Nvidia confirms the GTX 580

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10-23-2010, 09:38 AM
Dimitriman

Snowman, who cares if its a rebrand? as long as it brings MORE performance then its fine for a 2010 product. A true rebrand is when you add nothing not even performance and call it next gen.
If it matches Cayman, I think nvidia can call it 580 as they are similar performance class products.
You dont always need to bring new technology to the table. there is no dx12 yet so pure performance is just fine.
10-23-2010, 09:50 AM
Tuvok-LuR-

nVidia will make a GPU, what a news!
10-23-2010, 09:55 AM
Sam_oslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

so there's an old and a new 40nm .... LOLL

refresh???? rumors or facts .... and what are your proof of such claims .. other then some unproven slide ...

amd did tweak their old architecture alot ... but nvidia didnt yet ... it still needs to be proven ....

Are you trying to say AMD is just re-branding the ''Cayman''? Because it's not a new generation GPU. Per definition you need a shrink (22nm) to call it new generation. what's it if it's not refresh?
10-23-2010, 10:02 AM
Sn0wm@n

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Snowman, who cares if its a rebrand? as long as it brings MORE performance then its fine for a 2010 product. A true rebrand is when you add nothing not even performance and call it next gen.
If it matches Cayman, I think nvidia can call it 580 as they are similar performance class products.
You dont always need to bring new technology to the table. there is no dx12 yet so pure performance is just fine.

who cares about rebrands now ???? people were crying foul in the ati threads ... now its ok if its nvidia .... LOLL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

Are you trying to say AMD is just re-branding the ''Cayman''? Because it's not a new generation GPU. Per definition you need a shrink (22nm) to call it new generation. what's it if it's not refresh?

i did say that if nvidia didnt change the architecture and they give it a new generation name its a stinking rebrand node change or not .... amd did change the shader layout and added new blu ray hardware features ... so its a new generation ....
10-23-2010, 10:07 AM
Sam_oslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

who cares about rebrands now ???? people were crying foul in the ati threads ... now its ok if its nvidia .... LOLL

You have been implying re-branding , not me.

Cayman is not new generation, because you need 22nm to call it new generation. You are insisting that it's not a refresh either, so the only other option is a re-branding.

Make you mind, what do you think Cayman is, a refresh or a re-brand?.
10-23-2010, 10:26 AM
Sn0wm@n

a node change doesnt mean a new generation ... wtf is this kind of thinking ????

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

We are not getting new GPus in this round, neither from AMD or nVidia. That would require a shrink (to 22nm) that has been delayed and screwed up both of them. These new cards are not rebrand either, there are refresh based on the "old" architecture.

Therefore, the flexibility of "old" architecture is going to very important in the fight between upcoming high-end cards (Cayman vs GTX 580, or whatever they call then), in my opinion.

a refresh implies some sort of small modification to get the best out of current generation product and a node change doesnt mean a new generation of product .....
10-23-2010, 10:27 AM
ajaidev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

You have been implying re-branding , not me.

Cayman is not new generation, because you need 22nm to call it new generation. You are insisting that it's not a refresh either, so the only other option is a re-branding.

Make you mind, what do you think Cayman is, a refresh or a re-brand?.

I dont think you need a new process to call it the next generation.

Anandtech and other websites rate 48xx to 58xx and 58xx to 68xx as "evolution"

"As Cypress is a direct evolution of the RV770 design, before we talk about what’s new with Cypress we are "

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2841/4

"Barts: The Next Evolution of Cypress"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/a...range-market/2

I agree with Anandtech they are evolutions of the same thing then again Nehalem is a evolution of C2D "Its has common pin work" and Sandy bridge also has its ground's on Nehalem.

EDIT: Also when people say that that Nehalem is not a next generation in respect to C2D but only a evolution it boils my blood. Most people in Intel take the Tick-Rock very very seriously and if some one were to tell them that their Nehalem is not much more than a evolution on Penryn they would flip.
10-23-2010, 10:31 AM
Solus Corvus

I didn't like it when Nvidia renamed their cards. I didn't like it when ATI re-branded their cards. And I won't like it if Nvidia does the same thing again.

But seriously, is that all you guys are going to talk about for the next 30 pages? It's about the most boring, banal, and least important thing anyone could focus on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam_oslo

Cayman is not new generation, because you need 22nm to call it new generation.

