Guide: Watercooling: The Basics

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Originally posted by stardust
I thought the guide was very well thought out. I think it was stickied for a reason. The guide was made to inform the general public about the comparison's of water cooling components. All those who criticize alpaca, do you feel justified for ruining someone's effort? Forums need informative and unlazy people like Alpaca to put forth the effort to educate newcomers.

I liked the guide and would like the guide to be put back up.

Props Alpaca

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He CLEARLY asked for input, and even if he didn't I would still have commented the same way. The fact it was stickied does NOT make it correct, and beyond reproach! This guide had a specific intended audience (New User). Taking into account the intended audience, and the fact it WAS a sticky, is all the more reason it should be ACCURATE.

I didn't take offense your technical comments. I took offense to the fact that I was being told that I had not done my research, when I had. I've spent months working on this guide. I reposted it. I shouldn't have taken it down. I am sorry. I do NOT want to be called inaccurate by someone who said "handle tec use." regarding the performance of a radiator. That MEANS NOTHING! IT IS COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS! ANYONE CAN GET GOOD TEMPERATURES WITH TEC'S, EVEN WITH A POS RADIATOR! Handle means about the same thing, as "stuff" It is completely meaningless. Did you measure your water temperature? No. Did your water temperature have any effect on your actual temperatures that we could tell? No. I did know about the radiator being sold as part of the Swiftech kit, but I assumed they were simply selling old stock. I have to say, that morons comment is actually the most popular thing in the guide, so it has stayed since the very beginning. You know what, if you do buy a kit after reading everything I've said, for performance reasons, you are a moron. That's all there is to it. If you bought it for price or convenience, that's clearly a different story, as some kits do offer that.

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And why is 3/8" inherently bad? I know plenty of folks running great 3/8" ID systems. Bigger is not always better. A well balanced system is more important than sheer size and flow rate.
Can you please provide proof of the high pressure drop of the 676? Can you point to some reliable testing? I'd like to see that. My experience, and that of quite a few others others is actually to the contrary of what you are saying. Some hard facts would be good.

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Check the thermal-management-testing.com articles, they provide some hard facts for 3/8"

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Your third and fourth points entirely contradict one another. If it takes two 120mm fans to move air over the entirety of the rad, than obviously it has some good surface area.

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I am NOT going to even dignify that with a response. Do some research on radiators, and what, "surface area" means in their case.

Terrible is a relative term, and I've used it as such.

I was more than willing to just let this go had you just reposted your guide and lived in peace. *sigh*, but that's not gonna be the case now is it.

Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
I took offense to the fact that I was being told that I had not done my research, when I had. I've spent months working on this guide.

Posting hearsay as your own opnion is not research... LOL. At best its plagerism. If you spent "months" researching then where is your data? Where are the facts? The testing? How about even a few links to reputable sources? Is there anything in the guide that isn't just your opinion?


I shouldn't have taken it down. I am sorry.

No, you shouldn't have. Instead of getting pissed why don't you spend some time digging into the information provided to you and amend your guide accordngly. Why do you off handidly disregard anything to the contrary of "your opinion" without follow up?

I do NOT want to be called inaccurate by someone who said "handle tec use." regarding the performance of a radiator.

Then please be more accurate so I (we) don't have to tell you about it LOL.

That MEANS NOTHING! IT IS COMPLETELY MEANINGLESS! ANYONE CAN GET GOOD TEMPERATURES WITH TEC'S, EVEN WITH A POS RADIATOR!

Ummm...please...somebody stop you before this gets really embarrassing. Are you sure you want to say this? If you really beleive that radiator performance has no effect on temps, than that is simply frightening. Do some research for godsake before spouting off cause your pissed. In fact, I challenge you to find more than a few people who are running a 226w @15v and a 80w @ 12v in a single loop with a weak rad like a simple BIX and still have good temps when heavily overclocked. We'll assume idle temps under 0c, and loaded staying under ambient. That's what my "POS" 676 could do. I'm sure a single BIX would do better;)

The fact that a radiator can be designated for TEC use (ie it can "handle" it) says a lot about the radiator. Your personal inexperieince is showing badly I'm afraid.

Handle means about the same thing, as "stuff"

No it doesn't. It quite simply means that a given radiator has the capability of dealing with the extreme heat output of TEC blocks for typical use. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm not sure what confuses you about that.

Did you measure your water temperature? No.

Wrong. Sure I did. I've been using TECs for a few years now and I always monitored the water temps of the various systems I've built. You see, I actually have hands on experience with TECs....unlike some others around here ..*cough* *cough* Water temps fluctuated depending on the radiator, flow rates, fans and fan speeds, block design, overclock, TEC PSU voltage and amperage, and more. A rad change alone could easily equate to serious changes of CPU temperature. Most of the time my water ranged from 31c to 38c depending on the system I used.

Did your water temperature have any effect on your actual temperatures

Of course. That's a silly question to ask. Anyone with even a basic knowledge about water cooling and TECs would know that:)

I did know about the radiator being sold as part of the Swiftech kit

Yeah.....right:rolleyes:


I have to say, that morons comment is actually the most popular thing in the guide

Gee, I wonder what that says about your guide:confused:


You know what, if you do buy a kit after reading everything I've said, for performance reasons, you are a moron. That's all there is to it.

