RedLine Death

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06-06-2005, 12:46 PM
jinu117

I think its funny how people forgets blaming DDR booster when it came out for killing memory. This is a little more intricate than just blaming memory.
Now, explain me how I managed to get 4 sticks of Blue that died at same time? Now, there are few things I DID notice that would kill memory controller of earlier A64 (not sure about venice and winchesters). Run high volt memory on direct vdimm cap modded mobo with Enermax PSU (pre-noisetaker) or PC&P 510 Dlx. Just let it run for a while after you find your initial max memory speed stable. Keep running it few days and see how your memory overclocking decreases... (it's slowly killing your CPU's on die memory controller) Friend killed about 4-6 Fx-55 over time to find out which PSUs were doing it with direct vdimm mod. Blasphamy? (considering we have PC&P 510 Dlx devouts here as well). No as I was able to reproduce it.
Now here comes important thing I am thinking on cause of these death. Not all PSU is designed equal (of course not) and under certain circumstances, it might conflict with the design of MOBO to deliver the voltage. (remember MSI neo2 cold boot issue?)
It could be entirely problem with DFI, or combination of DFI and certain PSU, or... combination of above 2 + memory. Bottom line is, it is not Winbond UTT alone that is causing this problem. 4 Sticks dying together... sure... I had 4 bad sticks of UTT at EXACT SAME time? What are the astronomical chance?
06-06-2005, 12:55 PM
JNav89GT

excellent point jinu117
06-06-2005, 01:05 PM
bachus_anonym

@jinu117

First UTT showed up in OCers' rigs at the beginning of Dec 2004. At that time I had Neo2 with a Booster. I had run 2 sets of BH-5 (KHX and Mushkin) @ up to 3.9v in it and 3.7v for 24/7 operation + 2 sets of UTT (VX) @ up to 3.7v and 3.5v for 24/7 operation. Guess what died - VX... both of them within 5 weeks.
Then I switched to DFI NF4 + 4v feed. So far I used only those 2 kits of BH-5 in it. They are still alive @ up to 3.95v and 3.80v for 24/7 operation.

This leads me to believe that it's not the mobo that is killing sticks. I used same PSU on both mobos - 20-pin Fortron 530W.
06-06-2005, 01:47 PM
Duonger

Quote:

Originally Posted by jinu117

I think its funny how people forgets blaming DDR booster when it came out for killing memory. This is a little more intricate than just blaming memory.
Now, explain me how I managed to get 4 sticks of Blue that died at same time? Now, there are few things I DID notice that would kill memory controller of earlier A64 (not sure about venice and winchesters). Run high volt memory on direct vdimm cap modded mobo with Enermax PSU (pre-noisetaker) or PC&P 510 Dlx. Just let it run for a while after you find your initial max memory speed stable. Keep running it few days and see how your memory overclocking decreases... (it's slowly killing your CPU's on die memory controller) Friend killed about 4-6 Fx-55 over time to find out which PSUs were doing it with direct vdimm mod. Blasphamy? (considering we have PC&P 510 Dlx devouts here as well). No as I was able to reproduce it.
Now here comes important thing I am thinking on cause of these death. Not all PSU is designed equal (of course not) and under certain circumstances, it might conflict with the design of MOBO to deliver the voltage. (remember MSI neo2 cold boot issue?)
It could be entirely problem with DFI, or combination of DFI and certain PSU, or... combination of above 2 + memory. Bottom line is, it is not Winbond UTT alone that is causing this problem. 4 Sticks dying together... sure... I had 4 bad sticks of UTT at EXACT SAME time? What are the astronomical chance?

OUCH.. BAM.. THANK YOU.

Duonger :toast:
06-06-2005, 01:57 PM
jrw

A lot of interesting points. Troubleshooting these issues seem hard, and I share the view that it's superb that companies actually persue them.

As long as the killed components are covered by warranty it's no problem for us.

If decisive answers comes up on this memory death issue - LOL - maybe we'll even start seeing companies warranting their components kills on other manufacturers components?

Buy a DFI board, and have DFI replace your dimms when they get killed by the board!

Bleee, Im tired. Subscribed though :)
06-06-2005, 08:35 PM
Revv23

things like this make it hard to figure outwhos killing thier stuff and whos getting deaths because of other issues, my theory is this.

With all of the random DFI deaths, it seems like some of these boards are jewels, and others are cheap, seems to me that if you have a good board you wont have any problems with it killing things, but my theory is that the random deaths arent the only quality problems with these boards, and many may have gotten bad apples that will end up killing thier ram, just look at how some can run tons of volts for endless amounts of time and others can kill several sticks of varying IC's...

I dont think the IC is at fault here, while im sure many have died from high volts, id say its likely that just as many have died from a quality problem with the DFI's, especially for those people that have stuff dieing below 3.5v
06-07-2005, 02:36 AM
jiff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revv23

just look at how some can run tons of volts for endless amounts of time and others can kill several sticks of varying IC's...

Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent removing the sticks with power still being feed to M/B.
Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent flashing bios with jumper 17 on 5 volts and 3.3+ still being fed to ram.
Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent pumping 3.6+ 24/7 through there sticks.
Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent using 5v j17 but only using 3.2volts.
Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent using a case that has zero airflow and doubles as a Central Heating unit.

