Give us some pictures of a prototype; That way we can give you some decent feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tt Enthusiasts
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Give us some pictures of a prototype; That way we can give you some decent feedback.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tt Enthusiasts
I noticed, that pretty much all dedicated "water cooling" cases on the market are oversized. People often confuse these two things. If someone wants water colling case, it doesn't have to be dual cpu/ quad gpu rig.. And same time all these cases are exceptionally ugly, just large boxes just with space for 10 radiators. It has to be balanced.
Currently most popular case for not extreme water coolin rig is obsidian 800/700d, that has mounting for just one 360 radiator, and gets moded, usually cut top for 480 radiator, and people put another 240 rad at the floor. That shows average user needs more radiator space, but not really more than 2x 360, or 480+240. Both of these sets easily fir to corsair 800d (with little modding), or no modding to TJ07. That is enough for sli rigs. Almost nobody needs huge case like caselabs or mountain mods (even people who buy them).
Another thing which i dislike is the toolless design in cases. It became a "must have" feature, so product will always get another "+" in review. While it doesn't really make sense. It is always a trade for quality, let's not fool ourselves. Cheap ugly plastic versus good old metal screws. The weirdest part here is - if person decides to go for water cooling, it takes many hours to assembly even quite simple rig. What difference would thta make to use a couple of screws or thumbscrews for 5,25 bays?.. really. But yet, most companies have to put these squishy toolless design plastic systems in their cases and show how cool and userfriendly they are. I think more people would appreciate quality - nice polished thumb screws. Less plastic elements in the case - the better.
Same goes for rubber grommets for tubing. These days pretty much every case has this and can be market as "water cooling friendly". Seriously, what % of users will just stick raw tubing out of the case through some rubber outlets? Era of ghetto mods is gone, people use fittings these days. Well placed tubing holes - yes, but designed for fittings.
In my humble opinion, the ideal watercooling case would be something like TJ07 with few modifications:
1) Make upper chamber a bit taller (1 or 2 cm) to have space for a rad of normal thickness on top of the case above the MB;
2) Make pre-cut hole for 3x120 (or 2x140) rad on top of the case;
3) Add few mounting points for 2.5 drives on the sides of 5.25 bays;
4) Get rid of useless 3.5 front drive bay for additional 5.25 bay and just supply 5.25 to 3.5 converter panel;
5) Make the case a little wider for easier cable routing behind the MB and easier dual rads placement in the bottom chamber;
6) Add cut-outs to MB tray for CPU backplate and cable routing;
7) Make mesh grilles more sparse;
8) Paint case internals in black;
This. +10. Well said. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by aerial
I think that the Corsair Obsidian 800D would have been a perfect water cooling case... if only it didn't have those bottom hard drive bays. If you cut them out (and some people do) you'd be able to get a 240 in the bottom along with the 360 in the top. As well as that, the 120mm horizontal fan mount on the chamber wall is ideal for mounting a pump. I'm not sure if it has reservoir mounting holes next to the motherboard - but if it did and it also ditched the lower HDD bays, the 800D would be a great case for water cooling.
zulu9812: It's easy enough to remove bottom hdd enclosure @800D. For me for 800D to be ideal they should make bottom compartment few cm higher, PSU vertical on side akin TJ07 and 3cm longer. Then i'd be able with ease mount in it two 4x140 rads internally with little modding :P.
Something like this would be nice... with an adapter for HDD's (like the 4x drives to 3x 5.25" bays)
There you could get 2x 360's in the bottom and choose from a bay res pump combo or ddc with tube reservoir etc etc...
http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/b...on/concept.jpg
If it were Bex variant, i'd change mATX to ATX as most common enthusiast targeted board factor (small as possible is good, but if in niche ATX is more common then mATX? - so make it small/compact as possible, but not TOO small to impose limits), and rads not side by side, but one on side and another on case bottom floor, with exhaust from both to another side.
Why ATX? With LC, people have fit three high-end cards on a mATX-and gains past that unless for server setups or folding/crunching are minor.
