Reading all this ... my next board won't be that DFi I was looking at.
Thanks for the info.
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Reading all this ... my next board won't be that DFi I was looking at.
Thanks for the info.
Ahh the infamous "law".Quote:
Originally Posted by v0dka
1: Overclockability is provided, not guaranteed.
2: This "law" is applicable between buyer and seller only. DFI NL BV is most
certainly not Woffens seller. Jimm's is the seller.
"But does the possibility of rare and extreme user abuse really warrant a complete no-rma policy for burned PCB"
I know you only have my word on this, but "rare" it is not. This links back to what I said earlier about "having lost track...". You name it and someone has tried it with a DFI board. I've been here at DFI for about 5 years now and prior to that I worked at 2 other MB makers that made more "mundane" boards". When I started here the increased amount of user related damage was very noticable in comparison. Stricter policies were inevitable. I hope that sheds some light on the matter.
Sad to see the company respond like this, when the RMA process is there for situations like this. Why have an RMA policy at all if your simply going to reject/deny replacement when it is a manufacturing failure? A board should not fail under normal use, if the setting is available in bios the user should be able to use it, especially when it is a top end product designed specifically for this use. I will have a hard time ever recommending or buying a DFI product again, and hope the four boards of this model being used by my customers don't fail. Not that they seem to care, but DFI has now lost a few thousand dollars annually from my projects, I hope others from this forum follows suit, I would guess a lot of the draw to their products is generated here. Sad that the end user is guilty and impossible to be proven innocent with no recourse, the burden should be on DFI to prove that it was end user abuse, not the other way around.
If purchased with at credit card, check their policies, they maybe be able to do a charge back for failed product and failure to back their warranty.
On a side note, of all the DFI boards I have owned, only one failed, it was my fault, I never attempted to RMA it. I still have some around here that are ~7yrs old running strong, disappointed that I have now lost a manufacture choice for future builds.
Kudos for staying civil. More often than not I get a double-barreled blast of rage when I have to intervene on matters like this. I won't patronize you with some hearts and minds nonsense, and I would probably feel the same if the situation was reversed. I can only say that it is regretable that you do feel this way, and would like to add that use of sub to near zero cooling equipment is not a requirement for "normal" use of our boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by woffen
To me this sounds more like you wont guarantee the overclocker will be able to overclock his cpu to whatever he desires. Not that you wont guarantee that your board wont break when raising the volts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
I admit that there is a grey area. User assembled systems are one big grey area. I've been in this business a long time and it has always been this way and always shall be. I could do an aircrash style investigation of your board or anyones elses that has experienced such an issue, and still only come up with a "reasonable" conclusion as to the cause. Certainty can never be had. So in the end it comes to a decision based on experience and facts that one can only have when in possession of the big picture.Quote:
Originally Posted by woffen
Like I said earlier we will often look the other way when we can. I have had more than one "discussion" with my repair techs over boards that they would quickly declare out of warranty, and have pushed for repairs regardless. Personally if I could provide you with a happy ending to the story I would. Professionally there is little that can be done. I will leave you with this thou. Don't give up on talking to the seller just yet. I don't presume to speak for them, but perhaps they might be of assistance yet.
DFI Support Europe
So if i buy a BMW m5 or M6 and i want to use the M setting what gives me 100HP extra then BMW will say that ill void the warranty with using that setting???
I dont think so buddy or else BMW wouldnt given the customer the option for the M setting.
Its logical if you put another EPROM in ur car that you will void the warranty but Woffen didnt modify anything, he just adjusted the settings and DFI gave him the option to do that.
I think DFI should start suppliing motherboards without any voltage settings then if they cant give any warranty.
What if he didnt overclock at all and he's VRM would burn out, does that also means no warranty????
I can tell you this, DFI's policy sucks balls if it works like this.
So you are saying that his only hope to get working mobo for free is that Jimm's PC-Store pays it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
I consider myself as a normal user and bought DFI DK 790FXB-M2RSH for Phenom2 PC. So if I somehow end up burning PCB from that board or from my T3eH8 I'm screwed and have to pay that myself ? If so then I just have to buy other boards in future.
Well, good thing with DFI is that they have someone on these forums who actually cares to explain why something is as it is.
EDIT:
One question. Those temps what Smart Guardian reports for my i7, are those real ? It gives much lower temps than Real Temp. And what are official safe temps for that board (chipset, etc)?
I find this manufacturer response absolutely ridiculous. If this is indicative of the attitudes of DFI globally, I'm not at all surprised that noone at all bothered to respond to my multiple e-mails and phone calls when my board burned up.
There have now been, what, five different people posting in this thread with similar PWM-related issues? As far as I can see, noone here has used "extreme" or even sub-ambient cooling, noone has pushed ridiculous overclocks on their hardware. This is clearly and blatantly a manufacturing problem, and to say that everyone who experiences burnt PCB or component failure must have caused the problem themselves is not only lazy but insulting. I used to recommend DFI to my friends for "normal" use - gaming builds, air- or water-cooled simple above-ambient builds - and use DFI motherboards by choice in the AMD range of high-end workstation and gaming PCs that my small business sells. Now that I've heard the attitudes of the company rep, however, I will be moving to another manufacturer from now on. Your products are good, but your arrogance is astounding.
QFT this will show why customers should or should not give any of their hard earned money. :down: Blame on the user! :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
Just as a side note, for people who still have a working version of this board. What are the max voltages you can use to stay inside "warranty"?
