LOL Hipro:D
I don't know if it's the launguage difference or if you trying, but sometimes you really make me laugh :toast:
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LOL Hipro:D
I don't know if it's the launguage difference or if you trying, but sometimes you really make me laugh :toast:
I'll get 2 x 512 Twinmos UTT so as to test them 24/7 @ 3.5Vdimm+ from a friend and then I could say.....! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
:D :DQuote:
Originally Posted by topboy
This is GOOD.......Laugh is helth..... :D :toast:Quote:
Originally Posted by G H Z
P.S. I'm not a gennie in English though...... :)
i think most of that dead ram issue happen when the system power ON sequence begin ... or maybe power OFF sequenceQuote:
Originally Posted by hipro5
make sure that 24/7 also include
- reboot
- shutdown & power up
each day... :hehe:
Heh, hipro5, what can I say :).
Your RAM has probably been toughened through long-term abuse... ;) http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ies/hehehm.gif
I'm thinking along the same lines as bachus - BH-5 and UTT are two different beasties. UTT is way sketchier due to a complete lack of a standard for operation and integrity right after fabrication.
So is this the final answer from DFI? And what are we all who bought this board for the extra VDIMM supposed to do if we don't have adjustable PSU?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Badong
Also can somebody please direct me to a thread that talks about of danger that Badong is talking about, of using +5V line with less than 3.2V? Because this is the first time I am hearing about it and ever since my UTT sticks died (2 months ago) until about 2 weeks ago, I have been running my TCCD RAM from +5V line at only 2.7V to 2.8V VDIMM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Badong
Thanks.
@hovo73
Try to interpret what Oscar Wu and AG said about "using 4v source is not advised"...
There are two voltage regulators, 1st that supplies voltage to 2nd, which supplies it to memory sticks. If you only need 3.2vdimm then switching to "5v supply" will result in 4.1v flowing thru vdimm mosfets. This makes them run VERY HOT. Why do that and POTENTIALLY shorten it's life (which MAY result in failure after some time) for only 3.2v? Stupid, to say the least.
So, for 3.2v just stick with "3.3v supply" and get adjustable PSU or mod rails if you don't have any means to adjust them. For stable 3.2vdimm you would need 3.4v on your PSU's 3.3v rail.
3.4v vs 4.1v is a LOT of a difference and will probably make you feel better.
I do use "5v supply", because I need 3.7-3.9v to play with my BH-5. Not many PSUs can deliver 4.0-4.1v on 3.3v rail without OverVoltageProtection kickin in and shutting PSU down. So I decided to take the risk (OCing is a risk already) and run 5v. Not that I should not use it, but I can use it because I know, that it MAY kill the board and I 100% realise it.
If you are not willing to take ANY risk related to high-voltage operation, waaaay beyond specs, then just don't use DFI NF4's ability to deliver 4v to your memory.
ill try my best to find it for you, but trust us when we say you should not be using less then 3.3 on +5. i once heard squealing from my dimm caps, because i kept it on load for too long at 3.1-3.2. you can imagine if one were to keep it like that for a few weeks to months.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
ill try my best to find it for you, but trust us when we say you should not be using less then 3.3v while on +5 feed. i once heard squealing from my dimm caps, because i kept it on load for too long at 3.1-3.2 while on +5. you can imagine if one were to keep it like that for a few weeks to months.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
the caps/resistors have to work that much harder to convert 3.2 - 2.5 (lower the worst it is) from +5. and although high life qual. caps were used in that area, there is just too much for it to bear if it is really low.
Darn! :(.
I have switched to 3.3V line recently, but I have been doing just that using only 2.7V with +5V line. I have been using it for about a month and I kept running stress tests (memtest, prime95) almost every day or every other day for 8 + hours (having problems getting my Patriot XBLK to go much higher then 260 MHz with 2.5-3-3-7-1t). Do you think I could have already damaged something?
Where can I find some more info on how to mod my PSU?Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
EDIT: Is this it: http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=37574 ? Are there any other ones?
