The Fermi Thread - Part 3

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03-15-2010, 12:44 PM
Behemot

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajaidev

GTX 295 works in sli with 32bit os and so does gtx 285 triple sli. Also last time i checked asus mars Dual GeForce GTX 285 4096 MB worked ok with windows 32bit.

5990 with 2*2gb is no different, each gpu will hold 2gb's not 4gb.

The memory is hidden from OS or what? If it is not and OS is able see it, it has to cut some RAM as well as some VRAM since the system needs something to run. Usually it cuts the RAM first, but it probably just cannot adress 4GB VRAM and 0 GB RAM because it won't even start.

The x86-32 systems simply adresses up to 4GB and the rest is unavailable and could not be used as long as it is not hidden from the OS somehow. Or at least this is what I saw every time with 256 or 512MB cards. But I personally did not have card with higher amount of memory in hands :(
03-15-2010, 12:45 PM
Caparroz

I don't believe in those prices posted on BSN, either. If it's true, Fermi performance will suck donkeys balls.
03-15-2010, 01:01 PM
Olivon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caparroz

I don't believe in those prices posted on BSN, either. If it's true, Fermi performance will suck donkeys balls.

:rofl:
03-15-2010, 01:20 PM
DMH

If it's priced high it's too expensive,if it's priced low it's under performing,damn you people always find something to criticize
03-15-2010, 01:21 PM
Starscream

Quote:

Originally Posted by screwtech02

Somebody forgot to add the 20% gratuitus Newegg markup too.....

Exactly.

Nvidia and ATI come with prices and then the shops start to up prices for extra profit (demand and supply) and people go and blame ATI/Nvidia when they should instead blame the stores.
03-15-2010, 01:48 PM
bill_d

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

Exactly.

Nvidia and ATI come with prices and then the shops start to up prices for extra profit (demand and supply) and people go and blame ATI/Nvidia when they should instead blame the stores.

well after two days they will all be OOS everywhere but ebay
03-15-2010, 03:42 PM
Humminn55

Quote:

Originally Posted by bill_d

well after two days they will all be OOS everywhere but ebay

That slow? I really don't think the initial release will last one day.
03-15-2010, 03:50 PM
570091D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caparroz

I don't believe in those prices posted on BSN, either. If it's true, Fermi performance will suck donkeys balls.

lolwut? no such thing as competative pricing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Humminn55

That slow? I really don't think the initial release will last one day.

they might stay in stock for two hours... remember how fast the 5870 sold out?
03-15-2010, 04:05 PM
pixelsptlk

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadasius

I am going to guess $500 for the GTX470 and $625 for the GTX480 all in US prices. I am thinking they will sell it at this because there will be features they will advertise really hard to justify the extra cost.

Based on the leaked benchmarks that pricing would be way overpriced.

I am thinking of buying a 480 only if before taxes pricing is $500 at most.
03-15-2010, 04:21 PM
Sadasius

Bah never underestimate the greed of resellers. I betcha I am pretty damn close. ;)
03-15-2010, 04:25 PM
Eastcoasthandle

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMH

If it's priced high it's too expensive,if it's priced low it's under performing,damn you people always find something to criticize

Actually they are only going on how they've priced their products in the past. :yepp:
03-15-2010, 04:33 PM
saaya

yet another price rumor from a not exactly reliable site... does this warrant yet another fermi thread?
i think not :P
03-15-2010, 04:40 PM
Caparroz

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMH

If it's priced high it's too expensive,if it's priced low it's under performing,damn you people always find something to criticize

I'm not complaining about anything but just making an analysis based on "facts" (i know it's just a bunch of rumours, some quite credible and other plain speculation but I said facts just for arguments sake).

-Nvidia isn't known to launch their nex-gen flagships as the "best bang for the buck" cards. Quite the contrary.

That been said:

-If the 470 trounces the 5850 and sometimes beats the 5870, why launch it at basically the same price (or even cheaper!) than the 5850? It doesn't make any sense.

-If the 470 sometimes beats a 5870, the 480 should blow it out of the water. So why price it just above the 5870? Again, it doesn't make sense.

-It's known that Fermi is a HUGE very costly chip to make and if the numerous rumours are right the yelds are not so good to say the least. If Fermi has the performance advantage over Cypress, why would Nvidia sell those huge costly chips at basically the same price as it's rivals?

-Considering the above as true, the logical conclusion is that 470's and 480's performance "suck donkeys balls".

Mind you I said "IF it's true." I don't have the slightest idea if it is or if it is not.

But I'm inclined to say that those prices are wrong. I hope Fermi is a hell of a performer. Competition is the best thing on any industry.
03-15-2010, 07:10 PM
WeStSiDePLaYa

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behemot

The memory is hidden from OS or what? If it is not and OS is able see it, it has to cut some RAM as well as some VRAM since the system needs something to run. Usually it cuts the RAM first, but it probably just cannot adress 4GB VRAM and 0 GB RAM because it won't even start.

The x86-32 systems simply adresses up to 4GB and the rest is unavailable and could not be used as long as it is not hidden from the OS somehow. Or at least this is what I saw every time with 256 or 512MB cards. But I personally did not have card with higher amount of memory in hands :(

I dont think that is how it works at all.

