heh, heh...that instapak system is way cool! Nice to see you are as careful with packaging as you are with design and build!
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heh, heh...that instapak system is way cool! Nice to see you are as careful with packaging as you are with design and build!
wow jinu you make these things look like more and more of a bargain.
still haven't successfully used my VapoLi(killed my mobo during insulation), yet, i still think of it as part of the family...works of art if you ask me
This one is for Complete :) I know you are getting anxious after the delay and the problem I had with startup unit. Well, it's breezed through last minute check and ready to be packed :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9084.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9085.JPG
One quirk with this unit. Froster read temp about 12c higher than it should. So I put appropirate offset for the system.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9080
I've always had 3-5c variance between frosters but this goes to extreme on this one.
Looking good!! Cant wait!
Jinu117 - God i hope that picture is deciving. Remember all those Dimensions I gave you. :)
But I am sure its alll good!
I got my DLH tracking number! How long does it take usually to Ohio? I just realized I live 5 minutes from OPB!! hahah..
GO BUCKEYES!
Bit of update. Vapochill LS mod is getting prepped up, 2 v2000 builds are in progress (need to extend load testing and put it in case), one v2000 build is progressing smoothly.
I was hoping to get bit more done this weekend but something else came up and took priority. I found out my 4 axis CNC mill is going to hit home monday (coming monday) and considering the weight of machine, I decided I better make bench for it before it hits here. (Abuse the driver to help me putting it up on mill bench).
Ended up doing more wood working than phasework this weekend...
Bunch of 3/4" plywood stuck together and 4x4 woods for leg. I might put additional torsional rigidity on it by putting bracing wood of 2x4 if i need it.
I don't expect to have the machine running anytime soon as I need to get some units out first and it will be an hour there and here as well as getting proper sized endmill, vise, etc.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9086.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9087.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9088.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9092.JPG
Slotted using router on last pic for plexi shield to be inserted and inside area is all fiberglass lined and curing... I probably won't paint it since I don't know the chemical reaction between the particular coolant and paints...
From Jin's place to my home in CT, it only took 3-5 days, with a stop in the midwest, so you should get it pretty soon :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Complete
looks like you are building a small factory there!!:) looks good. i was thinking you were getting a floor model. post pics when you get it!
hope mine is the one that is progressing :D . j/k good to see you got the room to work now.
No actually, I really don't now after this working on phase and wood at same time :) I am going to take rest of night cleaning up and reorganizing to clean the place up. I should feel really fresh working on remaining unit tomorrrow morning :) (or dead tired)Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyz
oh... I forgot to add, the cascade is in leak test phase again Gary :)
Hey Jin, ants are lazy compared to you. You work very hard. Can t wait to see the baby!
BTW: my uncle ( the one that lives in SJC )has an old 1980 Fadal ( CNC ) he has managed to connect it via RS 232 to a comp.
Looking good Jin :) I can't wait to not only pick up my unit but also to meet the man and see the "assembly line". I am fortunate enough to live only 45 min away no shipping! :p:
Wow, it looks like there are a lot of people that have units being built. Jin, I sent you an email inquiring about my Vapo LS a few days ago and never got a response. Please keep me posted on any updates you may have.
I am not getting worried, just really excited, and bored with a 6700 that doesnt want to clock on air. lol
Thanks. :)
Heh... sorry for the long delay. I just had to get things out of way :)Quote:
Originally Posted by dominick32
It is getting to last phase of testing as I write this. Basically load testing. Actually all 4 units that are being worked on at the moment are alternating between load tester and idling to go through thermal cycling.
Thanks a million Jin!!!
I absolutely cannot wait to get this unit back.
Please post pics and temp improvements if possible so I can salivate for the next couple of days until the unit comes back. :D
Thanks again!!
Done bit differently in tuning for dominick's request for colder temperature. Compressor do run 5c-10c warmer than my typical build but temp is lower. It still runs cooler than it used to be so I suppose that would be within safe range :)
First of all, I need to emphasize again on shipping when sending me an unit for repair. I found this out today when I was putting things back in case after final testing... but back was vent (it was shipped in original astek box) fan grill was bent (and no it isn't that easy to bend it), and fan support column and back fan blade was broken off. Thankfully I do have spare grills and had spare fan that read RPM handy. So no further delays.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9139.JPG
Unfortunately my spare chill control passed away and I have no way to really run it other than hot wiring for now so that's what you will see with both fans powered by 12v psu and compressor just straight connected to ac main.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9135.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9134.JPG
And here are some pics of final testing.
#1. no load
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9140.JPG
#2. 70 watt load. Which I think lot of time it will be at.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9137.JPG
#3. 150watt load.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9132.JPG
#4. 180watt load.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9130.JPG
I really didn't want to push beyond that point as compressor was very hot (up to 75c on prolonged 180w testing) on this unit.
Typical vapochill LS mod, you can expect about 2-3c temp difference from what you saw with idle more in range of -50 to -55c. While compressor running about 5-10c cooler.
I wonder what kind of temp this will read in chill control.... -_-; as I did my last tuning today without one.
Suggestion for this one, if you plan to put some load on it, I suggest turning the fan all the way up :) it's tuned for that.
Enjoy :)
Jin,
Absolutely awesome work!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I cannot wait to get this unit back. Just for a comparison.
Jin has tuned my unit to -59.9*C idle.