Sure...okay. Calling people "morons" is always a nice way to convince them you know what you're talking about:rolleyes:

If you bought it for price or convenience, that's clearly a different story, as some kits do offer that.

Would have been nice if you put that caveat in your guide like I suggested wouldn't it?

I'm done on this thread. I know....you'll be happy about that.

But, before you decide to rip into another frenzy and spout off a bunch of "facts" in a fit of defensiveness, why don't you just step back and look at what I am trying to say here. There are a lot of others here at XS that haven't even bothered to touch this thread. Most likely becuase they wouldn't even know where to begin, nor want to hurt your feelings. So I guess that makes me the bad guy for trying to point out some things you should look into.

Good luck on your "guide":)

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Posting hearsay as your own opnion is not research... LOL. At best its plagerism. If you spent "months" researching then where is your data? Where are the facts? The testing? How about even a few links to reputable sources? Is there anything in the guide that isn't just your opinion?

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I don't post it as my own opinion. I don't say its my opinion. I only say stuff if I trust the source. The water block rankings are from both pHaestus' testing, and overclockers.com waterblock test results. For the pumps, if you do the calculations, there is less than a 1 degree difference between an Eheim 1250 and an MD20RZLT, the lowest performance and highest performance pumps, respectively.
For radiators, I use Bill Adams' performance testing. I admit, I do not have facts for the '72 Chevy Truck without air conditioning, but I believe that there is enough information to go on. The pressure drop is exceedingly low, around 1/4 of that of a Procore, and it is large, and has lots of surface area, and a quality build.

The term handle means nothing. That's all there is to it. We don't know the specifics, so all it means, technically, is that it keeps the water cool enough to keep the hotside of the TEC cool enough to keep the processor within operating temperature. That's all it means. Nothing more.

I guess I was wrong about you measuring water temps, but you didn't post any, so, once again, the results were meaningless.

I meant to say easily noted difference to CPU temps. My mistake.

I assure you, I know what I'm talking about. Maybe you should venture out of XS and into the real world. Say some §§§§ like this in ocforums and they'll set you straight. Make sure you mention that you know exactly what you're talking about.

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Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
I assure you, I know what I'm talking about. Maybe you should venture out of XS and into the real world. Say some §§§§ like this in ocforums and they'll set you straight. Make sure you mention that you know exactly what you're talking about.

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I would appreciate a clarification on this portion of your post. It seems rather insulting, and you seem to be insinuating that members here at XS don't know what they are talking about.

It seems this thread is deteriorating into insults, this is indeed unfortunate.

I'm not saying that, but I am saying that there's a good possibilty that you don't question his posts, since he is "well respected." My first post at ocforums opened my eyes, as the world of watercooling regulars unfolded around me.

This guide should be to explainwhats the watercooling and how to install it, not do some comments.

And XS is mainly "popular" for the great guides. So can ALL the guides all have the same "impact" of explaining and not choosing?

And some guys here have PERSONNALY TESTED some hardware and you dont and youre still "disagree" w/ them:rolleyes:

Can we give peace a chance? I'm trying to learn about the various disciplines of computer cooling here. Isn't team work what it's all about guys.

OCme for president...

seriously guys, take your pissy attitudes to PM, this thread is supposed to be helping people

he obviously put quite alot of work, and if you think it sucks, make your own guide and post it, people can pick which one they likeand use that one

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Originally posted by ocmyface
OCme for president...

seriously guys, take your pissy attitudes to PM, this thread is supposed to be helping people

he obviously put quite alot of work, and if you think it sucks, make your own guide and post it, people can pick which one they likeand use that one

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thread was pretty quiet untill you two arrived from??? xxforums perhaps? I don't care if GOD himself wrote the guide, if facts are NOT represented correctly what use is it? Plenty of opinion elsewhere.. You might also Re-read the part where AngryAlpaca ASKED FOR opinions... Sorry but your out of bounds on this one...

And THANKFULLY this forum is not run by a bunch of NAZI's, Opinions are welcome, flames ARE NOT..

OCmyface: i think karnivore and mzcpa was helping angryalpaca, and not saying this sucks, but angryalpaca looks pretty closed to some help, and thats why it just turned like this.

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Originally posted by AngryAlpaca
I assure you, I know what I'm talking about. Maybe you should venture out of XS and into the real world. Say some §§§§ like this in ocforums and they'll set you straight. Make sure you mention that you know exactly what you're talking about.

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Interesting. You say you know what you're talking about, but you already said you have no personal experience and that all the information contained within the guide comes from the opinions of others. Sorry, but that just won't gel with any discerning person.

Furthermore, XS is a top-notch community with a wealth of experienced users who bring substantial knowledge to this forum making it worthy of its name, and you would do well to avoid insulting its several thousand members. OCforums is a nice place with good mods and admins; I had an account with 2k+ posts there. But if you think the user level of OCforums comes even remotely close to XS, you're quite mistaken.