This is wrong. A new generation can happen on the same node.
10-23-2010, 10:36 AM
Calmatory

What has AMD re-branded? As far as I can recall, there were some mobile parts renamed from 4xxx to 5xxx under completely different name, as v[4/5]x(x) something? And that was just releasing another product with identical specs of an earlier product, basically just renaming old product as a new one for some obscure reason to a small OEM market.
10-23-2010, 10:38 AM
Sn0wm@n

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calmatory

What has AMD re-branded? As far as I can recall, there were some mobile parts renamed from 4xxx to 5xxx under completely different name, as v[4/5]x(x) something? And that was just releasing another product with identical specs of an earlier product, basically just renaming old product as a new one for some obscure reason to a small OEM market.

that's about the only thing amd rebranded or renamed ....
10-23-2010, 10:41 AM
Solus Corvus

You know what I mean. If you want to argue semantics about it you can do it with a sock puppet because I am quite disinclined.

Of all the things to argue about... :rolleyes:
10-23-2010, 10:46 AM
Nikolasz

I dont mind some one rename or uses diferent numbers for graphics, i only know(read below)

How much money im rdy to spend that much graphics i have :)

I dont buying new stuff i wait fiew munts for stabilise price, then i check whats bad and good on net.
10-23-2010, 10:46 AM
Calmatory

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Corvus

You know what I mean. If you want to argue semantics about it you can do it with a sock puppet because I am quite disinclined.

Of all the things to argue about... :rolleyes:

So the real problem is that AMD actually released slower card under higher number and that change could possibly fool some consumers, but most probably only a handful of people will really feel bad about being dumb customers?

Anyway, they're providing better perf/$ for consumers, and AMD has stated that they try to focus on that segment of market. I agree, it's a partly misleading name, but has nothing to do with re-branding anything, or renaming. They're Nvidia's cake.
10-23-2010, 10:51 AM
Solus Corvus

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calmatory

So the real problem is that AMD actually released slower card under higher number and that change could possibly fool some consumers, but most probably only a handful of people will really feel bad about being dumb customers?

Anyway, they're providing better perf/$ for consumers, and AMD has stated that they try to focus on that segment of market. I agree, it's a partly misleading name, but has nothing to do with re-branding anything, or renaming. They're Nvidia's cake.

I agree with what you are saying in the second paragraph. But do I agree with cynically fooling dumb customers just because they can? Even if the other guys do it too? Even if it never affects me? Even if it only affects a tiny fraction of the customers? Nope.

Can we move on now?
10-23-2010, 10:58 AM
Calmatory

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Corvus

I agree with what you are saying in the second paragraph. But do I agree with cynically fooling dumb customers just because they can? Even if the other guys do it too? Even if it never affects me? Even if it only affects a tiny fraction of the customers? Nope.

Can we move on now?

But you genuinely believe that they did the naming scheme change TO fool dumb customers? I don't think so. They have no reason to resort to such "acts of desperation", as Nvidia.

What is there to be moved on to? If there's someone with some interesting insight, then just wait. Otherwise keep discussing this silly topic like the rest of us. :p:
10-23-2010, 11:00 AM
Sn0wm@n

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solus Corvus

I agree with what you are saying in the second paragraph. But do I agree with cynically fooling dumb customers just because they can? Even if the other guys do it too? Even if it never affects me? Even if it only affects a tiny fraction of the customers? Nope.

Can we move on now?

so who will you buy from .. a company that rebranded ... or the one who gave you a more performance per $ and better performing design for less given they were forced to use the same 40nm node ....

and what will nvidia bring ????? a reworked GF104 ... dual GF104 .... so its easier to call it 580 and mess with the customers out there ...
10-23-2010, 11:21 AM
Dimitriman

Imo renaming/rebranding is done when the exact same product has 2 names.
a product modified to achieve 20% or more performance is not the same product. whether for nvidia or amd.
10-23-2010, 11:35 AM
Sam_oslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajaidev

I dont think you need a new process to call it the next generation.

Anandtech and other websites rate 48xx to 58xx and 58xx to 68xx as "evolution"

"As Cypress is a direct evolution of the RV770 design, before we talk about what’s new with Cypress we are "

http://www.anandtech.com/show/2841/4

"Barts: The Next Evolution of Cypress"

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/a...range-market/2

I agree with Anandtech they are evolutions of the same thing then again Nehalem is a evolution of C2D "Its has common pin work" and Sandy bridge also has its ground's on Nehalem.

