result, a killer price point for a block that will prob be in the top 5 for blocks that someone would want in their system. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, it isn't from a business standpoint, ALSO, we should be thankful this block it out, it just drove the price of the storm down. Not to mention ANY competition is good anywhere for us in the end. At the end of the day, anyway u look at it, we win, and if the independent data comes out to be the way swiftech says it is on their page, well then, good for them too. Of course, personally, if it was me, I would drop the extra 10 and get the storm for any loop/pump. whatever combo. Yeah it's more restrictive, but so what, then u have an excuse to get a better pump ;) Sorry, it just bugs me to not have the best, some of you may not feel that way, not a problem. My setup may look expensive, but I assure u, that's purely coincidence, if I could have bought the best for less, I alrdy would have. Also, if I was going to NOT buy a storm, I'd just get a WW, it's STILL the best bang for the buck if your buying brand new.
it depends; are you xtreme or are you just 'reme, cause you cant afford the XT?
Storm G5, G7, easily rape an apogee, and anything else. Its all a matter of how much you're willing to pay. Obviously, swiftech isn't willing to pay for a decent and publically accepted testbed, so they take a lot of :banana::banana::banana::banana: as a result.
I just bought an apogee. Though I think roughly the same thing you do... I would be careful about riding such a hard line.Quote:
Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa
Take care to not "think" in a public forum... without facts. ... you may hurt yourself.
i was under the impression that an intel TTV is extremely difficult to acquire, much moreso than a hunk of machined copper. maybe swiftech uses their testbed because they think it produces better results and not because they want to manipulate the market to buy the apogee over the stormQuote:
Originally Posted by Bloody_Sorcerer
From what i have read there are doubts from certain people over the reliability of the TTV when used in this situation, read the procooling thread, specifically the issues that Cathar raises about it.
G
But why would they want to push the Apogee over the Storm? If the Storm performs better and costs a good deal more, then they've got two excellent blocks at two very different price points, and can capture both the regular-Joe and the enthusiast markets. The only way this strategy makes sense is if the Apogee really does outperform the Storm -- and I'm having a very tough time believing that at this point.
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