Before his modifications my idle was probed at -24*C idle and read -25.5*C idle in the Asus P5B-Deluxe bios. That would be a decrease in temperature of almost 35 degrees:banana: :banana:
Did you mesure with the Ls display or ?Quote:
Originally Posted by dominick32
Two idle measurements:Quote:
Originally Posted by Nosfer@tu
1. With my cousins fluke.
2. Asus P5B-Deluxe bios reading.
The fluke being a little warmer than the Asus bios. I think my Vapo may have been a tad weaker than normal. And no, the LS display is BS!!! LOL
Wait a second... asus probe is reading something else :) Vapochill LS AFAIK idles around -45c to -50c itself. It's the load that kills the unit. On same location to read temp 150w would make the unit read somewhere in - 25-28c. This is the major part of improvement the modification is for (yes you do get better idle temp too but after all good load temp is what makes overclock happen :P)Quote:
Originally Posted by dominick32
PS) hmm you posted before me... Maybe the unit was underperforming to begin with...? Anyways... lemme call you up.
I know Jin. I was just very impressed in how much you got the idle down. The load is even more remarkable because the loaded temps @ 180 watts are lower than my idle temps before the mod... Its incredible.Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu117
I thank you again!!!
Edit* Come to think of it my idle temperature readings we taken @ 1.62 vcore and 4.2 Ghz on my e6600 conroe. That would definitely create a -24*C idle dont you think? Heck of an improvement none the less Jin!!!!
JINU!
I recieved the unit today at lunch. WHAT is all this stuff!! Do you have some kinda guide? LOL.
I have read all the forums stickies on installing Phase. And you got some stuff in here that I dont know about.
But Looks good. Havent tested it..or anything, but nothing looks damaged.
Anyways, I am going to need alot.. of help !
Didn't get a phone call or pm from you after our discussion which makes me believe you are blasting away... ? :)
A lot happened in last few days... :)
Another 2 V2000 is completed completed. One is already picked up by local customer and the other one is packed yesterday but still haven't shipped (my apology) My internet and phone and cable (gotta love it when you get all 3 together) ALL went down from midnight to about 2:30pm today.
V2000 for SilveradoJ442... :) I only found 1 pic I made for him... duh. Was so busy I forgot to take some pics I wanted to... pretty standard the fair except I am starting to use bit different looping on v2000 from now on. which you will see on another unit below. This one has 2 x 120mm fan hole for BIP :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9167.JPG
This is one that goes out to Rob725.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9182.JPG
Notice something new? :) YES. I started labeling the wires for easier installation. Thanks to suggestion from few of my current customers, it sometimes is hard to see what customer has problem with from my end. Keep the feedbacks rolling in so I can better service you guys :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9183
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9184
Now, if you remembered, I did get my cnc mill in monday last week. Since I did have to get the units out, I delayed it till sunday morning to put it up. Only thing is, I hired 3 hispanic people on street to lift the damn thing up (about 400lbs or so), and guess what I got with this...
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9168.JPG
About 1/4 inch deep cut. The guys really didn't have any strength despite their bulk... -_-; I mean, it only is 100lbs each side and they couldn't really do good job... I should have bought hydraulic crane instead and should have soloed damned thing... (I already have lift table so it wasn't going to be too hard soloing but I couldn't justfiy taking more space with such tool).
Anyways, it was clean cut and started mending real quick. In fact, I am doing much better now. As long as I don't have to put too much strength on the finger, it isn't "leaking" any more blood, etc. Bit of throbbing but I am used to pain I guess :)
Kind of cleaned up the shop area... need more cleaning done and will do so shortly but I figured it is about time I showed you guys where i moved :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9171
general view... :)
First workbench on left is my quick component testing/used to be benching station... 15" lcd sitting there for easy hookup keyboard, mouse, bench station, etc. I need to put a server machine for my primary job related stuff under it when I get time... have a 1U server sitting in office which I don't want to hear when I am working on things.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9175
Well this is solder station and supply storage area :) I also use empty space in front of it for a lot of little things I do when I don't want to do it close to my main work area.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9173
General work area. Mostly do last evac, load testing, wiring, finalizing system, etc. Got this from Costco and they are great deal!!! much sturdier than any i've seen short of industrial duty ones.
On the back you see additional shelvings for bunch of stuff I use. I haven't quite figured out how to make insulation storage easier... working on it :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9174
Tools area. most hand tools reside here. Some supplies too. On left is movable tray with vacuum pump at bottom shelving... this is where i do first 2 evac. kind of like assembly line concept.
To right of it which I forgot to take pic is good old work bench with scroll saw, Drill press and lathe.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9176
General case storage CNC machine and path way to house and my office.
Another 19" LCD sitting there for the CNC machine (yes overkill) but it's better to re use than sell and buy now a day for this stuff... :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9177
Bit closer look of CNC bench and machine. yes it is finally up there. (and I found out I need additional braces to stiffen up structure of bench... even 4x4 isn't good enough without cross bracing with over 400lbs on top of it (some side by side play)
Well that's it for now :) Hope you guys finally know where i work in. When I clean up office decently, maybe I will show you where I spend at least 9-10 hours a day... -_- (yes I do work from home for my primary job).
Up and running! Everything is working great! I am typing on it as we speak. I still need to organize a little. Or maybe a lot :) Once I am more comfortable running under phase I will install the watercooling. If anyone is thinking about buying a unit from Jin, he is very helpful and a nice guy and builds an aweome unit! Thank you Jin!