EDIT: Also when people say that that Nehalem is not a next generation in respect to C2D but only a evolution it boils my blood. Most people in Intel take the Tick-Rock very very seriously and if some one were to tell them that their Nehalem is not much more than a evolution on Penryn they would flip.

Yeah, "evolution" is a good and covering name.

My point was that, we are not getting a new generation, or re-brands in upcoming round from neither AMD or nVidia. As Sn0wm@n has been trying to speculate on. But per definition, you need a shrink to call it new generation.

Lets call it "evolution"
10-23-2010, 11:50 AM
highoctane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dimitriman

Imo renaming/rebranding is done when the exact same product has 2 names.
a product modified to achieve 20% or more performance is not the same product. whether for nvidia or amd.

Yup, I would agree with this.

I mean depending on how you look at things in the computer tech industry "EVERYTHING" is a rehash scaled up or down rebrand of a base arch.

I think there's too much self righteous harping over rebranding, all that matters is that the price/performance ratio relative to the competition is in line. It can be called the pink tailed dingo 5000, if its price and performance is there why cry about a name even if the underlying arch where 20 years old, if it delivers the performance it doesn't matter.
10-23-2010, 01:10 PM
DilTech

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

that's about the only thing amd rebranded or renamed ....

The x600 was a 9600
The x300 was a 9200 IIRC(I know it was a renamed part, just can't remember which part it was).

Both companies have done rebranding, just NVidia's were better known because they were actually in a sector we care about. :up:

Anyway, until we have more info all we can do is speculate on this, but I'm still willing to wager the part will be somehow based on the GF104. It'd be foolish to base it on the GF100 as most of that cards issues was due to the workstation enhancements, which the GF104 fixed entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Good to see DilTech posting again, pretty much lifting an entire thread out of the dumpster by some good posting rather then ignorant fanboys ruining it. Finally some posts that are actually worth reading. ;)

Yeah, I disappeared for awhile due to picking up another job with MLG in the Tekken subdivision. Right now is a mildly slow period before the season championships where they're paying out over 35 grand in prize money for tekken 6. First place walks out of the building with $12.5k. Going to be insanity for sure.

Anyway, I'll be poking my head in when I can. I just wish more people would think logically about the options on what this card might be rather than just assuming it's a fully unlocked GTX 480.
10-23-2010, 01:28 PM
Sn0wm@n

GF104 based card would make sense ... anyway .. nvidia need to make something to challenge antiles or cayman asap ...
10-23-2010, 01:38 PM
ElSel10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sn0wm@n

who cares about rebrands now ???? people were crying foul in the ati threads ... now its ok if its nvidia .... LOLL

Uhh, what? More like the other way around. Nobody really cares that 5770 replacment will be called the 6870 and that the 6770 will be a rebadged 5770.
10-23-2010, 01:50 PM
Tomasis

6xxx says new generation :) For example, price level lol

I remember i bought 4850 for 150 euros then got annoyed that 5850 was so expensive. now i bought 6850 for same price again.

It can seen be as repositioning from 57xx. I could call it as new generation compared to 57xx, right?

Cayman can be called new generation since it is called 6xxx and is faster than fastest 5xxx

it sounds like intel tick-tock :D

/end of post
10-23-2010, 02:08 PM
Calmatory

Quote:

Originally Posted by DilTech

The x600 was a 9600
The x300 was a 9200 IIRC(I know it was a renamed part, just can't remember which part it was).

From Wikipedia:

Quote:

Also in 2004, ATI released the Radeon X300 and X600 boards. These were based on the RV370 and RV380 GPU respectively. They were nearly identical to the chips used in Radeon 9550 and 9600, only differing in that they were native PCI Express offerings.

and B3D states this for RV380:

Quote:

Similar platform as RV360, with optimised memory bus and native PCI Express

and this for RV370:

Quote:

Similar platform as RV360, but on 110nm process for reduced die costs.

It's a new chip, based on old one. Not a renaming or rebranding.
10-23-2010, 02:38 PM
Sn0wm@n

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElSel10

Uhh, what? More like the other way around. Nobody really cares that 5770 replacment will be called the 6870 and that the 6770 will be a rebadged 5770.

so its official that ati will rebadge the 5770 into a 6770 ??? or is it still rumors ???

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