Modified alphacool top performance

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07-01-2006, 03:33 AM
Radical_53

@neal: I'm using Water Wetter most of the time. Zerex doesn't smell as bad, but I'm not sure of the other differences between the two. Both should do the job well.

@joe: Yes, let's see when that happens. I'll keep you posted if there's anything new.
07-01-2006, 04:21 AM
nealh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Radical_53

@neal: I'm using Water Wetter most of the time. Zerex doesn't smell as bad, but I'm not sure of the other differences between the two. Both should do the job well.

@joe: Yes, let's see when that happens. I'll keep you posted if there's anything new.

thanks
07-01-2006, 07:15 AM
Smalltimer

Quote:

Originally Posted by creidiki

Apart from efficiency losses because of tubing etc, 2 in series have the same max flow as 1 pump and double the max head.

So you'd be looking at something like 40ft head... o.Ó

Would two pumps in series create stronger a impingement effect with a storm Rev2 waterblock? Will it help lower temps by reducing flow restrictions within the loop?
07-03-2006, 10:16 PM
andersson.j

Finally! No more work for six days!
I'll try to get some testing done but beer always comes first. :toast:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smalltimer

Would two pumps in series create stronger a impingement effect with a storm Rev2 waterblock? Will it help lower temps by reducing flow restrictions within the loop?

Two pumps in series = higher head = higher flow = better performing Storm. It won't reduce flow restrictions but it will overcome them better. You will see lower temps if the increased flow is more positive than the extra heat dump is negative.
07-03-2006, 11:54 PM
tw33ter

How well would a loop like this work, or do you need to actually place the pumps one right after the other?

ddc #1 > storm > ddc #2 > mp-1 > res > t-line
would a push/pull config benefit the storm?

vs

ddc #1 > ddc #2 > storm > mp-1 > res > t-line
07-04-2006, 12:03 AM
Radical_53

I would place them one right after the other. Pumps can't pull their water and a starving DDC isn't something you'd want to have.
07-04-2006, 06:56 AM
nealh

Interestingly I went back to my MCP655 spec..max head of 3.1m, max flow of 1200l/h

Unmodded DDC+ max head 4.7m!!! and max flow of 600l/h...so unmodded this looks realy nice and modded I hope there is not a big drop on max head

This DDC+ is really a better pump than MCP655 since max head is so important..correct...

Crap..I should have bought that 2nd DDC+ when I had the chance and run them in series...
07-04-2006, 07:35 AM
Thomas FJ

The DDC Ultra is a monster... It's got nearly 50% more head than the 10W version... Actually it draws 22W of power, not 18W as rated :)

A review will follow soon to proof my statements.
/Thomas
07-04-2006, 07:47 AM
nikhsub1

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas FJ

The DDC Ultra is a monster... It's got nearly 50% more head than the 10W version... Actually it draws 22W of power, not 18W as rated :)

A review will follow soon to proof my statements.
/Thomas

That could be true at WIDE open flow, it also depends on how much 12v your PSU is supplying. The more restriction you feed the pump (any pump for that matter) the less heat it will dump, it will dump the most heat in wide open mode (no restriction).
07-04-2006, 07:48 AM
Petra

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas FJ

The DDC Ultra is a monster... It's got nearly 50% more head than the 10W version... Actually it draws 22W of power, not 18W as rated :)

A review will follow soon to proof my statements.
/Thomas

Well, if by DDC Ultra you're talking about Alphacool's DDC+ (DDC+/DDC-1+/DDC-2TPMP or whatever the hell you wanna call the red-impellered DDC) that comes bundled with an Alphacool plexi top, then I'm not really surprised. I would expect the increase in flow to come with an increase in power consumption. You could just extrapolate the power consumption values of this graph out a little further (I know that the power consumption is non-linear but it would at least give you a general idea of where things are going): http://www.dangerdenstore.com/files/...chart_600w.jpg

Edit: Gah, nikhsub1 beat me to it by a minute... :rolleyes:
07-04-2006, 08:32 AM
nealh

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas FJ

The DDC Ultra is a monster... It's got nearly 50% more head than the 10W version... Actually it draws 22W of power, not 18W as rated :)

A review will follow soon to proof my statements.
/Thomas

modded or unmodded

specs say the 10 w has head of 3.7m..18w of 4.7 m...27%
07-04-2006, 08:33 AM
nealh

I wish someone could now compare an alphatop DDC+(alphatop modded/unmodded) vs Radiical DDC+
07-04-2006, 08:35 AM
andersson.j

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8...art600w3sh.jpg
That's a very interesting curve! The head is in the same region as my tests, 20 feet = 6.1 meters. I wonder where alphacool got their 4.7 meters from?
But my flow results are still abnormally high even if you add 70% for the top mounted inlet, heck it's even high if you add 100%!
07-04-2006, 08:51 AM
nealh

Alphacool specs are for unmodded top

hmm..that is a interesting..this from DD the graph...everyone reports max has 4.7m unmodded......
07-04-2006, 08:55 AM
andersson.j

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealh

Alphacool specs are for unmodded top

Yes, but I suppose that DD's graph are for unmodded too?

Damn DDCs are confusing!
07-04-2006, 09:05 AM
Radical_53

They are, even more than that. Never seen such strange readings as with different DDCs... scores range from no gain in serial to 100% plus... looks like quite some work :(
07-04-2006, 09:13 AM
nealh

damn those results Andersson.j..look great..wish I could do that kinda of work..you modded that top in such a way it looks factory done :)

I bought a Radiical top but kinda wish I got an Alphacool top now(that increased head pressure is awesome)...

