I fully understood the above, I was just wondering what specific applications you are referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
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I fully understood the above, I was just wondering what specific applications you are referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by STEvil
quite likely you'd have to induce a rotation in the jet(s) on the inlet. Chemical surfacing techniques may be needed..
playing the devil's advocate here a bit and this probably would not be cost effective but
What if the base was made from industrial grade diamond powder bonded with a thermal epoxy such as EP34AN in a injection mold? That would get the thermal conductivity up from solid copper or silver I would think. How much of course would be dependent on the eopxy.
Wouldn't the diamond grains have to be touching each other to transmit the heat really well? Otherwise the epoxy would be transmitting most of the heat with the diamond grains just helping a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound53
I had a thought, how about a tight grid of heatpipes sticking up from the base (shorter than those used in air cooling) and then cooling the heatpies with water? Heatpipes are the most effective form of transmitting heat in heatsinks so I would think it would be even more effective to cool them with water instead of air?
Rotating jets and a diamond base would probably improve performance but I doubt that's what he's got in mind, sounds like he's using something simpler.
Maybe the block hasn't got any base? Direct IHS/die cooling, think maze4 but with the base as top and no base. It would explain the low pressure drop but I doubt that it would perform very well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AzraelDarkangel
DamnifIknow. I would think the density of the dust would come into effect but really all I was doing was throwing an idea out. I will let the thermal engineers pick it apart.
I think that Thrilla might have give something like a Diamond powder TIM a try a while ago, but the diamond wasn't really doing much heat transfer, because it would need to be touching both surfaces to transfer well, or something of that nature.
this guy is talking about budget blocks.......they will cost the same as ApogeeQuote:
Originally Posted by Hound53
I would think that the TIM would just be the dust in suspension.
What I was thinking more of was using the EP34AN in it's lower viscosity form to just encapsulate the diamond grains in a high density block with only a molecule or two of the epoxy between the grains.
As far as cost, diamond dust is cheaper than copper however I don't know squat about the viability of injection molding using epoxy as a bond not to mention the cost factor.
Maybe it's just me...but my "BS" meter is pegged.
Call me a skeptic, but I'll believe it when I see it.
-Ghent
everyone is talking about surface but how can it affect it by 10C......that is not possible..............10C is WAY TOO BIG a difference unless something other than water is used................Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound53
i would hazard to say it's just relying on crappy sensors to get results rather than anything else
I agree, I was just throwing some stuff out. I am fairly familiar with Fourier and Newton to a degree at least ( no pun intended) and there is not enough of a temp differential to get that much of a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by dinos22
think of it this way, when u touch a peice of metal its always colder than the air it seems. so its definately easy to get a block that will cool to below ambeint.
just a joke fellas
Well how big a piece of artificially made diamond can they make? Just make the whole base out of diamond...of course something that size and specific dimension would cost a fortune...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hound53
I don't take his claims at face value.
He seems very confident, though; only a real fool would blatantly lie to the world.
He might have something worth looking at though.
Likely, something isn't on the level, probably his testing methods.
BTW, his claims for near ambient temperatures are possible with non-chilled water cooling. The big catch is what CPU you are cooling, plus whatever else could factors into the heat transfer equation.
EDIT:
By someone who appears to be in the know.Quote:
Keep in mind that the prototypes haven't been sent out to testers yet..... You guys should wait until it has been fully tested to demand test results.
By the guy making it.Quote:
...the idea has more than proven itself over years already - there just has not been a real attempt, or way, to make it work for a length of time or to be done safely...
"Dubious"? Boy that's an understatement! :hammer:Quote:
Originally Posted by clokker
:slapass: :worm:Quote:
Originally Posted by mnewxcv
As for the block in question, its safe to assume that his testing methodology sucks horribly and is giving him these differences of 10C over likely a single test, with the storm on a kaka mount and with a kaka pump and 120mm rad or something.
It still wouldnt account for 10C but it has to be something with his testing.
I sent an e-mail to Northwizard inviting him to talk to us himself and gave him a link to this thread.
we'll just have to wait and see and read and compare.
Oh boi.... we are gonna see some conflicts flame up, aren't we? :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by AzraelDarkangel
About time! I was getting bored to all this serenity on the watercooling
forums...
Nothing xtreme to "cool" off these days. :D Hahahaha.."cool"...haha...ha....oh...
Sorry, I'll never do that again :D
I was attempting to be mature and maintain an open mind but that was before I read his entire thread on the Xoxide forum (this thread has been linked there BTW, much to the derision and amusement of North's fan base).Quote:
Originally Posted by qdemn7
Quazi's wish that we remain open-minded and wait for results is certainly not reflected in North's grandiose claims for this product.
Not only does he provocatively declare that his block will render all others obsolete (in so many words) but says that tests have already shown this to be true.
These claims start several months ago but there is not one shred of evidence (independent or not) to back up these assertions.
Not only is there a magic waterblock but LO!, an entire range of new products (the nature of which is also unexplained) that will rock our socks.
I can understand the desire to protect intellectual property (although there are fairly standard methods of doing so that don't require total blackout of details) but the secrecy coupled with the brazen claims invite skepticism and, as time passes, disdain.
After all, there are people already possessed of the equipment and experience (and, not coincidentally, are familiar with NDAs) to whom these blocks could have been sent for prototype testing.
But no, that's not the path he chose...instead he solicited "beta testers" from amongst the Xoxide choir.
So yeah, "dubious" is how I remain.
D.O.S mentioned a Direct/IHS or Direct/Core water-block that would eliminate the blocks base and thermal paste. (At least I think that what he meant) It makes sense. It would be a real pain to seal. But I think it would show a decent improvement. Also I wonder if "North" meant F or C for his degrees. But near ambient load temps. Unless he's got the thing undervolted and underclocked. I kinda' think he may have overestimated. But maybe not. Still it's interesting to wait and see. The more I think about it. The more sure I am that,that's what he's up to. Good idea! Might be tuff to implement though. (Thanks D.O.S.)
Recent post on Xoxide:
http://www.xoxideforums.com/watercoo...r-block-8.html
Quote:
I have no argument with xtremesystems forums or anyone on it, and only have respect for the members there.
I have not bashed anyone there, nor will I.
So far though... all I can say is that only a very limited few have opened up their minds and thought past current ideas, and those people actually realize that if you just drop the idea of the conventional water block, completely, and start from another approach, that what I am saying is not only possible, but extremely easy to accomplish - it is the design that is holding things back, not the actual way of cooling... just how it is implemented.
and, like I have said... and this is an EXTREMELY SIMPLE CONCEPT for anyone to understand... all of the design, manufacturing of parts, prototyping... EVERYTHING - has come out of my OWN pocket... so I must believe in what I am doing, and it also proves I am NOT out to scam ANYONE.
I have no idea what has got everyone in such an uproar... I am trying to design a new water block, nothing more... it is costing no one but myself any money... if it works like I say it will... everyone will benefit, if not... I will be the only one to lose anything.
so what the heck is the problem? or are people just to closed minded to think that there is any other possible way to cool a cpu than ro use a block of copper, milled or formed in some way, a nozzle, and some thermal paste - think about it people, please... it is NOT the only way... but to some, thinking outside of current, accepted methods, comes very hard... and those are the people who watch, as others do.
~NortH~
What bothers me is the other products marketed under his name on the xoxide site and a few others... the heat exchangers are a bit of a neat idea, but are made of aluminum.
They do give him precident though, that he is building -something-.
I'll hold my tongue until I see performance numbers and pics.
Going back to direct die and alternate compounds, anyone remember Spode from Spode's abode playing with a porous material and direct die applications on a Duron?
I didn't know about "Spode" until you mentioned him.(Maybe I forgot sounds aweful familar) I googled him up. And he's still out there. LOL I found this:
http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/directdie3
Still looking for more info about it.(He had trouble sealing it up.)
Heres Spodes Index page(More stuff here):
http://www.spodesabode.com/content/page/articles
Edit: Looks like he got some good results:
http://www.spodesabode.com/content/article/directdie2
Thanks STEvil.