Water Cooling questions

lol, VX will never reach DDR600, ever, TCCD like you have might if it's good enough. The big deal of VX over TCCD is that it can run 2-2-2 timings at 250-260MHz.

250MHz 2-2-2 = 285MHz 2.5-3-3 on average.

260MHz 2-2-2 = 300MHz 2.5-3-3 on average. However, 260 2-2-2 is more easily attainable some may say than 300 2.5-3-3.

And of course if you have BH5/BH6/UTT that can do 270MHz or higher with reasonable volts, you really have no competition unless your talking to OnePageBook or another one of those TCCD nuts that can do DDR650 at 2.5-3-3 timings.

The timings have a lot to do with how long it takes to complete an instruction. So with 2-2-2 timings you have a lot less steps to do than say for 2.5-4-4. So even though the 2.5-4-4 might be DDR600 as opposed to DDR500-510, it still has much more work to do and cant make up for that with speed.

Not to mention OCZ is just cool all around ;)

Im confused about those terms "BH5/BH6/UTT" :confused:
Is that the so called "brain power" of a mem?
So what matters the most is to have the tightest timmings possible?

How about the volts of a OCed RAM?
What I understand is that less than 3.5v is more stable than 3.6v, but 4.0v is even more stable than less than 3.5v at really high clocks

and one more thing. Im running really short on money. It may be really hard for me to get the OCZ VX ($260). I would need to sell some stuff.
If anyone is interrested with a Thermalright XP-120, CoolerMaster Realpower 450w, the Corsair XLpro, some 80mm and 120mm fans, a Audigy 2 (6.1), and some other stuff, please PM me.
(I can post this, right?)

Tight timings vs loose are like 3% in a typical game. It good for bragging rights and some benchmarks, but don't expect your comp to suddenly get much faster. Consider that around 90% of memory access in a typical program don't touch main memory.

Also the amount of "work" is the same with tight or loose timings - the only difference is how fast it does it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Butcher_

Tight timings vs loose are like 3% in a typical game. It good for bragging rights and some benchmarks, but don't expect your comp to suddenly get much faster. Consider that around 90% of memory access in a typical program don't touch main memory.

Also the amount of "work" is the same with tight or loose timings - the only difference is how fast it does it.

---

Yep....dead on.

Turok from the sound of it you are scraping to buy the parts for this machine. This will be my last warning. Don't run high volts if you plan on keeping the stuff you are buying for any length of time. The odds of a failure are far higher. The VX ram requires high ram voltages to work properly. This means running the ram off the 5 volt rail to get the most out of this ram. (Moving the jumper.)

You have to remember that many people on this forum have either deep pockets, get free parts, or eat ramen noddles to scrap up the money to feed their addiction.

From you talking about borrowing money from your parents and your inexperience in overclocking I am guessing you are young. Have you ever even built a computer yet? I am not trying to give you a hard time but the questions you are asking are those with little overclocking experience.

Please understand that I am not arguing with the fact that OCZ VX ram can obtain a overall higher overclock with tight timings. I just takes tons of voltage. Please do some searching on this forum. There is much discusion about running this motherboard with the 5v jumper enabled.

Here is a link from the anandtech article that was linked to earlier.
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2386&p=4

Written in the article it states that for the VX ram to run at 2,2,2,6 @ DDR 400 it took 3V. The Corsair XL ram you have now will run 2,2,2,5 @DDR 400 with stock voltage of 2.6V on the DFI SLI board. It runs at DDR 500 at 2.5,3,3,7 with only one tenth of a volt more. 2.7V No it will not run at DDR500 @ 2,2,2,5 but it will run for as long as you care to own the system at DDR500 or more with low voltage.

From your discussion you sound like a kid that is wanting to build a bada$$ gaming system. Go for it. But remember that using it 24/7 is your goal. Not being on the front page of the ORB.

I am not trying to crush your hopes but trying to make you be more realistic. 3ghz on a A64 is possible but not likely for a day to day machine without Phase-change. (Hopefuly venice will fix that but only time will tell.) Aim for 2.7-2.8 GHz. That is a goal that can be obtained without overvolting the crap out of the CPU. Keep your TCCD ram. Shoot for DDR500 ram speeds with low voltage. If you do your temps will be low and the system will run for a long time. Also you never know. You could get a chip that runs @ 3GHz. I would not plan on it. Thats all. (I had a socket 940 FX51 that did 2.7 on water. Was an amazing chip for the time. So getting a good one happens from time to time.)

