Well the Z77 and Z68 are not different for the Intel Raid Controller. So Unless Intel adds Device ID blocks in a Rom or driver Z68 should work just fine?
Well the Z77 and Z68 are not different for the Intel Raid Controller. So Unless Intel adds Device ID blocks in a Rom or driver Z68 should work just fine?
that's what i'm wondering, a block
fill test with Vantage that provides concrete proof
Intel says its not supposed to work they didnt say it will not.
oh, so hope for my poor C600? we need more intel intel!
Can someone explain what I Should be running in vantage and be looking for? So I do this right. I never used vantage before.
first run a Vantage HDD test with an empty array then record the score. then You will need a 30gb block of data composed of various data like movies, music, games, iso's etc. then copy and paste data onto the array as many times as necessary to fill the array 25% then run Vantage hdd test and record the score. then fill the drive to 50% run Vantage hdd test and record the score. then fill the drive to 75% full run Vantage hdd test and record the score. Then DELETE the data and run Vantage hdd test one last time. If the score goes back to or very, very close ( like within 2000 points) what it was with the clean run then TRIM is working of it goes back up slightly or stays the same then TRIM is not working. you will need to run advanced version to do HDD test so if you need to use my serial number let me know. also no restarting and run tests quickly one after another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazog
Ah I guess I wont be doing this soon. I have my drives at 25% empty and don't plan to clean install for a few weeks. Thanks for the info on how to do this. I assume someone else will beat me to the test for z68.Quote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
I am not sure regarding this point, but maybe we will find it out by comparing the details of both RAID Controllers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazog
The tool RWEverywhere is able to look into the depth of the Controllers.
>Here< I have published today the RWEverything tool details about my Z77 RAID Controller, which definitively supports the TRIM command.
So anyone with a 6-series RAID Controller may run the RWEverywhere tool and compare the details with those of the Z77 RAID Controller. I bet, that there are differences.
It needs to be run as secondary storage not "C"
Mine looks identical for my Z68, other than it being stored differently in the bios since I have a different board. Everything else matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando
I tried replacing the option rom in my bios for my DFI t3eh8 (x58), and it doesn't work. I've tried it before, but since there's trim support for raid 0, I wanted to try again.
It doesn't brick the mb, but the option rom does nothing. The odd thing is, when it posts, it shows that it's still trying to use the old 8.xx option rom, throwing an error, then continues to attempt to boot after showing the acpi table (from other sources cdrom,usb, etc). This is exactly the problem I was getting when I tried to do this mod a year or so ago.
It also appears that the updated option rom is at least twice the size than the option rom in the bios.
Can anyone that is more knowledgeable than me help me figure this out? I think it's really dumb dfi disappeared in 2010, and never bothered thinking people needed 2TB + support....
Uploaded is my current bios and the option rom already extracted. It's an award bios.
Note* I have added a slic table to this rom for my own purposes.
http://depositfiles.com/files/t4rn2y10a
Hoping Intel just decided to do the Z77 first with the Z68 to follow...but unless I see screenshots of a Z68 Vantage fill test to confirm, looks like I'll be upgrading my mobo.
/me goes browsing NewEgg...
that asus mVG looks neat...
SSD RAID 0 TRIM Confirmed - Dreams Do Come True
http://www.rwlabs.com/article.php?id=672
Will Anvil's TRIM your array?Quote:
Originally Posted by m.oreilly
Why don't you just do the simple Hex Editor test according >this< post? This will not stress your SSDs at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazog
Here are the differences between the Intel Z77 and Z68 SATA RAID Controllers shown within the RWEverything tool summary:Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazog
- Revision ID:
Z77: 0x04
Z68: 0x05- Subsystem ID:
Z77: 0x84CA1043
Z68: 0x844D1043
Is there a way to substitute these strings?
I get CDI passthrough as well on my P45 system with the 1207 driver. No updated OROM yet (still on 10.1.0.1008).Quote:
Originally Posted by m.oreilly
What do you think is the "passthrough" verification by the tool CrystalDiskInfo?Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang
Just flashed my P45 with a modded BIOS with OROM 11.5.0.1582. Using driver 11.5.2.1001 on Win7 x64. No hang ups on OS load or anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang
I can view disks in RAID individually, could not do before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando
Have not tried the Vantage test on any RAID SSD config, and probably can't for another week or so (I can't empty them out quite yet), but at least the OROM and drivers took on this chipset.
