OMFG! You're trying to tell us that your cpu ran "sluggish" at stock speed because you think that the IHS wasn't flat enough? I wish you guys would just stick with AMD...Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG30
Printable View
OMFG! You're trying to tell us that your cpu ran "sluggish" at stock speed because you think that the IHS wasn't flat enough? I wish you guys would just stick with AMD...Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG30
yeah, that statement was a bit over the top, sluggish by contact, and better after contact at stock, Methinks his imagination has gotten the better of him.
And the AMD comment Fred, be nice, I am back from AMD, but I just buy what is the better performer at the time of upgrade, I have zero brand loyalty, just want the best I can afford.
I apologize for my "Lestat" moment but I guess, like Lestat, I too am losing patience with all the n00bs who can't properly apply thermal compound and/or attach their heatsinks on the first try and then claim to have reduced their cpu temp by over 10C just by lapping their IHS. I've been around this long enough to know how incredibly improbable that is.Quote:
Originally Posted by linflas
Maybe some C2D IHS are actually bad enough to show more than a trivial benefit from lapping but I'm seeing people making ridiculous claims ranging from "Intel won't spend $.05 to put a flat IHS on a $1000 cpu" to conspiracy theories that Intel is intentionally making the IHS uneven to hinder overclocking and/or to force overclockers to lap the IHS and void their warranty.
I guess I'll go watch some TV now. I've apparently exceeded my RDA of st00pidity...
I got a 3-5C drop when I lapped mine, I try to use very little AS5 when making contact with the blocks, lapping made a difference for me, just my experience with it.
I have an apogee water block which has a fairly large copper base, so the edges being raised made a difference, tried using the "slap on AS5 method" it also gave me a 2-3C shift in the wrong direction, that is why I chose to lap.
There are a few bad ones out their, but I think it is mostly just wishing these damn C2D's were a bit cooler when you have voltage running through them. They make quick work of moderate water cooling, and high end air, so phase seems to be about the only way to keep these little SOB's cool
:rofl: now that gave me a good laugh :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
You know your comment really was not needed. Why don't you take your smart a*s comments somewhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
I KNOW the computer was running sluggish. I have a few E6400 systems here and it's not like I couldn't compare numbers and results to another system. The Temps were rediculously high for even stock speeds with stock HSF. The computer did run sluggish. Comparing it to a old AMD64 it actually felt slower. It would constantly "hang" if you will when trying to open programs and such. After doing "minor" lapping of the CPU and running it again onthe stock HSF the temps were considerable better and the "sluggish" speeds went away.
I'd appreciate it if you didn't try to talk down to me as if I was just some uneducated little kid. If you don't like what I have to say then please keep your smart a*s comments to yourself. I've been in the computers industry for MANY years. I'm not new to this or intel.
I think you have a lot of growing up to do if thats how you talk or treat people...even if it is just over the internet.
you must realize that dell also sells CPUs to OEMs liek dell and HP who do not use intels stock cooling. I doubt any of the consiracy theories are valid. I think Intel just f'ed up. The end.
Also I would like to know what makes you not a noob (since thats the cool word you kiddies use today). And don't tell me because you know people on the internet forums or you've been around for a long time or whatever. I want to know what credentials make you special. What do you do for a living? Education? etc? Really curious about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
Also let me point out that I did not say that there was any conspiracy theory. Sounds almost like you think I or someone is a AMD lover. Which for you knowledge I am not.
All I am pointing out is that I had a bad experience here with one of my CPU's. I probably should have RMA'ed it. The temperatures were just very very bad. And yes I DO know how to attach a HSF and apply thermal paste. I'm so tired of people acting like that is brain surgery or something. If you honestly can't do that you're a retard. But you don't have to just take my word for it. There was a link (can't remember if it's in this thread or not) where it clearly shows one of the WORST contact areas most here have probably ever seen. Also it was clear that he did apply the paste and HSF correctly as there was paste all along where the edges of the IHS were but completely clean in the center. No one here is beating up on Intel or saying the is a conspiracy. All I am simply stating is that I wish they would work on making them as flat as possible from the factory. Don't agree with me....thats fine...but don't belittle me or anyone else opinions just as we don't belittle yours.