As for 600MHz on your GPU core. Did you read my previous post? I have run multiple X850 cards and none will run 600MHz core stable without a volt mod. The X850 XT PE in the system I just built runs at 575 core stable 24/7 with watercooling. (It will run 3dmark01 at 585 but 05 artifacts badly.) On the X850 cards ramsinks don't do much the ram does not get that hot. Again the big difference between the X850 XT and XT PE is ram not the core. The RAM on the PE is higher rated and will run @ 600MHz pretty easy.

I have 4 other X850 cards in stock right now that have been speed tested. All are built by ATI.

X850 XT PE 550 core 610 mem
X850 XT 540 core 570 mem
X850 XT 540 core 560 mem
X850 XT 545 core 560 mem

All these cards were tested stable at those speed by looping 3dmark for 24hrs. All these cards are stock. 2 will be watercooled shortly. As you can see none will run @ 600MHz core. Not even close. Again with a volt mod they would run at over 600 core. But if the videocard fails do you have the money to buy a new one? Gaming on a crappy card because you blew up you expensive one sucks.

The biggest thing is don't get caught up in benchmarks or which part is better than the other one. Selling new parts that you already have is crazy. At least put the ram in the system and see how it runs. If you feel that it is holding you back. Then change it. The main thing is just build the system and enjoy it.

Turok, BH5/BH6/UTT are referring to the winbond chips. Brain Power is referring to the PCB that is used on some of the sticks.

nice posts :up:
You guessed right AACDIRECT, Im only 16 and Im starting to learn more in depth about OCing, WC, and technical stuff about mem., but i do have knowledge about PCs.
I dont know much about mem is because the ones I had were really cr***y and were running on really cr***y retail PC mobo's, so the BIOS didnt even offer changing timmings and stuff like that, so I didnt bother OCing it. Now my parents agreed to buy me $2k of PC parts and I would add some of my money for WC, and other stuff.
I did build PC's previously and this is the best project Ive done for now (its my dad's boss PC):
http://img217.echo.cx/img217/3913/ba...project8er.jpg
Obviously my PC will be a lot better :D

Im not poor, but I also dont have a deep pocket
I only have 2 years in the US and everything I have now was bought, not brought (except for some few exceptiosn like my cat), so were kinda in a tight budget right now. :(

The PC Im building right now is just going to be like a head start into more sophisticated stuff about PC's. My plans are to keep everything nearly the same, but just update the CPU to dual core and the GPU to one of the upcoming 512mb cards.
The PC im building will be mainly for gaming, so the A64 is a must. When Im not playing games, Ill be learning about programming, using photoship, making maps for games like CSS or UT2004, and so on.

I would try liquid chilling, nitrogen cooling, phase change, etc. when I have money, but first a car :D

I guess Im going to do what you said AACDIRECT. Ill stay with the Corsair XLpro and see what I get when I OC it.
Its not as good as the OCZ VX in high speeds, but hey, the XLpro (as you said) runs at low volts and it looks awesome with those activity lights :rocker::D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turok

nice posts :up:
You guessed right AACDIRECT, Im only 16 and Im starting to learn more in depth about OCing, WC, and technical stuff about mem., but i do have knowledge about PCs.
I dont know much about mem is because the ones I had were really cr***y and were running on really cr***y retail PC mobo's, so the BIOS didnt even offer changing timmings and stuff like that, so I didnt bother OCing it. Now my parents agreed to buy me $2k of PC parts and I would add some of my money for WC, and other stuff.
I did build PC's previously and this is the best project Ive done for now (its my dad's boss PC):
http://img217.echo.cx/img217/3913/ba...project8er.jpg
Obviously my PC will be a lot better :D

Im not poor, but I also dont have a deep pocket
I only have 2 years in the US and everything I have now was bought, not brought (except for some few exceptiosn like my cat), so were kinda in a tight budget right now. :(

The PC Im building right now is just going to be like a head start into more sophisticated stuff about PC's. My plans are to keep everything nearly the same, but just update the CPU to dual core and the GPU to one of the upcoming 512mb cards.
The PC im building will be mainly for gaming, so the A64 is a must. When Im not playing games, Ill be learning about programming, using photoship, making maps for games like CSS or UT2004, and so on.