I would pay for your work in a heartbeat Andersonn.j
07-04-2006, 02:12 PM
javascripterror

Quote:

Originally Posted by andersson.j

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8...art600w3sh.jpg
That's a very interesting curve! The head is in the same region as my tests, 20 feet = 6.1 meters. I wonder where alphacool got their 4.7 meters from?
But my flow results are still abnormally high even if you add 70% for the top mounted inlet, heck it's even high if you add 100%!

Strange days indeed. Laing say the 18W standard pump develops a max delivery rate of 420 L/h at 12 volts and 600 L/h at 13.2 volts. Pump head by the way is 3.7m at 12 volts and 4.7m at 13.2 volts. To get 6m well I cannot even begin to imagine where that comes from.
07-04-2006, 02:33 PM
nealh

Quote:

Originally Posted by javascripterror

Strange days indeed. Laing say the 18W standard pump develops a max delivery rate of 420 L/h at 12 volts and 600 L/h at 13.2 volts. Pump head by the way is 3.7m at 12 volts and 4.7m at 13.2 volts. To get 6m well I cannot even begin to imagine where that comes from.

no your spec are on the 10w..420 l/h and 3.7m head press
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_i...al-thread.html

18w is 600l/h and 4.7m head pressure
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_i...ddc-1plus.html
07-04-2006, 02:47 PM
javascripterror

Quote:

Originally Posted by nealh

no your spec are on the 10w..420 l/h and 3.7m head press
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_i...al-thread.html

18w is 600l/h and 4.7m head pressure
http://www.alphacool.de/xt/product_i...ddc-1plus.html

Sorry to burst the bubble but that information is also published on the back of the Alphacool packaging for the DDC 18W pump.
07-04-2006, 03:10 PM
nealh

Quote:

Originally Posted by javascripterror

Sorry to burst the bubble but that information is also published on the back of the Alphacool packaging for the DDC 18W pump.

Yeah I was corrected just a bit ago..apparently the 4.7m head pressure at 13.2v

I am sorry...I assumed mistakenly the information reported was clear and correct...

I was wrong sorry for posting my mistake
07-20-2006, 03:26 AM
Thomas FJ

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

That could be true at WIDE open flow, it also depends on how much 12v your PSU is supplying.

That is for wide open flow...
See test setup here

We use a lab PSU to power the pumps...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikhsub1

The more restriction you feed the pump (any pump for that matter) the less heat it will dump, it will dump the most heat in wide open mode (no restriction).

Okay, sounds interesting. Can you explain further?
07-20-2006, 06:19 AM
Got Chow

I've searched some DDC/AC top threads but the confusion has me asking this n00bish question...

I'm assuming that using the inlet at the top is better than using the inlet which is right next to the outlet, correct? Any considerable difference in using the inlet which is next to the outlet vs. using the top one? Routing the tubing would be easier in my case if I used the inlet which is adjacent to the outlet, but I can probably work something else out as well if performance is significantly impaired.

I know that all my big aquarium pumps have the inlets perpendicular to the outlets, and the inlet is always at the base of the impeller with the outlets towards the side... So I am assuming this is the way to go, but if it's a miniscule difference i would probably have the inlet and outlet next to each other for a cleaner tubing run. Or I could just say screw it and put my Iwaki 55RLT on the loop. ;) j/k.
07-20-2006, 06:46 AM
MaGiX

Quote:

Originally Posted by Got Chow

I've searched some DDC/AC top threads but the confusion has me asking this n00bish question...

I'm assuming that using the inlet at the top is better than using the inlet which is right next to the outlet, correct? Any considerable difference in using the inlet which is next to the outlet vs. using the top one? Routing the tubing would be easier in my case if I used the inlet which is adjacent to the outlet, but I can probably work something else out as well if performance is significantly impaired.

I know that all my big aquarium pumps have the inlets perpendicular to the outlets, and the inlet is always at the base of the impeller with the outlets towards the side... So I am assuming this is the way to go, but if it's a miniscule difference i would probably have the inlet and outlet next to each other for a cleaner tubing run. Or I could just say screw it and put my Iwaki 55RLT on the loop. ;) j/k.

Yes, there is significantly more to gain from using the top inlet over the front, and even more to gain if you widen the inlet in the top (using Alphacool or Watercool DDC top) up to around 10 mm (from where I was not able to measure an additional gain in pressure, that part I have not published yet) or using a Radical Top (have not tested one of those yet.)

At this time, i have only published a test of the DDC in three versions, Basis, Pro and Pro AGB (reservoir model) but DDC+ in the three same configurations is imminent (although at first only in Danish, we are in the process of translating the entire site into English, but don’t expect anything soon.)

But P/Q curves is universal (thanks God for that) so a couple of those you can se here:

DDC Pro (top) Vs DDC Basis (front):

http://www.h2okoeling.dk/images/arti...basis_stor.jpg

DDC all configs (also the front on the DDC Pro block):

http://www.h2okoeling.dk/images/arti...umper_stor.jpg

DDC, Laing D5, DangerDen CSP-MAG, Eheim 1048, Eheim 600 station (Alphacool.):

http://h2okoeling.dk/images/articles...e%20pumper.jpg

I do hope that straitens out some of the confusion.

MaGiX

Edit: If someone got a spare Radical top the don’t use, I would love to make a full comparison for all the different tops on the market. I tried to write to the shop in Australia where I have seen them, but got no reply at all. I live in Denmark, so as close to DK as possible thanks :P
07-20-2006, 07:22 AM
Got Chow

Thanks for the graphs. I saw that in another thread and it had some good comparison numbers. I did not realize the first graph showed the difference b/w the AlphaCool top with the top inlet vs. the stock DDC. The 2nd graph tells a lot too. I have a 10W DDC with the AC top waiting to be installed. Looks like I will have to use the "top" inlet and drill it out a little bit as well.

Thanks for the clarification and your test results, very helpful.

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