Of course you could avoid this by not making such ridiculous claims... :slap: Of course I don't have a horse in the race so "Lap Away"... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG30
And I'd bet that Dell and HP aren't lapping... :)Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink
my step father just ordered an overpriced Dell with a c2d e6400 in it. I could tell you if nthey lap or not... in about a year or two...
Sorry to cause you such offense. I didn't know you were so thin-skinned.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG30
Obviously you didn't have the heatsink properly installed the first time, the cpu was predictably overheating and throttling and you got the heastsink properly installed after lapping.
I'm sorry if it doesn't please you but it's going to take a lot more than your opinion to convince me that your IHS was so uneven that it caused a E6400 to hit 85C at stock speed and Vcore with a properly installed HSF and TIM.
Yeah you're probably right, it'll take 'em that long to dump all the "NetBurst" stuff out for Intel...Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink
Okay, I'm not going to write my autobiography here but I will tell you that computers are a hobby for me. I built my first PC in 1987 and I've been overclocking since my 486DX2-50 @66. I'm just a guy who builds and fixes PCs for himself, his friends and family and has been for almost 20 years. At 43, I'll take your "kiddie" comment as a compliment. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG30
As for that photo that you claim shows "one of the worst" TI contact, I saw it and it appeared to me that it was taken after hand-placing the HS on the IHS without applying Intel's recommended 40lbf of heatsink tension (18-70lbf range) The thermal paste very clearly had not been subject to any compression-induced spread in that photo. Did you notice how blotchy and uneven it was? Try it yourself and I guarantee you won't see that result unless you fail to apply any pre-load to the HS.
Here's a good read: ftp://download.intel.com/design/proc...x/31368501.pdf
Not thin-skinned, just don't appreciate people being rude to others. Isn't this world bad enough already where we don't need to resort to being offensive to each other over the internet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
Truthfully I have no reason to go on with this discussion. I have nothing to prove to you or anyone here. And honestly why would I care to? If you don't want to take my word for it then that is perfectly fine. I know what I saw happen in front of my eyes. Do you really think it is that hard to apply thermal grease? And to make such a dramatic difference you would have to really mess it up. Just so you know I didn't apply any thermal paste the first time. I took it right out of the box and applied a stock unit with the stock paste on the CPU. I did this because I wanted to see how it performed RIGHT out of the box for my own knowledge. Not to come on here and make a career out of explaining to people my findings (I do enough of that at work)...just simply for my own knowledge. If you honestly think I did not install the stock HSF correctly then fine. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to install one. There rather idiot proof. Push down till you hear a click...pretty easy. I distictly remember checking it multiple times to make sure each corner was clipped in. I even tried to pull up on each corner to see if it would dislodge but to no avail.
So I can honestly say to myself that I was satisfied with the installation of the unit...to me my satisfaction is all that matters.
After reading this thread, I checked out one of my 3 cd2s that I was about to put a new scythe infinity on. Used a razorblade with a light behind it, and it was definitely concave. If I planned on runnning at stock, I wouldn't care, but these things really do heat up when you push 'em, so I am definitely going to lap the edges down. Not making good contact in the center of the chip will make a significant difference and 10 degrees is not at all out of the question. We're not talking about lapping the machine marks out of an otherwise flat heat-sink, we taliking about a gap I would not trust to as5. If an aftermarket heatsink maker's product were obviously concave, they would not be in business very long. I'm sure intel would not do so on purpose, and probably works very hard not to do it all, but obviosly some have slipped through. My other two were pretty much flat and I didn't bother lapping either surface.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
Thats a good point. I honestly didn't bother reading his post because I was to busy finishing up work. I just took a glance at the pictures and they looked horrific...worse then even mine. Since we was using a aftermarket HSF then that could very well be the case. Still though it doesn't explain the problem that I had. I'm sure the sotck HSF (when properly installed) supplies the correct amount of pressure.
You can't sit there though and say that there aren't going to be issues with flatness, contact,and such. I mean are you going to dismiss the fact the mine and a large group of others also had only half of the northbridge contacting on the P5B deluxe? The point I'm making is there are always going to be issues. Maybe I encountered one of these issues. I'm not here to speculate on how wide spread this issue is or will become or even if others are experiencing it. Jut my own.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to install the stock Intel HSF but IMO it's not as idiot-proof as you suggest. Lots of smart people have had problems installing it correctly. It's a :banana::banana::banana::banana:ty design and not very difficult to screw up the installation.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG30
Anyway, glad you got the problem fixed even if I don't necessarily agree on what the problem was. ;)
PS; if we can't be rude to each other on the www, where can we in today's touchy-feely PC world?
