What's the other part after the condenser and drier, with CO2 vapour tube out and the two capilary tubes in berkut's drawing?
So, can I use this draw in a r22/CO2 system without an oil separetor?
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What's the other part after the condenser and drier, with CO2 vapour tube out and the two capilary tubes in berkut's drawing?
So, can I use this draw in a r22/CO2 system without an oil separetor?
Berkut had two captubes going to the evap you don't really need this, I found it worked better with one. You should use an oil separator for r22, one isin't needed for r290 because it absorbs the oil so well.
i know...im a noob, and im trying to learn about cascades. whats the difference between a autocascade, and a cascade? :confused: :confused:
a cascade has a seperate compressor for each stage whereas an autocascade uses a single compressor and then uses pahse seperators to split the refrigerants after the compressor.Quote:
Originally Posted by ingentingmendeg
ahhh, i see. thanks.
Update.. Experimentation on teh autocascade continues.... Anyone else working on one>?? New gasses ...
Well my supplier finally came through on the last bits I need for the Auto I'm working on.
Nothing special for gasses, but it's R290/R23.
The only unusual thing is the 2hp compressor I suppose.
One thing that made me think though...
If you have the capacity, and I would think that with a 2hp compressor you just might, is that you could autocascade into 3 or 4 stages on 2 compressors.
I don't know if the ultra high pressure gasses are any different as far as auto's go, but why would they be...
ie I've got both a 2 1/4HP and a 2HP compressor.
!st auto runs, say, R290/R23.
2nd stage runs Ethylene/R14.
The only hitch is whether you actually could use 1150/14 and how they'd work in an auto, and how to work the oil separation. I remember there being a struggle with oil compatibility and R14 you'd mentioned in another thread.
Just seems that with a large enough compressor, you'd still be able to tune for enough capacity to cover the second 2 stages, and with the large compressor on the second stage, still have the capacity for a decent heatload. Also, you've got 290 to carry oil on the first, and 1150 to carry on the second, covering oil removal. Using AB on the second stage compressor can work down to -70 or better if the right oil is used.
I'm going to build the 290/23 auto anyways, but it just seems to me that it should be possible. It's mainly oil removal on the second stage that I'm not so sure about, and running a second compressor in to that kind of temp range in autocascade might not work well.
Just a thought, I should draw out a pic of the layout, and see if a visual shows any flaws in the concept.
Gray
I'm still working on some idea's to make a real autocascade instead of those suction line chilled HX's. Gasses will be r290/r170 or r22/r170. This isn't going to happen any time soon though.
unknown road you are a naughty boy :slapass:
you have had ethane for a while now and we havnt seen any threads from you.
chilly cant wait to see the latest auto blend.
no new gases for me, but i am having another crack at the autocascades.
i only got 1/4Hp r12 compressors so dont expect any crash hot temps.
and i dont want to destroy the cascade to use the 1hp compressors.
i need some r12 though to add to the r290/1150 blend to get it to work better.
garry can you get 170 and 1150, becuase of its dangerous nature i though you cant buy it easly in the UK
I think I've jsut been looking in the wrong places ;)
Still not for sure yet, but it's looking good.
Far cheaper than R23 though, so I'm very much hoping it comes through :)
Gray
Yeah I realised that myself when I got a bill yesterday for renting the bottle :(Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
My study takes to much of my time :mad:
garry i bet it is. its fun trying to find 1150 in you own country when not many others have tried before. can you get 170 cheap as well?
unknown road i understand studies can take up alot of ppl time.
i also rent my bottles, i got a shock when they my first account arrived to find that they charged me with a second bill of 1150, ie they said i bought another bottle.
but they fixed it all up now.
To be honest Kayl I haven't really tried on that one.
I should look as it's likely far cheaper than R508b and roughly the same specs, but no one lists Ethane that I can find. 508b or a is only a couple degrees off Ethane, but has a much higher mass, so should be roughly equal under load I'd have thought.
I'll check with the same supplier after this comes off, and it's possible that they can get it, and just don't list it as a gas that they normally have.
The worst is when you see how easy it is to deal with in other places and it's so hard to get in your own.
Gray
It's suitable to do the gases separation only in the phase separator after de condenser?
Or we must do it like the simple drawing, that requests for a condenser modification...?
Just out of curiousity, would it be possible to have a 3 stage autocascade?
Ya, in your dreams maybe...lol Try to build a simple auto cascade then come report back to me :P No it's possible but lol it would be near impossible to get it to work with a heat load.
Sounds as laughing at someone :nono: He is NOT going to build, but he wanted to know - for curious ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Cr@sh_D1n3r
The answer is yes, autocascades with more than two stages exist.
I own a 6-stage autocascade ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlz0r
pics ? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
thanks
Pics should be around somewhere here :P It looks VERY industrial though. Show off S7e9h3n :)
Hehehehehe...if you got it, flaunt it :p: Here are a few pics I posted in another thread. You'll notice that the area where all the autocascading magic happens (the heat exchangers) are sealed up in a block of foam. It's quite impossible to figure out how this thing works without taking all the insulation off:Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu117
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/8689/image0027us.jpg
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/2659/image0037cn.jpg
Now this is what you can see. The heat exchangers sit on a level above this area and basically double the size of the unit.....
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/9144/image0041yw.jpg
http://img394.imageshack.us/img394/5775/image0013ol.jpg
Orignially this unit was build for some kind of nuclear lab work. It was designed to remove 10W of heat @ -185C :eek: Chilly tells me that one of the six stages actually used methane - which, afaik, is the lowest boiling refrigerant behind only air and helium.......
:eek:
nice.... ;)
WOW s7e9h3n, that's a really nice build!!!!! What temps do you get when you mount it on a cpu?
TBH, since this unit was originally made for 10w@-185, it doesn't make an ideal cpu cooler @ ~150W. Chilly did the best that he could do with it and eventually got it to handle a decent load. Here's a screenie from my rig a couple of nights ago:Quote:
Originally Posted by SustaiN
http://img295.imageshack.us/img295/164/379wr.jpg
Oh, BTW, evap temps at that voltage were ~-50C idle, ~-41C load.
I've seen evap temps as low as -65C and never higher than -38C.
Can someone with autocascade experience tell me something about this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratax