So what can i use?
Printable View
So what can i use?
Stainless flex hose.
and for oil with r402 any of the standard oils are fine.
Heyyy chilly welcome to my growing thread lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by chilly1
Stainless flex hose? never heard of it. Is it available at any hardware store?
I think no one use something for keeping wool in place. Just fill oil separator from bottom to top with wools
Nice flame :)
EDIT :
I didn't notice new post, this topic is really fast in growing
Stainless flexible hose - it's a hose made by stainless steel and it's corrugated (and thanks to that it's elastical)
There are photos
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/5023032...Gas_Cooker.jpg
http://www.gorajec.net/raven/noiselessDD/szron2.jpg
Go to a hydrolic equipment store, or look in net.Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
they are quite cheap and fine. You can cut and braze to copper easily.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../sliblock9.jpg
Well when you next go th the hardware store look for the stainless steel gas flex line. about 10.00 at homedepot they are a little large but will work.Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
Small update today. I went to the shop and built my oil separator. I dono if the separator is large enough this is the largest ID copper tubing the shop has so i hope its good enough. Does it matter where i put the separator weather its before or after the condensor just as long its before the cap tube?
I also found some copper wool in the kitchen last night so thats what i used i hope noone comes looking for it :p:
Since theres no place around here to get a block of copper or a place to machine it into an evap i had to take a different route one im not sure will work or not. Its built but im not ready to post the evap on here just yet.
Better before condenser, otherwise oil will lay on condenser's pipes and make worse heat transfering between air and gas
Dangit i already brazed up the condensor o well i suppose i could rip it apart again :( It was gonna go compressor-desuperheater-condensor-oil separator-cap tube.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
Other than that the separator is ok for size and all?
What are separator's dimensions?
BTW, what you call a condenser in second stage, it's really a desuperheater
The desuperheater is the small loop of tubing behind the fan when i say condensor im talking about the HX.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
As for the separator's size i hope this helps.
Ah, then ok :)Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
I assume that there length unit is inch, in my opinion this oil separator isn't a quite tall and too low, theQuote:
As for the separator's size i hope this helps.
ID length is fine, it should work. But fill it fully with wools.. :) PC_ICE had make a lot of oil separators
like as your (but with caps on ends), you may ask him what he thinks about it
It's already filled with copper wool. Now that i know its ok im gonna braze it to the system. BBL with pics.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
look at this pic of his acetylene/air torch here, there is a important lesson here. the flame hase 2 parts the primary flame and the secondary flame. the blue pencil tip is the hottest and should be just touching the pipe for the most heat, but the most important lesson of this pic is in the secondary flame. Notice the green color, This is a idication the copper tube is up to brazing temperature. learn to read your torchs color pattern and this will tell you when jouint is ready to braze.
Look for dull red copper tube & green secondary flame
ps :nice photo!!!
edit,why didn't the photo didn,t move with the quote look at post 200 in this thread
I don't understand what you mean. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
I wanted to bump the photo,in fact the was the most important part.
UPDATE!!
I installed the oil separator this evening found a nice little spot for it right in front. I flared 2 peices of 3/8 tubing for the oil separator valve and braze a cap tube on to one of the 3/8 peices than ran the cap tube along the bottom under the second stage compressor and up the other side. I brazed the other end of the cap tube to a peice of 1/2 tubing that i had already brazed a shraider valve onto for servicing the system at an earlier date i just need to braze this 1/2 peice onto the suction line on the compressor.
I also bought some switches and wired up both compressors and the condensor fan with the dimmer switch. The condensor fan will come one when first stage is switched on.
Would 90 inches of cap tube be too long for the second stage?
Systems is looking nice good place for the oil seperator, I would of thought that 90” of capillary line would be too short for the metering device for the secondstage (low stage), what ID would you be using ??
or do you mean 90” of capillary line for the oil return from the oil sperator?? Oil separator line can be as long / or as short as you want, any ID would be fine.
It is for the second stage and not the oil separator. How do u measure the ID of a cap tube anyway??? its just so dang small :confused: :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
Heres a pic i couldn't add in the last post because of the 5 pic limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
looks good.
it looks like 0.026" (0.6mm) or 0.028" (0.7) by eye have to check packet label.
but as long as it doesnt flood too much should be ok.
i always start long and cut short, co2 is cheap. some time will be suprised what a longer lenght of capillary can do :stick:
Good grief, what are all the valves for? That's ghetto to the max!
You measure the id of a captube with a little tool that has rods the same diameter as the outside of the captubes, and you hold it against it and check.
There are a few of capillary tubes which go to high stage evaporator ;) They have different lengths, those valves
are supposed for experiments (?), you open first valve (other are closed), temperatures are no good, then you
close first valve and open second valve. And you repeat it until you will know which capillary tube will provide
the best evaporating temperature.
