Core i7 - a very bad investment for most people

I seen this coming a mile away. There is only so much that you can achieve with how lazy coders are these days. Intel developed the fastest single threaded processor to date, now they are expanding into the multi threaded segment even more. Once 8+ core processors are available then the improvements of this architecture will start to show its face.

Quad vs Quad isnt where the difference is going to be noticed, its when you look at 8+ core chips then you will see it. Which would get bottlenecked sooner, (Theoretical) 12 core Peryn or a 12 Core Nehelam?

Its good/Its bad. Everyone happy now? :D This is XS and most of us build extreme systems regardless of price/performance ratios in search of the powa. Im sure a few new records are on the way real soon. It is a step forward.

Have any of you read Guru3D's SLi/xFire review. According to them Ci7 makes a whole heap of sense if you run more than two GPUs.

I have seen so many systems where multi GPU setups are castrated by a poor choice of processor or lack of OC. Then when we send out the system and it comes back for an OC or CPU upgrade.

Finally we have a platform that can do both SLi and xFire and show very good scaling with additional GPUs. So do Ci7 is not a disappointment for gamers, but is not necessary until multiple GTX280/4870 levels of performance are mainstream (6-12 months).

The thing is Guru managed to get a cpu limit from an 8400 @ stock @ <1920x1200 resolution. Let's see them try to find one on a Yorkfield @ 3.6+

for gamers, there needs to be multicore benefits, just how much is actually possible i dont know. a 4 or 8 core cpu will never be a larabee, but it's about cpu being a bottleneck isnt it?

when you know that sooner or later a cheaper better cpu will come along...or at least is only a fraction behind in performance...

just curious but does anyone have any info on the lga1066 socket stuff that's rumored to be released mid 09 ?
I may wait till there is a game that actually forces me to upgrade :/

Read a few reviews today, I think its plainly obvious whats going on. i7 is for multi threading, GPU's will take over shortly doing those computational tasks 10 to 100 times faster than the CPU's we have now.So as apps are ported more to multi thread i have a feeling multi thread CPU's will control individual GPU's as we all know GPU's are going 2 on die then 4 on die etc soon.

i7 is a good move forward, no FSB (thank god) good power saving and as good performance as what we have already...but its not p4 to core when you look at performance.

GPU is the way forward, Intel know this now, AMD know it and we all know Nvidia has been crowing about it for months.

Did Fugger ever get Pi32m running on Nv cards? i bet 32m runs sub 30 secs ;)

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Originally Posted by Tony

Read a few reviews today, I think its plainly obvious whats going on. i7 is for multi threading, GPU's will take over shortly doing those computational tasks 10 to 100 times faster than the CPU's we have now.So as apps are ported more to multi thread i have a feeling multi thread CPU's will control individual GPU's as we all know GPU's are going 2 on die then 4 on die etc soon.

i7 is a good move forward, no FSB (thank god) good power saving and as good performance as what we have already...but its not p4 to core when you look at performance.

GPU is the way forward, Intel know this now, AMD know it and we all know Nvidia has been crowing about it for months.

Did Fugger ever get Pi32m running on Nv cards? i bet 32m runs sub 30 secs ;)

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hi Tony;
I've been playing with the 965 for 2 weeks and there's definately some potential in there.
One of the things that jumped out at me was when I ran 2SMP installs of Folding at home on it.
The fastest machine doing that app over at the FAH team here is a Yorkie on water at 4000mhz..
He makes 3300 points a day/
The Nehalem at 3733 was pulling 4991 points a day.
No rhyme or reason for this as there isn't a benchmark involved, all based on how much time it takes and how much you can produce in a day.
The WU have an assigned value that everyone gets so it's just faster makes more points a day. I never expected to see that great an increase.

So, I went in @ Tom and then looked on the forums. Apparently, some random Intel employee said that there's a setting on the mobo to release the overclock limits ... I don't even know if it's actually "hardwired"

Anyway, here's the killer:

Intel's X58 + Multi-GPU = around 20 fps gain on like 1280x1024 ...