EDIT: Jin take care of that finger, that looked painful!
Here are a few pics too :)
Yes it will be off the dusty floor very soon ;)
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuff/phase0.jpg
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuff/phase1.jpg
And a quick bench
http://www.auction-junkie.com/pcstuff/phase2.jpg
Sorry about the finger, Jin. Nice work; it looks great! I have a nice q6700es looking for a new home. :toast:
Jin your V2000 units are supreme, excellent stuff
Well, I've made another one tonight (and rob, sorry for another day of delay. I finally got my internet back at 3pm or so and it was too late to ship it out it went out around midnight when I was trying to print label) I am printing label right now so there shouldn't be any issues. -_-; I found out how useless I could become without internet today. (I telecomute for my primary job, all my contacts, etc are in there too... it's worse than losing phone really as it also include phone I use).
Anyways, here is build process of v2000 unit. This time, I will show you just part making and brazing to leak testing stage. Evap usually are pre brazed and go through 3-4 days of leak testing to begin with.
Once this phase is done with, I triple evac the system with nitrogen gas. First one for down to 70 micron on low side, 2nd one down to 60 micron on low side first than both high and low side, 3rd one down to below 40 micron (usually about 4-8 hours on brand new system... previously charged one can go 4th cycle or could be vacuuming for over half a day) first low than both high and low side. I use 4 valve manifold to make sure I don't introduce any air in between triple evac by filling nitrogen from high side when it's evac'ed.
After that is the charge and load testing... than assembling it in case and wiring. I will show pictures of that as well when time comes for that. (probably sooner than later since jimmyz's machine is triple evacing right now)
Anyways here we go.
First of all, we must lap the evap. This evap was brazed on Thursday and leak tested till today.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9240.JPG
It is lapped on from 100 grit -> 200 -> 500 -> 1000 -> 1200 than midly polished.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9243.JPG
End result. They tend to lose this much shining factor over time with load testing, mounting, etc :P
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9246.JPG
Brazing up the suction line to the evap. As usual, tight fit and cleaness is must. once done I clean it up with warm watered terry towel and than proceed to take out any residue of flux which isn't good for flexline.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9247.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9250.JPG
Evap set with cap tube wrapped at correct places for v2000 installation and ready to be brzed in.
First laying out the parts and setting up the copper tubing. I do this before any components which are pressurerized open.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9253.JPG
Than it is lay out plan... which i have done so for v2000 unit.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9256.JPG
Brazed :) Purging than closing with cap at low pressure is what I like to do :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9258.JPG
Time to start leak testing ;)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9261
Jin you should have called me, if you got any other work of that sort gimme a call.
or gimme a call anyway, I know you busy so didn't want to bother you the last few weeks.
Pics dont work for me
fine here w/ie7
need to stop looking at this thread, makes me wanna order another one in a LianLi cube...
Hey Jin,
Glad to see your work quality is still top notch and your value for service is still high. I hope everyone is enjoying their units!
I got few updates in sleeve coming in before christmas time (crossing fingers) to make you feel even ithcier VulgarHandle ;)
Thanks for the great comment guys. And Ken and Steve, we need to meet up and have BBQ party or something :)
Wow Jin I didnt even know you did this sort of work, verry nice indeed..
Ill come to the barby too, ill bring the KNIVES, and we can duke it out in the backyard :P
Verry nice work bro, keep these beauties coming off the assembly line, truely impressive work going on over there playah :)
Very nice units, sent a PM to you to get more info.
Well here is worklog picture series #2,...
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9263.JPG
Placing probes. The brown is K-type thermocouple, and the black is the froster probe. Can't get much closer to evap head unfortunately as the mounting kit migth make the probe when applied.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9264.JPG
Sleeved and ready for charge and fun.
Now traveling back from beginning of projects such as this.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9267.JPG
Prepping for cap tubing. I use 3/16 tubing brazed with schraeder to use it for purging and leak testing. I just keep cutting it by inch when I have to work on new one. And when it gets too short, just braze new length in.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9270.JPG
Cleaned evap... it must be clean to braze without an issue.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9277.JPG
Just brazed evap. it need to be cleaned off after.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9279.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9280.JPG
Time to triple evac, I use this in conjunction when i have to keep evacing sysstem as they are made. The maximus is the 1st and 2nd stage while robinaire is 3rd stage.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_2982.JPG
Prepping condenser fan. I use rubber gasket to absorb additiona vibraito.
It's time to charge the gas up and load test!!! to be continued... :)
I have seen people use camping stoves to heat up the evap faster and not empty your ace/oxe bottles so quickly. But I donīt see you using a stove?
When I used Oxy-Acetylene they just got insanely hot...I doubt additional heat would be needed, even for a solid evap!
Very nice work Jin:D!
brett:
thrue. you don't need additional heat when you use acetylene/oxygen. you may need a little bit larger mouthpiece (correct word?). I normally use a 150L mouthpiece when brazing. I would recommend a 200 or 300 if you soldering a evap, just to get the additional heat that can be nessesary.