PS. I would like to add that I still think DFI has responsibility to all its customers to get the 4V thing working.
as long as your on +3 now, while using 2.7vdimm, your ok.
the 4v thing works. you must use it with care though.
@hovo73
There are guides in Xtreme Mods section on how to mod your rails. It requires soldering and being confident in your skills, though ;)
The "4v thing" as you call it is working and doing just great :) If you're not familiar, DFI has already used "5v supply" in the past, with it's NF2 mainboards (Infinity and Lanparty) but vdimm was capped in BIOS at somewhere around 3v (I can't remember exactly, even though I had this board and volt-modded the hell out of it :D ). They run just fine too, even with 3.8vdimm after vmods ;)Quote:
PS. I would like to add that I still think DFI has responsibility to all its customers to get the 4V thing working.
Well, I have 2 sets of brand new BH-5/UTT sticks (2x512 OCZ EL Gold and 2x512 TwinMOS TMSP) it would be a shame if I won't be able to use them with this board to their full potential. :)
Well, the board can make it happen but you need to realise, agree and take full responsibility in case your memory dies from over-volting beyond what it's warranted at. I'm not saying that it will, but it MIGHT.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
I signed that deal myself 2 1/2 yrs ago when I first put 3.5v to my 2x512MB Mushkin LvL II PC3500. But it was true BH-5. As far as I know, it's new owner is still enjoying it until now ;)
I think that UTT-CH might be a little bit more fragile, so regardles if I'm right or wrong, be careful :toast:
EDIT: I just looked at mems you got... Well, they seem to be Winbond UTT-BH5, so they might be stronger than UTT-CH5 ;)
as long as it is BH die (UTT BH/classic BH), it should tolerate voltage and last as classic BH has proven. classic is based on .17 fab process, so the UTT BH die should also follow the same process.
i cant comment on UTT CH (.15), but from the looks of things, this is the ram that is not tolerating high voltages for long periods, in certain situations (possibly; not enough data right now to determine that).
edit: when you go over the warrantied voltage of the stick, you automatically sign a 'waiver' so to speak, hehe. be careful nonetheless, and take some precautions, and youll be fine:)
If like what we'd speculated that these UTT/CH base memory chips are weak and can't handle higher voltage load like the fabs BH5, then what difference does it make to use the jumper trick with super high 3.3v rail or with booster? if you're putting the same amount of vdimm through these UTT then technically and eventually they'll still get fried regardless what method you use to supply the load(assuming you're using a good PSU). :stick: UTT reminds me of those scratching lotto ticket that you get from 7-11 :D :D I suppose we will find out in couple months and see what is the memory failure rate with them running under the 3.3v rail instead of 5v, but for now...anyone care to be a test mule and feed 3.5~3.6v through your UTT 24/7 from the 3.3v rail and see how long your sticks gonna last? :D :D :D
is mushkin xp4000 utt-bh or utt-ch?
@ben805
I'm sure, that If you're feeding your sticks 3.6v then if you do it from "3.3v supply" or "5v supply" makes zero difference to them.
What the whole talk of "3.3v trick" is about is, that it forces DFI users to lower strain on vdimm mosfets. I bet than the percentage of folks raising their 3.3v rail to 4.1v as opposed to 4v jumper (plus, the only PSU I know that does not shut down beyond 3.9v is my Fortron 530W :D) will be EXTREMELY marginal, if NONE. For those (like myself) that really need it, 4v jumper was supplied. But If you only need 3.2-3.4v then stay on "3.3v supply" and get mod your PSU. It's probably not absolutely required for the mobo to survive long operation, but everyone will tell you that it's a wise move to make.
from all signs on the earth and sky :D, it's UTT-CH5.Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth17
:toast:
okay thanks...so does that mean it will die when i feed it 3.5v 24/7?Quote:
Originally Posted by bachus_anonym
its warrantied to 3.5v so ill just rma it if it does...
