Nvidia has serious yield problems with the GT200.

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06-26-2008, 11:00 AM
Kunaak

why is this considerd news, when its just speculation?
06-26-2008, 11:03 AM
highoctane

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunaak

why is this considerd news, when its just speculation?

Its not just speculation its "XtremeSpeculation" :D
06-26-2008, 11:07 AM
alexio

I just wanted to have some fun :D You can take my word for it or not, but I know my source is pretty solid.
06-26-2008, 11:08 AM
highoctane

Yes, we have "XtremeSpeculation" & "XtremeSource", just keeping it Xtreme!! :D
06-26-2008, 11:14 AM
Tim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunaak

why is this considerd news, when its just speculation?

Your a mod, why don't you close it?
06-26-2008, 11:16 AM
ownage

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

Your a mod, why don't you close it?

Why close it?
Several sources say exactly what Alexio said. Why would this be a problem to discuss?
06-26-2008, 11:37 AM
dinos22

Quote:

Originally Posted by ownage

Why close it?
Several sources say exactly what Alexio said. Why would this be a problem to discuss?

where are they
there are no stock issues here :shrug:
06-26-2008, 11:38 AM
safan80

Quote:

Originally Posted by [cTx]Warboy

Weee! rumor mill thread, Best thread evar. NOT! :rofl:

Every company now days have yield issues in the news atleast.
Intel, nvidia, AMD, ATi.

AMD and it's Phenom.
Intel and their Penryn.
Nvidia and their G80 / GT200.
ATi and their past 2 product cycles.

God damn people. It's called a Revision. There is a meaning behind that.

this looks like sig food:up:
06-26-2008, 11:49 AM
LowRun

For those questioning Alexio's claim i can only say that it's been heard before that Nvidia was pissing it's partners big time.

http://www.hardware.fr/news/9728/com...rtenaires.html

It's in French and i don't feel like translating it right now as we are at the middle of Russia vs Spain but it says that some partners got told they wouldn't get any GT200 allocations, some ohters would get some but couldn't sell them in some countrys and other stuff. Doesn't sound very appealing to be Nvidia's partner unless you're one of the closest.
06-26-2008, 11:59 AM
jas420221

Wow... this makes sense as far as cost...:LOL:

Regarding the thread, isnt news for facts, like with a citeable source? Though this may be true. The fact that it cant be backed up by a source should put this in the rumor mill.
06-26-2008, 11:59 AM
highoctane

Well how about some names of the partners that where denied so that we all know who specifically got the shaft, otherwise we're back to "XtremeSpeculation".
06-26-2008, 12:05 PM
Beefy22

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexio

It is still a very good chip, I'd say it is about as impressive as the RV770. The problem here is not the performance, but rather the marketing.

Nvidia pushed the 9800 series to sell as many GPUs as possible (this is just normal business). The problem however is that their board partners still needed to sell all those G92 8800 cards. You and I know the difference between the two series is quite small, but 50% of the potential buyers don't. As a result the price of the 8800 cards drops to a very low point. But Nvidia wants to sell even more G92 GPUs, so they launch the 9800GX2. The result is that many people buy a 9800GX2 instead of 2 seperate cards, now the board partners have a buttload of 8800 and 9800 cards. Now Nvidia pushes the G92+ forwards making it harder for their partners to sell their normal 9800GTXs. The low-margin 9800GX2 is just becoming absolete throught the launch of the new GT200 based cards, so these cards have to be sold cheaply.

My point here is that this is indeed business. Nvidia is indeed doing great business. However Nvidia finally understands that they have screwed their partners, so the weird pricing agreement comes in effect to save their smaller/weaker partners.

Makes sense?

^That makes perfect sense... But you could easily replace the following terms -> G92 with RV670, G92+ with RV770pro Rev. 2.0, and realize that Nvidia and Ati are most likely both alienating their AIB partners(margins must be crap for both camps).
06-26-2008, 12:14 PM
Warboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by safan80

this looks like sig food:up:

o rly?:ROTF:
06-26-2008, 12:19 PM
Starscream

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowRun

For those questioning Alexio's claim i can only say that it's been heard before that Nvidia was pissing it's partners big time.

http://www.hardware.fr/news/9728/com...rtenaires.html

It's in French and i don't feel like translating it right now as we are at the middle of Russia vs Spain but it says that some partners got told they wouldn't get any GT200 allocations, some ohters would get some but couldn't sell them in some countrys and other stuff. Doesn't sound very appealing to be Nvidia's partner unless you're one of the closest.

could be that those partners pissed Nvidia off.
Wouldnt be the first time Nvidia temporarily cut off some partners or put them on the bottom of the supply listas a sort of punishment.

COuld be one of them partners is so pissed of over this that they are spreading this fud. Cause tbh i cant see any supply issues. People form Australia and Ireland also report no supply issues even tho those 2 countrys are usualy the last to get hardware when there are issues.
06-26-2008, 01:07 PM
LowRun

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

could be that those partners pissed Nvidia off.
Wouldnt be the first time Nvidia temporarily cut off some partners or put them on the bottom of the supply listas a sort of punishment.

COuld be one of them partners is so pissed of over this that they are spreading this fud. Cause tbh i cant see any supply issues. People form Australia and Ireland also report no supply issues even tho those 2 countrys are usualy the last to get hardware when there are issues.