I don't use those "shower head mouthpiece". I can't recommend what size of mouthpiece you should have if you wan't to use one of those, but proberbly one of the bigger like 800L
Heh, the reason evap is suspended is to reduce heat dissipation through bottom touching some metal. This way evap will heat up about twice faster. Total time it takes to braze a prepped evap is well under 5 minutes this way. Using #2 tips for regular torch or #4 tips of harris mini-torch. Yup I have 2 torch sets and 3 tanks of each gas so that I never run out. It always seems to run out saturday night when I keep on making sutff and I really don't like the idea of idling whole day when there are job to be done.
I see... clever :)
Thanks for the info.
Jin I don't like that pic of red bench with high pressure tank and regulator on it not looking chained or secured to something.
I either use those nylon tie down straps to strap to solid object but I mostly buy 20.00 to 30.00 dollar dollies to strap tanks too. That way you can move them around with no fear of pulling one over.
I just seen on "myth busters" test whether is was a myth or truth if a tank got the valve knocked off it will go right thru a Block wall.
They built a test wall in a old military bunker and the tank passed completely thru the block wall and put quite a mark in a solid concrete wall.
"MYTH CONFIRMED" cylinder will penetrate block wall, Hope you catch the re-run.
wdrzal:
today you can buy hoods for your gas tanks whith the regulator inside the hood. which makes them lot's more secure. as secure you can drop them from 5th floor without problems. Dad was at work when they dropped a whole bunch of gas tanks from a crane at the harbor, no damage to the bottles 'cause the hoods was mounted, offcourse the bottles was full of gas.
I have use those hoods with intergrated regulator my self at work, there they got air liquide, those works fine. but I don't own any of those my self. I have aga and mine is standing on orginal AGA vehicle (wrong word?).
I would say it's crazy to have gas tanks staing on thier own with removed coverhood and regulators mounted on.
with hoods mounted there is no problems to have them staying but I wouldn't use them staying free 'cause it can be a lot damage if one bottle went down to the floor. burning your self, your mates in the workshop and the whole workshop can burn down if you have bad luck. there is reason why they use vehicle and chain gas bottles.
I would be interested in finding more about this hood. Airliquid carreis them and what would be the model number? Would you happen to have the picture of such? At times, it is incovenient to move things on roller I have and something like hood would be most excellent option.
jinu117:
the solution is called Altop. Not sure what size of bottles those hoods are avaible on but I have seen those on o50 and a42 bottles. proberbly those are avalible on smaller bottles too.
I don't have any high resolution but I googled and found those pictures:
http://www.airliquide.com/image/stdp...s/altop_01.jpg
http://www.interempresas.net/FotosAr...ctos/P8831.jpg
the red arm on the first picture is the valve arm to open/close bottle, instead of this:
http://www.reklamballonger.se/images...era-ventil.gif
you get a regular hand adjustable screw for the out-pressure.
I also know AGA have a simular solution called nemo, but this have I never use by my self.
http://www.aga.se/International/Web/...$file/nemo.gif
hope this helps a little.
That looks awesome!!! Thanks a million Tim!
Everyones pictures work but yours Jinu still :(
Could you switch to imageshack?
Hmm I don't remember IP banning you to my site? :P I can send some your way on msn when we get time together.Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
All the pics work fine here :)Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
Tested a bit with Jinu, I cant seem to view the pics even straight by link...
must have your browser set to block phase pron!!!:DQuote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
Haha I even tried other comps and IE.
Back to Jinu's show though, I can only imagine what beautiful work I've been missing.
Don't get flustered NOL - It's only soft :banana::banana::banana::banana:.:slobber:Quote:
Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337
Hey jin - how do you keep the evap from falling off the copper tubing when it gets hot? :confused:
Simple, tap it and screw the 5/16 in. It helps conducting heat better and also make sure I cap tube stays there, etc :)
Okay - so you drill the hole in the center of the evap a tad smaller than 5/16 and then you tap it. as you turn the 5/16 copper tube into the evaporator, the threads in the evap thread the copper tube and this holds the two pieces together while brazing.
What keeps the brazing alloy from flowing down into the mounting groove? Or do you have to clean the groove out?
Uhmmm
I also groove the shell with lathe so enough solder sits in there... very rarely will i get filler going down to groove and if some does, it is so thin that it doesn't matter :)
Told you the lathe is more than paying for itself. Braze time of avg evap is now around 3 mins from start to end once prepped.
Well, what can I say... the unit is tuned for VERY heavy load. Flutter of -53c and than it goes to idle around -49c. It will be VERY hard to see evap temp below -38c on this machine :P
Also, major new thing here :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9346.jpg
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9371.jpg
Yup, basically I gave him option to use 220v for running his psu... :P
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9356.jpg
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9360.jpg
Looks a little empty at back eh?
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9410.jpg
Here is why :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9413.jpg
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9419.jpg
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9427.jpg
This uses k-type probe. Can go down to -200c reading I believe. Up to -60c the thing was dead on with 3 thermometer I tested with... (Fluke, BK, UEI)
It has been programmed to shut down psu if there is emergency and won't let you start computer till evap reached -45c once at least :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9398.jpg
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9401.jpg
Guess it is time to pack and ship :)
Looking good Jin, cant wait to see some pics of mine :)
Wow jin your on your way to a really nice shop,you already established yourself as a great builder.
Just remember only schedule 3 weeks work a month.you will be lucky to get than done in 4 weeks,sometimes even working late plus sat & sun.. you always will have delays in materials and have personal matters arise + little small jobs that pop up or freinds and neighbors pop in when they need the uses of your tools. Also clean up time and tool maintenance,all takes time.
great job jin :toast: :woot: :clap: :clap:
That looks sweet Jin.
