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Storm just wants to make a buck off this thread. He said it himself.
so worried about making the NC look bad when he can't , yet has a website full of dead links and only 1 good working page.
He is far from an Intel lover but if he could make a $$$ on intel he would. :D
by the way what happened to his SIG ??
back to the topic how are the 3500+ vs 3400+ real world comparisons coming along???
Iam out of the loop my X800 is on back order until Sept 1st :(
it was anti intel. the owner of this website works for intel. do the math. (just my theory)Quote:
Originally posted by iboomalot
by the way what happened to his SIG ??
whats his website again?
Ok I'm done. There is no reasoning with someone who won't even consider some logic. You compare a 939@near 3ghz with a celeron. You compare a NC vs FX to a celeron vs P4. I never mentioned sandra b/c I think most tests are irrelevant in cross comparing platforms. I think at best it lets you measure any tweaking you do to your pc vs baseline to measure gains/losses. I don't use AOL and check email. I rip/burn dvd's, I game, I would consider myself to be appreciative of speed, but yet somewhat value concious. You argue 754 is faster, 1mb l2 is the be all end all of PC Nirvana. Well if the clocks are high enough then yes. I'm not talking about p4 vs amd. that's apples and oranges. Honestly, I think you would believe a 2.4ghz FX would wipe the floor with a 2.9ghz NC. I doubt it. There is a point in the cross comparison where NC will win given enough mhz to overcome the cache deficet. My point in leaving my FX is that it's a damm expensive cpu, I don't need it at this point b/c my rig runs doom III fine, everything else like butter, and the FX offers me no advantage right now other than bragging rights, and yes if I benched 3dmark like a robot would be invalueable. I will probably buy one again, b/c yes I want some bragging rights. But I want one higher clocked. I didn't spend the $$$ on my rigs to come up short of a personal goal. I would personally rather just hold out a bit for something better and in the meantime "get by" with yes a slower but still damm fast cpu. Don't insult NC owners by saying their cpus are slow. That's like saying a C5 vette is slow b/c it's not a Z06. Your argument while somewhat valid(in that 1mb L2 are faster than NC mhz for mhz) yet is still flawed by your intense arrogance, and failure to apprecaite that some applications don't value cache as much on A64. You piss people off b/c you belittle them and then expect them to bow to you b/c you've obtained a certain score in 3dmark. GG self esteem. I think you need a lesson in manners and humility.Quote:
Originally posted by StormPC
That's exactly how my friend feels about his Celeron. Both of you are happy with your systems and that's fine. The difference between my friend and you is he does not try to say the Celeron is as fast as the ClawHammers, even though his Celeron kicks the crap out of any S754 CPU in Sandra Memory Bandwidth tests. I'm done with this topic. Please do not expect me to respond to any more absured notions regarding Newcastle cores because I no longer have an opinion on that unless you are buying a system from me.;)
Wow, this thread deteriated. I voted even. I think that clock for clock the s754 CL wins some tests and the s939 NC wins some tests. It all depends on what you want you computer to do for you. I can't see someone going wrong going with either system
People spending $650 for 3800+ and $200 for 939 mobo are seriously retarded in my book. Yes, 3800+ outperforms 3700+ in SuperPi due to dual channel, and yes, it probably reaches a bit higher speeds than clawhammers, but are you gonna spend your life by running sunthetic benchmarks or actually playing games ?! In 3d games, theyre either neck to neck or 3700>3800(q3 engine based games)! Games NEED that extra cache. If you didnt realize that by now then youre prolly not a gamer. NOt to mention that 939 mobos need to mature a bit (LOT).
3700+(1Mb L2 Cache)+vnf3-250 = $585
3800+(512 Kb L2 Cache) +Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP-939 =$870
Go figure.
Calling someone a retard is pretty strong and why do it unless you're so insecure about your purchase that you need to make others feel small to justify what you bought. If you felt comfortable in what you bought you just be happy and not have the need to bash anyone. Of course if I owed that Chaintech you have and bought my 3700+ when it cost almost as much as an FX, I'd be pretty defensive myself. But even with that I'd just enjoy my computer, play my games and let everyone else enjoy their's. Insulting anothers purchase just makes you look jealous that you don't have something that they have
Well your figures are skewed. You state caches is SOOO important. Doom3 benches show that yes cache wins, but it's not 30fps, it's about 1-2 at most.Quote:
Originally posted by milan03
People spending $650 for 3800+ and $200 for 939 mobo are seriously retarded in my book. Yes, 3800+ outperforms 3700+ in SuperPi due to dual channel, and yes, it probably reaches a bit higher speeds than clawhammers, but are you gonna spend your life by running sunthetic benchmarks or actually playing games ?! In 3d games, theyre either neck to neck or 3700>3800(q3 engine based games)! Games NEED that extra cache. If you didnt realize that by now then youre prolly not a gamer. NOt to mention that 939 mobos need to mature a bit (LOT).
