Some New Blood On The Testbed :)

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12-01-2007, 02:07 PM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Guys, I hear what ya'll are saying but I can't deviate from what I've done with ALL the other blocks/mods I've tested thus far... They would all have to be RETESTED if I changed anything to have any comparison value whatsoever. Good or bad, I've got to stick with exactly what i've been doing.

On that note, I think I will discard my first run with the 24c ambients just so I can get the atmosphere more in line with the other tests that I've done. As I've always said, my testing is far from ideal and not the end all be all. What I do give though is attention to detail, repetition and unbiased results.

Yeah, that's what I would do. As long as everything was tested exactly the same, the comparison will still be valid and very worthwhile. The couple of odd tests I had found were usually pointed out after making several runs.

Strength in numbers..:up:
12-01-2007, 03:12 PM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petra

...and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm not trying to invalidate anything that you're doing, nor am I trying to create more work for you. I brought the oddity up because I thought that it would be good for you and others performing testing to, if nothing else, just keep in mind while testing so that you might be more likely to spot any odd data and/or limit the impact by not collecting data from TAT when there are large differences in ambient temperature.

I still need to look into this more to gain some idea of what's going on.

I have seen my fair share of oddities, just look at some of my mounts :ROTF: They get lumped in with the rest unless it is something grossly out of whack.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampire_Hunter

Or gain? :shrug:

If nikhsub1 is willing I would send him the older model Aquastream pump that was being sold a few months ago that can OC up to about 72 Hz. I think new ones will OC up to about 94 Hz.

I appreciate the offer but in order for this to have any usefulness, every other block would then need to be retested with this pump... not my idea of fun :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waterlogged

nik is doing all his testing with exactly the same hardware every time to insure consistency so results can be compared.

Yes this is the idea, I won't even update my bios, ever. ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martinm210

Yeah, that's what I would do. As long as everything was tested exactly the same, the comparison will still be valid and very worthwhile. The couple of odd tests I had found were usually pointed out after making several runs.

Strength in numbers..:up:

Yep, the more mounts you get the more you can see a trend.

Oh and don't worry, immortal is on my ignore list now as obviously he just doesn't like me for some reason or another.
12-01-2007, 04:01 PM
rsmaverick

That is such a beautiful block...however the restriction and the price holds me back :(. Probably wouldn't be a good idea to have this in a loop with 2 8800gtx ek's would it? I'm looking forward to more results. nice work.
12-01-2007, 04:09 PM
mouawad

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fujimitsu

Am i the only one that finds that aqua/blue color tacky and ugly?

I'm interested to see how it performs... honestly not expecting much though, given the design.

no i agree entirely, it looks cheap imo.

not that aesthetics really matter.
12-01-2007, 04:31 PM
RickCain

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsmaverick

That is such a beautiful block...however the restriction and the price holds me back :(. Probably wouldn't be a good idea to have this in a loop with 2 8800gtx ek's would it? I'm looking forward to more results. nice work.

Actually i have one ddc and it pushed through the DI block, EK 8800 block and a northbridge block no problem. Remember this block is made by a company founded on low flow products.
12-01-2007, 05:51 PM
Vampire_Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fujimitsu

Am i the only one that finds that aqua/blue color tacky and ugly?

I'm interested to see how it performs... honestly not expecting much though, given the design.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mouawad

no i agree entirely, it looks cheap imo.

not that aesthetics really matter.

Actually I like it, but when I first got an XT I bought a clear top and copper top as well. Sold the copper top immediately as it looked terrible to me. Kept the clear one in case I wanted to do something with different color coolant. The aqua blue top is still in my box. From what I understand, AC said the alternate tops were a commercial bust.

Aesthetics always matter. Would you buy a BMW hot rod if it looked like a soap box derby? If you have a window in your case you are probably interested in aesthetics in some manner or another.
12-01-2007, 09:08 PM
Erasmus354

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

I appreciate the offer but in order for this to have any usefulness, every other block would then need to be retested with this pump... not my idea of fun :D[/SIZE]

You don't necessarily have to test every other block, just one or two to sort of give a comparison. With how insanely restrictive this block is I am really interested in seeing how it stacks up to a free flowing block like the Fuzion when your not powering the thing with some insane Iwaki.
12-01-2007, 10:45 PM
Jupiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShoNuff

Do you know if any part of Radical_53's testing is available online? I would really like to see his results.

AFAIK, it's not available online.
I can ask Radical_53 if maybe he can post the results of the tests, as he's the author of the article.
12-01-2007, 11:31 PM
Vampire_Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasmus354

You don't necessarily have to test every other block, just one or two to sort of give a comparison. With how insanely restrictive this block is I am really interested in seeing how it stacks up to a free flowing block like the Fuzion when your not powering the thing with some insane Iwaki.