:bounces: wow, can't wait to get it. awesome job jin!!!! i know i will be happy. nice pics too!! :slobber:
thank you very much jin and i wish you much success in your business!!!!
i can't think of anything to say i'm speechless!!!
I say it once again, no one on the planet can build a nicer V2000 phase unit
Your new self made controller looks mighty fine jin:) Your cooler is top of the line.;)
Great pictures - Did you have them professionally made?
There are drill sizes for a given tap size charts, they are usually stamped on those larger bit boxes that go from 1/16 to 1/2 by 1/64's.
you can also get heavy plastic charts that really last ,or paper ones,you should be able to find one on the net and download it.
No matter what size you want to tap 3/16........1/4.........5/16.......1/2 etc and obviously I skipped many. there is a given drill size that must be used.
Drill the hole to small you will break the tap to large and the threads are not deep enough to hold,
Also be aware taps come usually in sets of 3 of the same tap size & type, NF or nc.....more on that latter.
1: starter tap this has the most extreme taper to it.
2"standard tap, has taper that is only 2 to 4 threads long to use after starter tap
3: bottoming tap threads are straight to end of tap, last tap to use if you drill a hole say in 1" thick steel but only drill hole 3/4" deep and want to run screw almost to bottom,never bottom screws or bolts completely to bottom of hole or you can twist them off. allow at least 1/2 to 1 thread from bolt bottoming out in hole.
note" say you only have 1/8 or 1/2 inch thick metal and hole is drilled completely thru and you want threads to run completely thru. You can use starter tap as the taper goes around half of it total length so keep tapping till you reach the straight section,and that part passes completely thru. this goes for tap 1 or 2 as numbered above.
when taping use lubricant,oil or wd 40 or the like , turn tap approximately 1/2 turn then reverse direction until you feel metal(threads)being cut off . you do not just turn tap in clockwise direction. for Right hand threads, all though rare to find in most stores,you can get left hand taps screws and bolds that tighten in the opposite direction.(right hand taps screws and bolts is the standard)
clockwise then counter clockwise until tapping job is done. while in thin soft material you can get away without reversing to shear off the cuttings ,you risk breaking you tap.
pipe taps npt(national pie thread) are a tapered thread.different from screw & bolt taps.
machine screw & bolt taps, are straight thread
There are different types of straight threads, most common on bolts and screws is NC(national coarse) and NF( national fine) look for the nc or nf on the tap as it tells you ether it is a fine thread or coarse thread. (which on the chart or can be measured by a thread gage) or even a ruller with a good eye. Tells number of threads per inch (TPI),differs for each size.
info,did you know 1/16" &1/8 " are 27 TPI 1/4" & 3/8"are 18 TPI 1/2" & 3/4" pipe taps are 14 TPI and 1".....1-1/4".....1-1/2"........2" are 11-1/2 TPI per inch. pipe taps and dies obviously have same TPI.
the list is to long for screws & bolt TPI because of NC or NF and I,m going to work now.
Acme screw thread is common on lathes and milling machines as it has flat sides and tops,.......... a screw with less to no backlash used on better machines is a ball screw and nut,going to stop here on that type.
Thanks for the awesome comment guys :) The picture was taken by me with back drop I made. And 2 1000w shop lights. I really need better lighting as the hues of light gets on the machine... Playing with the image definitely took some quality out but that's what it will have to do until I can find decent photographic light at decent price. Preferably defussion type.
As for threading, nice write up walt.... can you write up some kind of guide on that? I won't mind sticky on such thing as it did take me a while to understand all the acronym, etc on threading through searching as most fabricator are assumed to know, and info is rather sparse. You could search mcmaster.com to figure this out but it is rather time consuming for most :)
well i got my unit earlier this week and got to work on it a little, i seem to have under-estimated the performance i would be getting!!!!!:D
even priming with 1.6 in bios on a p5b-deluxe @ 4.275ghz (475 fsb) temp stayed around -7c evap never got below -39, idles @ -43 !!!!!
coud not be more impressed with the unit or with jin!! this is my first phase unit and i have been constantly suprised with the newfound abilities of my 6600 !!!!! don't want to clutter this thread with screenshots and such as this is the phase section but......just got finished with 2x32m pi @4.275 and 3hrs prime @same speed!!!! also accomplished 1m pi @ 4.5ghz @ only 1.5875vcore!!!after i get some better ram i will be able to see what this baby can do!!!
you can't beat the combination of looks and performance you get from a custom phase unit!!! best investment i have ever made!!!:toast: if it wasn't for the fine builders in this forum i would still be on water.
thank you very much jin, and all the other members who have helped me start learning about phase!!! i am hooked for sure now!!:fact:
2 of local customers who happens to be friend is going to pick these babies up shortly. Now, one of them is tad colder across all range than the other. Maybe it was not quite identical twins... I am not sure how to go about this... (not all compressors are same it seems again). Utilizing PID with relay to shut down in emergency, etc. Another thing is 2 ex-23 sitting in here for 6 hdd space... :) This might be first clear view of plus II fan I think too.
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9531.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9534.JPG
sweet stuff!!
what evap and Mount do you use?
