New Koolance *Dual DDC* Bay Reservoir! (RP-402X2)

Thanks for the image Martin.

However, it doesn't make clear whether or not if, in series, the first pump will pump into the second pump's reservoir chamber or directly into the second pump inlet, though it appears it might be the former. The reason I ask is because it would then require that the second reservoir chamber is completely full (ie. no air) to ensure maximum transference of pressure / flow gain. Otherwise, it would be like one pump pumping into the reservoir that leads to a second pump - I may be wrong, but won't you lose some of the pressure gain in doing this?

Would it not be better by going in series and have one pump pump directly into the inlet of the second, rather than the chamber that feeds it? Isn't this the main reason why the XSPC res top does better than other res tops - because the pump pumps into its own inlet via that tube down the middle?

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Originally Posted by Johmem

Thanks for the picture :D thats how I understood it to work, although the rep seems to be contradicting that, and the manual has not much to say about it at all.:shrug:

All I want to know before I order one, is how much better it performs than a DDC/XSPC res top, to make sure its worth buying another pump.

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Yeah, I also want to know how it performs compared with the XSPC DDC res's. I'm using a XSPC right now. It's good and all, but the glue that XSPC uses in these res's smells so bed.

It would be nice if Koolance can show us the internal flow paths of the res. And since the pumps are mounted to the sides of the res instead of bottom, it's easy to accidentally run the pumps dry during iniial filling.

Seeming as i have 2x ddc pumps im not quite sure to run tem in 2 separate loops seeming as the reservoir handles both single and dual loops.. Loops will be quite restrictive with 2x gpus, Full chipset/mosfet/Ram.. Still thinking of Serial though..

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Originally Posted by CedricFP

Thanks for the image Martin.

However, it doesn't make clear whether or not if, in series, the first pump will pump into the second pump's reservoir chamber or directly into the second pump inlet, though it appears it might be the former. The reason I ask is because it would then require that the second reservoir chamber is completely full (ie. no air) to ensure maximum transference of pressure / flow gain. Otherwise, it would be like one pump pumping into the reservoir that leads to a second pump - I may be wrong, but won't you lose some of the pressure gain in doing this?

Would it not be better by going in series and have one pump pump directly into the inlet of the second, rather than the chamber that feeds it? Isn't this the main reason why the XSPC res top does better than other res tops - because the pump pumps into its own inlet via that tube down the middle?

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Well Series always runs better as it gives more pressure running 2x DDC's.. Martin has done a test and the curves running 2x 355s were great compare to one.. With serial you run both pumps together so its 1 big pump, Noticed also using this res that when running serial you cant use dual loop meaning you cant have 2 different colours dyes only single ddc setups would be ideal for dual..

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Originally Posted by Johnny87au

Well Series always runs better as it gives more pressure running 2x DDC's.. Martin has done a test and the curves running 2x 355s were great compare to one.. With serial you run both pumps together so its 1 big pump, Noticed also using this res that when running serial you cant use dual loop meaning you cant have 2 different colours dyes only single ddc setups would be ideal for dual..

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Yes, I know that.

But when you think of typical dual DDC series, one pump pumps into the inlet of the other.

With this bayres/pump combo, I'm wondering if the fact that the first DDC seems to pump into the res chamber feeding the DDC will have any impact on flow rate - namely, a diminishing of the flow rate when compared with two DDC's with just normal tops or XSPC res tops.

I'm only guessing here, but it seems that the first pump pumping into the second pump's res chamber will have maximal effect only if the second res chamber is completely filled. Even then, it seems like it will loose that little bit of extra pressure / flow you get by pumping straight into a second pump's inlet...

Example:


Pump 1 Outlet -----------> ---------------> Pump 2 Inlet (traditional series dual DDC)


Pump 1 outlet --------------> ---------> Res chamber --feed--> Pump 2 inlet (RP-402X2)

Am I completely wrong here?

If you look at martin's pics one pump does feed into the other, which is series.. Similar to the dual bay xspc reservoir i've owned and never had any real issues..

