lol, a carton... heh they are probably more reliable then the inq though dont you thinK?Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
and thanks for sorting ths mess out for us perkam... :toast:
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lol, a carton... heh they are probably more reliable then the inq though dont you thinK?Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
and thanks for sorting ths mess out for us perkam... :toast:
I'm getting tired of saying this...ATi told stock holders NOT to expect the R580 before SPRING/SUMMER OF NEXT YEAR!..They're already being sued for lying to them, they surely won't try it again. They can't release it, as they have TOO much money tied up in the R520, and by releasing the R580 they'd kill their own sales! :slap:Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
What if the supposed to be "forthcoming" card from nVIDIA ( if R520 beats the GTX ) is just a clocked 7800GTX ? ( most chances... )Quote:
Originally Posted by Troman
And yes...ATi might release a refresh as well...
And for the R580 ones...no way, no economical way.
It's not just pawning the rivals hardware...
:D You're right PERKAM - but recognize all the 3D junkies are that much excited so I think there is no bad purpose in opening such an amount of threads about new ATI cards.......... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
BTW, if R580 will be releaed even this year I'll wait for it........ :banana:
:toast:
:toast:
they said they are having even problems with the crossfire chipset 480 and the new one is coming this december so companies dont want to roll out this chipset cuz in a few months there is going to be a better one
the r580 they said next year and they said if the r520 get the clocks they want they are going to be ahead of the 7800gtx by a little margin so nvidia can clock higher their 7800gtx (7800gtx ultra maybe?) and be in the top till r580 comes out and they release the ultra version of the 7800gtx
Supposidly, NVidia will release the G71 when the R520 comes out, and the G80 when the R580 comes out... In otherwords, NVidia has a trump card for everything ATi throws out.Quote:
Originally Posted by leviathan18
Some of these cards may perform better than each other but crossfire appears to be better than sli. So who knows, in crossfire we'll have to see what x850xtpe's can do, and what r520's can do. They may beat what the nvidia' cards will do in sli.
That depends... NVidia has ONE trump card in the G70 that's as-of-yet unknown or unannounced to be on the R520(and my sources say it's not to be on it). Hardware Radiosity, something that up until this card has been computed by the cpu. This, if used by software companies(and judging by the fact that games took advantage of ultrashadow and sm3 rather quickly), will be a BIG increase in both performance AND IQ for nvidia cards in games that use it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Troman
Anyone who does 3d modeling/animation/rendering KNOWS how much cpu cycles radiosity takes.
http://www.nvidia.com/page/geforce_7800.html
Click on Radiosity.
http://www.siggraph.org/education/ma...overview_1.htm
http://www.gamedev.net/reference/pro...s/rtradiosity/
A basic idea of what Radiosity is/does.
My favorite quote...
As you can see, it WAS impossible before this to render radiosity in real-time...Atleast full detailed radiosity.Quote:
As you can see, that is an extremely time consuming, and memory hogging method. It should now be obvious that real-time radiosity is impossible, right?
Well, as I already said, that is only one of many methods. Lightflow, for example, uses an ad-hoc algorithm for all light calculation (including radiosity) that is much much faster then the traditional radiosity method. There are also ways to optimize the traditional method to make it a bit faster. There are also many other methods of calculating radiosity.
But all of those methods, however fast they may be for non-real-time calculations, are still not fast enough for real-time use.
I don't know why no one's ever mentioned this feature, or even made note of it, but it is a BIG deal if it gets put to use, as it'd easily give increases of about 15 fps over ATi cards in an indentical situation if it's used, especially in a CPU bottlenecked situation, as that's ALOT of stress off the cpu. Trust me, Radiosity WILL be used in games, UT2k7 anyone?
I like where this discussion is going so this thread will be merged with "ATI News Thread".