I think I am going to base my next build off one of these. I am not convinced I need to upgrade my AMD 939 rig yet so I think I will start saving. For those of you that own them, how loud are they??
Jin, do you have any idea what the BTU/hr output on one of your condensers on an average unit at full load? Just curious.
Well i hope someone responded back on noiselevel :) I strive to achieve as pleasant setup as I can get without sacrificing performance... (or was it the other way around?)
qdemm7. Exact figure I don't have handy as I was bit detached on first revision of condenser (I only paid for it it lol :P)
I've requested more specifc information with some conditions, (such as gas used, flow rate, pressure of fan, ambient temperature, moisture level, and operating wattage of compressor, etc all decides real capacity of condenser for the purpose.... hence I compiled the data to them to chew the number out for me).
Now... as I started closing how far I can possibly push on NF9FX imho, tis was bound to happen :)
First, look at the loaded temp with wattage given :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9574.JPG
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9575.JPG
Hmmm... what did we change? :)
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/IMG_9580.JPG
Yes... I officially am done with NF9FX. I will miss the compressor dearly as it was my favorite compressor for last 70+ builds. It has come to time for some more boost in performance without sacrificing on noise front for once :)
I don't think this is end of how far I will go as I remember my first nf9fx to right now saw about 2-4c gain in average when I actually handed out my last unit to a customer 2 days ago. Let's see how much further I can go now :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hey_Its_Cole
i am the very proud owner of the single unit on this page and the noise level is comperable to a quiet air conditioner. the unit sits on my desk and also i do not know if it made a difference but i used sound absorbing mat. on all flat surfaces inside case ,but i did it as i was building the case so i never really heard it without the stuff.
if i still used air on my 1900xtx it would be about three times louder than my vapoli. also worth noting, my old danger den kit came with a sunon 120 mm fan that the specs say is 45 db and it is much louder than my vapoli.
in other words it makes noise but since mine get's my 6600 up to about 4.5ghz stable and a 24/7 oc of 4.3ghz ,it sounds sweet to me.
i keep the condensor fan on low, and it's the loudest thing in my computer, louder than the compresser, in fact, the only thing i hear from my computer is the condensor fan
i have a "VapoLi" by the way(jinu's custom SS in the LianLi V2000B)
:cries:Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu117
The NF10's sound level is the same though, I gather from your post?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu117
:( Oh nooo....this is so sad, a week after I pick up my unit and an upgraded one comes out. lol I didn't think I would have this upgrading problem with phase components!
Haha same with me, I was waiting on the NF10FX but compressor never came in until work on my unit began. Old compressor is still extremely good, he did mention his tuning got 2-4c higher than when he first began so thats good to know.
How long is the average build time on one of these units?
Jinu117 looks like your prepping for 4core chips...
I was wondering if you could pm me with some prices... I am tring to decided if i go it alone, or invest in one of your fantastic looking systems.
LVmike
All I can say is this, if you want to make something of the same quality as what he can make for you, it's going to cost you more money and SIGNIFICANTLY more time. If you have the budget to buy a unit from Jin, do it! I did, and I was very happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by LvMike
I was also wondering the time it takes for an order to come to light..
Like If I was to order one the begining of the month when could I expect delivery?
Also again Id like to say nice work to Jin, these things are beauties and perform awesome dude, it this full time for you now?
i think its like 3 weeks but your gonna have to talk to him.
I went over to pick up my unit on the 1st. He seems to be load testing many units with much more orders hanging on the wall. May take a little bit of waiting time but its worth it.
Guys. Jins time is WELL WORTH THE WAIT... What he is doing is constantly and viciously load cycling and testing your unit before it leaves the facility. I know first hand that Jin is a perfectionist and you guys are going to love your units.
Regards,
Dom
Well, couple of sad news...
NF10FX has proven itself to be quite capable but falls short of noise level criteria I have set myself for. While better than NF11FX by small margin, it isn't miracle maker.
And my idea of don't sell what I wouldn't use goes straight against this unless I can explain every single customer about the noise level in detail which is extremely hard to quantify as you have noticed on people asking and people answering.
It typically is 3 weeks for me to build, test, test, test, and some more... and pack it and ship the unit out :)
Guess2098 picked up one of unit tuned for NF10FX with high capacity in mind and also working with noise envelop I have put myself on (well very close to it at least... certain tuning change had to be done) so I will hear back from him on how he feels. But for now, I have returned ALL nf10fx I had in stock, as well as what was in order pipeline (other than already brazed up compressors).
I will go back to NF9FX for vapochill modification unless someone specifically asks for NF10FX, etc.
As for my own creation, some change to plan was in order once I found this out and I do have new compressors showing up tomorrow that was in order pipeline for nearly what seems like 2 months already :)
I really didn't feel like posting back on some questions here until I got everything settled down with firm idea of what will happen :)
Thanks for all my current customers who understood the inherent issues with NF10FX, supporting me, etc.
One thing I am 90% sure is, the extra wait you might have due to this compressor mishap or just plain change of compressor would be newer generation of compressor with higher efficiency and better noise/power draw/performance ratio :) It's been my goal for last one year. (and I will subsidize the cost difference on this new compressor which is tad more expensive than either NF9 or NF10 for current orders)
One bad thing would be my vapochill modification while being superior to premodded system might not be quite as good as what I can custom build as this compressor probably won't fit vapochill LS's case.
