u shouldnt spend 4 times as much on ur video cards as u GPUs, if ur gettin SLI, get a dam FX55, or you wont be doing ur cards justice, or get a 4000 if u dont have enough moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Crankster
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u shouldnt spend 4 times as much on ur video cards as u GPUs, if ur gettin SLI, get a dam FX55, or you wont be doing ur cards justice, or get a 4000 if u dont have enough moneyQuote:
Originally Posted by Crankster
Why? The 3200+ .9 should clock well enough.
You can run two cards ( similar to running an AGP and PCI card ) but you will not get any performance increase as the load is not split. Therefore buying two Ati X700XT's will be a waste of money ;) But if you like Ati that much feel free. I don't agree with your dual channel memory analogy either but feel free to link where dual Ati's are faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
This is nothing like nvidia's SLi mode which seems to give a 75% and up increase in performance
To be honest I think SLi has Ati worried at present. :)
Regards
Andy
I agree. Hopefully ATI has something up their sleeve. Either way, they won me over as a loyal fan as soon as the "9700 Pro killer hair dryer" was "released."Quote:
Originally Posted by zakelwe
LOL! What on earth makes you think that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Geforce4ti4200
I'm starting to think that with 8 posts and your avatar you might be an ATI fanboy.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Firstly you cannot do SLI with a 5900XT, that is the second basic mistake you have made in this thread.
Secondly, you say the 6800 will be worth less because you waited longer to sell them. But if you used them for longer then you got more hours per $ than using them for a shorter time , so it equals out.
With your favouritism to ATi you are deluding yourself and trying to paint a better picture of things than they are I'm afraid.
I didn't even have to clear my throat for that short rebuttal.
Regards
Andy
I agree with Andy.
Perkam, all you're doing is speculating. Stick to the facts. The fact is that nv has SLI. Fact is that ATi has nothing that comes close. Maybe they will later, maybe they won't. Nobody knows that for sure. And certainly not you.
If ATi makes a 32 pipe card, so will nvidia. And they will put that 32 pipe card in SLI again. Result: Nv wins. If ATI makes a 512 pipe card, nv will do the same and put that in SLI. Guess who's keeping the advantage?
They will not make a dual core card because the last time they've tried (rage fury maxx anyone) it sucked so hard ATi won't make that mistake again.
NVidia has been developping SLI for more than 2 years, if ATi starts tomorrow they still have a long way to go. ATi has to do something, and fast, but for now the future is green.
Didn't Nvidia get a big part of their sli technology from 3dfx when they bought them out or w/e happened? Tha'd give them an even bigger boost. I think ATI will do it eventually, they will have to to compete. I don't think it would take them 2 years, but when they do get it out, it won't be close to effecient as nvidia's.
Please remember, that already ATIs R300 and R360 are scalable for multi-chip solutions (e.g. for professional simulator market). So ATI needs not to start from zero.Quote:
Originally Posted by HaLDoL
We will see soon enough, what ATI is able to do against nVidias SLI...
For me, price and performance are important, not so much the name on a card (or on two cards... ;) )
Greetz, Flox
Yup, scalable to 256 cores on one card(suck on that VSA 100!!!) I believe there is a flight simulator that uses 16 R300 coresQuote:
Originally Posted by Flox
And as for the past Rage Fury Maxx comment, it was not a hardware failure, at the time ATI had what we will refer to as "bad driver implementation" :) I am sure we can all agree that ATi has improved their driver support 10 fold since then which would greatly increase the performance of a multicore chip if they so chose to implement it
Man, I wish i had one of the few voodoo 5 6000's that came out with 4 vsa 100's and just over 1 foot long, its massive physical appearance would be enough to scare anyone.
Only time will tell Andy, HalDol.
Firstly, before I respond: Andy, with more than 1700 posts, I am suprised to see that you would value the quality and credibility of my response based on the number of my posts and my avatar - Remember, we all started below ten and then got to 1000s plus posts. I have actually been more active on other forums (Team Radeon) and only recently joined Xtreme (less than a week) because of its world-class clockers like Macci etc and the knowledge they bring to the computing world.
Making comments like that hurts those who wander from all over the world from the Inquirer etc to see the marvels like the 6Ghz 560, 01 SE 40K, etc and encourages them to look elsewhere.Quote:
I'm starting to think that with 8 posts and your avatar you might be an ATI fanboy.
Newegg with PCX 5900s (Several of Them) - Same Price as 6600GTs BTWQuote:
Firstly you cannot do SLI with a 5900XT, that is the second basic mistake you have made in this thread.
Those extra hours per dollar would still be worth a LOT less because after you bought you brand new video card, its $/hour would be worth more. Secondly, your two cards would depreciate MUCH faster than the brand new one so if you ended up selling both after one year - you would sell two out of date cards for less money than one "still sufficient" card (think 9800 pro vs x800 pro).Quote:
But if you used them for longer then you got more hours per $ than using them for a shorter time , so it equals out.