i havent seen any xp4000 die yet :confused:
if they warranty it to 3.5v, then u are insured up until that point. will they die? all depends on the specific IC's being used.Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth17
We do not know :) Not many folks have been playing with XP4000 so far, it's very fresh product.Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth17
On the side note... I've been scratching my head on something... Why Mushkin waited sooo long before releasing their Winbond UTT sticks and let OCZ and others test the waters first??? Mushkin has always had excellent relationship with Winbond :fact:
OK I want to pose a question. If the boards are really fine, if there is really nothig wrong with them and if there really are no voltage spikes, why does DFI suggest such elaborate procedures for things like exchanging RAM (unplugging PSU, draining power etc) and flashing BIOS (removing CMOS battery)? I have used a good number of different motherboards, and NONE ever required anything even remotely close to these.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
because supposely NF4 chipset is really sensitive to that kind of stuff. However personally I've never down any of those and I am still fine (knock on wood).
check out Charlie's sneak peek thread, atleast 3 people had bad or dead sticks....including mine and I was on 5v rail when it died. Only had mine for 3 days but Mushkin took care of the RMA though, and so far my replacement have been working great, and luckily I can run 250 1.5-2-2-2 @3.1v now...still hesitating to use 5v on these UTT again.Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth17
Simple, they are trying to assist the user with a high performance board. Your right about it being elaborate even though the things you mention are everyday stuff, but show me another board that has the features or ability to scream like this board does.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
The fact is it doesn't exist.
btw, if you change ram on any mobo without unplugging or switching of the PSU you run the risk of frying your ram.
For those who did not know about the electromigration effect ...
http://www.cadence.com/whitepapers/4...gration_WP.pdf
It's something like that when you apply a very high current on a bulk wire , the wire resistance will make it become very hot , once the temperature of the bulk wire becomes hot , it's resistance increase , and continues this
high current density -> high temp -> even higher current density --> even higher temp ................ LOOP ...
Until the bulk wire is melted ... :banana:
As the pdf file explain , VOLTAGE itself does not cause electromigration effect , the HIGH CURRENT DENSITY and HIGH TEMP did ...
If these UTT chip is killed by electromigration effect , that means even this chip can handle the high voltage , let's say even at 5.0V ... IT can not handle the high current density and high temperature followed by this high voltage for a long period until any conducting wire in it is melted ~~~
I was referring to this thread:Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
http://xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=49750
Quote:
oskar: so if user directly switch the vdimm source from 5v rail but use actual vdimm value under 3.3v,
then that would cause serious heat on Mosfets. That 's why the factory default vdimm source is set from 3.3v rail.
**(OPB: SO, if you are not going to do vdimm over 3.3v for 24/7, I and Oskar would not suggest you to switch vdimm source to 5v rail to get that heat on your MOS)
My point exactly :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
--- hovo ---
Because there are circuits that are powered via 5VSB, which only goes away by AC removal. And that has been the safe way to do things for many years.
--- wtz54321 ---
Wrong conclusion in your last paragraph bro ;) You still have oxide breakdown possibilities at high voltages, which has nothing to do with electromigration. The thinner the gate oxide thickness, the less V it can handle.
Peace :toast:
didn't read through this last page too thoroughly, but think about this.
back when bh-5 was out everyone and his m8 bought it and turned their noses up at all ch-5 with its higher ras to cas timings. NO one on these forums liked it, EVERYone laughed at it mainly as things like twinmos 256mb bh-5 sticks were all of £22 2 years ago. no one was paying £20 for ch-5 sticks.
so most people overvolting mem back then were using bh-5 and not ch-5. i had mainly bh-5, 2/3 sticks of ch-5 after prices skyrocketed and towards end of bh-5 ch-5 started to run ras/cas 2 at high voltage but i, and most people didn't really run them for long or that hard.
look at p4's, xp's, ath 64's, personally my top voltage limits i've used since t-birds haven't dropped much, but i don't think i'd put 2.2v through my 0.09 ath 64's, though i did on my newcastles. smaller process is by design not going to react to voltage in the same way and WILL ALMOST CERTAINLY not last as long under same voltage as same chip in a larger die size.
the first and, IMO only thing to gather together info wise is , outta what died who had ch-5 and who had bh-5. its completely unsurprising to me that ch-5 would die quicker or simply not run at the same high voltages that bh-5 would.