*delivers Fred a swift knee to the groin for the AMD user=n00b comment*
There'll always be corner cases and defective units and if that is truly your case then you should indeed RMA, but alot of the people in this topic (and others) are presenting this as some sort of conspiracy and/or Intel screwing up all the C2D's when its not, its /them/ screwing up and/or OC'ing and then being shocked that they get high temps.Quote:
Originally Posted by JayG30
If that is indeed peoples intentions (a.k.a making it sounds like a conspiracy) then I agree with both of you. I to do not see a conspiracy. I've delt with intel for a long time. I've had my problems here in there but the same can be said with any product I've owned or worked with. Over the years I've found Intel to serve me best. I have a deep respect for what they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by mesyn191
Also no need to RMA the product. Spent about 5 hours just lapping the CPU and another hour or so on the heatsink and things are very good now. :) But watching how the copper exposed also reassured me that the CPU was anything but flat. The copper showed through along all 4 edges within the first 30-45 minutes of lapping. The rest didn't start showing up till several hours had past.
I agree with you on that. In order to properly test whether the CPU is concave one should mount it and tighten down the clamps. Lucky for me the apogee waterblock is very easy to remove and secure without having to remove the motherboard, which is what you'd probably have to do to get those push pins on the stock heatsink out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred_Pohl
People can say what they want, but mine was very concave, it just was. I don't care, and I'm not really complaining. Quite the contrary, I think it's clever what they are doing.
Whoaw, some people just can't admit a simple and proven thing like there are many procs that came with a bad IHS. If you don't think what they think, they'll call you noob, pretending you don't know jack about what you're talking about, using dumb arguments like "I too am losing patience with all the n00bs who can't properly apply thermal compound and/or attach their heatsinks on the first try and then claim to have reduced their cpu temp by over 10C just by lapping their IHS", so first the user is so nOOb (i used OO caps to look as cool as mentioned member) he can't install his HSF correct, he then laps the IHS and all of a sudden is no nOOb anymore and can mount it perfect which explains the great temp improvement, the lapping having nothing to do with it. What a load of BS.
Yeah, people with concave IHS that are not satisfied are just AMD nOObs :rolleyes:
I don't buy the conspiracy theory either, just stating the obvious, some of the IHS out there are uber crappy regarding flatness, which is IMPORTANT to a lot of people.
If you IHS is concaved does that warrent a return? Would the store you bought it from take it back?
Seeing as how the differance in temperature is greater than 10 degrees.
since i started the thread i might as well chime in. didn't forsee the turn this thread would take but it makes for fun reading. all flaming aside, i should have taken pictures of the stages of lapping which would have rendered the 'user error' arguments null and void.
i lapped using glass as the sub surface for the paper and wet sanded the chip. started with coarse (150 grit) paper and small circular sanding motion. wipe the chip down with alchohol and examine. the entire outside edge of the IHS showed a uniform amount of copper, the center 80%+/- had very slight abrasion marks, but codes etc were all still visible. now i am no engineer, but that is what is called concave.
i have overclocked every piece of hardware that will overclock since my first P60 12 years ago, i have cooled chips with tecs, built watercooling for my tbird before you could buy water cooling gear (had to solder a block together out of copper stock, go to a junk yard for a heater core and a pet shop for a pump), and on and on. aka probably don't qualify as a n00b.
in the end i have had a very drastic and pleasing reduction in load temps with this little E6400 beauty and can now run it at 3.6ghz @ 1.46vcore and keep load temps in the mid 60s. the intent of the thread was to point that out to others that certainly own chips with similar IHS. If you don't overclock then leave the chip alone. if you do and you want to maximize your cooling check your IHS and if it is badly concave, consider lapping. simple as that.
Think maybe you guys are wearing this one out...
Why not make it simple. If you believe or are concerned that your IHS isn't flat, exercise your options: Lap - Accept as is - RMA
Quality control discussions, conspiracy theories, and general attacks on each other haven't fixed a single problem here...
My 2cents, Regards- :) :)