Of course you're free to believe what you wan't but when a site i respect because i never saw them making up stuff or blindingly taking side over the years, on the contrary they are amongst the most serious guys on the net (they were the first to reveal R600's broken UVD for example) that i know of, so when that site says in introduction:

Quote:

"A show like Computex gives the opportunity to talk with a lot of executives and therefore to have some rather interesting discussions, with no wooden tongue (doesn't know if this translate to anything in English, it's kind of politicians talk :D ). It's been a while that Nvidia's very aggressive strategy on the top of the range as been problematic to a lot of it's partners, we mentioned this point to every one of them and for the most part they were not short of critics.".

Alexio seems more like a confirmation to me :shrug:
06-26-2008, 01:15 PM
metro.cl

This is quite funny, it is always the guy against AMD/ATI the one that has really poor Yields but AMD ohh they are perfect.

Of corse NVIDIA should have lower yields than AMD (because they have a lot less complex chip) but then to go and say 40% i think is way to low they wouldnt even make it. (Think how much higher 9800GTX+ clocks and then you could have done a 9800GX2+ if you didnt have anything else or if this gen was crap). AFAIK that GT200 calculates 3D is a side efect, it was meant for GPGPU, if you look it that way it makes a lot more sense.
06-26-2008, 01:41 PM
Calmatory

Quote:

Originally Posted by metro.cl

This is quite funny, it is always the guy against AMD/ATI the one that has really poor Yields but AMD ohh they are perfect.

Of corse NVIDIA should have lower yields than AMD (because they have a lot less complex chip) but then to go and say 40% i think is way to low they wouldnt even make it. (Think how much higher 9800GTX+ clocks and then you could have done a 9800GX2+ if you didnt have anything else or if this gen was crap). AFAIK that GT200 calculates 3D is a side efect, it was meant for GPGPU, if you look it that way it makes a lot more sense.

Face it, GT200 is a flop when compared to RV770.

Why comparing their yields? Even if AMD had 80 % defect-rate and Nvidia had "only" 60 %, that wouldn't mean that Nvidia's yields are anywhere near good. They just plain suck.

AMD did great job with RV770(especially compared to GT200), and you will thank them for lower prices from Nvidia, now it is Nvidia's turn to do the same.
06-26-2008, 01:43 PM
sonofahb

think about this people... the gtx280 is not a total failure. i think its kinda a ahead of its time if u ask me. it still competes with multi gpu setups and is almost 1 to 1 with the gx2. as far as everyone thinking it was gonna be like a g80 performance jump it really kinda is. give them some time to perfect it and add on to it, shrink it ect. yea at the end of the day performance is king but they really made one helluva gpu. will i be buying a gtx 280? probably not. but hell hardware is sooo far ahead of software right now(minus crisis but who cares about that game) that i dont see a need to scrap my 8800 gt. and until some really good games come out that my 8800 gt doesnt satisfy me is when i upgrade and i think the majority of people have that same attitude towards it.
06-26-2008, 01:49 PM
LowRun

Here's the partners rant article in English: http://www.behardware.com/news/9728/...rtenaires.html
06-26-2008, 02:09 PM
Nano2k

As far as I understand the rant is not about the yields or quantities, it's about Nvidia deciding who sells what and in where, which means that some partners will be advantaged over others. They did this "partly" to avoid everybody selling to the most lucrative or easiest markets and promote availibility (unlike the usual deal were the only place with cards is USA and almost nothing for Europe). Of course this also helps prevent price gouging etc...
Guess the tactic is a bit useless now the 4870 is proving to be a success...
06-26-2008, 02:13 PM
Calmatory

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonofahb

think about this people... the gtx280 is not a total failure. i think its kinda a ahead of its time if u ask me. it still competes with multi gpu setups and is almost 1 to 1 with the gx2. as far as everyone thinking it was gonna be like a g80 performance jump it really kinda is. give them some time to perfect it and add on to it, shrink it ect. yea at the end of the day performance is king but they really made one helluva gpu. will i be buying a gtx 280? probably not. but hell hardware is sooo far ahead of software right now(minus crisis but who cares about that game) that i dont see a need to scrap my 8800 gt. and until some really good games come out that my 8800 gt doesnt satisfy me is when i upgrade and i think the majority of people have that same attitude towards it.

By the time they strip it(256-bit MC), shrink it(55nm) and fine-tune it along with the new process, it will fight R700 which has probably been out for few months already.

G92bX2 for the win! :up:
06-26-2008, 02:14 PM
systemviper

I like them both but I will get 2 - 4870's for now till they shrink the die on the GT200 series.
I find it fun to play on both sides of the fence! :up:

Next i need a AMD board, :lol:
06-26-2008, 02:18 PM
cegras

Quote:

Originally Posted by metro.cl

This is quite funny, it is always the guy against AMD/ATI the one that has really poor Yields but AMD ohh they are perfect.

Of corse NVIDIA should have lower yields than AMD (because they have a lot less complex chip) but then to go and say 40% i think is way to low they wouldnt even make it. (Think how much higher 9800GTX+ clocks and then you could have done a 9800GX2+ if you didnt have anything else or if this gen was crap). AFAIK that GT200 calculates 3D is a side efect, it was meant for GPGPU, if you look it that way it makes a lot more sense.

Actually, a former ATI employee told me some time ago that early yields on the R600 were somewhere around 20, 30%. Yes, those are actual numbers .. LE GASP!

Ouch?

Also, yield does not necessarily translate into volume. It just means they're making TSMC work harder.
06-26-2008, 02:18 PM
zerazax

No surprise then that RV670 was rushed out within 6 months on 55nm or else they would never have made any money off the original architecture
06-26-2008, 02:30 PM
Aberration

Quote:

Originally Posted by cegras

Also, yield does not necessarily translate into volume. It just means they're making TSMC work harder.

More like vendor service personel.

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