Self explanatory - I believe myself to be inclined toward ATI for many reasons and one of them being that I have used their cards from the very beginning. Though I would be far from calling myself a fanboy with the Nvidia fanboys cropping up after the 9700 pro torched the entire GFTI4xxx line of cards.Quote:
With your favouritism to ATi you are deluding yourself and trying to paint a better picture of things than they are I'm afraid.
Maybe thats why it wasnt much of a rebuttal. :p:Quote:
I didn't even have to clear my throat for that short rebuttal.
Uh huh - Nvidia has been developing SLI (an almost obsolete solution from 3dfx) for 2 years ----> So guess how long ATI has know about and had time to prepare for it, if you are really that smart :stick: Wake and smell the coffee HalDol, ATI's response will be short 'n sweet (and they have more than one option to do so)Quote:
NVidia has been developping SLI for more than 2 years, if ATi starts tomorrow they still have a long way to go. ATi has to do something, and fast, but for now the future is green.
Perkam :cool:
yes, the 6800s need two slots for their stock cooler, but for extreme sli cooling thats great as it means the mainboard has to be designed to have 21/2 if not 3 slots room, wich means more than enough froom for a block with tubes on the side.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
and you cant say that what is true? that a block with the tubes comming from the side will work? i think bowman already built a block like that, ive seen one in the phase change section some days/weeks ago.
you mean the tiny bridge chip is a problem to supercool the gpus of 6800s in sli? how? its 2cm wide and located on the very far left of the pcb... how would it restrict a mounting system of xtreme cooling in ANY way? please explain.
welcome to XtremeSystems ;) the home of the 10% that want more than stock air cooling :DQuote:
Originally Posted by perkam
so your saying you can run two ati pciE cards in one system with two pciE slots and get a performence boost? you mean alx?Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
ok, we will see ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
depends on the prices... hard to predict...Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
even if its not good for cheap upgrades, you cant deny that it gives people, especially developers who need the extra power, the extra performence they need for a reasonable price. this is helping nvidia a lot as developers will programm games on their hardware. thats whats really behind sli i think, getting developers to use nvidia hardware to write new games, and be able to claim to have the fastest system.
5900xt cards dont run in sli ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
and 5900xt cards are bad performers, so it would be stupid to build an sli system based on it, even if it would be possible.
but 6800 and x800 cards are fine and wont be obsolete for years.
q2 afaik. the xbox was and is expensive not only because of nvidia. the xbox2 using the r520 doesnt mean anything at all...Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Quote:
Nils Horstbrink from ATI Germany commented about Nvidias SLI solution, admitting that it does indeed look interesting. ATi ,he said ,could of course release an SLI copy or multi chip cards ,but said ATi had no intention to do so in the near future. the X800 vpus DO support the same scalability as the R3XX vpus (up to 256 vpus on once card in theory) ,and cards like SGI's quad vpu 9800XT cards could indeed be realized with X800 gpus on them, but the market for such cards, said the ATi spokesman, was very limited.
ive seen a block from bowman i think that would fit between two cards in sli. ask in the phase change section, im sure its possible to build a thin block that fits between the two cards, remember that the cards have a 2 slot cooler by default and need quite some room between them to work with the stock cooler, this gives us quite some room.Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptobs2000
and dont forget, you dont need to insulate the block in between both cards to all sides! if the back of the block touches the back odf the lower card thats just fine, you just need a thin layer so it wont short the back of the card, thats all :) so the lower card will even get cooled from both sides :D
and perkam, i have to agree with andy, you sound like an ati fanboy. theres no reason to believe ati has something to compete with sli, yet you are 100% sure they do. thats not objective, thats dreaming.
and yes, newegg has pciE ported 5900s, so? you seem to not even know that not all pciE cards can run in sli! you need an sli interface on the pcb and sli logic with an extra frame buffer inside the gpu! only the 6800 and 6600 series offer this feature. you seem to pretend to be well informed but you actually lack some very low basics of this topic.
and we are treating everybody nice here on xs as long as they are nice to us as well and dont post some weird claims, some of wich are 100% wrong and then criticize people who question their credibility.
Just becuase a card is pci express, does not mean it can run in sli, only the 6800's have that technology built in. There is a place on the card where the bridge chip will go, no other cards have this, if this were true you could just take any x800 or ati card and use nvidia's technology if the drivers supported it. It's not that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I think you would, if there was not enough insulation then it would cool the back of the nect card, but you make a good point still. You could just insulate both the evap. block and the back of the following card somehow, and they would be sharing the same insulation. This way no air could get in. And I think it would work fine. It would be alot more work to make everything just right but I think it could be done.Quote:
Originally Posted by saaya
And not all 6800's have stock 2 slot coolers either. I'd like to know how much clearance there is going to be on these 2 pcie. slot mobos', they must realize there will need to be sufficient room for decent airflow as well, maybe we'll get lucky and not even have a prob.
the room between the two cards is limited by the bridge pcb.
if you look at the nf4 sli and the tumwater sli boards you can see that the room between both pciE graphics slots is around 3cm. the cards are stuck in the middle of the graphics slots, so its around 3.5cm between the pcb of both cards.
thats not much, but im 100% sure that its possible to design a phase change head that fits in there :)
I dunno, I think you'll beable to put a phase changer on it without having to do anything fancy, but I think they could have designed it better or something. Stock wise I'm saying there's not much room for many of the stock coolers, and they will get bad airflow. Not to mention, sucking up some heat thats coming off the back of the other card.
true, the heat comming from the back of the lower card must be a lot!
the air above the lower card is probably at least 10C hotter than the normal case air, wich is around 30-40C in most cases. so we are talking about 40C+ hot air to "cool" the upper card. i guess its not a coincidence that nvidia launches sli in winter ;) :lol:
Uh Huh...