Why not press the companies to make us better mATX since we know it can be done?
Why all the love for the 5.25" bays? I haven't had an optical drive in my main PC for 5 years. Externals, for as infrequently as they are needed, are more than adequate. If this was an HTPC oriented WC case, sure...it isn't thought...correct? If bling bling displays are what you want, why not ask for them to be integrated? Personally, all those huge space consuming bays just get in my way. A reasonable number of internal only set of 3.5" bays (3-4 maybe) and a similar number of 2.5" bays, both with 120mm fans bringing in cool air and with the option to remove either would be exactly what I'd want.
--Matt
Why ATX? Just summarizing what on average i've seen in miscellaneous LC builds @XS. Yes there been some nice SFF builds, builds with mATX or even smaller then that. BUT, the majority of builds is made up of something along the lines of evga classy x58 and alikes.
Yes, there is lack of well fit for LC SFF cases, but that's imho NOT where the big volume/money is. If manufacturer takes up challenge to produce product for niche (and despite what we might think, LC is just a small niche compared to volume of generic air cooled builds), to design it for even smaller niche would be .. bad investment at very least i'd say.
mattkosem: love for 5.25? @LC you can already very easily waste 4 of such on DVD/fan controller/2*5.25 bayres.
But in general, imho lot of 5.25 bays (preferably whole front of case) is how very easy it can be converted to something else. Some bay devices/some 3.5 disk enclosures/extra fan inserts and so on, with great flexibility of available configuration options .. it's not so easy to convert specialised bays/enclosures other way around, but 5.25 to those - with ease.
I agree but I think one or two at most would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkosem
I will see what I can provide as soon as possible, as im sure you can understand during development stage alot of information cannot be provided for obvious reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by matari
Thank you for the feedback guys, this is not going into the abyss just remember taht everyones idea of an ideal case will differ in one way or another so please feel free to share your unique ideas.
Instead of trying to cobble together a bunch of eclectic ideas from water cooling enthusiasts who all want different things you could just have me or one of the other high end modders design you a case .... would be a lot more successful.
for a contracting compensation of course.
better yet, get a forum together of the top case mod designers and pay a consulting fee for a brainstorm session.
Having thought about this again there is really a need for 2 cases. One for people like me who have gone watercooled because it is just a lot quieter and a second one for the extreme fans.
The simpler version: Quiet PC lovers want to get rid of fans so the aim is to watercool the GPU, CPU and possible RAM (I have fried RAM in my TJ07 before) anything else is pointless. Lets assume this means cooling an i7, 580 or maybe 2x560Ti (or AMD equivalent) and 4 sticks of RAM. 2 Phobya 200 rads could do that or a 360 + 240 maybe even dual 240s or 280s if thick. I would look at the new Fractal Arc midi for design clues - give it a better front and ability to have a dual 240 thick rad in front amd please some decoupling on the optical drive bay and you have a winning design.
The extreme brigade need much more. Make the case wide (250mm) two reasons can mount twin 200x200 rads sideways in front, turn the PSU right angles to normal orientation will be much better for cable management. Assuming case is 550-600 tall there is room for a 3rd radiator up top, 2 maybe3 5.25 bays above the front rads and room at bottom of case for some HDs
I think I would like to see someone attempt a thicker (or is that wider?) case that could mount 3 triple rads plus shrouds and 38mm fans on the door side but, and here is the rub, to effectively get this right I think the door hinge needs to be somewhat over-engineered and incorporate fluid transfer from chassis to door.... a sort of heavy duty rotary fitting/hinge.
more room behind the MB tray.
no plastic if poss
no bare metal
simple clean lines
prefer psu at bottom of case
or u could have 2 side doors on one side, so u can mount to the smaller door on the top or bottom and that way it dose not open/move the rad when u open the main case region. or have hangers/floor mounts and a vent on the side panel.