What he said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonic
I don't have that tool for measuring cap tubes nor do i have the packet label. As for the length u think that 90" is too short being that its either 0.6 or 0.7mm?
Well heres my evap (its all i could think of to use) my problem is i don't know what can i do to make a wavy path inside this unless you guys can think of another way to make an evap. :stick:
check out lardarse's end cap evaps. their very simplr to make and cheap too
[QUOTE=f00t]check out lardarse's end cap evaps. their very simplr to make and cheap too[/
End cap evaps? I think i know what ur refering to. Ill take a look around next time im at the hardware store.
[QUOTE=_HL4E_HalfLife_]yeah i would try and make one of those. that flattened pipe business dosent look very promisingQuote:
Originally Posted by f00t
Not much to report today other than getting some end caps to use as my evap.Ill need to get my torch refilled either on saturday or monday i don't have enough gas left in it to put my evap together. :(
You dont plan on opening more than one of those valves (on the cap tube) at one time do you? It doesnt look as if you have enough on each one of those though looks can be devieving. Why didnt you buy a txv for the price of all those valves. It looks like you have a nice project over here. I cant wait to see the final product.
No only 1 valve will be open at a time.All the valves are used i just got em from the shop and they costed nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JSU
I saw ur post in my other thread,so now u really think im ready to be building this?
ya got the evap, now just need some co2 and ya cooling.
do you have a copper plate?? to fiinish it?
OMG I cant believe no one has answered what oil is for in a system. Oil in a system has to be compatible with the refrgierant being used. AKA. The oil has to absorb some of the refrgierant (i guess it would do this like water and co2). Once you pass the suction line and all the refrigerant is boiled off the oil which is cool goes into the compressor. It then continues to release any refrigerant left in it which cools down the compressor. The reason for doing it this way as apposed to having liquid come into the compressor is b/c liquid is not compressable and the oil which the refrigerant absorbed in it i guess is. It seems like the oil takes the refrgierant from a hp absorbed liquid to a lp gas. Hermetic compressors work this way. Rotarys dont fully benefit from this therefore you have to make sure to have a lower superheat than normal.
Does my opinion effect the building of this? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
The new Canadian Tire store that just opened here (biggest one in the province) has co2 tanks for paintballs so im gonna get a 20oz for $54.99 and is refillable is that a good deal?
Kayl its not here at home but theres some 2" ID caps at the shop ill just cut the sides off 1 of thoes.
For the evap i saw that the one stockhatch did of the lardarse's evap he drilled large holes in the side of each end cap. I have a bit different idea for that what if i drilled 4 smaller holes on each side and drill them on an angle so the liquid will be forced down toward the base of the evap would that be more effective?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSU
So what are you saying JSU are u saying i did something wrong with the oil? :confused:
no, you guys were just wondering what oil does and why you have to have it circulate.
Its better not to have the oil circulate, however when you cant stop the oil circulating it needs to be miscable with the refrigerant in order for the oil to be returned to the compressor, its sole purpose is to lubricate the moving parts, not to aid with cooling of the compressor. Thats the job of the suction vapour and the condensor fan also aids here.Quote:
Originally Posted by JSU
Regards
John.
sorry thats not the case. iam sure they could come up with a way of lubricating the compressor without having the oil circulate. btw chilly1 told me about the oil being used to cool the compressor ;) .
Ok good. So about my evap would doing what i said in the previous post help or no?
Its called an oil seperator ;) But the ideal would be an oil less compressor.
Oil circulating coats the condensor and evaporator reducing their efficiency.
Trust me, Chilly1 would love a fool proof and cheap method of not having any oil circulating :D
Regards
John.
It certainly wouldnt do any harm, although I doubt the thickness of the end caps would really direct the refrigerent towards the base
Regards
John
Thats what ill do than and see how it works.Quote:
Originally Posted by pythagoras
look at cryonic refrigeration , they use asorbers, they are sponges for oil, the problem is they don't release it,they are expensive and not reusable,they must be changed and oil has to be added to the pump.
UPDATE!
This update is just redoing some stuff to stage 1. I've been having some problems with the temps sometimes it only goes to -20c other times it goes to -40c the point is the temps were all over the place and wern't stable at all so i recovered most the 402A from the system and once it was all out i changed the filter drier (new one in pic) this one is a bit longer then the last one. I also removed a bullet piercing valve from the suction line and brazed on a T and a schrader valve.
After that was all done I vacuumed the system with the duel compressors and i ran the torch over all the lines and the condensor to help remove all the moisture than recharged the system. I had the first valve open (15" captube) and the temp went right down to -43.5c and stayed there thats pretty dam good for 15". I closed off the first valve and opened the second valve (20"cap) and the temp droped down to -47.3. So being pleased with the results so far i closed off the second valve and opened the 3rd (30" cap) and thats where i stoped. See 2nd pic for reason (The Thermometer's low limit is -50c.) Ill have to buy a meter that can go down to -120c at least before i try that last 2 valves.