Intel gives out some max voltages for 24/7 use, cant remember the vcore part exactly but vtt was 1.55v for C0 and 1.35v for D0? Maybe someone can correct those if my memory deceives me:rolleyes:
Gents:
The bottom line is burnt PCB = voided factory warranty. No other way to say it really. How it happened isn't relevant to most MB makers to be blunt. Don't kid yourself, most of my competitors have similiar policies. They may be more or less lenient about it than us, but at the end of the day no one can repair a burned PCB. The only solace that can be offered is a replacement.
As to whether Jimms will end up "paying for it" is another matter. Perhaps Jimm's will as yet reject the board for service. Perhaps they will offer a replacement. Perhaps there is an arrangement between DFI and Jimms to cover just such situations. Perhaps there isn't. Perhaps the pricing to Jimm's is lowered to provide them some financial protection in cases where they get caught in the middle. Perhaps Jimms and DFI are part of the same evil cult and will find "other" ways to resolve the matter. Perhaps I will wake up with a Jimms PC horse head in my bed one morning. The point is it is best not to speculate about relationships between the factory and the supplier. These sorts of things happen all the time and we have ways of working them out (or not). From a consumers standpoint there is only one relationship of any relevance and that is the one between buyer and seller. So my advice is maintain a cordial relationship with the supplier at all times, and seek solutions via them, as the truth of the matter is that they are the only party legally indebted to the buyer. Solutions obtained via the factory can be had, and if they are, great, but one shouldn't go setting the expectation bar too high when it comes to appealing to a 3rd party.
DFI Support Europe
According to Jimms they have followed the guidlines of DFI warranty which will not cover a burned PCB. They have offered me some kind of a discount if I want to buy a new mobo which is nice of them. However I don't know how it works if they actually are obligated to give me a new mobo as it is within warranty. According to our consumer service basically they need to prove I caused the burning of the component, I shouldn't have to prove that I did not.
They also offered to give me a new board right away and send this to the DFI factory. If they clear it for RMA (which obviously won't happen according to Bulldog14) it's all good. But if they don't, I need to pay for the new mobo + shipping + handling fees which will total it to ~100€ more than I payed for it in the first place.
How DFI's warranty policy affects this I do not know.
just to be curious.... How many board are returned with faulty pwm/NB area????
I know that one of my boards pwm/NB area fried.... And reading here 2 other ppl also....
Not to mention All those ppl who have a irritating buzz/whining comin from the pwm area.... ( i think ALOT of ppl.)
Have a longer list of things... maybe i'll post them later.
Wow, sad to see some clearly board-related issue go down like this. I used to love my DFIs until now, my current UT was one of the first batches and it has been heavily abused but it still going strong (ran prime/linX and BOINC on SS at >4,6Ghz+ 24/7, it has a rusty socket etc) but seeing how DFI won't replace a board that simply caught fire without user error is definitely a new low.
Oh well, since my Gulftowns won't work either in my DFIs I just ordered a Classified. Anybody wanna buy a "tested" DFI :p:
That is pretty nice to deny warranty just because of burnt pcb which can be a factory defect or user's fault but denying the warranty without looking the board is pretty harsh.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
Well history tells that bad publicity hurts more than keeping a customer happy unless you can sell dirt cheap like walmart. Well in this case neither happens. Lets see how long DFI stays with us. :shrug:
Personally i had to get a replacement board while mine is on RMA and i didn't get DFI because stories like this. BTW the board was $170 at newegg for a fully ATX X58 board which is not bad but then i think i made the right choice.
I realize that I am the last person in the world right now that you want advice from, but take the discount.Quote:
Originally Posted by woffen
Sad to read this.. I hope they´ll RMA it fast..
I´ve RMAed four DFi mobos without problems.. their support was ok, didn´t asked much questions.. tough, only one RMA was my "fault".. but they still RMA´ed it.. Now I have Foxconn, but I was thinking about this mobo too.. had it even in hands. :D
The picture the OP posted shows and exposed and charred PCB pretty clearly. Of course the person is welcome to have the supplier send it to us, but it's pretty clear to me from those pics as to the boards status. Sending it here will only lengthen an unpleasant situation imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafeifa
gulftown doesn't work..... DOH.. I hope it will with a bios update.. A well maybe it's a good htpc MB ;)
Bulldog..... Do you know if gulftown will be possible with this board?
Nice way to drop the ball on the retailers court. I will keep that in mind next time if i ever get another DFI board.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
So faulty components may have nothing to do with the issue exposed PCB = Users fault that is a nice way of assessing warranty claims. But there is no way of finding it out because "Sending it here will only lengthen an unpleasant situation imo."Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulldog14
omg.. this is absolutely sick! i cant believe this ? how can this be users fault?
What makes a motherboard different from a car for exampel? lets say you use the windshield wiper, and the wipermotor blows.. arent you going to get it covered from guarantee? yes you are... cus windshield wiper is one of the features you have PAID for, and therefore shall be able to use without breaking something..
Changing settings for the cpu voltage is MAYBE going to void the warranty of the CPU itself.. After all, its the cpu that sees the voltage. The mb is only providing it, and if it cant provide enough current without blowing fets or traces/whatever, then the mb manufacturer shall not make an option to use it!
Dfi boards rock if they work ;) lol.
Found something nice on the nethttp://www.marinex.se/web/files/supp...0Guideline.pdf
Actually with the new Nissan GTr - if you turn off traction control and some other settings and you are NOT on a race track then your warranty is void but that is another issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Earzz
Am i missing the obvious in that - can bulldog actually proce he's from DFI? i just see him saying and everyone beleiveing?
Thats a new one. PM me if you want and I'll give you my support address here at DFI. Through all the ups and downs I've been there only support tech here in Europe for the last 5 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Origin_Unknown