Hmm, I remember the days of CM Stackers ruling the galleries and buildlogs (I'm sure you do too ;)) and seeing them all with at least a 3 x 120 of some sort (usually a TC PA) stuffed in the front pulling in fresh air through the mesh of the drive bay covers. . .what happened to those days? :wasntme:Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkosem
I see a good deal of the current ATX builds going on as an extension of epeen envy or one ups manship. Everyone seem to have the mindset that you need to go bigger or better than the last guy, that's why the cases seem to keep getting bigger...because they keep getting packed with more and more gear that's complete overkill so they can get a decent OC with unbelievably low temps or good Furmark numbers only to tear it down and start the whole silly process over again in 2-3 weeks (one is a very good example of this in particular). . .it's pathetically sad really. :shakes: Why can't ppl build it and enjoy using it for a while?Quote:
Originally Posted by churchy
Because some of us enjoy the building of it more than using it. I know I do, which is why mine changes so often. Some days I like the idea of a big case like my MM Ascension and other days I like the idea of my tech bench, but mostly I like to see what I can do with them and the performance difference I can get from running various equipment. It would be like saying to Kingpin, why do you keep overclocking you setup, can't you just enjoy it? Not everyone here is about epeen, just like not everyone here wants the blingiest build they can come up with or the biggest or smallest. We all have different goals and to chastise everyone just because they do not agree with your idea of what is ideal makes you no better than others that have gotten booted from here. I am not sure what has gotten into you lately that you seem to be bitter any time someone comes on here and wants to do a huge build, maybe they just want to enjoy going big, ever consider that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
To elaborate on the external radbox idea. Its a great idea. Ever since swiftech made the rad box that enabled you to hang a rad off the back that couldnt normally fit in the case was a great idea. The problem I had was that all the hot air would get pushed to the back of the case and then intake into the rad box. you could reverse the fans and start at the rad box but then you have hot air blowing out the front of the case. if i were going to design a new water cooling case there would be no leds or stupid gaudy blue lights and silver crap. it would be like a black box. mysterious with no huge decals or logos just like a stealth bomber. Mysterious is the key. also you know a drive rail idea. well take the drive rail to a new level with a "Rad Rail" Basically make a radbox that you could have externally or you could slide into the top of the case through the back where the power supply would normally go. have a cover on the the top that had mesh underneath so you could remove the cover and slide the box through the rad rails and you have the rest of the world copying your design. keep a wall at the top of the case that has the same pullout barrier with mesh on the bottom so you could keep the air from bleeding into the main case without interfering with the air flow direction in the rest of the case. Maybe make the same rail system in the front of the case with that you could drop down off the top of the case if you wanted to mount it in the front. allow enough room for push pull so it can accommodate fans on both sides of the rad. or extra room in case you have a shroud. anyone?
I love my Cosmos S.Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
The ten 5.25" drive bays is nice, along with the 3x120 double thick rad in the top with a full 6 fan push/pull config without having the fans on the outside of the case and was a major selling point for me (the fan cover basically). Then, on the bottom, there is an 120mm fan cut out, although it's not ideal placement because it's been offset from the drive bay rails so the hole doesn't line up perfectly with a 2x120mm rad. You can stick a double thick 2x120mm rad with a four fan push/pull config easily down here with 2 of the fans underneath the case. Or a 6 fan swiftech dual stack rad.
For improvements on the Cosmos S, 10 or 11 PCI slots for those who want to do SR-2 (or it's successor) builds and 2 or more 5.25" drive bays so you can fit the 3-4 extra PCI slots. Fix the bottom fan alignment to make it more rad friendly, add a second fan in the drive bay area, and possibly add 140mm compatibility. Make the top 3x140mm rad compatible (or 4x140mm if possible) and/or holes for a 4x120mm rad.
For it to be considered a water cooling case, IMO, it needs to have a bottom/top passage just like the Silverstone TJ07/TJ11. That is, ability for air to get in/out without ever going anywhere near the actual computer components. So a mesh on BOTH sides, with small cutouts at the top/bottom for the hoses/cables to come through. But I will NEVER buy a case that mounts rads on top/front/back and either uses hot air inside the case to cool the radiator or blows hot air from the radiator inside the case onto my components
Finally found that thread with similar question to this one.