I would try liquid chilling, nitrogen cooling, phase change, etc. when I have money, but first a car :D

I guess Im going to do what you said AACDIRECT. Ill stay with the Corsair XLpro and see what I get when I OC it.
Its not as good as the OCZ VX in high speeds, but hey, the XLpro (as you said) runs at low volts and it looks awesome with those activity lights :rocker::D

---

Your system is going to rock. The parts are good quality and will run greta together.

I did not mean to say you were poor. Just that you did not have a 50k a year job. ;) I remember being 16. I worked hard for any money I got and buying something like you are was a big expense.

Take you time. Check for leaks before powering on. Start slow on the OC. In the end you will have a machine people will die for.

rgr that.
Im going to start buying the WC set and some accessories this friday hopefully (April 15) so I can start building everything.
Weapon hasnt PM'ed me back and Im running out of time.

I will have everything done except the CPU and GPU, Im getting those next month.
When I get my WC parts, Ill post again to show my progress.

Whould it be a good idea to get 2 of these fans?
http://www.frozencpu.com/fan-22.html
I like the CFM. I think I can bare the 45 dba. Ill find a method to silece it.
If anyone knows a cheaper solution for the same air power, please post.

Isnt a 120mm x 25mm with 100 CFM the same thing as a 120mm x 35mm fan with 100 CFM?

also, should I get the Connect3D OEM since it says 540mhz on core?

I know I ask too much questions, but I would like to get this thing perfect. :D

Running the fans at high speed doesnt do much for you. If you run the fans at 7 volts instead of 12 volts they'll still push a good amount of air but with way less noise.

I agree with the statement that when you OC you have to be able to afford to lose it. Think if a water cooling hose breaks then you're going to lose the system... x.x

Just be patient and careful, and remember the end result is supposed to be a fun computer to play with.

I want to be over 30 fps all the time with most of my fav. games at 6x AA 12x AF.
Games like CSS, HL2, FarCry, UT2004, Halo, The Sims 2 (somethimes play it), and I also like going back to the old school so I instaled Quake 2 Evolved, so Im replaying when can Quake 2 with 16x AA, 8x AF, 1600 x 1200, all effects on, and since it runs so smooth I also added vsynk and Im always at 91 FPS with my ATI All-in-wonder x800xt :D
Not going to use any high demand OpenGL softwares since I think Doom3 s***.

So, what your saying is that air presure doesnt count with WC? Should I just get a Stealth or a M1A fan?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turok

rgr that.
Im going to start buying the WC set and some accessories this friday hopefully (April 15) so I can start building everything.
Weapon hasnt PM'ed me back and Im running out of time.

I will have everything done except the CPU and GPU, Im getting those next month.
When I get my WC parts, Ill post again to show my progress.

Whould it be a good idea to get 2 of these fans?
http://www.frozencpu.com/fan-22.html
I like the CFM. I think I can bare the 45 dba. Ill find a method to silece it.
If anyone knows a cheaper solution for the same air power, please post.

Isnt a 120mm x 25mm with 100 CFM the same thing as a 120mm x 35mm fan with 100 CFM?

also, should I get the Connect3D OEM since it says 540mhz on core?

I know I ask too much questions, but I would like to get this thing perfect. :D

---

On the YS-tech fans. They are really really loud. They move tons of air but make tons of noise doing it. I ran 2 of them years ago and it made me crazy.

I would get Pabst or Panaflo. Both move a good amount of air and are not to noisy. Look for a fan with about 50-60CFM and 30dBA. Also for LED 120mm I use Antec. They are 56CFM at 28dBA. On the system I talked about above the radiator is cooled by a single coolermaster LED fan. It is 32CFM at 25dBA.

On the Connect3d card I have used them and they are good. I have not heard of them having a card with a faster core that ATI spec. I might guess it is a miss print. Even if it is it should be a good card. (I have yet to see a X850 XT not overclock to 540 core with the stock HSF. Like I posted above all X850 XT and X850 XT PE cards have basicly the same core. Most overclock close to each other. The RAM is the big difference. The PE cards RAM is faster.