--Threads Merged--
http://theinquirer.net/?article=25898
600MHz with 16 pipes? And that's supposed to be the limited edition version? How is ATI supposed to compete with that? What's worse is they said the regular one (the one that will actually be available) will only work at 500MHz. WTF?
I had the same reaction when they said 500Mhz...the X800s and X850s of today have the frequency and pipes.Quote:
What's worse is they said the regular one (the one that will actually be available) will only work at 500MHz. WTF?
However, I'm still confident their pricing strategy will pull through for them...or at least I hope so. With 7800GTs with 20 Pipes and easily ocable to 500mhz available for $374 at the egg, ATI will NEED a miracle to get through this holiday season successfully if what the inq reports is true.
Perkam
Yeah true that....I don't think this is gonna go right for ATI, especially because the R520 is IIRC an expensive chip to make....and the GT @ $374 isn't gonna help either....when an Ultra version comes out...the GTX and GT will probably drop down in price (again)...Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
And you gotta remember the time of the year...(Christmas etc) No new ATI card for a long time....nVidia will be making lots, and I mean LOTS of cash on the GT GTX and maybe the Ultra...
And....and I think this is really underestimated....they have again...all the time of the world |(not to mention money) to make a G80....remember that the G70 was already ready in the beginning of 2005....so when R580 comes out.....nVidia will be there again to whoop ass...ATI IS in big trouble and they can't do anything about it...they cannot give up the R520...they need to make money off it.
I still laugh at this hole discussion of ati having problems and this and that with the holiday season. I dunno about you but frankly I never buy the highest card becuase I can't afford it. i dun see everyone on xs holding a 7800gtx! Most people like nvidia or ati and get a card they can afford. For me its a refurbished x800pro that I beat to hell for clock speeds, for Tim its a 6800gt!
AgreeQuote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
I bought the highest card once, and i'll never do that again. Two Months after i could buy it for hafl the prize. I felt like a donkey. EEEAAA EEEAAA
But i still find it interesting, in the sence that the prize will drop for the cards i'm looking at. Plus it's always nice to get some serius performence even in the upper middle range cards.
Regards EEEAAA EEAAA
This isnt news but its related so I'll link to it. It rides on my last post. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...24#post1024524
Eh you give the GT a tad too much credit. If I'm not mistaken they only really get to around 450 on average. Performance remains roughly 30% under the GTX. I mean don't get me wrong, I see what you're saying overall. NVIDIA has two cards in the highend range that ATI has no competition for. NVIDIA is basically holding a huge performance benefit for the $400 and up range nomatter how you look at it. Sheesh, if I were ATI, I'd launch whatever the hell I could as soon as I could, and price the current X800 series cards to ridiculously low prices (esp the highend range).Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I think when people talk about gloom over ATI's situation, they're not refering to their financial position (which isn't in entirely great shape right now anyway, which doesn't have much to do with enthusiast cards). Most people just want ATI to win the performance crown. Well maybe not WIN the performance crown, but provide good competition for that and other price ranges. I mean we here at XS are performance enthusiasts, even if we don't buy top-of-the-line stuff. You can't tell me you don't gawk at insane performance numbers when you see them. And it's hard to watch ATI losing so badly right now. It's been a tight race so far, and for the last few years the battle of graphics solutions has left people on the edge of their seats, what with scandels, neck-and-neck performance, yield problems, the different strategies.... it's just been back and forth with both companies taking shots, but now it's completely one-sided, and frankly depressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
But it's just one battle in a long-running war. ATI might have lost some with the long hiatus on a response for the GF7 series (and Shader Model 3.0 cards in general for that matter) and SLI, but by Christmas the restlessness should settle and ATI will be strong in the market again. They'll have all their answers released, and whether they win top performance or not, it's enough to keep things going.
I'd be very surprised if that Inq article turned out to be true. I'm confident ATI will offer very competitive performance, and probably even win the crown for a while. They didn't sit by all this time idle, they planned out how they're going to beat the 7800GTX, how they're going to be able to do so while still releasing cards in a timely manner, and how they're going to market their stuff.
