Wrote a small article on chipset strap etc

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22297

I know its a double post but with the added info it explains a ton of 5h1t you guys are going thru.

Please read it, if you are struggling with anything post here and I will try and explain it further.

Threads merged and moved to more suitable section - bachus_anonym

Does these tips apply to 965 as well?

you done any research into the 965 setup Tony.

considering the 965 is showing more oddness to its overclocking.

such as FSB walls that stop dead in their tracks at 400mhz FSB.
things such as DRam freq's that refuse to go over 950mhz (which points more to ram, but at the same time, why would the 6400 XTC go over 1000 and the gskill 6400 HZ's stop at 950mhz ?)
the HZ's without a doubt can OC much higher than the XTC's)

any indication of why a lower multiplier on the cpu instantly yields a much higher FSB.

that to me right now is the most frustrating and yet the most technically intrigueing aspect of any of the intel chipsets.
why is it that a lower multi no matter which cpu you are using gives a higher FSB.

from what i can tell, without knowing white papers front to back, is that its an all out Ghz limitation of the NB chipset. otherwise why would dropping the multi increase the FSB ?

these are important questions i have asked since the conroes were released and will continue to ask until someone here or else where can logically answer them.
unfortunately i doubt intel will be telling us why. so we have to rely on each others research.

Taking this from your guide - "We all know Conroe sets 1066strap; this means it forces the board to boot at 267fsb. Now many boards are hitting a limit at 370fsb and stopping dead, we all know the CPU and ram can clock higher so what is causing the boards to become unstable…the answer is the chipset."

I have a Thermalright HR-05 on my northbridge but I did not strap on the 70mm fan I bought for it. I have hit the wall you are speaking of at 375FSB. I know my RAM is awesome and my CPU should be able to hit 3.2-3.4Ghz and I am guessing its the mobo/bios. (MSI 975X V2)

However, my question is why hasn't anyone in the MSI thread been talking about the northbridge and a replacement for it? I assumed it was not a problem or could it just be people don't understand how important cooling for the northbridge is as well.

Thanks for the guide i have printed it and plan on reading it over and over again untill i begin to understand it. Man i like it better when it was fsb x multiplier = clock speed :) If you have time and could explaing in laymans (amd) terms what our best options are i would apprieciate it. I.E. would it be better for me to strap my memory at say 533 then overclock my cpu bus speed to 425 x 10 or do the reverse strap at 1066 and set cpu bus at 300 x 14 or am i totaly off base and need to go buy a intel overclocking for dummys book and pray :)
Thanks
Lee

Can someone possibly explain this in terms an AMD guy can understand?

http://www.bleedinedge.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22297

Is this relevant?

Is this saying you cannot use a memory overclock divider (i.e. 4:5) AND a high FSB speed at the same time?

Sheesh. :confused:

Threads merged - bachus_anonym

you need to PM Tony, I do believe he is a member/mod here. Also note that all that information makes sense if you are using an Asus MB which has a drop down menu that shows you all the options as he posted on the thread.

965 works just the same way as 975 which works just the same as 955 etc etc etc.

965 is a more overclockable chipset than 975, so where the 975 stops with the CPU fsb at 370 ish the 965 is stopping at 400 or so unless you manipulate the strap on the chipset to lower its overall clock.

I can not stress the following enough to you guys.

Many of you are blaming ram for poor overclocking etc when infact its the chipset that is holding you all back. On intel systems you are overclocking 3 things similtaniously, the CPU, the chipset and the memory, all 3 things have to be in balance to get stability.

Some of these huge 500+fsb overclocks are purely managed on the back of very high chipset voltages which are needed to force the chipset to manage huge overclocks. Some people do get lucky and get a NB that clocks like a god...they do exist just as golden CPU's do and GPU's.

Also the wierd memory ratio's (1067 888 712 etc) are the product of chipset strap manipulation, you all have to be aware that this alters how the chipset will overclock and how it controls the memory. It usually will not clock as well although even at lower clocks the memory performance may be better. Also as I mentioned in the guide im already seeing boards setting the 800 strap for 533(1:1) mode with end users complaining they can not do 400fsb 1:1 for DDR800 on their ram so the ram must be faulty. Issue is the ram does ddr800 fine in 667 or 800 mode as the chipset is back at normal clocks and can control the memory a lot easier.