Jin,
Have you written up any technical documentation for your units? :fact:
:stick:
Just how busy are and / or backlogged are you?
Would it be better to communicate by way of e-mail? IMing through a forum drives me nuts--I will miss the :cat: :banana: :toast: and the peculiar obsession XS members have with cats. :cat:
Cheers. :cat::toast::cat:
:kittenhat
had it on for few hrs. 1st hr is ok and after 2 hrs i am geting really tired of the noise of the SS....Quote:
Originally Posted by jinu117
however it is pretty good SS, i will do more testing tonight
thank you jin
What kind of technical documentation? I am sure it is placed all over the place on information that is necessary but organizing it in one place probably is good idea and about time to do it :)
How busy I am? Well, 3-4 hours of sleep a day busy? Backlogged? Normally not until incidents like this happens. The time frame is setup so that I can do enough testing for each unit and it isn't like I only work on one unit at a time. Usually things happen in parallel here :)
If you have really problem using PM to communicate to me feel free to drop me an e-mail. It really isn't much different. Sometimes, MSN messanger might be better choice or even phone call to discuss more throughly as well as having no lag time between communication. And no I have no obsession with Cats... one of few who doesn't it seems here.
Now, Denny... please let me know of your finding and noise level. I would appreciate your feed back for sure. It is possible to turn the fan down with simple in line 12v fan controller which will reduce noise greatly for sure at cost of temperature on evap under heavy load. However, I am more worried about inherent compressor noise on that unit even after that major surgery I did on it :)
Sincerely, Jin
use a sound absorbing material to line your cases, too quieten down things even further use fiberglass duct board and turning vanes to channel air flow thru case, mount fan & compressor inboard of the ducts bends that need to be about 90 degrees so the sound is absorbed and does not continue on.2 -90 degree bends together is even better.in a square 90 degree turn, air turning vanes need to be installed or it will be like the air hitting a wall and cfm flow will suffer.
don't worry guys this board is made for A/C ducts and the fiberglass is coated so none will get airborne.It may not offer enough room left as it is 1" thick. there is thinner material but ducts or diversion plates would need to be made of tin then sound asorbing material glued on is another solution.
The Fan doesn't have to be mounted Right on the condenser, as long as the case stays closed. I would draw the air in the bottom,turn it pass over compressor and then thru condenser which can be angled then exhaust out the back,somehow. you will need to put unit on 3/4 to 1 inch legs or make bends in the case floor to hold up off floor so air can be drawn in bottom. you may need to think about provisions to raise another 3/4" if you sell one to a hippy who has long mat shag rugs.
Air in a home that is not blown about by fans or A/c will stratisfy about 1 degree per foot.So if you have 8 foot ceilings and no fans running the air @ 70F @ floor level will be approximately 8 degree's warmer @ the ceiling. So it makes sense to pull air from the floor. and the exhaust should be out the back ,to exhaust heat and noise away from user.
when I get time I'll draw and post a possible design to reduce noise greatly
If someone gives me case dimensions and compressor and condenser dimensions I'll see what will fit best. oh give fan dimmensions and cfm so a proper static pressure can be calculated for proper condensation of refrigerant and cooling. may take me a little while till I find time..............
Thanks Walt :)
I am quite well versed on sound insulation believe it or not. However, what i believe in is not to mask it but to kill it from source as much as you can. In fact, you can find great deal of adventures and extremeties of how far people will go on silentpcreview.com... It is probably one most authorative place for noise related issues in computing world just like XS is for overclocking. Of course basic concept applies either way.
Increased efficiency = less wast such as sound energy/heat/etc.
Maybe you are talking about some ideas like this...
http://www.vapoli.com/images/Forum/case%20inside.jpg
High NRC foam lined up, MDF to kill any vibrational and low frequency noise, Air intake right from bottom moving over to top back and it has shrouded exhaust with more noise reduction path. This one is about 2 year old contracept I did when I was playing VERY heavy watercooling for highest level of watercooling with lowest noise possible... (this is when I got tired of phase and peltier, etc)
actually you can't do much about compressor and fan noise unless you use the bends in duct to absorb it and keep it from being exhausted. The bends will do way more than simple adding sound absorbing insulation to the case interior.
The only thing more advanced is ANC (active noise cancellation) where a microphone listens to the frequency of the noise and a controller produces a wave 180 degrees out of phase and sends it to a speaker so the waves cancel each other out.This must all happens incredibly fast.
Bose was the inventor of this technology about 16 years ago iirc for there aviation headsets. they now are on there second generation,generation X ,I have a set and they work incredibly well but a little pricey at 1000.00 a set,but they would fit well over piston compressors to reduce noise:D http://www.bose.com/controller?event...set_index&ck=0
This technology in now available for industrial applications but only works in enclosed spaces such as a case.I seen the technology used in gen-sets on yachts & aircraft to quieten them down.It would work in phase cases if you want to pony up some big bucks.
Nice work!!!
I wish one of these units would fit in my SSTJ07!!!
Mel
Well new finding for the day. I need you guys with quad core in hand. Apparently I finally found CPU that can dump more than what I consider 200w!!!!
A local customer told me unit not holding load his quad core. Think he was trying for 4.2 or 4.3 ghz or something. He came in and I load tested it on tester at 200w... holding absolutely fine the way it was tuned from start. It seems that these CPUs with heavy voltage are capable of dumping well over real 200w. I've retuned his unit to hold 220-230w range losing huge amount on idle temp, etc. He will report back to me once he gets back home to see how much voltage he can put in, etc.
