Core i7 = Ripoff.
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Core i7 = Ripoff.
so was yorkfield when its was released. so was kentsfield/conroe/A64 etc...Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
i bet you'll say the exact same thing about westmere. :rofl:
So true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Let's think about for a minute, when I bought my E6600 back in August 2006 it was the same thing as it is today, people complaining about the CPU, memory and motherboard prices and so on.
The E6600 that I bought has a good overclocking potential fact was that I achieved a maximum of 3.9Ghz 1.8 Vcore however far from the system being stable, at 3.4Ghz 1.50 Vcore was rock solid stable and still as of today nothing changed.
Francois said something very important about the High-K being the reason behind Penryn overclocking potential being so good as Nehalem has the same thing on it, most of users here in XS are aware of it but could be a good reading High-K
Now thinking about my case where I could get a I7 920 and with a good motherboard and cooling I could achieve an overclocking potential of 4.0Ghz stable. This is just amazing + 6 cores more than my old E6600.
I7 920 at 4.0Ghz is more or less a Q9450 at 4.7Ghz.
On a sidenote: I'm still waiting for the retail processors as the overclocking potential needs to be confirmed.
The 920 is cheaper than the lowest C2Q when it was released. 6GB of DDR3 is cheaper than 6GB of DDR2 when that C2Q was released. And the MoBo's are about the same if not cheaper.....
I just dont see the complaints. The prices are decent IMO.
i was referencing the well written tech report article.... http://techreport.com/articles.x/15818
granted Intel did a better job than AMD, but in some aspects it looks very familiar? (on-board memory controller, QPI)
and people need to chill out.. im not trying to start an argument, i was just pointing it out.
Uh, no. Even if Agena was running at the same speed as Kentsfield, it would still under-perform using Crossfire/SLI.Quote:
Originally Posted by informal
Flawed comparison, if you are going to compare mobo prices at least use ones with a similar feature set, not a top end mobo against a budget mobo. A high end 790FX mobo costs over $200 and good X48 mobos are $250+, and neither offer the flexibility of combined CF/SLI support, if you talk high end SLI mobos you're looking at $300+ anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by gOJDO
Also, comparing a Q6600/9950BE to an i920 is silly, as they are in totally different price brackets and performance classes. The i920 performs as well or better than the previous flagship QX9770 in most MT apps and yet you find it fit to compare it to low end quads?
Geez, why not just say people shouldn't get an E8500 because we have $50 X2s and Celerons?
He he - good one! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Epsilon84
the graph under the 4870x2 crossfire shows scaling with gtx260 in sliQuote:
Originally Posted by villa1n
even worse then 4870/4870x2 scaling with nehalem
strange only 3-way sli is much faster
well, AMD did copy the design of the 80386SX ... humm hummmm :yepp: :rofl: :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
"In 1988, Intel introduced the i386SX, a version of the 386, designed to enable low-cost systems software-compatible with the 386.
Cost was reduced by narrowing the external data bus to 16 bits from the internal 32, which in some designs can halve the number of RAM chips, and eliminating economically unusable pins such as those address lines required to support over 16 MB of RAM (too expensive for the low-cost systems this processor targeted).
Performance suffered both due to the narrower external databus, and the typical lack of cache memory in i386sx systems.
The original i386 was subsequently renamed i386DX to avoid confusion, though this would rather cause confusion later when the DX in the name i486DX instead indicated floating-point capability. The i387SX was a compatible i387 part (i.e. with a 16-bit databus) available as an optional math-coprocessor. The 386SX was packaged in a surface-mount QFP, and rarely offered in a socket to allow for an upgrade.
A similar cost reduction was done for the 8088 CPU used in the original PC.
"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80386SX
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...rch.png/800px-
[QUOTE=Bellisimo;3405584]
You shouldn't cut your self so short.Quote:
Great minds think alike? ;)
Don't worry about it, it is not worth derailing the thread.
Jack
It is an interesting argument to have though -- so long as it is civil and not personal. People get too emotionally attached to a chunk of silicon.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbone8ty
AMD did a phenomenal job searching for ways to compete with Intel, they needed two things to become really competitive -- a product that stood out against Intel's (performance) and cost structures to make profits to reinvest.