the way that some/most boards get reduced voltages from a line is simply , for want of a better word, pulling the extra voltage out as heat before sending the new voltage to the memory. each 0.1v you drop will drop a crap load of heat into the mosfet where its done. so dropping from 5v line down to 4v isn't too bad, dropping and extra 0.8v down to 3.2v starts making that heat extremely high and as it doesn't have a cpu type heatsink on that mosfet well, who knows, that mosfet could definately overheat, wether that could result in some possibly extra high voltage going to memory or simply board dying i don't know, more likely that later though i would think. anyway thats why its dangerous to run low voltages off the 5v jumper.
i'm ordering some more bh-5 this weekend, mainly as this ch-5 utt simply won't do ras/cas 2 over 210-215Mhz or so whatever voltage. i dunno why we aren't just all buying bh-5 garenteed stuff, its out there and costs very little extra. £14 more for a gig of twinmos with bh-5 rather than ch-5 in the uk. and ocz's bh-5 is piss cheap(considering some ram prices and the fact that their limited edition stuff before with the last of the bh-5 was like £200 in the uk, the new bh-5 is £130).
I am impressed that Oskar himself is not only looking into this, but letting folks in on his findings as well.
Heres to a quick resolution
m
does this mean that old school BH-5/6 is skill King? :)
Sure , the high voltage will cause breakdown issue , but if it's this case , the cpu will be dead as well because k8 cpu should have thinner gate oxide thickness compare to .17um BH5 or .15um CH5 ...Quote:
Originally Posted by EMC2
This theory would be acceptable, only the consensus I've seen is UTT-CH scales as high if not higher than UTT-BH when the higher voltages are used.Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkenmaster
Plus, your comparing apples to oranges with your CPU analogy. The delta between the BH (0.15nm) and CH (0.13nm) process is small. Where the P4/A-XP (0.130nm) to A64's (0.09nm) process, not to mention the type processes and transistors used is very large.
And, the same kind of anecdotal analysis can be used to refute your numbers of damaged modules. If damaged UTT-CH modules do out number damaged UTT-BH, than couldn't that simply be the result of more people owning the former rather than the later with this specific mobo?
I've been running off the 5V rail since day one, and haven't had a single problem. Even if the mobo fries my RAM - I'll finally have no excuse for not upgrading to a gig :lol:
Cherries & Peanuts comparison ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by wtz54321
There are different types of scaling and different types of oxides...
UUT DRAM & A64s use quite different processes and materials...
Also keep in mind that the core and the I/O are physically different in the A64...
/me places bets on TDDB effects for memory issues based on BigToe's posted info to date
Folks,
I don't know if this has come up before, but have any of you fried the DIMM slot (not in the literal sense, I mean have any of the DIMM slots been rendered unusable) ?
This happened to me when I used the 5V jumper for just about 3 days. Both my TCCD and BH-5 started giving memtest errors at stock. After a MoBo RMA, everything seems to be fine.
And I have a good PSU, the Bluestorm AX500-A, so I can rule out the PSU. The failure occured after an overnight memtest run at 3.3V.
3.3v is a bit low for using the 5v rail....did you cool the vdimm mosfets?Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Nade
Absolutely! I had 1x92mm fan full speed on the 4V FET and 1x80mm fan blowing over my RAM. Both were cool to the touch. Even if 3.3V is a bit low, why should I encounter problem after I use the 4V option?Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth17
Till this matter is cleared up, I am sticking with my OCZ booster, with both TCCD or BH-5.
dad 5v rail? mosfets dont produce as clean of power off 5v on your board...Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Nade
who knows?
Yes, I did - one dead orange, one yellow - both closest to the CPU socket. Managed to do this by changing the 5v jumper back to 3.3v according to ALL instructions, except that I also cleared cmos simultaneously (and it was nowhere said I shouldn't do it). Afterwards, the slots were dead, but the remaining ones clocked as high as before. Complete mystics to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Nade
Man, that sucks. I could not find any information on your particular case. Help anybody?Quote:
Originally Posted by mrlobber
---mrlobber---
Could you define "dead" in this case please?
