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I say we wait and see Jason....let's not speculate how a card could gain 50% MHz just by going from 110nm to 90nm. ;)
To go as fast as you're saying, I'm betting low-k would be needed and we know nV won't do that until we've all forgotten what they said or they're seriously lagging behind ATi in performance (which they're not at all).
I find that the 2 companies switch sides every generation of cards.(I.E. One wins over then the other and then reverse and so on and so forth.) I really think ATI has got enough momentum to give the one-two punch to nvidia this time around.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMouse
I haven't observed the same thing....9700Pro > Ti4600 (that's not fair for a few reasons, though), 9800XT > 5950U, X8x0XT > 6800U, X1800XT > 7800GTX.....it just takes ATi a little while longer to get there ;)
December you say, I shall add it to my christmas list...:D
That's a manner of opinion & application used. For those of us who don't base our decisions upon 3dmark the 6800u was our choice.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vapor
The Geforce4 went up against the Radeon 8series, not 9series, and NVidia DEFINITELY won that round, and every one before that. ATi's R3xx architecture literally owned NVidia's NV3x, that's no secret, and that's was honestly the turning point for ati. I seem to remember at one point, I believe it was the 3 series, where ATi released a new videocard(the 7 series) to compete with it, and NVidia released a new driver and completely stomped it with their older card. I might be wrong, it may have been earlier, but I *think* it was that one.
As for the x1800xt vs. 7800gtx, we'll have to see if NVidia's new card hits the market before ATi's is available. Currently, they both have their strengths and their weaknesses, and it's definitely too early to call it. Especially with ATi's card showing 5-6 months later than NVidia's.
x8x0xt>6800u mmmm 1vs1 but you forgot nvidia can SLI their cards so they have a hughe advantage
so i think nvidia won the serie 6 vs r400 just because you can sli
I'll keep my post short and sweet: let's agree to disagree ;)
Anyway, I don't see the swapping back and forth (before 9700Pro I didn't know a thing about computers so I have no reference and I don't mix well with history :p: ). I also don't see any promise of this card being anything more than a 512MB GTX yet....so it's really all speculation.
What I do see is ATi coming later and later to the game but with better and better stuff....once it's there of course. :D
That's precisely the trouble with ATI at the moment. If their product release schedule slips any further they will be matching their best currently available technology against Nvidia's next generation.
Worse yet, ATI has slipped so far behind now that when it does actually have the crown (in terms of available retail performance) they only it hold it for a few short months at best. By giving Nvidia the crown for so long (7800gtx being available for almost 6 months now) they loose serious ground not only in the high end, but in trailing middle market.
ATI needs to leapfrog Nvidia by a huge margin to get things back up to speed. I don't see it happening this generation. Looks like ATI will have their time in the sun for a very brief moment, if it all, this time around when it comes to available performance.
I hope ATI gets it together soon.
Good point mdzcpa....completely forgot that eventually they'll just slip into nV's next generation (that'd be funny historically though) and get killed. A leapfrog is something that they'll need--or stay between nV generations and hope that nV doesn't match them when they come out for a while--but that's hoping for A LOT.
just wait and see, but i really feel like nvidia has been preparing something to compete with the x1800xt.
Now as r580 i now from first source it would be better thatn r520 but not something impresive, the source said we arent talking much about it but it'll be like the 9700 to 9800pro upgrade (from r520 to r580).
There are also many other bottleneck in a pc like cpu power and software, the cards are much more advanced and are cpu and software limited.
One question is there a chip of gddr3 faster than 1.2ns??
regards
I dunno about this Ultra coming out or not...but the cleverness of Nvidia's marketing department is something to smile at ;)
Apparently, ATI used tid bits of information and timing to stall ppl in their decision to buy a gtx/GT by having an XL/XT always appearing in the horizon in their minds since August...and now, when Nov. 10 comes along, ppl will have an Ultra to look forward to...:p:...which will convince ppl to wait more :D Very Clever indeed exploiting that brand "loyalty" advantage. This would explain their tightlipness too.