AMD was very smart, going for server first -- ultimately the evolution to K8 was geared straight for server. They did it by not only opening up the BW bottlneck, but because the memory controller was on-die, they could down scale cache without suffering performance loss -- smaller die on a node - 1 behind Intel -- great for costs.
Moving the memory controller on die solved many problems for AMD, it gave them an enormous performance boost while maintaining a competitive die size -- consequently, they could go toe to toe with Intel in server and win -- and they did, big ... gaining massive credibility and profitability over the 2-3 years they held that lead.
For AMD, moving to an on die memory controller was not only innovative for the x86 server, but necessary to become recognized as a major competitor and gain credibility in the commercial sector.
AMD did not invent the on die memory controller concept -- nor did they invent a high speed serial point to point interconnect -- nor did they implement a novel NUMA type architecture... what they did do was take these concepts, constructed a brilliant design, and wiped up.
My opinion anyway.
A little unfair comparison, in that you must know thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Drwho?
I only know this, because it was the first computer i had. ;) Hard to say copying is the same thing as being licensed to clone...Quote:
In 1991, AMD released its 386 processor. Like its predecessors, this model was identical to the Intel versions. AMD was licensed to produce clones of Intel products, right down to the microcode (the CPU’s firmware). This processor had two notable features. First, it was faster than the Intel model—40 MHz compared to a top speed of 33 MHz at Intel—and it was the first to sport the Windows Compatible logo on the package.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ry,2008-3.html
:) License to clone means they were allowed to copy ... basically it was even more than that, Intel simply handed AMD the blue prints.Quote:
Originally Posted by villa1n
Frankly, while AMD had good arguments legally I will not argue against it, the best thing that happened to them was having the ability to simply copy taken away post 486 ... without that AMD become an innovator instead of a copy machine.
Retail Core i7-920 + MSI Eclipse
(Source: Coolaler)Quote:
more pics & screens @ coolaler.com
Nice! And a sweet 200Mhz BCLK!
@ Francois..
what do you tell us?!
on this screen Coolaler use a higher memory multiplier than possible (i thought they were locked @ 1:3 (DDR3-800) @ 1:4 (DDR3-1066)?)
http://www.abload.de/img/2073q4.gif
wanna bet its an ES?
or probably some bios tricks by msi
You are really in a bad mood aint you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellisimo
@ Bellisimo
920/940 ES have locked memory multipliers (only 1:3 & 1:4)!
And i donīt think that MSI can do much on locked multipliers ;)
Now thats what i like to sEE!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri$ch
http://www.coolaler.com.tw/coolalerc..._I7_Q920/6.gif
Looks like it gets hot, and this is only at stock speed, at 4.0ghz looks like we re gonna need some heavy cooling. Do you think 24/7 air is feasible?
Although i noticed his voltage is at 1.5ish.. on cpuz... so maybe he forgot to turn down the volts in bios, and quickly just turned down the qpi back to 133mhz.. ? :P
look @ the core voltage... 1.58v and this on air ;)
Look at the core voltage though. Doesn't matter if it's on stock clocks or not if the voltage is that high.
wow 21k writes on memory.
P.S.francois said the retail 920 -940 got unlocked memory multipler
no, he said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghigo
Quote:
no, you can only down clock, but if you increase the bclk, you ll get better OC by downclocking the mem ratio.
I tested stability with an i7 920 under Noctua :
http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/d...0000078330.png
and screen to 4200mhz
http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/d...0000078326.png
Now i m testing Retail 965xe under aircooling
http://www.pt1t.eu/public/X58/Core_i7_965_xe.jpg
http://www.pt1t.eu/public/X58/R2E/Wprime-32M-4200.PNG
http://www.pt1t.eu/public/X58/R2E/R2...k6_27K_air.png
@ Pt1t
can you test max stable BCLK (with lower multiplier)? :)
Thanks
Chris
202mhz on X12 and 920 on air.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri$ch
QPI/VTT to 1.45v
IOH to 1.35v
with watercooling i think we can see 920 @ 4ghz stable (Without turbo boost activated)
ok, that is enough for me :D
btw Coolaler told me that the biggest memory multiplier is 1:7 on retail Core i7-920(940) :)
lol dude you better read the rules of this board, or i perdcit you go on vacation soon....Quote:
Originally Posted by Bellisimo
anyway... anyone else has the feeling that the 965 is waste of money this time for all none extreme ocers that use cascade or LN2?