Nice work there Tony mate

Big question - when will we see some of tony's modded BIOS for the Asus P5W DH mobo? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by maverik-sg1

Nice work there Tony mate

Big question - when will we see some of tony's modded BIOS for the Asus P5W DH mobo? :)

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Already done some, using them internally..IE they will not be released as of yet

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

965 works just the same way as 975 which works just the same as 955 etc etc etc.

965 is a more overclockable chipset than 975, so where the 975 stops with the CPU fsb at 370 ish the 965 is stopping at 400 or so unless you manipulate the strap on the chipset to lower its overall clock.

I can not stress the following enough to you guys.

Many of you are blaming ram for poor overclocking etc when infact its the chipset that is holding you all back. On intel systems you are overclocking 3 things similtaniously, the CPU, the chipset and the memory, all 3 things have to be in balance to get stability.

Some of these huge 500+fsb overclocks are purely managed on the back of very high chipset voltages which are needed to force the chipset to manage huge overclocks. Some people do get lucky and get a NB that clocks like a god...they do exist just as golden CPU's do and GPU's.

Also the wierd memory ratio's (1067 888 712 etc) are the product of chipset strap manipulation, you all have to be aware that this alters how the chipset will overclock and how it controls the memory. It usually will not clock as well although even at lower clocks the memory performance may be better. Also as I mentioned in the guide im already seeing boards setting the 800 strap for 533(1:1) mode with end users complaining they can not do 400fsb 1:1 for DDR800 on their ram so the ram must be faulty. Issue is the ram does ddr800 fine in 667 or 800 mode as the chipset is back at normal clocks and can control the memory a lot easier.

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yup even a bad mount of northbridge/mch heatsink on the MCH core would result in poorer memory clocks and lower fsb !

bad mount saw my mem clock drop from 490mhz 4-4-4-12 at 2.2v to 476mhz 4-4-4-12 and 433mhz 4-4-3-8 at 2.2v

good mount saw my mem clock go back to 490mhz 4-4-4-12 at 2.2v but best of all i jumped from 433mhz 4-4-3-8 to 488mhz 4-4-3-8 at 2.2v
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=110938 !

great guide Tony! I am still a bit fuzzy coming from a 939 rig to Conroe, but im sure once i get into the bios and start overclocking everything will click as to what you were referring to. Not having it in front of me makes it difficult for me to follow, i have to do it myself to really understand.

Ok so how do we force a different strap on the chipset? Is that something has to be done to hack the bios or any other ways?

Somone help me out here
On an Asus P5W they have the following options when choosing Dram Frequency @ 267:
Auto
400
533
667
711
800
889
1067
(using the manual)

Now if I am reading this right are:
Auto, 400, 533, 667 -->all on the 800 strap??
711, 800, 889, 1067 -->all on the 1067 strap???

Help me understand this...If the above is right, where is the 1333 strap....or does it lack a 1333 strap?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tony

Already done some, using them internally..IE they will not be released as of yet

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We'd be happy to help you test one:)

Is there anyone who can answer my question in post 64

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Somone help me out here
On an Asus P5W they have the following options when choosing Dram Frequency @ 267:
Auto
400
533
667
711
800
889
1067
(using the manual)

Now if I am reading this right are:
Auto, 400, 533, 667 -->all on the 800 strap??
711, 800, 889, 1067 -->all on the 1067 strap???

Help me understand this...If the above is right, where is the 1333 strap....or does it lack a 1333 strap?

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Almost:

533, 667, 800, should all be on the 1067 strap (stock strap for Conroe)

400, 711, 889, and 1067 would be on the 800 strap which would overclock the memory controller (MCH).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Now if I am reading this right are:
Auto, 400, 533, 667 -->all on the 800 strap??
711, 800, 889, 1067 -->all on the 1067 strap???

Help me understand this...If the above is right, where is the 1333 strap....or does it lack a 1333 strap?

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all, except of 711 and 889 are 1066 strap dividers.
711 is 3:4 and prolly belongs to 800 strap
889 is 3:5 and also from 800 strap.. so beware using those :-P
but i guess they will provide the most tight nb timings..

asus boards (at least p5wdh) seem to lack nb strap 1333.

Excellent guide Tony. Although I'm not entirely sure I understand everything, this guide has most certainly helped clarify a few things for me. The study session continues.....

Hey Tony, a massive thanks for that guide you posted at bleedinedge, I understood every bit of it.

I am about to purchase an Asus P5B Delux, now I have never oveclocked an Intel board before, but I doubt I will find that an issue finding my way around theBIOS etc. Anyway I am just wondering is there anyway to force a certain strap on these boards?