Source: guru3d

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Originally Posted by Tony

i7 is a good move forward, no FSB (thank god) good power saving and as good performance as what we have already...but its not p4 to core when you look at performance.
GPU is the way forward, Intel know this now, AMD know it and we all know Nvidia has been crowing about it for months.

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Hit the nail on the head imo.
I was not expecting a huge performance increase from the i7 just a change in direction with the technology.
Future incarnations will most likely reap better performance but I doubt we will see another "P4 to core" performance jump until the GPU becomes the main processing unit.
Remember the original core was based off a already known architecture.
Future improvements are from the unknown and so I would have to assume the improvements will be incremental as well.

I'm still on my E6600 and see no need to upgrade still (Gamer).
2-3 year old hardware (can't remember now) still going strong and performance difference is little once the machine is over clocked (Gaming).

Now that was a good investment.

How do all you people get these chips sent to you?? I want some chips darn it. I have just as much pottential as any over clocker here except the rich ones :p:

Well many things come to mind after reading the "official" results, that we here have known for weeks were going to add up to what we are seeing today.

• The mobile sector is still an area where bandwidth starvation hurts cpu performance. Nehalem "may" show more gains when it comes to that arena, because of the differential to current chips.
• 32nm chips are likely to up the L2 cache. This cache is still important, just there was a budget on what could be built at what cost and L2 lost to the other priorities.
• I look at my first gen Conroe and still find it a bit hard to consider I7. I didn't think this would be the case, but it is. That now "old" Conroe still does a good job.
• I don't think the I7 makes sense for those with 3+ghz quads now. But those of you who have these cpu's have a practically brand new cpu. Were you honestly expecting a huge jump?
• I'm not sure yet, but the I7 EE version may well hit a better price point than the 9770. I suspect the I7 is cheaper to produce, but that's a guess.
• 32nm may well just bring more cores and not any more speed. Bear that in mind if you, like me, are considering just "making do" with what you have now till those chips come.

So those who are arguing that it's not really a "move up" from a Core 2 quad were destined to be dissappointed. Intel classically offers a 15% improvement on new chips over old (meaning new designs) and we were all spoiled by the Core 2. But that was because we grew to hate the P4. Intel beat the 15% in some applications, and the bulk of the applications affected are forward thinking ones, that use multiple cores or treat memory bandwidth like it grew on trees, which now it does. Tomorrow's apps aren't going to give a hoot as to their memory footprint. Need more memory? Buy higher density chips. 12gb on a home desktop is great and insane at the same time :) Need more bandwidth to that memory? Well I7 is for you.

Fact is a current Core 2 quad is plenty! Run it at 4ghz and it is ginormously plenty. That should make current owners proud! That's not a reason to naysay the I7. It is a reason to be happy that Intel has already made you a happy owner. Users of older dual core chips or, hopefully not, P4's can well consider the I7. I certainly don't think that a high end Core 2 Quad is a better "new purchase" than a I7 at this point, given similar pricing. I7 is what software will make use of in the future.

Quick question... I keep seeing people saying "Ill just wait for 8 cores"... will there even be an improvement between that and lets say, the current quads?

From PD to C2d to C2Q, from 2005 to 2009 and that's 4 years of improvement.
Now Nehalem is starting on a new ground and a new journey into something that's worth considering, innovation.
Pricing is of course but ex. in the 1st place with newer technology and New research will gains ground. :clap:
To buy is one thing, affordability is an issue to some. Be happy with what you have, or wait for reasonable amount of time to be affordable to move on.
Is a never ending pursuit to buy newer technology, a much have for some...new toys to play with, itchy hands to ground their urge for higher ground with new world record to chase. Or simply hardware enthusiast.
Buy with Budget in mind.:p:

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Originally Posted by flesheatinvirus

Its good/Its bad. Everyone happy now? :D This is XS and most of us build extreme systems regardless of price/performance ratios in search of the powa. Im sure a few new records are on the way real soon. It is a step forward.

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I could not say it better myself , i completely agree with you :D this is XS,not Gamers Hell lol

since when were the ppl at XS buying hardware as an INVESTMENT? :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Katzenschleuder

With the benchmark results now available, it becomes -yet again- evident that the CPU performance that is relevant to most end users is struggling to increase to justify the price.