Will need some testing, but I don't think the res filled amount matters as long as it's adequate to prevent air from pulling out the outlet. I suppose there might be some frictional energy loss dumping into a reservoir, but the pressure energy remains regardless.

I also think you'll get roughly the same thing with separate pumping loops but shared reservoir. I personally would probably keep two loops and just share the reservoir to maximize CPU flow rates. The only real benefit to series is to have redundant pumping. With an rpm sensor, it's pretty simple to connect that to the cpu fan header and set a shutdown rpm.

Anyhow, I don't know much about these...just speculating.

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Originally Posted by Johnny87au

If you look at martin's pics one pump does feed into the other, which is series.. Similar to the dual bay xspc reservoir i've owned and never had any real issues..

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Yes, but that looks like an inlet to the res that feeds the pump, rather than the pump inlet itself - if you look at testing for restops for a single DDC, you'll see that the XSPC res top always comes out on top because of that little tube which dumps water straight into the inlet of the pump. I would assume the same logic would apply to dual pumps - pumping into inlet is better for flow/pressure than pumping into res chamber that feeds inlet.

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Will need some testing, but I don't think the res filled amount matters as long as it's adequate to prevent air from pulling out the outlet. I suppose there might be some frictional energy loss dumping into a reservoir, but the pressure energy remains regardless.

I also think you'll get roughly the same thing with separate pumping loops but shared reservoir. I personally would probably keep two loops and just share the reservoir to maximize CPU flow rates. The only real benefit to series is to have redundant pumping. With an rpm sensor, it's pretty simple to connect that to the cpu fan header and set a shutdown rpm.

Anyhow, I don't know much about these...just speculating.

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Will certainly need testing, I agree. I see this as essentially being the same as running 2 pumps in series but having pump 1 dump water into a reservoir that feeds pump 2 - which is something nobody has really tested before because there hasn't been any reason to. As for benefits of series, don't the older EK Supreme's benefit a lot from the extra pressure?

Anyways Tim from Koolance, sorry for the derailing the thread slightly. I'm just very interested in these small details that are, from a max-OC/temp standpoint, largely inconsequential.

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Originally Posted by CedricFP

Yes, but that looks like an inlet to the res that feeds the pump, rather than the pump inlet itself - if you look at testing for restops for a single DDC, you'll see that the XSPC res top always comes out on top because of that little tube which dumps water straight into the inlet of the pump. I would assume the same logic would apply to dual pumps - pumping into inlet is better for flow/pressure than pumping into res chamber that feeds inlet.



Will certainly need testing, I agree. I see this as essentially being the same as running 2 pumps in series but having pump 1 dump water into a reservoir that feeds pump 2 - which is something nobody has really tested before because there hasn't been any reason to. As for benefits of series, don't the older EK Supreme's benefit a lot from the extra pressure?

Anyways Tim from Koolance, sorry for the derailing the thread slightly. I'm just very interested in these small details that are, from a max-OC/temp standpoint, largely inconsequential.

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Sure, if you were looking to run dual/series for just the cpu block, two pumps in series will give you double pressure or about 30% more flow rate and a hair better temps with adequate rad.

I was just thinking in terms of a full cpu/gpu system..one big loop with pumps in series vs breaking it up into two loops but sharing the reservior will probaly give you roughly the same thing. Only difference is you could selectively balance or unbalance pumping power between parts. I would probably keep it separate and spoil the cpu with a pump to itself and just share the reservoirs.

Testing will sort out the performance questions..not sure.

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

I would probably keep it separate and spoil the cpu with a pump to itself and just share the reservoirs.

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I think this is quite sensible because then you'd benefit from the extra rad of one component when its not in use.

IE - GPU not at load but CPU at load with a shared res allows the CPU to benefit from the GPU rad cooling the coolant, as far as the extent to which the coolant is shared goes.

There are a number of different ways to connect these units as Martin has kindly illustrated. He and Skinnee are receiving units for review.

We've got a smaller air shipment estimated to arrive on Feb 3. Make sure to visit our site as soon as you get the email confirmation (if on the notify list) as these will sell out, too. Then it's about 14-20 days until the next shipment arrives.