Edit: this is the Panaflo I am talking about. http://www.frozencpu.com/fan-18.html

They are pricey but many feel they are the best.

The other on frozencpu is no quieter than the ystech. My personal system has three antec LED fans in it. They are a good comprimise between quiet low flow and high flow high noise.

and how about this question
"Isnt a 120mm x 25mm with 100 CFM the same thing as a 120mm x 35mm fan with 100 CFM?"

I ask this because I already have a Silverstone 120mm x 25mm and it pushees 103 CFM. Wont it be the same and cheaper if I just buy another Silverstone 120mm?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turok

and how about this question
"Isnt a 120mm x 25mm with 100 CFM the same thing as a 120mm x 35mm fan with 100 CFM?"

I ask this because I already have a Silverstone 120mm x 25mm and it pushees 103 CFM. Wont it be the same and cheaper if I just buy another Silverstone 120mm?

---

One problem is that not all companies CFM rating are the same. Also noise is another issue. One might be louder than the other. If the CFM is the same and sound level is same. Then thickness really does not matter.

I never have used the Silverstone but it should work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turok

and how about this question
"Isnt a 120mm x 25mm with 100 CFM the same thing as a 120mm x 35mm fan with 100 CFM?"

I ask this because I already have a Silverstone 120mm x 25mm and it pushees 103 CFM. Wont it be the same and cheaper if I just buy another Silverstone 120mm?

---

Fans are like PSU's, all 500W PSU's aren't the same, all manufacturer's don't follow the same rating system. Personally, I would go with a more well-known fan company.

Right now I dont have the money for a pair of fans for $60. It would really help if I get 2 good fans in a price range of $20-$30. If I buy another Silverstone 120mm x 25mm, then I only pay $20

Another thing is Im buying the DFI nf4 UT Untra-D, Audigy 2 ZS, some accessories for lighting and fan silencers and a cable pin remover, also the WC solution :woot:

But I still ahve 3 problems:
1) Weapon still hasnt replied
2) The AquaXtreme 50z (Black) are still unavailable :(
3) Need to solve that fan question so I can have a definit buy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turok

and how about this question
"Isnt a 120mm x 25mm with 100 CFM the same thing as a 120mm x 35mm fan with 100 CFM?"

I ask this because I already have a Silverstone 120mm x 25mm and it pushees 103 CFM. Wont it be the same and cheaper if I just buy another Silverstone 120mm?

---

CFM is one factor and Static Pressure is another factor.

Static Pressure is usually stated either in inches of water (H2O) or in millimeters of water (mmH2O). It is essentially a measure of the differential air pressure between the air pressures inside an application vs ambient air pressure outside of an application, which for airflow calculation purposes is usually 0 (zero). There is an inverse relationship between airflow and static pressure. As the pressure differential rises, airflow drops.

Turok...

Here is something to wet your wistle, my Monster came in today! This thing is awsome! It has the flow cannons on it and I will be running 4 120x38mm Panaflo FBA12G12M on a fan bus...


Core and shroud

Shroud on core

All I need now is my fan grills

Nice stuff spatman :up:
What core is that?
How much did it cost?

Its the Weapon's monster core...

cost?

You will have to talk to weapon about price becuase of the forum rules!

ok. ill do that
Dont want to get in trubble,
Weapon takes forever to PM back
Should I PM again?

He is very busy, took me like 3 to 4 days for a first response

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Turok

Right now I dont have the money for a pair of fans for $60. It would really help if I get 2 good fans in a price range of $20-$30. If I buy another Silverstone 120mm x 25mm, then I only pay $20

Another thing is Im buying the DFI nf4 UT Untra-D, Audigy 2 ZS, some accessories for lighting and fan silencers and a cable pin remover, also the WC solution :woot:

But I still ahve 3 problems:
1) Weapon still hasnt replied
2) The AquaXtreme 50z (Black) are still unavailable :(
3) Need to solve that fan question so I can have a definit buy

---

Dude just buy a 2nd silverstone. It will work. If you want different fans later they are easy to change.