Ps. Sry about quality of 2nd pic i had to turn the flash off otherwise u can't
read the guages :(.
BTW what is the record on xs for the lowest first stage temp?
Nice results... good work :D
oil seperaters are not used in single stage hermetic compressor systems. With the second stage of a cascade the suction line is much colder than normal allowing more cooling so you dont have to rely on the oil to cool the compressor. We would all like a oil less system but thats the way these are designed to work ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pythagoras
Can anyone conferm the boiling point of R764(sulfur dioxide) im getting mixed results about its bp.
Here is said that its bp is -76c
http://www.wc101.com/guides/refridgeration/page6.htm
Here its said that its bp is -10c
http://www.xtremeresources.com/forum...chmentid=11714
If it is -76c thats good because i have access to R764
Wikipedia claims -10C.
Yeah and isnt it quite toxic? Weren't you going to do Co2 like kayl?
sulphur dioxide is terrible stuff to work with.. ruins vacuum pumps and yes, its toxic.
I guess they should correct that bp than. I had asked a while back with no answers :mad: if adding some Nitrogen to the co2 mixture will lower its bp since Nitrogen has a much lower bp (-195.9c)?
Also I think im using 0.028 or 0.026 cap tubing what should work better?90"(7.5 feet) or 120"(10feet)
Nitrogen has too high condensing pressure at your first stage evaporating temperature and it won't work as second stage gas's addict
I've begun making my evap and man is it ever easy to braze the silfos flows like water :D! Ill post some pics tonight but i can't finish it untill monday since i don't have the base yet.
O and BTW im going with 120"(10 feet) of cap tubing.
Heres some pics of the evap i've started to build. This is the outer shell that u see here. I got a good strong braze on the suction line as u can see the silfos on the outside and inside. Instead of using a T for the cap tube to come out of the suction line i just drilled a small hole in the side and just pushed the cap tubing through there (I just think it looks nicer than using a T).
R23 very good 2nd stage refridgerent.
If you don't have a cap tube cutter just take a small 3 corner file and file a groove completly around the tube, then "snap" it there . You should have a smooth end with the full internial diameter visable.
This is especially critical at the entrance so turbulance is not created and you have a good liquid seal
That one looks like you cut it with a ax.
I use a boxcutter blade and make a groove in it than i bend it sharply to brake it off.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
did you use the 0.028". thats a good starting point.Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
looking good, dont worry about wc101 they have alot of facts screwed up about refrigerants ;) they still have the argon+r134a myth posted if iam not mistaken.
:lol: :hehe: :ROTF: :lol2: :rotf:Quote:
Originally Posted by JSU
To be honest i still dono what size it is. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by kayl
IMO the cap tube looks way bigger than a 0.028" If on the picture you compare it to the "Q-tip" you should see that the cap tube is way bigger. I did a fast comparision of a 0.031" and a Q-tip and the 0.031 is still smaller. I think you'll need a LOT of this cap tube to be able to achive right temps.
Edit, ermm well he showed it to me on webcam it looks like a 0.031 and lower. It's smaller than how it looks on the pic :slapass:
cap tube measuring tool or you can use a caliper with dial indicator or micrometer.
U got a bigger pic of that thing i can't make it out?Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
it just has 2 V slots for measuring the od and different wire sizes for id(like tip cleaners for a torch but smooth)
UPDATE!!
I finished building my evap today. The worst possibile thing happened while i was putting it together the cap tube had a block in the section that was in the evap. In an attempt to free the block i put pressure in the cap tube up to 400psi with no luck :(. Next i tried reheating the evap so its red and while doing that i have about 40psi in the cap tube hoping whatever was blocking it to melt and be forced out the end....that didn't work so the last thing i tried was to keep it red hot and try to pull the cap tube out of the evap. When i tried this the cap tube broke off right at the base of the evap so with little else i could do i drilled another hole through all the end caps right next to the orignal captube and brazed it in place this time there was no block :D and than i finally brazed the outer cover in place. I still have to sand the bottom and grind the bottom plate down to size.
One last pic.
I don't think the base is thick enough...also I hope you're going to clean the inside of the evap since you didn't used an inert gas?
Pipes and all that are not that bad without inert gas, but evap is not thinkable...
And I doubt your base is thick enough has crash diner said...
Well its not like theres anything i can do about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by skate2snow
BTW what would u use to clean an evap? I've already pumped some R11 through it.
I hope you use a pressure releif valve!!!
Whats that have to do with cheaning the evap? or the base being too thin?Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
when your system clogs up from not using a sheilding gas, you don't end up with "half your life" , "halflife"....... you ask.