Crystaldiskinfo added the ability to inspect individual drives in Intel raid arrays at about 4.6 or so. Been around for ages.
and this CDI "Passthrough" has nothing to do with TRIM.Quote:
Originally Posted by canthearu
hehe, this could be it. i never used it until now, because i always run an array. lol
no, but it goes to show that gaining access to individual members (in an array) is not as dramatic as may once have been thought, though this is fakeraid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando
I just got a statement from Intel they say all drivers 11.0 and newer support RAID 0 TRIM. They also say no 6 series chipsets are supported.
Here is my latest project. http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...220847363.html I'm trying to RAID a couple of these together hopefully they will be able to pass TRIM through LOL!
At least they stepped up and put all the speculation to bed.
yup, the email blast from Intel is causing quite the stir! many users will now forgo RAID on controllers in favor of the onboards until they get the controllers figured.
oh well...Quote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
i would like to see how much of a difference trim plays in daily performance maintenance, as opposed to just GC in modern ssds. i know FW has advanced to the point many of us raiders continue to have top performance even on OS arrays (i've gotten my highest scores on 'dirty' OS bound arrays). it would be nice to have a thread dedicated to performance over time (and individual speed differences, if any, with trim involved). anyway, i'm happy raid trim for intel based controllers (albeit 7 series only) is working, and under win7 to boot!
Its no biggie for you because Vertex 4 have GC. SandForce drives dont so TRIM is big for SF usersQuote:
Originally Posted by m.oreilly
Damn it! Well I've been eyeballing a couple of Z77s...time to choose. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
Msi or asus
Am a faithful Asus user...looks like the P8Z77V-Pro most likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
So glad it doesn't require Win8...actually, according to the PR release today, raid trim for Win8 isn't supported yet but coming soon.
sounds like a good choice
So we need to OROM hack or driver hack to have Z68 support? WOW, pretty bad of intel to do this.
gives you smart guys something to have a go atQuote:
Originally Posted by Dazog
Intel sent a bunch of press this today.
"Trim on RAID 0 for SSDs is supported in the Intel RST driver versions 11.0 and newer. Currently available for the general public on Intel’s downloads site is RST driver version 11.2 which offers TRIM support on RAID 0 compatible with MS Windows 7 OS on Intel 7 series chipsets (earlier chipsets NOT supported). Intel is also working on a future release providing support for TRIM on RAID 0 on Microsoft Windows 8 OS for Intel 7 series chipsets."
It is starting to go up on review sites and most likely a bunch of sites are going to test it.
From what I recall, doesn't 11.2 not pass TRIM to RAID 0. Intel also didn't mention the Option ROM requirement so I see big steaming piles of fail coming. Let's all sit back and watch the janitors of SSD reviews publish articles claiming they have RAID 0 TRIM working with 11.2 but not update the OROM.
I know, that was mean but we all know it is coming.
Lets go smart people! Haxor away to get Z68 support please!
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang
Quote:
Originally Posted by canthearu
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando
Yep, just like m.oreilly, I haven't used it in a while so it was a shock seeing individual drive members. Last time I used it was v4.0.2 when I was doing some SSD endurance testing. I new CDI "passthrough" had nothing to do with TRIM though. Oh well, here's to hoping it will works now or will eventually work on a P67.Quote:
Originally Posted by m.oreilly
Edit: Also regarding CDI, I was going on the RW Labs article which said:
"Here is a shot of CDI, it’s now able to list the drives separately EVEN THOUGH they are actually part of an array."
"Here is the other drive in our array. This is stunning because prior to this an array would not be able to be listed in CDI. The OS can now see the individual drives in an array!"
Yes, there are more new questions than answers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Highendtoys
Additional point:
The "Trim in RAID0" feature definitively works on Z77 RAID systems running Windows 8. Why do they write, that the currently available Intel RAID drivers do not support it in a Win8 environment?