Have you tried TCCD mem since then in those slots?
If not have you tried booting with 1 stick, setting timings slack and set FSB to low freq (200 or less) and then retrying DC?
Have you tried another CPU?
Peace :toast:
Please allow me to answer for him :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EMC2
By dead I/he mean(s) defective. Both TCCD and BH-5 show memtest errors on stock settings. TCCD was run with the 4V jumper in the disabled position. Reflashed multiple times (exact procedure as given by RGone/Angry) to no avail. Both TCCD and BH-5 were 24 hrs memtest stable on another board (ASUS A8V). Tried with a fresh 512 Mb stick of Corsair v1.1 BH-5. Same result.
I have a new board after I RMA'd that one. I have not tried using the 4V option. I'll be getting a booster for that. Untill I see a definitive answer, I won't use the 4V option.
Bumping this 1 back up please post to my comments on page 1
What voltage were you running your nb at ?
Default Voltage on the NB.....
Its a Problem with the 5 volt jumper......DFI have admitted this
Ditch this board while you can.......
Also there is some juicy information about to come out about the DFI boards....i cant say anything just yet until i get the authors permission....but OH MY GOD are DFI users going to cry and jump ship.
Everyone deserves a second chance. Lets see them come clean and fix the issue. I wonder how Abit and Sapphire (soon) is able to provide high vdimms without jumpers and switches and stuff like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topboy
please do keep us posted. kinda glad I bought the Abit now
Same here i have moved to the ABIT And it is a much much better product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topboy
I've got three different DFI boards, both of the NF4 have been running 24/7 for several months overclocked with high voltages. I have used the 5v jumper on several occasions testing OCC VX and other UTT. I've yet to have any issues with the boards,....NONE !
topboy, I think you like to stir things up :D
I'm sorry that you had problems with your board
sorry if you think im stiring things up Major.......It seems your experaince is a good 1.
All im saying is that DFI have admitted there is a problem with the board.
Stick you head in the sand Major if you wish.....but i feel it only right to let other users know what DFI have told me.....and what technical information is going to be released very soon regarding the tricks that DFI are playing with its users.
Just sit back Major and watch. The information will be out soon, and will upset SO SO many people.
Topboy
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigtoe
Now i know most will blame my lack of knowledge or something but here is what has happend to me
two DFI SLI-D boards (on my third will be here monday)
two OCZ PC3200 VX kits(my new PC4000 VX arrived from OCZ overnight Fedex thanks OCZ!)
Both Boards ran for roughly 3 weeks and then died all had the jumper set to the 5v line. Each memory kit had one stick die.
Both Boards the DIMM closest to the CPU (orange) was dead. the boards would run fine as long as i only ran one stick of ram in slot 3&4.
My point is i've had 2 sets of ram and 2 DFI boards and with the 5v jumper selected, all have killed DIMM 1 and the stick of ram in it.
For the record i ram my ram@ 3.4v 2-2-2-5 1T 250
To be safe i am just going to use the 3.3 line from now on, hopefully i will be able to run 2-2-2-6 250@3.2 volts with my PC4000 VX....
Out of all these posts Bigtoe seems to "just get it" and realize something just isn't right about this situation.
Thank you DGeNeRaT3
I was starting to think i was banging my head against a wall.
When will people wake up and realise that there is a serious problem with these boards and the 5 volt jumper.
Move boards or move jumpers people...
Zero problems here, just to add my personal experience, I've been running on the 5v jump since my ultra-d was first installed, I moved to 5v before ever powering up the board for the first time so that I wouldn't have to screw with changing later on.
I bought this board when zzf got their first order in around the end of Febuary I believe it was so its among the first batch and it runs 24/7 day in day out, not intermitent, I use this computer largely for doing cad design work all day long, doesn't miss a beat at all.
I don't run high vdimm, only 2.8vdimm, since it has run perfect for a long time now on the 5v rail at 2.8vdimm I don't see a reason to change it.
Anyways, I agree that there must be some boards out there with problems but I know for a fact my board has at the very least lasted more than 3 months of 24/7 operation overclocked with zero hardware related issues to date and continues to work flawlessly.