Thats what filter driers are for. Im sure u know of such a device? :D :slap:Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
they clog up, there are for small amounts of debrie, not for a complete disregard for correct assembly practices.
Well excuse me for not doing everything UR way! Have u ever thought that i might not have a propane stove.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
A blocked filter in a single stage just will cause it to stop cooling, a blocked filter in a cascade can cause it to go :explode2: :explode2: :explode2: :slap:
Please explain ur replys in more detail just saying that a blockage in 2nd stage will cause it to explode isn't telling much.Quote:
Originally Posted by wdrzal
Hm, with blocked filter, pressure on discharge line increases, on suction lowers. I don't know how it should explode,
but probably wdrzal meant parts on high pressure side which can become balloons :D
BTW today i called Kerr Controls and im getting them to fax me a price on a UEI DT150 Thermometer i should know what one will cost by the end of the week. I also got them to send down some flex tubing im not sure if it will work untill i get a look at exactly what it is because they sent it for free.
Man, filter driers has a limit! Why in the laundry you change the filter?
Pipes and all that is not that bad if you dont use inert gas and you clean after..... But dont think about it with evaps.... If you didnt use some inert gas for the pipes additionnaly, your cascade may come almost has dangerous has a bomb..... Can I know why you ask questions and after argue on the reply?
Because from what some of u reply is like u don't read the post before u reply to it,and as i said before i don't have an inert gas to use thats why i asked what i could use to chean it and i have yet to get an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by skate2snow
BTW stockhatch made the same evap as i did and didn't use an inert gas and he seems to be doing fine.
The flex tubing arrived today but im still not sure it will work here a pic of them anyhow.
H270AB SERIES ECOSAFE HOSE
Model No. Length Operating Pressure Temperature Range
H270AB-18 18" 600 psig max. –50-300°F
H270AB-36 36" 600 psig max. –50-300°F
Includes: Steel 1⁄4" flare, straight and 90° connectors, stainless steel braiding, teflon tubing.
Stockhatch didn't try to build a cascade.
every cascade should have a pressure releif valve.This will ensure a controlled release of pressure if a failure occurs.
What safety devcices are you goung to use?
those hoses wont do for a cascade. the teflon in them will leak over time and they are still essentially the same as charging hoses
this is what you need for a cadcade:
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/5023031...xible_Hose.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by f00t
I can't get those noone around here seems to have them so much for being ez to get.
This isn't so much as an update but just to correct any misbeliefs about the rotary compressor and oil issues that was talked about on page 8.
I finished opening my old rotary compressor that i had been using as a vacuum pump and what i found wasn't surprising. Rotarys are self-lubricating so oil return is i would say just a by-product of the compressor keeping its bearings oiled and its high rotating speed. See pics below.
Man, use CO2 or Nitrogen (CO2 not recommended since its cold when going out with most reg...).... You can find those everywhere and its a need.... Or AT LEAST, propane.... Just very low pressure of propane... Once in air propane will most liely not ignite.... But you need to be very careful....
And I would also really like to know what security devices you will use?
You will see when i get them.Quote:
Originally Posted by skate2snow
Minor update.
I'm adding a mesh filter to my 2nd stage to help prevent blockage in the system. You can find these filters in TXV's this just happen to be an extra one lying around.
EDIT: I also ran out of silfoss :( so any more brazing will have to wait till thursday.
Dont tell me you will use a rusted pressure ball valve please;).... Seriously, if there is something you should need help with is choosing your security device... The most important thing is your secutirty and not your temps. Because if you happen to use a totally unefficient security device after saying you will see when I have them, I think you may be a little angry after you.... If you are still there....lolQuote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
its good to have a dt150.Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
get a quote on the dt200 as well the xtra probe helps when tuning.
and it will last ya foreva
Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
just run it with an old compressor few hours and oil and refrigerant will clean it nice.
I can't get the stainless steel flex hose so im just gonna use copper tubing and be done with it.
BTW a DT200 costs like $50 more than a DT150 I simply don't have the $$$.
actually DT200 is 20-25$ more...... IF the probe is more then 100$, forget it, you know someone who can do better prices;)
Ok for some reason he got me a price for a DT200 $170. Ill have to call them up tomorrow and find out about the DT150.Quote:
Originally Posted by skate2snow
is that in us dollars, also search the net for prices.??Quote:
Originally Posted by _HL4E_HalfLife_
they are alot cheaper, you can get them from chilly1, thats where i got mine.
too expensive home town too.
get a fluke 16 on ebay for <75 multimeter,uf, temp ,,,,,, check them out get a used one under 50.00
Chilly1 sells the DT200 for 120-130$ IIRC!
No CanadianQuote:
Originally Posted by kayl
<
<
<
<
Got another part today a high pressure cutoff switch. The switch is rated to open at 350psi and will close at 250psi.
I'm getting the DT150 for $140 Cad plus tax. Should have it in a week. :D