I dont think vram is included in system mem. otherwise workstation cards would have encountered this problem long ago.
03-15-2010, 07:33 PM
ajaidev

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behemot

The memory is hidden from OS or what? If it is not and OS is able see it, it has to cut some RAM as well as some VRAM since the system needs something to run. Usually it cuts the RAM first, but it probably just cannot adress 4GB VRAM and 0 GB RAM because it won't even start.

The x86-32 systems simply adresses up to 4GB and the rest is unavailable and could not be used as long as it is not hidden from the OS somehow. Or at least this is what I saw every time with 256 or 512MB cards. But I personally did not have card with higher amount of memory in hands :(

I dont think the OS counts the VRAM that way. If you use some of the main ram for a igp say a 3200 it is not seen by the OS the same way hence the RAM size shrinks.

EG If you have 4GB ram and you assign 1GB to your igp the OS does not see that 1GB in the same way as it will see the other 3GB's...

For CF's/SLi if the OS kills ram in any of the system it will be a huge penalty because both basically copy each others vram and will be in a pickle if either vram or main ram is decreased in size..
03-15-2010, 07:36 PM
aznsniper911

Hard decisions hard decisions, to keep my Crossfire HD 5870 or to go SLI with GTX 4xx hmmmmmm
03-15-2010, 09:30 PM
MrMojoZ

Quote:

Originally Posted by WeStSiDePLaYa

I dont think that is how it works at all.

I dont think vram is included in system mem. otherwise workstation cards would have encountered this problem long ago.

Don't think about it then, look it up. 32bit OSes can address 4gigs total. All ram in the computer is included in that.
03-15-2010, 09:50 PM
STEvil

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

Don't think about it then, look it up. 32bit OSes can address 4gigs total. All ram in the computer is included in that.

Incorrect.

You can address much much more than 4GB with 32bit OS's, but each program can utilize no more than 3GB (at least not easily).
03-15-2010, 10:01 PM
highoctane

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajaidev

I dont think the OS counts the VRAM that way. If you use some of the main ram for a igp say a 3200 it is not seen by the OS the same way hence the RAM size shrinks.

Last time I checked a std 32bit os had 4gb total shared address space for all AIC's including video cards.
03-15-2010, 10:04 PM
ElSel10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helloworld_98

edit: BSN is a load of rubbish, nvidia stated GTX 480 = 225w (turns out to be 275w according to SA), also 480 cores, why? you're chopping off 32 cores for no reason.

Nvidia never said the GTX280 would use 225W. And Charlie didn't say the 480 would be 275W, but the 470. As usual, with no referable sources. iirc, didn't charlie first say the 480 was castrated to 448sps and then later admit it would be 512? of course, both of those are wrong now ;)

Quote:

I'm quite sure the retailers which posted a few weeks ago have a better price idea than BSN.

Tell me you are not referring to SabrePC?
03-15-2010, 11:09 PM
Andrew LB

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMojoZ

Don't think about it then, look it up. 32bit OSes can address 4gigs total. All ram in the computer is included in that.

^^^ This man is correct.

Before I switched over to a 64-bit OS, I was running 4gb ram with 2x 8800gts 640mb cards and Windows would only show 2.75gb of system memory.

This is due to the limitations ALL 32-bit operating systems have in that they max out at 4gb address space. And because physical address space is used to address more than just RAM, it also has to address ALL of the memory contained on system devices such as graphics cards, network adapters, audio cards, system ROM, etc. In addition, many devices have have their registers addressed, further reducing how much ram a 32 bit OS can utilize.
03-15-2010, 11:16 PM
netkas

gtx480 is gonna be 5-15% faster in games than 5870, average is 8%, in usual (not 2560x) resolutions

just my 2 cents.
03-15-2010, 11:21 PM
blindbox

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD

Yea if you do a direct conversion but did you also compare the other card's prices listed in the same thread? Seems like in Malaysia it's around 22% expensier than in US.

With 22% price difference taken into account that would translate to a more reasonable $370 and $477.

Nope, Malaysian prices follows US prices closely. I live there after all:D

He said he got the prices from the distro themselves too.

In fact, Malaysian prices are usually a bit cheaper. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...d+5850&x=0&y=0 I can get Radeon HD 5850 for <US$300 here.

We're very close to Taiwan, no?
03-15-2010, 11:53 PM
Zed_X

Quote:

Originally Posted by netkas

gtx480 is gonna be 5-15% faster in games than 5870, average is 8%, in usual (not 2560x) resolutions

just my 2 cents.

Thats correct, in 2560x1600 + AA it is many more! Thats low prices are correct, i told that last week.
03-16-2010, 12:36 AM
Sn0wm@n

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrew LB

^^^ This man is correct.

Before I switched over to a 64-bit OS, I was running 4gb ram with 2x 8800gts 640mb cards and Windows would only show 2.75gb of system memory.

This is due to the limitations ALL 32-bit operating systems have in that they max out at 4gb address space. And because physical address space is used to address more than just RAM, it also has to address ALL of the memory contained on system devices such as graphics cards, network adapters, audio cards, system ROM, etc. In addition, many devices have have their registers addressed, further reducing how much ram a 32 bit OS can utilize.

sure and win server 08 datacenter 32bit edition is something different ???? 32bit can adress a total of more then 4gb.... but like somebody told it cant adress more then 3gb for a single program....

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