So I don't think its true by any means to say there is a definitive problem with "all" boards since there are still a large number of us that have had zero problems with 24/7 operation even on the 5v rail.
This is with a Ultra-d, 3700sd 10.5x260, XP120, OCZ 2x1024 Platinum 3200, Antec Neo480, xfx6600gt, 24/7 operation.
Before I got the 3700sd I had a 3500 claw that I was running 11x240 which also was left running 24/7.
I'm sure there are allot of people paranoid after browsing this thread which shouldn't be, this is not an issue with everyone using a dfi nf4 board running memory off the 5v rail.
Err why are you running the 5 volt jumper when you run your ram at 2.8 volts.
I agree there maybe boards out there that are all ok.....BUT the fact remains that DFI admit that running this board on 5 volts can cause ram to die and chipsets to fail
So why dont we run on the 3.3 volt jumper until they fix it....i cant see the harm in this....makes perfect sense to me....and when/if DFI fix this....then we can all jump back onto the 5 volt jumper
I've had no issues with my board as well at 3.5v for three months.
But I do feel that's it's sound advice to move back to the 3.3v line (if possible with your RAM)
honestly topboy, you seem almost "gleeful" that there is a problem.
I take that back - You sound HAPPY. Some type of score to settle?Quote:
Originally Posted by topboy
Umm well because my system has been running flawlessly, why would I want to change something. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by topboy
There wasn't any info regarding the 3.3 vs 5v rail issues when I originally setup my ultra-d, before it was screwed to the mb tray I switched it to the 5v rail.
If in the future I do run into an issue I will definitely post something about it but going on 4 months strong I just don't see it happening at this point.
Very true - however it also opens up liability for the company. :nono:Quote:
Originally Posted by pershoot
As far as I can see - the issue affects a small percentage of the "enthusiast" market that the board is targeted at.
I agreeQuote:
Originally Posted by soundx98
Im also yet to see ANY solid comfirmation from DFI that there is a problem.
I say it AGAIN and AGAIN, if this board is voltage spiking enough to kill Ram it will blow the on die controller before the Ram, this (contray to DFI board killing Ram) has been proven with the early Shuttle boards.
Im getting increasly p!ssed off with ppl bleating about boards killing Ram with NO evidence.
Lets ALL just wait until some serious testing has been done by ppl that ACTUALY know what thier talikng about :stick:
its not the boards imo....people are just mad because they actually had something die (which is half expected when you overclock) and they are looking for somewhere to point their finger. the dfi nf4 is probly one of the most popular boards so why not blame it on that? lol ill almost guarantee the UTT is the problem. its new and dies a lot. heck, twinmos stopped warrantying any UTT based product they sold. if that doesnt tell you something then i dont know what will....yes you can test it to 5v at -85c and it will survive for under a min without problems. but running 3.5v at 40c for days on end is where the product fails. i agree with jiff, it would kill the memory controllers if there was a voltage spike. ive yet to see a case where the memory controller was killed along with the ram....
Switch it back to the 3.2 IMMEDIATELY. You've been lucky not to have any issues yet, but you're gonna run into some in the future with that much of a discrepancy between your 2.8V and the 5v rail. IIRC, the bigger the difference between the two voltages, the higher chance that a particular IC which is fed by the 5v rail is going to fail.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
:confused: Running 3,72 Vdimm from 5-V-rail for more than 3 month, no problem at all.
Don't blame DFI generally ppl - they replaced my first DOA Ultra-D with a SLI-D without extra costs!!!
Fine customer care.
:toast:
HCC, 3.72 is MUCH safer to run than 2.8:Quote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
5V-3.72V = 1.28V which is better than 5V-2.8V = 2.2V ;)
Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
Yeah I relealize there is more heat generated for running it this way but I'm comfortable with it running this way, I also have a 80mm fan cooling the upper mosfet on the corner of the board, the xp120 seems to do a decent job around the socket.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I'm going to just ride this pony till she falls for the sake of research, takin one for the team, at least then I can positively say my ultra-d only lasted xx months at 2.8vdimm on the 5v rail before it kicked.