You know how the republicans are always accusing democrats of being too liberal and the democratics are accusing republicans of being too conservative - calling me an ATI fanboy says something about your biases as well - whether you like to or notQuote:
and perkam, i have to agree with andy, you sound like an ati fanboy
And YES, i knew that the lowest mainstream card to support SLI was the 6600 the day it came out - I was using the 5900 xt as an example of an obsolete PCIe card as no other obsolete examples are available as you said yourself that 6800 Us are far from being obsolete for a number of years.
Where's your response to this saaya:
Quote:
Nvidia has been developing SLI (an almost obsolete solution from 3dfx) for 2 years ----> So guess how long ATI has known about and had time to prepare for it, if you are really that smart
Just because nvidia has been developing it for two years, why does that mean ATI knew about it? I'm not sure if they said anything about it 2 years ago, but I sure didn't hear about it untill just a few months ago. So ATI knows no more than the consumer.
And how can you not be a little bit of an ATI fanboy at least, your avatar is advertisment enough. I am not an nvidia fanboy, although lately I have become somewhat anti ati, due to their crappy drivers. They havn't had a decent driver imo since the 3.7's. Since then they've all brought about new problems, or reduced image quality in turn for performance or something. Right now I have a 9700 pro in my box, and I love it, but this generation I'm liking nvidia's offerings better, call me a fanboy if you want.
Ill answer that in place of saaya we are all thinking the same thing.
3dfx SLI solution had put the 3df cards generations ahead of the competition, as 3dfx was going out of buisness some of the vodoo5 6000's got out and some people ran benchmarks on them they performed just as good as the ati/nvidia cards, save the fact they didnt have the same pixel shaders, did about a year after the release of it. It doesnt matter if ATI knew about Nvidias SLI solution, Nvidia purchased the rights from 3dfx and if ati wanted to have something similar they would have to come up with something 100% different or else get many lawsuits filed against them.
Please stop speculating you might take geforceti's place (no offence) at least He has SOME reasoning/math behind his thoughts
Why does it need an answer? SLI has been around forever and its not really an issue to start with.
Those who want to pair two $300 cards together to beat a $600 card will do so, those who want to run a $600 card and sell it later on for $250-300 then buy a new $600 card that will beat the 2x $300 cards will do so..
Dont get me wrong, I like the idea of SLI, but there really isnt much to argue about..
ATI would have to worry about it, because there will be no way they can be the fastest (single card yes but overall no) if they have nothing to compete with it. If someone wants a complete top of the line system and money is no issue, there wouldn't be a reason to buy an ati card.
Its just amusing to see such anxiety over a simple statement:Quote:
Please stop speculating you might take geforceti's place (no offence) at least He has SOME reasoning/math behind his thoughts
It is really TOO HARD for you people to believe that ATI, being just as competitive as Nvidia, to have a response to SLI, which in my view is a desperate attempt to gain 1-2 % more market share compared to the 10% it lost to ATI last year.
This is the first time ive been in a forum where seniority automatically means knowledge or superiority. I've never stated in ANY of my few posts that I was better than anyone in any way. Its people like Andy and Saaya who have been making most of the those accusations - being senior/experienced members might I add.
I MEAN, youre more than ready to believe that if ATI brings out the R520 sooner that Nvidia will respond equally yet to vanish the thought that ATI might have something up its sleeve ???? (WHY :rolleyes: )
Seriously, being judgemental instead of inputting constructive criticism is not the way I would act after a couple of 1000 posts.
As for SLI, time will tell how feasible it remains but keep this in mind - Nvidia is on an architectural path of doom since it might ultimately be shipping SLI II or something utilizing three cards instead of two but using old technology. My concern is with the greater good of the consumer who wants the newest in graphics technology - not more of the same.
A good way of selling out those overstocked Video Cards laying around in inventory. :p:
ok im dont argueing but to clarify nvidias current SLI is NOT the same as SLI made by 3dfx SLI that 3dfx had alternated a line on the screen ot be rendered by each video card. Nvidias new SLI renders differnt parts of the scene with each video card, its all new and revamped we will have to wait for it to get public before we really see what happens
actually thats exactly how the current sli works as per its launch documents - an alternating line for each video card - not very different from 3dfx. Its the only efficient way to run SLI but its also the oldest.