Perhaps a BSEL pin/pad mod?

well i just tried to cover BSEL2 pin to force 333MHz boot and therefore nbstrap 1333 on asus p5wdh - it's no use :)
max strap is still 266.. as for lower straps i don't know - but in asus bioses, from 266fsb, all 1066 strap dividers plus all others are available, forcing nb strap to lower value, if selected.

http://alpha.frontier86.ee/~markku/975/bsel2.jpg

So the saga continues...how to make a board ubber fast at stock speeds so reviews look awesome

Now you all seem to have a reasonable idea of how straps work i will show you how the motherboard manufacturers manipulate them in bios to make the boards work faster than the competition in reviews.

Using a conroe, which has 1066 strap and 267fsb we all know that 1:1 is 533 on the memory. Now if you want your board to work around 5% faster all you do is lower the strap but keep the ram ratio at 1:1.So you force the strap on the clockgenerator to 1066 but you trick the NB to run on the 800 strap in 400 mode.
On a 965 board this would allow 400fsb+ in theory on the CPU but there is no way the NB would run on the high 800strap internal multi and high bus speed without luck in you gettting awsome silicon and a ton of voltage.
At 267fsb on the CPU though the NB stands a good chance of working just fine, its moderately overclocked but not to stressed....and you gain 5% or so performance from the memory which transaltes into more FPS in game benches.

This is why when I ask you to test ram you need to do it with the 667 or 800 memory ratio, i already know 712,888 and 1067 are 800 strap, what i don't know is what 533 is latched too, as it could easy be off the 800 strap to improve performance at low clocks 1:1.

Call me an oversimplifying loon... but it sounds to me like chipset straps are the Intel version of the HTT multiplier.

Technically different, by a mile, but from the point of view of an overclocker, they are both something on the board that has to be loosened to avoid a third barrier, unrelated to both CPU and memory. In light of limiting overclocks, is this view correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chocolate Pi

Call me an oversimplifying loon... but it sounds to me like chipset straps are the Intel version of the HTT multiplier.

Technically different, by a mile, but from the point of view of an overclocker, they are both something on the board that has to be loosened to avoid a third barrier, unrelated to both CPU and memory. In light of limiting overclocks, is this view correct?

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God I hope you are onto something here... Otherwise I still don't have a clue what this is about and I've been beating my head against the wall on this coming from AMD. :brick:

Is the strap like a clock ratio for the North Bridge (either like a divider or multiplier)?!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eastcoasthandle

Somone help me out here
On an Asus P5W they have the following options when choosing Dram Frequency @ 267:
Auto
400
533
667
711
800
889
1067
(using the manual)

Now if I am reading this right are:
Auto, 400, 533, 667 -->all on the 800 strap??
711, 800, 889, 1067 -->all on the 1067 strap???

Help me understand this...If the above is right, where is the 1333 strap....or does it lack a 1333 strap?

---

To find the correct strap values let's put what tony said in formula:
Ram_Freq=2*FSB_freq*north_multi/mem_div
where:
Ram_Freq is DDR freq (DDR clock*2, this explains the "2" term in the right)
FSB_freq is the base FSB freq (so for 1066 FSB_freq=1066/4=266)
north_multi give us the Northbridge frequency. We have:
533_strap -> north_multi = 3
800 strap -> north_multi = 2
1066 strap -> north_multi = 3/2
1333 strap -> north_multi = 6/5
Note for 533_strap tony speaked of 6 multi, but it referred to FSB_freq/2, so i'm saying the same thing.
mem_div can be set to the following values:
2
3/2
6/5
1
So for a 266 FSB we can have the following "mem ratios":
533_strap-> 800, 1066, 1333, 1600
800_strap-> 533, 711, 889, 1066
1066_strap-> 400, 533, 667, 800
1333_strap-> 320, 427, 533, 640
Because P5W uses only 800_strap and 1066_strap for 1066 FSB we have the following:
Auto -> it depends on RAM spd
400 -> 1066_strap
533 (1:1) -> can be either 800_strap or 1066_strap (but i think p5W uses 1066 strap)
667 -> 1066_strap
711 -> 800_strap
800 -> 1066_strap
889 -> 800_strap
1067 -> 800_strap

Now based on the strap table above, as tony said, we can have 1:1 with 1333 strap too, in this case the FSB at which the north would be overclocked is:
FSB=400/(6/5)=333, so if the north has its wall at 375 FSB with 1066 strap in this case the wall would be shifted at 469...