I've also heard report of same quad core cpu (well diff cpu but same criteria of chip) dumping hugely different amount of heat... So, all bets are off right now on how I should tune my future unit. Get great temp with current dual core with some room for quad core? Get good temp for HUGE load capacity sacrificing some nice temps we are used to seeing up to 170w?
This is going to be interesting development.
Do we just prepare for much more heat than reasonable? Do we stop at certain point saying, don't put too much voltage on it for 24x7 type use?
Jin - I suspected this would be the case. My friend (who was just at your house) is currently driving over to my house and we will probably do some testing on his unit together. Initially, we were both surprised to see how easily the quad was overcoming the unit as previously tuned. We are both excited to see how the unit performs now.
He gave me some details of his conversation with you about temps vs. load capacity, and we were happy that our assumptions prior to today's meeting with you were correct. Neither of us could care less about temps, as long as it is not maxing out the compressor and we are still keeping the cpu nice and cold.
We were getting a little concerned about the value of the unit when used with quad, as some people with big air coolers (which are not precisely tuned at all) were matching or surpassing his overclock. Hopefully we'll be able to meet what we think are reasonable goals for a quad under expensive phase cooling. We aren't trying for benchmark records or anything. We'll let you know how it goes.
Thanks for your great support Jin. To any buyers in waiting, rest assured that Jin sticks with you after the sale. Great service and support.
Hey Jin Thanks for your awesome support!
I did just a little testing on the quad, but still need more time to do more.
It looks like I can set 1.60 volts (1.56 actual) and be close to the max I can go for the compressor.
At 1.63 (1.59 actual) volts the heat takes over the unit. It takes about 10 min in prime for it to happen.
Oh and my clock speed for these tests were at 3.9ghz.
If it were me I would sacrifice temps for higher load capacity.
This bugged my mind so much that I thought over this:
Here is quick ideas I drew up.
Core Duo Xtreme (assuming 1.75v high overclock vs 1.35v stock) and overclocked: Approximately 170-180w range.
Kentsfield (1.6v high overclock vs 1.35v stock)... based on calculation... about 250w range -_-;
Considering programs probably don't stress quad core efficiently enough (even for orthos, etc), I am guessing maybe even 220-230w range we saw might explain some idea on quad core's evil heat dump when overclocked.
Basically, same overclock with same voltage on quad will be approximately twice the heatload vs core duo. This is the kind of heatload we didn't deal with before at all.
I am almost tempted to make 2 lines one for dual core one for quad core as the nice -40c loaded temp will not be practical shortly for 24x7 setup.
I can get all the help from what you guys feel on which direction to go.
Thats actually a very good idea jin. Theres no reason to sacrifice temps for customers that have no intention of running quads. Im just curious as to how much different idle and load temps would be on the unit tuned for a quadcore.
Here is what I found with my quad cores and vapochill units (stock)
On an evga 680i board, running 4.3Ghz @1.8 volts (which is reading as 1.74) the unit holds ok, with normal rise in temps when running benchmarks.
same cpu on asus p5b32-e sli, anything over 1.62 volts and the cpu drives the vapochill up to extreme plus side temps.
Lower the voltage just a little and vapochill keeps the quad core about on par with the evga 680i setup.
something doesn't seem to add up. either the evga or the asu mb is reporting a wrong voltage.
Possible theory:
around 1.6v on a quad core is probably going to get you as high an overclock as possible with a ss unit.
If you need more, then you probably need a cascade or ln2, etc.
I have run my quads between 1.5 and 1.74 and at 4.3Ghz it's a crap shoot as to whether it will lock up or not.
vapochill seems to hold the quad at around -24C (temp probe at end of evap touching cpu). Under fairly heavy load, between 6 and 12C. Severe load = 22C.
So as you can see, the vapo isn't making it and is marginal at best
Hoping Jin can keep me on the minus side with the unit he is building me!!!
I think that with a stronger ss unit, several things may happen
1) I will be able to stay at or slightly higher then 4.3Ghz and
2) I will be able to do this with less voltage, which will help the ss unit keep the quad under control a little better.
On a side note: If I do not wait for the vapochill to get the quad well below 0c before powering up, the quad overpowers the unit and temps are in the 40's (positive), even on the vapochill unit.
Rjw, I have a hard time believing you are able to put more than 1.6v (ACTUAL) through the quad CPU and have it be stable while Orthos priming (100% load over a considerable time period) with a stock Vapochill unit. It seems that you would be overpowering the Vapochill almost immediately...no?
The reason for my skepticism is that on hdinmotion's unit (using evga 680i), which has been proven up to Jin's "heavy-load" tuning, anything above 1.56v (ACTUAL) overwhelms the unit during Orthos testing within about 10 minutes.
I don't think that the voltage readings on MY evga are correct
I hit 22099 in 3dm06 in sli with a quadcore on an evga 680i running a 15 x 1147/4 or 4.3 Hgz
orthos runs for about 30 minutes at up to 22 C, which to me is scary.
Not all cpu's are created equal
I bought 2 at the same time, same batch. The second one would send temps through the roof in orthos.
Is there a quad core version of orthos?Or maybe I can run 2 sessions from sifferent folders, in order to load all 4 cores?