Tim

cool idea

$120 bit steep?

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Originally Posted by dinos22

cool idea

$120 bit steep?

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For a solid piece of machined acetal, I don't think so. If it was a traditional acrylic/epoxied dual 5.25" reservoir, perhaps (that's cheaper, but less reliable).

Tim

How about flow/pressure test compared with popular aftermarket tops?
Those volutes (at least the one pictured in the OP) look like simple circles with a relief cut. Not the best performing type of volute IIRC.

Obviously this res isn't intended to directly compete with aftermarket tops, but it would be interesting to see the numbers. It could make the difference between tops and a tube res and this one for a lot of people (well, for me).

I will be reveiwing this reservoir along with the Koolance tops and reservoirs with a noise and elbow/system configurations emphasis. This is not at all a pump top shootout, but it will compare bay reservoir vs stand alone top v stand alone top with reservoir. If all goes well, I should start this testing this weekened and have at least something to share within the next week or so. Parts should arrive today..:)

Nice to see a few in stock. I think it's a really good option and low cost if you compare what it would cost for 2 tops and 2 reservoirs. A huge non monetary cost is space, and this takes up little space compared to separate pieces.

I like the way this looks, like a solid piece of awesome.

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

I will be reveiwing this reservoir along with the Koolance tops and reservoirs with a noise and elbow/system configurations emphasis. This is not at all a pump top shootout, but it will compare bay reservoir vs stand alone top v stand alone top with reservoir. If all goes well, I should start this testing this weekened and have at least something to share within the next week or so. Parts should arrive today..:)

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Cant wait mate! Bay res vs standalone EK multioption reservoirs for example..

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Originally Posted by Johnny87au

Cant wait mate! Bay res vs standalone EK multioption reservoirs for example..

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I've got the Koolance equivalent and then some...everything I need to evaluate a plethora of different pumping configurations and mounting options. I had planned to do a combination of standard pumps through pumps with tops and the newer reservoir tops. Also an emphasis on mounting methods, elbow effects on pumps, and noise in general. Koolance also sent both voltage controllers/transformers so I'll get a chance to tweak voltages from 7-24V (PMP450 pumps) and also for the first time get a chance to play with the PMP-450 "Strong" model and compare it to the vario. Also can compare the pump top vs the pump top with reservoir directly to see the effects of reservoir placement. All sorts of little pumping details that I've wanted to explore for a long time now..

Going to be busy on this for a while...:clap:

I spent all evening just admiring the quality bits I get to play with over the next several weeks.

Got a couple of snaps done is all, but I plan to dig in this weekend. Soo many options and alternatives to explore......:D

I've also been working with skinnee to start publishing some of my newer tests on his site which is cool...Cheers! Martin

Great.
Will it be in the new LC data Subforum :yepp:

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Originally Posted by thegcpu

Great.
Will it be in the new LC data Subforum :yepp:

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I'll put it anywhere you guys want...:D

Very glad to have you on SL Martin!! :up:

love the new look Skinnee!!:up:

Thanks, still some work to be done (isn't there always) though. Lots of new features too, registered users get notified when we publish, able to enter contests, etc.

Sorry for the OT, but I did get the RP-402X2 today as well and will start testing tomorrow when I get home from work. I have a dedicated pump bench to break in after all. :)

edit: The RP-452x2 actually comes first... then the RP-402X2.

Tim, will you guys be selling bases without feet? I don't feel comfortable cutting the feet off my DDC 3.25's myself.

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Originally Posted by Martinm210

Got a couple of snaps done is all, but I plan to dig in this weekend. Soo many options and alternatives to explore......:D

I've also been working with skinnee to start publishing some of my newer tests on his site which is cool...Cheers! Martin

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Sweet, looking forward to this!

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Originally Posted by Amuro

Tim, will you guys be selling bases without feet? I don't feel comfortable cutting the feet off my DDC 3.25's myself.

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Email tech at koolance dot com and they can likely find one for you to purchase. The pump motor/impeller and PCB come completely out of the original plastic base when disassembled, so that's the safest way to cut the feet rather than risk damaging any important parts.

Tim