If most of the boards can hit 200mhz bclk you get -> 4,0ghz and i think that you need super highend aircooling for that anyways or watter.
on GA EX58 extreme and Asus R2E i can get max X6 and X8 ram ratio on 920.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri$ch
I will test on eclipse as soon i can get it.
x6 & x8 = 1:3 and 1:4?
do you have retail i7-920? ES are locked!
Does anyone know if we're going to see some cheaper boards before X-mas? Plan on upgrading but spending over €250 for a motherboard seems a bit to much :|
no , only ES 920Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri$ch
then is 1:4 the highest divider / multi ;)
offc, hamilton became WorldChamp in F1 :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Btw,the discussion about the FSB vs QPI hasnt been proven yet
i dont say i am right, frankly i dont know, but i havent seen any data contradicting with what i have said
Does anyone know max temperature?
Or max voltage for the CPU yet?
x264 Penryn vs. Nehalem clock-to-clock comparison:
http://i38.tinypic.com/161nvdh.png
Overall speed improvement around 40%
TjMax can be read from each Core i7 processor but when Core Temp 0.99.3 was originally released, I don't know if Intel had released that information yet. If you want to double check you can try using RealTemp 2.83 which I know reads that new information. Don't copy the new .exe into your old directory or it will use your previous TjMax values from your INI file.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caveman787
From early testing it seems that the Core i7 has more real world temperature head room available. The previous Core 2 Duo based Quads tended to lose Prime stability when well overclocked at about 70C. I've already seen screen shots of Core i7 running Prime stable at 80C and 90C like Pt1t is running in his screen shot above.
If your Core 2 Duo was running Prime stable, temperature was never an issue and it appears for Core i7, it is even less of an issue. By all means, the cooler the better but if Intel didn't think these could run reliably at 100C then they would lower the TjMax and start thermal throttling 10C or 20C sooner to prevent this.
My only concern from the screen shots so far is excessive voltage. We won't know how much is too much until more retail processors start getting used and the "my processor degraded" reports start coming in.
Edit: Thanks to coolaler for showing us what Core i7 thermal throttling looks like.
http://img377.imageshack.us/img377/2276/toohotjc7.png
http://forum.coolaler.com/showpost.p...8&postcount=12
RealTemp will log any thermal throttling episodes and it looks like core0 at 98C and core1 at 100C both hit the throttle. You definitely want to keep it below this level or else your multi will start to cycle down to 12.0 which will kill performance. Core2 and core3 both hit 93C which is still OK. No throttling has occurred on these two cores.
Good news is that it didn't crash. :up:
Now that is some nice voltage for 3.8ghz. Decent temps too, what cfm fam did you have on the noctua? Looks like air is ample for these chips :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Pt1t
Retail Core i7-920/940 and 965 XE
more pics @ XFastestQuote:
it was (on air) all full stable? Or only CPU-Z? What is max OC for work, gaming etc? 3.8Ghz?
:rofl: you actually cared to read or look at the screen?Quote:
Originally Posted by FlanK3r
he was running air -> Noctua cooler.
He ran a 920 @ 3,8 ghz with 1.294V primestable for 1:20h...
No one bothers to read anymore, they just want to see numbers or headlines like "Nehalem can't overclock." :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Same thing with previous extreme edition CPU's imo...Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
They (high/unlocked multi) were not needed to push the CPU's to their max on air/water.
This fan : http://www.matbe.com/images/biblio/a...0000078285.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by villa1n
na there was quite a big difference between a Q9550 and a QX9650.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonucci
Q9550 only have a 8,5 multi -> for 4ghz you need a fsb of 470mhz, and not many P35/X38 did that with a quad. ;)
Upon further thought you are right... Dunno what I was thinking :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
a bit off topic but whats the measurement of motherboard mounting holes up to skt 775 are they wider apart if so by how much...thanks
heh, nice, big cooler...