Perkam
I wouldn't count too much on a Press Edition version of the already Press Edition labeled X1800XT. Neither availability or performance wise. Historically, the
X850XT -> X850XTPE
520 core -> 540 core (+3.8%)
1.08 ghz -> 1.18 ghz (+9.3%)
X800XT -> X800XTPE
500 core -> 520 core (+4%)
1.00 ghz -> 1.12 ghz (+12%)
just for reference:
6800GT -> 6800 Ultra
350 core -> 420 core (+20%)
can't remember mem clocks... lol
certainly, the GT was not the GTX at that time, but it did have as many pixel pipelines as the ultra, while the GT has not as many as the GTX. so i think this would still be a valid comparison between a possible Ultra and a GTX through a historical view. they both had the same amount of memory too.
The little "PE" did not mean very much to the world. Not even from X800XT -> X850XTPE was a big step (just core +8% and mem +18%). Then a GTX at 490 is 14% faster than a normal GTX, and it's not even an ultra. Also theoretically 1500 (ATI's 1.26ns) over 1200 Mhz (nVidia's current 1.6ns) is a solid 25% boost. Moreover, don't expect a PE version to have 1024MB while a potential Ultra would (most certainly) have 512MB (that is twice the amount of its "predecessor"). No, if we look at history a little PE or even +50 "PR rating" wouldn't do much difference (if nVidia indeed are able to keep it up). instead, ati would have to bring out the R580 or similar for more of a 9700->9800 jump.
Well ATI themselves said that they could easily bump up the clockspeed and release an higher clocked part....read it like 2 days ago (don't ask me where, because I'm playing Serious Sam II :D )
You read it in the official ATi news thread, the one I posted...
It was ATi's ceo that stated it tim, at a shareholders meeting.
Ah that's it, thanks :)Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
lol easy, it weren't my words :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMouse
But I totally agree with you...IF nVidia brings out a card before ATI does, better performance and slightly cheaper...ATI is done for...total screwup ....I'm not joking here guys...they already lost so much money on GTX and GT....check almost every sig here....so many people have 7800 series card in their rigs...High end cards have a bigger impact on sales then you think :(
Not to mention the loyal share of fans that they already lost...the 9700-9800 day loyalists who already swapped sides...that is a very bad thing for ATI, they are burning them up at alarming rates...but hey, that's what you get I suppose... ( you know the lies and promises that they can't deliver, etc, it's horrible... :( )
I hope ATI can pull out of this one...R580 maybe? Slight chance that we will see that card before spring/summer 2006...
We need a chill-pill smiley.....:D
That problem with transistors in R520 really made one big mess.
Dont really know if ATI is the one to blame.
Would have been safer to not go 90ns i guess.
ATi were talking about NVidia, as in NVidia could just bump their clockspeeds in the 7800gtx.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMouse
see?Quote:
Originally Posted by ATi'sCeo
It would be sweet if nvidia could just start putting out 7800gtx's without cold bug. Hopefully the ultra won't have it. It seems that with the right scaling, this card could compete if it could get below -58c. Am I wrong?
You know how much the X1800XT costs here in the UK? $830 US Dollar (470 Pounds)
I for one don't care at all about that....who cares about worldrecords...I just want the card to perform properly under normal conditions...Air or water :)Quote:
Originally Posted by k|ngp|n
I mean it's cool to see how fast they can go, but other then that, useless really (probably the wrong forum to say that, but heck it's my own opinion) :D
A guy from ATI told me that G70´s architecture doesn´t get benefit of higher memory frequency than 1500mhz. So that if Nvidia shipped 7800s with 1.26ns running at 1500mhz, overclocking their memory won´t show results. He said stuff about the e-clocks or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
haha a guy from ATI told you that? LMAO :fact: (not bashing you, just finding it funny)Quote:
Originally Posted by JuanFlaiter
just kidding, but even if it will run at 1500Mhz it will kick ass....
he he, we know :p:Quote:
"THAT ALL THE REVIEWERS GOT I love saying this btw"
Tim, you're talking to someone who gets the newest graphics cards from ATI/NV to review before release, so I'd believe 'em ;) Secondly, ATI and Nvidia know much more about each than they let on...however, we CAN test this result, as the xtreme OCers here have taken the GTX's ram close to that.Quote:
haha a guy from ATI told you that? LMAO (not bashing you, just finding it funny)
just kidding, but even if it will run at 1500Mhz it will kick ass....
Perkam
Thats the problem that we are creating here. We really should not say "if". We should say "is". The GTX has a cold bug. :fact: So right now there is no "if" it did not. I really dont want to pick on you but I think we should see cards for what they are not what we want them to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by MickeyMouse