The bottom line is that guides should not contain outright judgements based on personal value beliefs. Substantiated opinions are fine; however, outright declarations of infeasibility or exclusions of certain products, especially without supporting evidence, are not. That's why we call them guides and not reviews.

It's nice to see effort being put forth in the name of helping others. But hopefully you can understand why many users would be rather put off by your guide from the very beginning.

Hey guys
I'm researching about water cooler to make one for my next computer.
My next computer is going to be an A64(probably 939 if I found it in time)
So I want to know a Pro-Radiator that can perfome good in overclock, not xtreme.(nothing too big, that doesn't fit in a Middle-Tower).
The processor block I found that the WhiteWater is a very good one but you need to do something to put in the A64 Socket.
The pump I dont know to much. I need some suggests.
The reservatory I'm going to by a 4/5 bay one, I think that is enough.
The tubing part I think 3/8 is the best.
The other stuff about WC I dont know too much too, so if someone could help-me It would be good.

Thanks

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Originally posted by Demon_Hunter
Hey guys
I'm researching about water cooler to make one for my next computer.
My next computer is going to be an A64(probably 939 if I found it in time)
1)So I want to know a Pro-Radiator that can perfome good in overclock, not xtreme.(nothing too big, that doesn't fit in a Middle-Tower).
2)The processor block I found that the WhiteWater is a very good one but you need to do something to put in the A64 Socket.
3)The pump I dont know to much. I need some suggests.
4)The reservatory I'm going to by a 4/5 bay one, I think that is enough.
5)The tubing part I think 3/8 is the best.
The other stuff about WC I dont know too much too, so if someone could help-me It would be good.

Thanks

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1) Try and find yourself a heatercore that'd fit your case. They're much cheaper and can devliver superior performance.
2)IIRC you use the mounting bracket and turn it backwards?
3) Eheim 1250 for silence and performance, Swiftech have a nice pump the MCP600 which runs off the 12v line.
4)That seems good
5) 3/8" and 1/2" are the most common around the watercooling area.

Hope this was helpfull.

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Originally posted by kommando
1) Try and find yourself a heatercore that'd fit your case. They're much cheaper and can devliver superior performance.
2)IIRC you use the mounting bracket and turn it backwards?
3) Eheim 1250 for silence and performance, Swiftech have a nice pump the MCP600 which runs off the 12v line.
4)That seems good
5) 3/8" and 1/2" are the most common around the watercooling area.

Hope this was helpfull.

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Hummm I dont have a case yet, but I know that is going to be a middle tower because I really dont like full tower, but I was thinking in something like the Black Ice Xtreme

good write up, certainly learned a little bit.

i think to call everyone who buys a kit a moron though is a bit much. i bought a second hand wetandchilly chips kit off ebay for a lot less than i could build a costum kit and i did my research before i bought it, admitadly its not the best performer in the world but its not bad and it's sure as hell gonna be an improvment on my slk800 in terms of temps and Db. to say people who buy kits that fit in your drive bays are morons would be a little more accurate but i still think you should remove the word moron.

as for addatives would the Purple Ice Radiator Super Coolanton this page here be ok or would i need to add anything else as well to stop stuff growing in it

I have a JR-120 core that worked pretty good in the top of my lian-li case with a shroud and a single Panaflo H1A 120mm fan, but when I wanted more out of my water cooling system I went to my local auto parts Store and went through their catalog of about 300 cores to find a perfect dual core match for my case. I custom made a shroud for it and put two Panaflo H1A 120mm fans on it. The dual core only cost me 19.00 BUX and gave me much better temps 5 degrees above ambient vs. the 7 that
I was getting from my very expensive JR-120. Now that I have went to chilled liquid both my cores are collecting dust.

Hey guys
I wanting to know that a pump like the Eheim 1260 when we use in the WC how to put in the power supply ??? it came with an adaptor or i need to buy one ??

thanks

No one knows ?!?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!!?

see ya

Demon_Hunter, eheim pumps are available in 2 versions

1. 230v
2. 110v

u won`t need an adapter ... u don`t need a (pc) psu to power it if u mean that

danger den sells the 110v vers, of course ... US

X

I'm in the US right now
my question is how to power it, like, if I want my pump to run from the psu, what kind of adapter I need to put in the psu ???

thanks

anyone ? im ordering an eheim pump and starting my water coolling setup for my next case also and would like to know.

eheim 1250 will be the pump, thats the only thing im sure on. does this run from psu? if so where do i get the adapter and what adapter is it.

can i get a link to the best rad to use ? will be cooling cpu/gpu. Will mount it on top of the case probably so size isnt too much of an issue.

is a res a critical item in the loop or will almost any res do as long as there is no leaks ?

1/2 tygon tubbing is best ? ill use that if it is.

:toast:

Thanks for any help in advance.

I would have to say that you are way to hard on the Black Ice pro. There may be better radiators out there for the money, but it does do its job just fine.

anything i should know about the JR-120 as im about to order one? im only going to cool my 9800pro and chipset the cpu is cooled by my mach1...

thx perc,