If it does fail I won't hesitate to buy another one but I will be sure to leave it on the 3.3v rail next time, that is if I do in fact have problems in the future.
If I don't have any problems well then we'll all have a better idea of durability of these boards stepping down the vdimm way down under the 5v rail.
Hey, NP, I totally understand. You're just lucky you got a board that worked for as long as it did. Me? I'm on my 6th board :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
exactly. its a linear design and the extra power is just dumped into the mosfet as heat. thats bad when running something too low. you are taking 5.1v (around that) adn changing it to whatever you set it to. the lower you set the voltage, the more heat and the more room for error. anything above 3.3v is pretty good, but should always have a fan blowing on the top rigth corner of the board when using the 5v rail jumper no matter what...Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
;) Yep - now I remember Oskar told us some time ago to use not the 5-V-rail when the Vdimm is below 3,2......Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
BTW - where is the point using 5-V-rail with only 2,8??? :confused:
:toast:
exactly...and the 3.3v rail would be more stable in that caseQuote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
:D Subscribed - but two are better than one..........Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth17
<img src="http://img37.echo.cx/img37/2407/computer37lu.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" />
<img src="http://img37.echo.cx/img37/6916/computer79hf.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" />
And WC for GPU & chipset also prevents system from overheating.......
<img src="http://img117.echo.cx/img117/5223/katzencomputer0191vh.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" />
The pic is an older release - now I have heatsinks on the GPU RAM and the small fan on the photo is a special creation to get some air to the downside of the vid card..........
<img src="http://img117.echo.cx/img117/4797/katzencomputer0166xy.jpg" alt="Image Hosted by ImageShack.us" />
:toast:
No point in it anymore but originally I thought I was going to be pumping allot more voltage to the memory than I ended up using. In the end the memory just didn't respond very well to higher vdimm so there I was, been on the 5v rail since.Quote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
Since there where little to no information on the 2gb kit of ocz platinum memory I figured I'd have the extra juice available from the getgo.
;) So Stephen is right - if You're satified with the 2,8 save the board's life and switch back to the 3.3-V-rail......Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
:toast:
Just remember this, even IF...i'm just saying IF.... DFI found the board is to blame for all those dead rams out there, do you really think they'll admit it then announce and release the bad news to the public that they'd screwed up?!?! :lol: think about the consequences if they're stupid enough to do that....can you even imagine how many people going to start requesting coverage for all those dead rams out there?!?!
I'll be using the 5V line tomorrow. For a refreshing newbie taste to this post, what should I set the voltage to before switching the jumper :wasntme:
Nice to see you again HCC, haven't seen you for a while :)
yep and three are better than two :DQuote:
Originally Posted by HARDCORECLOCKER
ill get a pic if i get a chance....nice job with the stock dfi chipset cooler too lol
With the weirdness happening I wonder if the jumper change itself might not be the risk that takes out Ram if not done right. I know when I changed slots without changing jumper, the detection time was much longer. I wonder what would have happened if I had changed the jumper at the same time.
u had 5 boards die on you and u didnt mention a word about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by s7e9h3n
To whom? If you mean in this thread, none have died from using the 5v Vdimm since I run tccd......Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
and I doubt its under normal 24/7 use... i.e. LN2.. dry ice... cascade...Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
Well, it was, sorta....2 came doa, 1 I found a bulging cap, another killed my fx55 (Either that or I did, but exchanged the board anyways because I hated it for killing my favorite cpu :p: ), and my last one just plain and simply just crapped out on me - would go through the entire boot sequence, just nothing was showing up on my monitor :confused: . This one seems to be running OK, but it's definately not as good a OC'r as my prior one... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by dippyskoodlez
well there were plenty of "my dfi has problems..." plus many others, so it would be helpful in helping to assess failures
So I don't make that mistake again :rolleyes: , could you please tell me how/what I should have posted about my boards that could have helped other members here?Quote:
Originally Posted by situman
Maybe started a thread stating I got a DOA board? Or maybe one titled "LOOK EVERYONE! I GOT A DFI WITH A BULGING CAPACITOR!", or maybe one like "I DON"T KNOW WHY NOTHING'S SHOWING ON MY SCREEN" Trust me, I've done my part here trying to help others and if you haven't noticed, I've been a little busy trying to share info about a few cpus which could be considered a *bit* more interesting than my dead dfi's.