I wrote that article and like you that was the first time I had seen CDI list drives in RAID 0. I apologize for the mis-leading info.Quote:
Originally Posted by bluestang
No harm, no foul. I think we're all on new ground figuring out what works and what doesn't. Not sure if even Intel knows 100% at this moment.
I'm hoping to find time this weekend to check out P67 on Win7. Not sure if anyone has given that setup a test yet.
After having done some additional tests with the "Hex Editor method" I have verified, that the Intel RST driver v11.2.0.1006 definitively lets the TRIM command passthrough the RAID Controller to the SSD members (the Offset area of the previously deleted jpg file has been zeroed out within seconds - like with the actual RSTe v11.5 drivers).
But: Although I have completely uninstalled the RST(e) drivers and software pack v11.5.2.1001 and deleted the iaStorF entries from witthin the registry, my RAID Controller still is using the Intel RAID ROM module v11.5.0.1582.
It has to be investigated, if the Trim in RAID0 feature still is working after having replaced the Intel RSTe RAID OROM v11.5 by an actual Intel RST v11.x.x.xxxx module.
look forward to seeing the resultsQuote:
Originally Posted by bluestang
Hey fellas,
Longtime lurker here. Bill and I were talking about this and he recommended I join this thread. I have a P67UD5-B3 with the 11.5 OROM and a couple sandforce drives (with working TRIM). Is Vantage fill the only way we can test if TRIM works on windows 7 w/ a 6 series chipset?
That may be the most professional method, but the simple Hex Editor method, which can be done within a few minutes without flooding the SSDs with data, seems to work too. For details regarding the procedure you may look into post No 73 of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by AthlonX2
In that case I won't have to wait till this weekend. I just tried it on a non-raid SSD Win7 sytem so I can see what it all looks like in WinHex as far as before and after with TRIM working.
So, I can test my P67-UD4-B3 tonight as well now.
Hope you guys get some good news but its likely it won't be working per Fernando's findings Intel's statements. Hopefully one of the supra genius' on this forum can come up with a mod that will enable it. :up::yepp:
Great and fascinating thread that i've been following since the first post.
Very good job done by Fernando, Andres Sergio, Btester, Chispy, Medeirosdez, B. Gates and others.
I'm certain that unless these people had not made many tests to check and stirred the subject up on this and other forums, we wouldn't have had an Intel statement about this (not clear at all, but even though an official word).
Thanks to all these people and in particular to Fernando, who had to face disbelief and asinine comments on [H]… forum as response to his knowledge, hard work and solid facts.
You are 100% correct. As someone with inside knowledge I can ASSURE you that Intel's statement is a DIRECT result of this thread and would not have been made yet if this thread didn't exist.Quote:
I'm certain that unless these people had not made many tests to check and stirred the subject up on this and other forums, we wouldn't have had an Intel statement about this (not clear at all, but even though an official word).
After having "downgraded" the Intel RAID ROM module of my P8Z77-V mainboard BIOS to v11.2.0.1527 I have repeated the Win Hex test to verify, if Trim is still working within the RAID0 without using any v11.5 driver and OROM.
Here is the result with my Z77 RAID system:
Trim works on Win7 even with the combination Intel RST driver v11.2.0.1006 with Intel RAID ROM v11.2.0.1527.
That means, that the installation of the RSTe drivers v11.5 containing the additional SCSI filter driver iaStorF and the related RAID OROM v11.5 is not needed to get Trim support.
I think, that this is good news for users with an Intel Z77 system, because many of them reported about problems with the Intel RST(e) RAID drivers of the v11.5 series.
As next step I will repeat the test while running Windows 8.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dazog
So we need to OROM hack or driver hack to have Z68 support? WOW, pretty bad of intel to do this.
One of the popular tech/review sites needs to offer up a bounty (free ssd maybe) to whomever can pull it off first...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
Yes and watch their Intel samples stop showing up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaxx
Ouch...that would suck. I imagine there will be lots of appropriately skilled folks looking into it at least. With any luck it won't be a physical controller limitation of some sort.
It's not a physical limitation.
Test result with Windows 8 RTM running the Intel RST driver v11.2.0.1006 and Intel RAID ROM v11.2.0.1527: Trim is active within the RAID0!