Perhaps that might be a good idea as the Iwaki undoubtedly dumps a lot of heat whereas the 1048 or Aquastream/HPPS Eheim variants do not. Perhaps there is a happy middle ground here. AC themselves said that the block didn't show big gains in performance with powerful pumps.
12-02-2007, 08:25 AM
Slitch

http://www.aquatuning.de/shop_content.php/coID/1071
This has allready been posted a few weeks ago though....
12-02-2007, 08:30 AM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slitch

http://www.aquatuning.de/shop_content.php/coID/1071
This has allready been posted a few weeks ago though....

Umm no offence but those results are so whack, I don't even know where to begin. Those numbers go against everything I have seen in my own testing.
12-02-2007, 09:04 AM
Erasmus354

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Umm no offence but those results are so whack, I don't even know where to begin. Those numbers go against everything I have seen in my own testing.

Duuuude, what are you talking about? We all know that the TDX absolutely clobbers everything but the AC DI :ROTF: :rofl:
12-02-2007, 09:49 AM
Vampire_Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Umm no offence but those results are so whack, I don't even know where to begin. Those numbers go against everything I have seen in my own testing.

No intent to start something here, but what do you see that is whack? Have you tested all those blocks they show in that link?

Is this not showing what you have found already, that the XT DI cools better than the competition though extremely restrictive?

Unfortunately my German skills are lacking here. What does it say under each chart? What is the reference to 60% and 100%?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erasmus354

Duuuude, what are you talking about? We all know that the TDX absolutely clobbers everything but the AC DI :ROTF: :rofl:

Well I think the issue here is what is being tested, no? Not too long ago tests were performed strictly CPU cooling. Now we are presenting results of the difference between CPU heat and water temps, yes? If no one else goes back and checks the results of the TDX using the same testing method how do you know what is right or wrong?
12-02-2007, 10:00 AM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampire_Hunter

No intent to start something here, but what do you see that is whack? Have you tested all those blocks they show in that link?

Is this not showing what you have found already, that the XT DI cools better than the competition though extremely restrictive?

Unfortunately my German skills are lacking here. What does it say under each chart? What is the reference to 60% and 100%?

First, I have not tested all of those blocks, but I have tested 5 of them and where they are placed in that test makes NO SENSE to me whatsoever. I don't know how they tested etc etc. Second, I have found NOTHING about the XT DI yet, I am not complete with the testing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampire_Hunter

Well I think the issue here is what is being tested, no? Not too long ago tests were performed strictly CPU cooling. Now we are presenting results of the difference between CPU heat and water temps, yes? If no one else goes back and checks the results of the TDX using the same testing method how do you know what is right or wrong?

I don't follow you here at all. One can not just give absolute CPU temps as ambient can never be 100% the same unless you spend major dollars on an environmental chamber. The key is to use water temp to cpu temp delta, this way small variences in ambient (2-3C) should be accounted for. No it is not perfect, but it certainly is better than just a CPU number alone.
12-02-2007, 10:21 AM
Vampire_Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

First, I have not tested all of those blocks, but I have tested 5 of them and where they are placed in that test makes NO SENSE to me whatsoever. I don't know how they tested etc etc. Second, I have found NOTHING about the XT DI yet, I am not complete with the testing.

I was referring to what you posted here. Which 5 did you test?

Quote:

I don't follow you here at all. One can not just give absolute CPU temps as ambient can never be 100% the same unless you spend major dollars on an environmental chamber. The key is to use water temp to cpu temp delta, this way small variences in ambient (2-3C) should be accounted for. No it is not perfect, but it certainly is better than just a CPU number alone.

Didn't they use water temps to CPU delta? Perhaps I am reading something different in my rough translation.
12-02-2007, 10:33 AM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampire_Hunter

I was referring to what you posted here. Which 5 did you test?

Didn't they use water temps to CPU delta? Perhaps I am reading something different in my rough translation.

Ahh you missed this post where I said the first test will be discarded due to very low ambient temps: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=45

I have tested (from where is in their tests):

Storm
Apogee GT
Apogee GTX
Fuzion
MP-05 SP LE
12-02-2007, 10:37 AM
SiGfever

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Ahh you missed this post where I said the first test will be discarded due to very low ambient temps: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=45

I have tested (from where is in their tests):

Storm
Apogee GT
Apogee GTX
Fuzion
MP-05 SP LE

Nik,

Has Eddie sent you an EK Supreme for testing yet?
12-02-2007, 10:38 AM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiGfever

Nik,

Has Eddie sent you an EK Supreme for testing yet?

Nope, I thought he was but maybe he isn't IDK.
12-02-2007, 10:44 AM
SiGfever

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Nope, I thought he was but maybe he isn't IDK.