That Core i7 delivers significant performance gains for work loads which can be efficiently multi-threaded is of course something significant.
But are end users really benefiting of this?

I highly doubt that most people encode video/music or compress gigantic archives in a frequent manner and I doubt that you really do care if it takes 10 or 15 minutes to do this once a week.

What most end users care about in the high-end market is performance in games.
Nearly all games available on the market do not show any relevant performance gain by Core i7 at typical real life settings.
It is no news that the GPU is by far the most significant bottleneck for games.

Buying a new Core i7 system would cost you a huge pile of money.
Most people would see a much greater performance if this money is being spend into an additional GPU and/or a fast SSD instead.


Yes, this is no groundbreaking new finding, but I just thought that it is worthy to discuss about.

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Originally Posted by guru3d.com

You could also look at this processor as a good investment for future (much faster) graphics cards.

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http://www.guru3d.com/article/core-i...ance-review/19

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Originally Posted by Movieman

hi Tony;
I've been playing with the 965 for 2 weeks and there's definately some potential in there.
One of the things that jumped out at me was when I ran 2SMP installs of Folding at home on it.
The fastest machine doing that app over at the FAH team here is a Yorkie on water at 4000mhz..
He makes 3300 points a day/
The Nehalem at 3733 was pulling 4991 points a day.
No rhyme or reason for this as there isn't a benchmark involved, all based on how much time it takes and how much you can produce in a day.
The WU have an assigned value that everyone gets so it's just faster makes more points a day. I never expected to see that great an increase.

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what you need to do now is run FAH on GPU and compare again, I have a feeling you will see another huge jump in performance.

Overall im loving what i7 is bringing to the table, I do now feel co processor/GPU is the way forward now though.
Just look at the gains in speed people have reported running apps on NV cards over the past 6 months, some are just incredible overall.

Do not get me wrong here...we need fast CPU's,but I feel the power of the GPU has not been fully tapped into yet.

Where do all you people get these samples?? How do I sign up?? I want samples.

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Originally Posted by Aldy402

since when were the ppl at XS buying hardware as an INVESTMENT? :shrug:

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Never :), we buy it because we want push it to limits and force nuclear power plants to over limits just because we are power hungry.

Anyway ill buy i7 920 Nehalem and 32nm Nehalem when it comes out, if you think nehalem as bad investment then you shouldnt be in here at XtremeSystems.

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Originally Posted by truehighroller

Where do all you people get these samples?? How do I sign up?? I want samples.

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I wish i would know.

If the software could only catch-up with the hardware, you'll see what a performance horse nehalem really is; the imc alone is a major improvement. I say take a look at hwbot a month from now and you'll see how efficient the enhanced architecture is; I think this thread is a bit premature, and ironically rather points to the strength of the newer chips since they're doing better against the older chips in many categories. As for performance/price, its a no-brainer, wait a year and upgrade.

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Originally Posted by truehighroller

Where do all you people get these samples?? How do I sign up?? I want samples.

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It takes a lot of projects (successful projects), getting your name out there, setting a few records; that's all before you even get discounts. It still takes quite awhile after that before you're looking at early freebies.

As to the whole i7 debate we've got raging around here... since when has new hardware not been expensive (and since when have people not whined about it? :rolleyes:) like a top-level virgin concubine?

The point is most of us are in this for the hardware, for the power, and for of course pushing said hardware to its earthly limits. If you're not turned on by a quicker SuperPi time, or a massive crunch, then what are you doing here? :)

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Originally Posted by BiTsCrEaM

It takes a lot of projects (successful projects), getting your name out there, setting a few records; that's all before you even get discounts. It still takes quite awhile after that before you're looking at early freebies. :)

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Thank you that's what I was wondering. By projects what do you mean? Sorry, and thank you so very much for answering me. :up:.

Projects as in buying new hardware and tweaking/OCing the hell out of it, maybe phase change/LN2, distributing your results.

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Originally Posted by BiTsCrEaM

Projects as in buying new hardware and tweaking/OCing the hell out of it, maybe phase change/LN2, distributing your results.

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Thanks :up:. I will begin working towards building a Phase change then. I have been wanting to get some recognition for a little while now. I just wasn't sure how to go about doing it.