With this combination I got the best benchmark results I have ever seen under Win8. Interested visitors can see the related benchmark results within >this< post.
WinHex test result on P67-UD4-B3 running on Win7 with OROM 11.5.0.1111 and RST driver 11.5.2.1001:
TRIM NOT ACTIVE within RAID0 :(
I'll try OROM 11.5.0.1582 next.
msdn released a free trial rtm for 90 days r u using that fernando ? cauz the release preview sucked bad full of locks and freezesQuote:
Originally Posted by Fernando
Yes, I have downloaded the Evaluation version of Windows 8 x64 Enterprise from Microsoft and done a fresh install.Quote:
Originally Posted by andressergio
I confirm that TRIM works on Z77 with 11.2 RST drivers and raid rom 11.0.0.1339 . Win7 is the OS .
I did the winhex test and after deleting the file i saw the magic zeros ! :D
Board is Asus maximus V formula with latest 804 bios
Good deal...there's still hope then. :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kain665
was just looking at asus z77 boards...tempting...but i think i'll wait till there is some sort of ivy 'e' board out, unless a 'magic' orom shows up, or intel pities us non 7 series consumers...lol, yeah, right!
Just installed a new MSI Z77A-GD65 I plan on using for reviews It has 11.0.0.1339 OROM on it so It should TRIM Im going to fill test it and see
If you are right, I suspect the reason why Intel would have prefered to remain silent:Quote:
Originally Posted by B GatesYou are 100% correct. As someone with inside knowledge I can ASSURE you that Intel's statement is a DIRECT result of this thread and would not have been made yet if this thread didn't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by squawker
They are afraid to get more criticism than acclamation for this new Intel RAID driver/OROM feature, because only users with a Z77 chipset mainboard get benefit of it. That is very bad news especially for users, who recently bought a very expensive X79 system for professional RAID usage and expected the best possible RAID support by Intel.
I believe, that the development of the X79 chipset and maybe even of the "Enterprise Edition" RST drivers was a big mistake. Windows 8 doesn't need and doesn't even use the SCSI filter driver iaStorF.sys.
Hi Bill,Quote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
I've been observing what seems to me to be 'trim' enabled behaviour with 11.0.0.1337 and an 11.x driver for some time. I'll be very interested in what your testing shows:)
Regds, JR
Just ran a quick fill test
TRIM confirmed working with OROM 11.0.0.1339 and 11.2.0.1006 driver
specs:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...20trim/085.png
clean:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...20trim/080.png
25% full:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...20trim/081.png
50% full:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...20trim/082.png
75% full:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...20trim/083.png
deleted data and run within 30 seconds of doing so:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...20trim/084.png
I'm not sure I waited long enough for the drives to recover from being TRIMMED but performance is clearly restored enough to show TRIM is functioning. I short stroked the volume so I wouldn't have to fill it so much so it wouldn't take so long.
Bill,
What type of controller in the SSDs you are using above?
Cheers, JR
p.s. Bill if you disable trim what result do you get?
SandForce
here is a balls out Vantage run with (2) 120GB 520's
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...liar/080-3.png
NON-TRIM setup
Hi Bill,
Ummm...
.... I think you should try the same test cycle with trim disabled. I feel that we need to exclude the possibility that the recovery you are seeing is a direct function of the sandforce controllers and not a result of trim activity.
Cheers, JR
already haveQuote:
Hi Bill,
Ummm...
.... I think you should try the same test cycle with trim disabled. I feel that we need to exclude the possibility that the recovery you are seeing is a direct function of the sandforce controllers and not a result of trim activity.
Cheers, JR
this is non trim enabled same drives different firmware (faster non-trim enabled firmware) and different stripes
clean:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...ontrim/080.png
25% full
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...ontrim/081.png
50% full
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...ontrim/082.png
75% full
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...ontrim/083.png
data deleted
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...ontrim/084.png
6 hours of garbage collection
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...tion6hours.png
compare data deleted to clean. recovery is very minimal because there is no trim. if there were trim it would have recovered to at least 150,000 and not be stuck in the 90,000's. then look at garbage collection incase you think sf drives have garbage collection they do not
Hi Bill,
Forgive me - I'm not up to speed with the Intel SF fw versions. What happens if you use the trim enabled firmware with trim disabled in Windows?