Can the QPI match a extreme edition on the i920???
doesn't really matter, QPI of 4,8GT/s is more then enough to supply the X58.Quote:
Originally Posted by GAR
Just wondering tho, for numbers sake heheQuote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Supposedly 80mmQuote:
Originally Posted by GLENBOY
@920 OC: Nice overclock, good to know that the non-XE can be OC'd as well. Isn't the +80c load temps going to be reducing possible CPU lifetime considering the TJMax is only 100c? :shrug:
Saw this on Bit-tech. They say they hit 4GHz on the 920 with only ~20 minutes or so of playing with BIOS. Looking good! :up:
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/200...-core-i7-920/1
cheers metric does anybody know if the mounting adaptors are available yet for the dtek fusion for i7 core
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metric
i can confirm personally that 200 qpi and 4ghz is easy on any of the processors, even with stock cooling.
4ghz with stock cooling... judging by the fact a noctua, with their magic fan, are holding temps at 85-90 C... i dont see how stock cooling can keep it under 100...? unless that was an abnormally hot chip at 1.3 volts?Quote:
Originally Posted by revogamer
Yeah, I would think that 4GHz on stock cooling would be if you're lucky. I would think around 3.6 would probably be an average # to shoot for.
god damit... i have to resist... right now i could buy a 920, GB EX58-Extreme and 12gb ddr3... but its all overpriced like hell.... need to resist for another 2 weeks till prices settle. :slap:
These chips seem to run quite hotter than Penryn, although requiring a bit less voltage at the same clock. There are some retail chip results posted about, and they seem to run hot as well. Maybe it's just early silicon steppings, or if the aftermarket coolers don't quite fit with the adapter kits, or need to be redesigned, or if it just runs hotter.
Mmm..no.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeedMoMegaHurtZ
http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets...spx?i=3453&p=3
In the USA I7 920 is already in stock in some shops like Tankguys for $329 and Asus P6T for $319 , here in the UK Asus P6T is also in stock for Ģ249 a bit over than expected but not that far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
12GB:eek:
Make that 2 months :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
He probably meant to say black market :D, 2 weeks for most of the shops to get it stocked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jor3lBR
actually they should be available ~17th. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jor3lBR
biggest e-retailer in austria gets the cpus at this date. :D
I think the i7 965 will be the latest that is going to be available. :yepp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
From tank guys.... this is good news, a hard 'launch' ...Quote:
Processors are in stock, but will not ship until the official Intel embargo release date of November 17th.
I put it in single quotes because Intel 'launched' weirdly this round. The lifted the review/press NDA's two weeks before actual product launch to the retail stores.
I have a specific idea in my head of what a paper launch is ... if they 'launch' and you can buy it with in two-three weeks, i consider it a non-paper hard launch ... it is reasonable to give the distribution channels time to move around stock, for example. But if it is hard to find stock within 5-6 weeks of 'launch' then it was certainly paper launched in my book.
I say weirdly this round because I think there is a bit of cat and mouse going on here ... the rumor mill is filled with Shanghai coming around Nov 13/14/15th area (mid nov), and if Nov 17 is the actual time they launched, they (being Intel) risked not getting the first headlines.... so what the hey, lift the veil 2 weeks before for the official launch and fill forums up with 'Nehalem Review' threads :) --- cat and mouse, cat and mouse.
Jack
Air or phase? And does the EVGA OC utility really mirror CPU-Z?Quote:
Originally Posted by jAkUp
Air, and the OC utility is similar to CPU-Z, with a few more functions.
Thanks! :clap::clap:Quote:
Originally Posted by jAkUp
Man isn't that the truth. Maybe that place will STHU now, and hopefully peiople will stop posting that trash in the news section. It was littering the place up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
...and THAT puts an exclamation point on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jAkUp
Now, where do I buy this stuff? I want a 3-350 price range on the EVGA board or a 400 dollar price range on the RIIE. I'll pay a grand for the Extreme 7, and 3-500 on 6GB (3 sticks) of the best RAM I can get ahold of. If anyone wants to sell NIB Retail versuions of these items I'm ready to buy right now, please contact me via PM. I'm not a dreamer, and have money waiting to buy this.