Maybe
Just a thought, A complete do and dont guide made as a sticky might be a good idea :stick:
06-07-2005, 04:27 AM
setyotomo

guys, i just got my UTT back alive after 4 or 5 days flat lined
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ad.php?t=65035

this is interesting...
06-07-2005, 08:10 AM
Revv23

Quote:

Originally Posted by jiff

Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent removing the sticks with power still being feed to M/B.
Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent flashing bios with jumper 17 on 5 volts and 3.3+ still being fed to ram.
Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent pumping 3.6+ 24/7 through there sticks.
Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent using 5v j17 but only using 3.2volts.
Maybe just maybe the ppl that can, arent using a case that has zero airflow and doubles as a Central Heating unit.

Maybe
Just a thought, A complete do and dont guide made as a sticky might be a good idea :stick:

a guide may be nice, but you said it yourself, maybe the people that can arent using the 5v jumper, which would denote a problem with the board, and many run over 3.6v 24/7, which is the point of my post.

all a guide would need to say is to keep airflow good and how to flash bios without killing ram, and that i am sorry to say doesnt seem to be the greatest cause of these problems.
06-07-2005, 08:34 AM
EMC2

You would also want to add a cautionary note to be sure that Vmem was off before removing/swapping sticks (it is applied with the MB off in some cases). Verify by checking the Vmem LED nestled next to the yellow slot closest to the CPU.

Peace :toast:
06-07-2005, 08:52 AM
DriveEuro

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowpuppy

Runnining my redLine at 3.3v with my OCZ booster/K8N Neo2 cooled with a desk top fan. They were working fine, I powered down to go to work and apon returning home my PC wouldn't boot. Booth sticks bad.

Were you running with the 5v jumper enabled?
06-07-2005, 08:57 AM
pershoot

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriveEuro

Were you running with the 5v jumper enabled?

there is no +5 on MSI NEO. he was using the booster.
06-07-2005, 10:57 AM
DriveEuro

Yeah, silly me. I got confused when he said this:

Quote:

just thought I would let some others know as most of the deaths seem to be coming from the DFI boards.

I forgot the problematic setup was an MSI.
06-07-2005, 12:48 PM
cowpuppy

Sorry I havn't gotten back with everyone, I didn't relize the size of the thread until today.

Well I called Mushkin today and a kind lady got every thing taken care of for me and I recieved my RMA#.

After getting home today I tried each stick individualy and they both sticks booted. so then i tried both sticks and no boot. Currantly I am doing some booster repairs and will get back with every body on whats going on.
06-07-2005, 01:20 PM
cowpuppy

I repaired a old booster that I knew the pot went bad on. Agian niether stick will boot. I tried different fsb's and different voltages and it all ends up with the cmos alarming about the mem.

I decideded to swap boosters only after I tried the 1st time to boot with 2 sticks and noticed for the 1st time the voltage was wacked on the booster. I probably has a faulty pot also. It seemed to run my BH5@ 3.5v 265fsb no problems
06-07-2005, 01:52 PM
Duonger

We will be posting something soon to help answer questions about dead memory and cold boot.

Duonger
06-07-2005, 04:56 PM
cowpuppy

I'm not sure whats going on with this mem. I agian was able to get one stick to boot, but only after booting it with one stick of BH5 and then shuting down and inserting the redline. I was able to run hexus_pi fast, so I shut down the pc and tried running both sticks and was greated with the cmos alarm. Now it wont boot with one stick agian.
I have no problems booting with any mem I have here except the redline.
06-07-2005, 07:41 PM
Dumo

Strange...My Mushkin Blue chugging along fine :D even its an utt too like red :confused:
06-07-2005, 08:30 PM
tictac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duonger

We will be posting something soon to help answer questions about dead memory and cold boot.

Duonger

...waiting official statement from Mushkin USA.... :sofa:
06-07-2005, 10:38 PM
Duonger

All

http://forums.mushkin.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1982

This is the 1st of it. we will post a formal and more thorough bulletin tomorrow.

Duonger
06-08-2005, 02:13 AM
cowpuppy

Duonger: This is great advise for the newb's........but I'm a Vet and I've probably forgoten more about PC's than you even know. My mem moduals were in from the day I recieved them and were never removed untill I started having problems.

It maybe a start/shut down issue that is causings the deaths, but thats how it is here at my house. My pc runs when I'm here at the house if I leave for any amount of time I shut down in case of a power outage, where my Mach2 would start agian when the power came back on freezing my CPU/MB.

I'm back to using My Mushkin Blk LV2 BH5 at 3.5v 265fsb as I was before I bought the redline with out any problems.

Don't shift the blame to the custemers.
06-08-2005, 06:27 AM
AMDnewbie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duonger

All

http://forums.mushkin.com/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=1982

This is the 1st of it. we will post a formal and more thorough bulletin tomorrow.

Duonger

fyi, there are also dead rams on yellow slots too....
06-08-2005, 09:07 AM
Duonger

This is just a brief help guide that Ian wrote up. We will be posting a more thorough one shortly.

Duonger
06-08-2005, 03:35 PM
Dumo

Probly redline spd should be programmed @2-3-2 so it can post with lower voltage, but then it will be the same like blue mushkin which rarely got a cold bug...
06-09-2005, 05:47 PM
tictac

Quote:

Originally Posted by Duonger

This is just a brief help guide that Ian wrote up. We will be posting a more thorough one shortly.

Duonger

Any Official statement yet... :sofa:

If thing get worse and..... more & more memory die... will Mushkin stop Redline production line... ? :(

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