im with you s7e9h3n
Let them find out for themselves
Like you .... i know what NOT to do....and i WILL NOT be running the 5V on a DFI thats if i run a DFI again
Good luck all
Im off to play with my new ABIT and X2 4800
You mean +5V jumper will kill the NF4 chipset in this board once you ever use it ? Where did you get this information ? I know you post some information about what you hear from DFI SJ that using +5V jumper may kill some ic on the board , but are you sure he means it's the NF4 chipset ? I have read many threads about the memory death on this board ... But you seems to be the only guys that kill your board even after you switch back to 3.3V ??? And it seems you are very angry about the board die even you switch back to 3.3V , are you sure the NF4 chipset is really killed by the 5V jumper once you ever use it ? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by topboy
BTW, according to DFI you can't or you shouldn't do that. You have to boot with 3.3V line and change CPU VID from manual setting to AUTO in order to be able to use 3.2+ VDIMM. At least according to their manual.Quote:
Originally Posted by highoctane
I also, I also think the board is to blame, but topboy, what is with all the suspense?
:D THX mate - I hate it to have unused fans laying around........Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth17
@Juliette:
Was absent caused by holidays and then had a lot of work............, but wait till the FX-57 is released - think I will post then till my fingers are bleeding :p:
:toast:
Official statement from Oskar Wu (DFI Engineer) :)
Source :Quote:
Sorry , but I did not know anything like what you said ...
If you use 5V jumper to select the voltage higher than the DRAM or CPU can handle , either your CPU or DRAM will be damaged ...
If the high voltage cause the current over the MOSFET limit , the DRAM regulator may be damaged ...
But that number will be 53A continous when the MOSFET working under 100 degree Celcius , the peak current this MOSFET can handle is above 200A ...
The MOSFET we use in DRAM power regulator is PHILIPS PHD78NQ03LT ...
http://www.semiconductors.philips.co...78NQ03LT_4.pdf
Anyway , all these are expected to happened when the board released ...
We have put enough warning about all these thing ...
Please be understand that the NF4 chipset is not power by DRAM voltage ...
Also DFI or any other company will not gurantee or be responsible to anything damaged when you set voltage beyond the chip spec(cpu , dram , chipset , pci-e graphics or anything else ) ...
I don't know what you hear from DFI SJ , but I never say anything like this to anyone in DFI SJ ...
http://www.dfi-street.com/forum/show...&postcount=111
hmmm....so whats that mean? there is are isnt issues?Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
Yeah Yeah I know I've read about all these things now, I didn't make it my priority to read through every detail when I built the system, not only that theres countless posts about every detail at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by hovo73
Coulda shoulda woulda, its all too late to say that about the situation now when this was done months ago and the fact remains it works fine regardless of the sequence used to do it. The first thing I did with this board was move the jumper to put the memory on the 5v rail, it worked fine and my board has been running perfect since, knock on wood.
I'm guessing the reason they say run the vdimm up is so that the power mosfet doesn't have to step the voltage down so far possibly causing damage or undue stress under certain conditions.
Anyways I probably did a bunch a things that weren't by the book but I have no complaints about the outcome, I actually have more fears of changing something that might trigger a problem.
Well that definitely helps clears some of the smoke/speculation surrounding the issue, at the very least we know the chipset should not be affected by using the 5v rail for vdimm.Quote:
Originally Posted by tictac
has anyone ever thought about just doing a vdimm volt mod? i know you are thinking "who needs more than 4v?" but thats not the purpose. i was thinking that a vdimm mod would possible reduce the risk of spiking as the pot is what controlling the voltage rather than a 3cent IC, and it might also fix or reduce the cold boot issue as the voltage it applied manually, so as soon as you turn the board on the dimms have the voltage....
just a thought....