Regds, JR
Stasio modded a BIOS for my MSI Z77A-GD65 that has Intel RAID ROM v11.2.0.1527 in it going to compare performance to 11.0.0.1339 tonight when I re-do my rig again.
Without testing I am pretty sure TRIM will not function.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR.
one thing that is very noticable is that while the non-TRIM array scores like a mother clean 162,000 performance drops off further and faster as the drive is filled than the TRIM enabled array that only scores 135,000 clean. These are the same drives. The faster 162,000 performance was with 5.02 firmware that does not have functioning TRIM and the 135,000 performance was run on the same drives but using still unavailable to you guys 5.03 firmware that restores TRIM to the drive
i only use about max 25 out of 450gb on my array. i guess trim would not be a must have in this case...
Vertex 4 has great GC so its not really a must have in your case
TRIM disabled in Windows means TRIM isn't going to work. What kind of a question was that???
I was under the impression that Intel's i400 fw had functioning trim...:hm:
Even tho I'm not running a X79, I 100% agree with your reasoning. I'd make a nice touch for the X68 as well...:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Fernando
it does what makes you think it doesnt?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaxx
Never mind...I misread a post. Doh...:coffee:
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Highendtoys
Yes on the face of it, it does sound dumb. I just wanted to make sure that the SF controllers were not working independently of windows trim functionality.
Regds, JR
p.s. I am now a believer :) Yay :up:
I agree Bill, but I cant imagine how the GC can be so agressive unless it has knowledge of 'invalid' data, Regds, JRQuote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
@ all, who are interested:
frsoft from station-drivers gave me >this< link to an actual version of Intel's officially released RST package v11.5.0.1207 containing a PDF file named "OEM Technical Guide 11.5.rev0.82.pdf". This is what I found on top of page 102:
If you want to see a picture with the original text, you may look >here<.Quote:
Originally Posted by Intel
Since there is no thank you button I want to thank you with words. Thank You Fernando!
If Intel is reading this thread, please extend raid0 TRIM to your X series chipsets...namely the high-end X79 and enthusiast X68.
That being said, I hope the current drivers are receptive to some creative modding/hacking. :eh:
ummm...don't forget P67 too!
These drivers work really well on X79. No one should be using the C600 RSTe drivers they suck balls.
The 1207's? No problems with storage drives/using them? What oRom are you using? Thx.Quote:
Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega
Is there any ETA for 5.03 or 5.04 ?Quote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
11.5.2.1001 on X79. Highest scores I've gotten with my M3Pro. X79 RST are horrid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Peakr
It depends on the drive mfg. Some are ready to launch 5.03 any day and some are waiting for 5.04 before launching.Quote:
Originally Posted by kensiko
the 11.0.0 give me the highest results, the 11.5 are just as awful as the rstE driversQuote:
Originally Posted by Callsign_Vega
Have you tried 11.2? Ive been wondering if 11.2 is the best performing driver or if its 11.0.0.Quote:
Originally Posted by m.oreilly
@ B.Gates, m.oreilly and Callsign_Vega:
When you installed the RST v11.x.x.xxxx drivers, did you take the original or a modded version?
How did you get the v11.x.x.xxxx drivers installed (manually from within the Device Manager or by running the installer)?
If you have a RAID array, did you test, if Trim is active within the array?
I went from 10.8 a while back up to 11.2 and got a 4k write improvement...haven't budged since. :stick:Quote:
Originally Posted by B Gates
I tried original 11.0.0.1339 OROM with 11.2.0.1006 running installer and tested TRIM found it to be working. Now I'm running 11.2.0.1527 OROM modded BIOS and 11.2.0.1006 driver installed by installer. I have not tested RAID 0 TRIM with this configuration yet. I'm assuming it will work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fernando
@ B.Gates:
Thanks for the reply.
When I posted my questions, I thought, you you have an X79 system like m.oreilly and Callsign_Vega, but now I have realized, that you have a Z77 one - my bad.