Sorry for the rant. :p:
alright thats it..
ATi has 35 days to prove R520 is a good card and have it availiable or I am just going to pick up a 7800GT
If ATI doesnt deliver at least the crossfire platform (still absent) by the end of sept...forget the r520...you'll be looking at a company in a very different position than it was a year ago.
And I'm waiting for the Intel Crossfire platform so I have to be doubly patient.
Perkam
i dont think crossfire is goin to come out soon they are changing the chipset for a new improoved one, so why a manufacturer ewould use a chipset that has "problems" and improoved one will come pretty soon, from the buyer point of view the same thing happens, i only see macci playing with the first revision of the mobo if it ever comes out.
ati is in deep trouble, nvidia lost 2 gens back sorry and they also didnt sit idle all that time.
From atis point of view if they dont have a killer card and have to come sooner with r580 or r600 and dump r520 all of the cost or most of it is goin to the new cards so they'll be really expensive while nvidia is doing great and still can drop prices lower
I'd just like to know where fuad got his info this time... :D Yesterday i posted projected 16 pipe 600-650mhz, 512bit GDDR3 @ 1.3ghz.... :D
In all seriousnesss tho...if they get close to the GTX performance with 16 "pipelines", then they have done well i think. Personally i think we will see about 8250 stock benches in 3dmark05, with an FX or P4EE, and overclocks to just over 9000.
I very seriously think that they have gotten the extra performance by means of the memory bus, like i posted elsewhere, and i don't see very many systems being CPU capable of supporting the next-gen ATI cards. Becasue of this, and becasue i know that ATI has WAY TOO MUCH STOCK, which will instantly lose value when the new card is released, i think the delay may be for very good reason, finacially, for them.
Like alot of others...i tihnk ATI is in for a rough 2006...i hope they can pull out of it in 2007.
It makes no difference if ATI has the top end card or not, It makes a lot of difference if they fail to make headway into the IGP and chipset market. The top end cards are not where the bread and butter are...
Well if you're going to look at the IGP market, in comparison to NVIDIA ATI has made a lot more progress. NVIDIA has been real late to their releasing their solution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugly n Grey
Yeah I think they are doing the old side sneak on NV. Revenue will flow from the xbox deal and those engineers will come back to core products and also continue to bolster the chipset guys.
Most marketing dollars are going to be directed towards putting ATI IGP chipsets in as many systems as possible...that's why they need the Intel launch to be so perfect, these boxes are going to mainstream business and will help them cut into Intels chipset and IGP market...They are not as concerned about the AMD chipsets because quite frankly, AMD has a much lower market share in business desktops and laptops.
Nvidia already knows they will be chasing ATI for lower power parts where ATI has sunk some recent R&D dollars...
In any case, these two companies are about FAR more than R520, G70/80... that's just the parts us guys here get excited about. The birth of death of a high end chip will not and has not sunk either company in the past, nor will it in the future..So all you sensationalists pipe down... :toast:
Aunt Ugly
:D Speak for yourself...I'm getting an Ultra...if it's gonna be there... :DQuote:
for Tim its a 6800gt!
Seeing the R580 tape out while the R520 is still being worked out, even though we now know how little a tape out means ;) , is still encouraging...cos it means ATI ISN'T wasting ALL its resources on the R520...hence the delay in the launch.Quote:
i hope they can pull out of it in 2007.
Once everyone has all their cards ( :p: ) on the table around Mid 2006 , the market'll settle down...and two things will happen for the benefit of the consumer:
1. The price gouging will stop because the nex gen high end, the mid and the low end will be finely defined.
2. The last gen cards will drop in price significantly to accomodate the new gen, so those looking to get a good deal on x800s/x850s/6800s will be able to do so, especially with the advent of sli/crossfire making this a more viable option.
Perkam