3700+(1Mb L2 Cache)+vnf3-250 = $585
3800+(512 Kb L2 Cache) +Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP-939 =$870
Go figure.
Plus you compare prices on one of the cheapest 754 board and by far the most expensive 939 board. Take off $100 from that for the Asus or Abit and that's more realistic. BTW enjoy your 512mb of ram. Should offer nice perfromance in future games. I'll enjoy my 248mhz 1:1 ram clock with 1gb of ram.
Pkrew is right. Either setup is fast. I wouldn't start to bash anyone here for their decisions, but for some reason people seem to want to push all their opinions on everyone else as if they are gospel.
More realistically your looking at $650 for a 3700+ and a good board. About $750 for a 3800+ and a board. At stock the 3700+ should win majority of benches. I give you that. Oc'd it's a crapshoot to see which oc's farther and at what ram speeds etc... I think it just depends on how high each one goes and how optimized the system. I doubt either one will be slow. I think it mainly depends on if the dual channel is worth the $100 to you and quite possibly is a bit slower. Nothing you'd probably notice in benching, but probably better upgrade path in future.
according to pricewatchQuote:
Originally posted by milan03
People spending $650 for 3800+ and $200 for 939 mobo are seriously retarded in my book.
3700+(1Mb L2 Cache)+vnf3-250 = $585
3800+(512 Kb L2 Cache) +Gigabyte GA-K8NSNXP-939 =$870
3700+(1Mb +fan)=520.00
vnf3-250 = 79.00
Total = 599.00
3800+(512Kb +fan)= 637.00
A8V deluxe =135.00
Total = 772.00
comparing mobo apples to apples
754 asus via 102.00
939 asus via 135.00
754 Gigabyte 175.00
939 gigabyte 219.00
just some pricing facts enjoy your day
I agree calling people retards was a bit to harsh, and I appolagize for that, but i just cant understand why people spend $150-200 for so little extra?! Is it because its of a new, (supposed to be) hot socket 939? Why not just getting FX then?!
with my setup i hapily run 10.5x255 1:1 24/7 on air and im pretty happy about it. Not trying to justify anything here. Pretty sure ill be able to hit close to 3Ghz once i get my Phase Change.
I think it's all a matter of preference. Hell some people spend a ton on intel setups and go much much slower :p. For me I'll readily admit there are applications and games that the NC core will lose slightly to the CH core on. Yes 939 is more $$$. My reason for going 939 and replacing my 754's is I could never get a good oc'ing core for one, #2 I could never oc well with 2x512mb at 1:1 ram speed. My 1st 939 was a FX and yes it's fast, but in what I use it for not enough faster to justify the price difference. I didn't pay full price for my 3800+ and basically payed about $525 or so for mine. I may very well try out a 3700+ and a DFI 754 board, but no 754 board out now is that appealing to me. I use PC cooling and want a good fast board, easily vcore and vdimm moddable. So far I don't see a great board out, although the chaintech temps me a bit.
Also, I think that with your 3700+ at 2670mhz aircooled, assuming that's 24/7 stable prime, I think that another 300mhz or so is realistic expectation(at least in my experiences). So that's about 3ghz and you may clear that depending on how good your core is :)
No problem, we all get excited from time to time. You have a real nice rig. One to be proud of. Good luck on 3gQuote:
Originally posted by milan03
I agree calling people retards was a bit to harsh, and I appolagize for that, but i just cant understand why people spend $150-200 for so little extra?! Is it because its of a new, (supposed to be) hot socket 939? Why not just getting FX then?!
with my setup i hapily run 10.5x255 1:1 24/7 on air and im pretty happy about it. Not trying to justify anything here. Pretty sure ill be able to hit close to 3Ghz once i get my Phase Change.
Woohooo!!!! Some sanity speaking! Not that some of you other guys haven't made sense either, but this post is the truth in a nutshell. Everyone has their own justification for their own purchase, as it should be. Some strong points are made in these justifications and shows clearly everyone has their own set of priorities. I've been seriously annoyed by that 1 member that just won't acknowledge this fact, and would've ignored this thread long ago if you other guys hadn't continued posting your own thoughts on the issue.Quote:
Originally posted by pkrew
Wow, this thread deteriated. I voted even. I think that clock for clock the s754 CL wins some tests and the s939 NC wins some tests. It all depends on what you want you computer to do for you. I can't see someone going wrong going with either system
FWIW, I'm personally going s754 Clawhammer with the reasoning that I am only looking at a short term A64 solution until .09 FX-xx hits the streets so this will be more cost effective and has less uncertainty with the mobo's.