It sure would be nice to have you put one on your test bed to give another view of the block's performance against the top contenders that you have tested. More data is always a good thing. :up:
12-02-2007, 11:27 AM
Vampire_Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Ahh you missed this post where I said the first test will be discarded due to very low ambient temps: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...5&postcount=45

I have tested (from where is in their tests):

Storm
Apogee GT
Apogee GTX
Fuzion
MP-05 SP LE

Yep, missed that one. ;) How much of a difference would the ambient temps affect this if you are measuring the CPU temp to the water temp coming off a block? Seems to me it wouldn't affect it much unless you are running this test bed through a radiator.

So since you didn't test the TDX you have no way of knowing whether your results might show something new, yes? Small differences in testing can create big differences in results, no? Also some of the results shown at aquatuning may very well be within the margin of error. Does anyone here know these guys at Aquatuning so we could get some more information instead of mooing at the moon?

From reading the pic at Aquatuning they showed results with the Swiftech Apogee GTX with the thin type of o-ring. In the side they show the results of the thick o-ring. Is this the same type you tested with? Was your Storm a rev 1 or the rev 2 that Aquatuning used?

Is the order you put the blocks in (that you tested) of some significance here?

Unfortunately, they didn't mention how they did all this, but the important information is the relative index and not the specific temperature deltas, yes? I assume that they have some test bed they use routinely, just like you. Perhaps that information is regularly known to the readers, but not to us. :shrug:
12-02-2007, 11:46 AM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampire_Hunter

Yep, missed that one. ;) How much of a difference would the ambient temps affect this if you are measuring the CPU temp to the water temp coming off a block? Seems to me it wouldn't affect it much unless you are running this test bed through a radiator.

So since you didn't test the TDX you have no way of knowing whether your results might show something new, yes? Small differences in testing can create big differences in results, no? Also some of the results shown at aquatuning may very well be within the margin of error. Does anyone here know these guys at Aquatuning so we could get some more information instead of mooing at the moon?

From reading the pic at Aquatuning they showed results with the Swiftech Apogee GTX with the thin type of o-ring. In the side they show the results of the thick o-ring. Is this the same type you tested with? Was your Storm a rev 1 or the rev 2 that Aquatuning used?

Is the order you put the blocks in (that you tested) of some significance here?

Unfortunately, they didn't mention how they did all this, but the important information is the relative index and not the specific temperature deltas, yes? I assume that they have some test bed they use routinely, just like you. Perhaps that information is regularly known to the readers, but not to us. :shrug:

Ahh yes I am running this through a radiator.
12-02-2007, 11:54 AM
Martinm210

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Nope, I thought he was but maybe he isn't IDK.

He might be waiting until he has the other nozzle plates finished. The run of the mill going out right now is the middle restriction plate. I offered to do some pressure drop testing and that what he told me anyhow.
12-02-2007, 12:25 PM
Vampire_Hunter

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Ahh yes I am running this through a radiator.

Well then I can see why you would want to ditch that result. SoCal is pretty chilly right now. Will you be adjusting the temps in your house or wait for warmer weather?

So what about the rest of my post:

"From reading the pic at Aquatuning they showed results with the Swiftech Apogee GTX with the thin type of o-ring. In the side they show the results of the thick o-ring. Is this the same type you tested with? Was your Storm a rev 1 or the rev 2 that Aquatuning used?"

"Is the order you put the blocks in (that you tested) of some significance here?"

Just trying to make some sense out of all this. :confused: Maybe a link of previous test results? :)
12-02-2007, 12:35 PM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vampire_Hunter

Well then I can see why you would want to ditch that result. SoCal is pretty chilly right now. Will you be adjusting the temps in your house or wait for warmer weather?

So what about the rest of my post:

"From reading the pic at Aquatuning they showed results with the Swiftech Apogee GTX with the thin type of o-ring. In the side they show the results of the thick o-ring. Is this the same type you tested with? Was your Storm a rev 1 or the rev 2 that Aquatuning used?"

"Is the order you put the blocks in (that you tested) of some significance here?"

Just trying to make some sense out of all this. :confused: Maybe a link of previous test results? :)

I don't test in my house, in my office (lab :D )

http://www.anonforums.com/builds/tes...setup/full.jpg

I've tested both o-rings of the GT and GTX, the performance is NOT very good compared to the fat o-ring... the storm I have is a rev 1 but there is no real performance difference in rev 1 and 2.

All my threads that i started, lots of info: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...archid=4925317
12-02-2007, 01:01 PM
Jupiler

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

Umm no offence but those results are so whack, I don't even know where to begin. Those numbers go against everything I have seen in my own testing.

Those tests were done on a Core Duo setup and Radical_53 did the tests.
Everybody who read the magazine was surprised about the results, specially for the TDX.
But hey, who am I to say if those tests are done badly or the results unreliable.
Ask Radical_53 about it, he's the only one who can give you the answer.

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