That's nice. But it doesn't explain the trend of observed higher temperatures. Have a look at the Core i7 overclocking thread in the Intel section and a few of the threads in the extreme section. Have a look at the dozens of reviews on Core i7 motherboards on several sites - it's not 1 or 2 results, it's most of them. These chips run slightly hotter by a few degrees - just an observation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
They seem to idle around 50-55, Priming around 75-85 @ 3.6-3.8 is bit hotter than penryns. I don't know if the sensors are misreading, if coretemp/real temp is misreading, if heatsinks aren't fitted properly, if it's early silicon (but there are a few retail chips posted) or what?
Still waiting for next generation chipset;
1. Intel X68 support Westmere CPU 6 cores, PCIe x16 ver 3.0 for next generation GPU
2. Better mainboard design and more easy for OC
3. Lower DDR3 prices and widely available
4. Westmere CPU 32nm more cooler and higher OC
My target is Q4 2009 or Q1 2010, for now i'm still with my Q6600@3.6 Ghz G0
very nice! What temps are you getting with that? and what cooler if your on air? *granting that at that voltage, it is most likely just bench stable.*Quote:
Originally Posted by jAkUp
CPU & Mainboard arrived today, but i have no memory to test it :(
http://www.abload.de/img/018aja.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/02n5lf.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/0327cf.jpg
ok, i got a memory stick to test my retail i7-920 and wow...
it have unlocked memory & qpi multipliers :shocked:
http://www.abload.de/img/cpu-zhfpq.png
http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=443730
http://www.abload.de/img/p1000531kfnf.jpg
http://www.abload.de/img/p1000534ld9t.jpg
^^ nice. More..uncertain info nailed in the ground :)
Now, you got your answer!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chri$ch
Overclocking seems to be pretty similar to AMD now, with raising the bus speed and keeping the HT / QPI in some stable boundary.
hmm week 36. :D
how do u guys get this stuff early?
pretty exciting.... cpu PrOn.
Gotta go shoppin now :D
They're authorized leakers - inside connections. When the retail hits, we will get see how close the real boards are to the leaked boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by breathemetal
LOL no...Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_case
Alot of retail stores sells before the date. Distributors also got the stuff in advance. Some are waiting on the release date. Some just sell if they can.
You can buy i7 now here aswell in some stores. One store I checked had 100 920, 10 940 and 2 965.
And another one 25 965, 471 920 and 196 940.
Must be alot of insiders eh?
Cant wait till the 17th
yep, here in new zealand theres stock, ive got a i965, i940, i920, intel and p6t boards to test.
- just waiting on TRUE brackets coming next week..
The 6X on the memory multiplier is nice to know, and if I follow the logic ... the doubled frequency has been accounted for in the Gigabyte BIOS, i.e. DDR3-1333 would be 10x with a BCLK of 133. Meaning that for a 4G target OC with a BCLK of 200 MHz for a i7 920 one could get memory to fit within this range with known stability, 6x200 1200 so DDR3-1333 would be fine or you would have some room to OC memory with a multi of 8 or you could use DDR2-1600 and work from there fine as well.
Thanks for the screens...
Quote:
Originally Posted by breathemetal
What stores are those that have them in stock, that you're referring to above?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
DP please delete
I hope you are right. That would be amazing :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by revogamer
Prcdata and komplett.Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_case
Thanks! That's UK and Germany (?), resp.?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
In the states, ZipZoomFly has the P6T, but I haven't seen a US retailer that has the cpus yet. Point me at it if you know.
My location says Denmark..so take a wild guess :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by cool_case
Shg should have them next week aswell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Well, good for you guys for getting them early. We're still out in the cold. Take pity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shintai
Wow. This might be the cpu to get. Incredible!Quote:
Originally Posted by jAkUp
Think microcenter has them on sale early? I'm tempted to drive there and check.
I got our shipment earlier this week. *officially* new orders won't ship until the 17th. That's the *official* word ;)
Wanna give us a discount?