Yeah me 2, I'm jumping FX when the .09 stuff comes out :)
JNav, chunkylover, any benches ? ;)
sorry
have machine tore down for mods
be up in a day or 2
LilGator
here is what I have to bench with
lmk what you want
3800+ Abit AV8 2x512mb Hardcorecooling BH-5, 6800GT, XP all cheese, DX9C
FX53 Asus A8V 2x512mb OCZ PC3500EB 9800Pro(till XT PE comes in), XP all cheese, DX9C(i think)
Quote:
Originally posted by pik-ard v1.1
it was anti intel. the owner of this website works for intel. do the math. (just my theory)
whats his website again?
Thats NOT why it was removed.
3800+ / 6800GT should be a good compare with Chunky's 3400+/6800U.Quote:
Originally posted by JNav89GT
LilGator
here is what I have to bench with
lmk what you want
3800+ Abit AV8 2x512mb Mushkin Level I, 6800GT, XP all cheese, DX9C
FX53 Asus A8V 2x512mb OCZ PC3500EB 9800Pro(till XT PE comes in), XP all cheese, DX9C(i think)
Of course not. That's the reason it got noticed, but not the reason it got removed. And I am not the reason masterofpuppets had to remove his piss on AMD64 sig, but I was the reason he got noticed.:lol:Quote:
Originally posted by Karnivore
Thats NOT why it was removed.
http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=8048517
Can it be that Storm was not out of his mind afterall? Of couse not. I'm sure you guys can spin OPP's results so that your worship of Newcastles and S939 can continue. Too bad OPP is not as knowledgible as you guys.:ROTF:
no.Quote:
Originally posted by pik-ard v1.1
it was anti intel. the owner of this website works for intel. do the math. (just my theory)
mop updated his sig to a guy peeing on an a64 logo, then storm changed his sig to a guy crapping on an intel logo.
we decided that the sigs were a bit over the edge and pulled both.
geez calm down guys, does it look to you like xs is making intel look better than amd?
Excellent idea on this thread LilGator :toast:
Once results start to come in it will be very interesting to see the trends
I dont own either setup so this is jus my thoughts but I think the 754 will scale better as the memory frequency goes up... but I voted "About Equal" because from reviews I've seen the difference seems to be within a margin of error.
Reason I think 754 will scale better as RAM speed rises is that the 939's advantage over 754 is so much more memory bandwidth potential... but the CPU can only use so much bandwidth before the speed increases yield less and less benefits. The 754 has more to gain from increased bandwidth seeing as that's what it lacks in comparison to the 939... jus my opinion, wish I could contribute to this thread.
ok sounds goodQuote:
Originally posted by LilGator
3800+ / 6800GT should be a good compare with Chunky's 3400+/6800U.
My asus and FX combo is flakey after I Modded board and took off spreader so I gotta iron out that combo :(
what you want? Stock speeds on everything? And what benches, 3dmark 2k1, 2k3, and aquamark. What about DoomIII demo1? Oh and I assume default LOD on everything.
thanks
1x256 Mushkin Level II,, OCZ DDR Power Booster,,
269MHz,,2-2-5Cas2,,,
ATI Radeon X800XT 789/676
I bet those two things have ALOT to do with his score too.
crank a 3500/3800 to 3228MHz coupled with two 256K sticks at 269 2-2-2-5 + his VC then it would be flying too.
since its only a processor swap i'd love to see what kind of #s OPP could pull with a 939 NC just to see the differences between the NC and FX.
well I doubt it would get within 2-3k of Opps score w/NC. Don't get me wrong. I like the 939 NC setup. I don't think storm is very fair in his assessment that it's slow. But in 2001SE you need the cache, plain and simple. Since he bases his computing power decision making almost exclusively on that one benchmark, then I guess yes it is slower, but not SLOW.
I think that score pretty much speaks volumes for the immaturity of 939 boards and of what little value the added bandwidth is for this one benchmark. I have no doubt that my 3800+ will probably get whipped in 2k1 by a 3700+ and maybe even very close with a 3400+. That said, there are many other things my 3800+ can do very very well and in some things mhz matters on A64. Now I know storm likes to say that I should get a P4 then. Well that's diff mhz then buddy. Remember back when bartons dropped and a 2800+ barton got beat in certain apps by 2800+ tbred. Why b/c of mhz still matter more than cache in certain apps. Pretty much same core, just more mhz vs more cache. Not more mhz with crappy 100 stage pipleline vs uber pimp design. J/K there, but you get the point.
That's not S939, that's S754 so it isn't just a processor swap. Have you even seen one (1) 3500+/3800+ clock at 3.2GHz ? Even if it could, it would be thousands of points behind, so it would be pointless...Quote:
Originally posted by iboomalot
1x256 Mushkin Level II,, OCZ DDR Power Booster,,
269MHz,,2-2-5Cas2,,,
ATI Radeon X800XT 789/676
I bet those two things have ALOT to do with his score too.
crank a 3500/3800 to 3228MHz coupled with two 256K sticks at 269 2-2-2-5 + his VC then it would be flying too.
since its only a processor swap i'd love to see what kind of #s OPP could pull with a 939 NC just to see the differences between the NC and FX.