It's sad that I went to page 20 because that means I remembered the page with the 4870 GTX280 comparison meaning I have no life.
EDIT : Umm I think the Googlenglish is better as there is more text. Maybe not all of it is translated yet.
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It's sad that I went to page 20 because that means I remembered the page with the 4870 GTX280 comparison meaning I have no life.
EDIT : Umm I think the Googlenglish is better as there is more text. Maybe not all of it is translated yet.
hey did the review say what cpu setup he was using? I couldn't find it any where in the review, and knowing my platform, that can make a huge difference between the 4850 and 4870 for me
He was using a QX9650 @ 4Ghz on a Maximus extreme i think. It's stated in page 3-5 or something. Anyway, this is the best part:
:DQuote:
Besides, we have benchmarked two or three HD 4800 in CrossFireX, and the the review is coming soon.
I just want 4870 CF results. Can I have them yet?
lol
damn that means my results won't be anything like his (well probably close, I'll lose at best probably 10 fps if I oc my setup a bit more).Quote:
Originally Posted by AriciU
CrossfireX sounds like its going to be amazing, just wait for the drivers to improve
Hmm, according to the INQ scores on the 4850 (no reason not to believe)
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquir...-points-3dmark
HD4850 @ 700/1188 (CCC Limit OC, CPU Unknown)
Performance: 7944
Extreme: 3189
HD4870 @ 750/900 (QX @ 4.0GHz from Expreview scores)
Performance: 9075
Extreme: 3671
So compared to a 4870 with a 7% increase in CORE(750MHz) and a 34% increase in Memory(3.6GHz), there is a 13% increase in Vantage scores in Performance and Extreme Mode. My prediction is that the price of the 4870 is going to go up because this card is beating the GTX 260 for $100 MSRP Less....and you also have the short supply of DDR5.
Time to buy a 4850 and go vmod crazy :) . Rivatuner / ATITool are bound to be updated soon to get past the CCC limit
Yeah I imagine they will increase by a fair bit. Hopefully the masses blew their cash on a 8800GT and can't afford to upgrade now. I remember how RETARDED the 8800GT prices got to. $500 was the highest in Aus. They launched at $330.
HD 48xx crossfire rocks....Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
and, English review out, Engoy:up:
http://en.expreview.com/2008/06/24/f...0-and-hd-4850/
cookerjc is there any utility to flash HD48xx BIOS? You could test the MSI BIOS to see what PowerPlay can really do, seems buggy as hell.
Please do, 160MHz core is a pretty big drop from 500MHz :)
Thanks for the early review cookerjc as always! :D
Nice review cookerjc, thanks a heap:)
Thank you very much, cookerjc! :up: :up: :up: :cool:
Yep, great review. Especially the percentage graphs at the end are what are really useful to look at. So HD4870 is like 20 ~ 35% (~27% in average) faster than HD4850, nice. Also it beats GTX 260 most of the time and comes slightly behind in other benchmarks. Except for the power consumption and crappy stock coolers these cards really are something price/performance wise. But would be nice to see how far they really overclock too. Looks like HD4870 PCB differs quite a lot from HD4850 and seems to favor overclockers. It doesn't seem like the 512MB vram is any huge issue for these cards really, most of the time 1GB would probably make no remarkable difference.
now some AIB manufacturers should release a 1gb card with 3rd party cooler -> I take 2 please. :p
Any 4870 Xfire scores yet ?
I want to see Anand get this and the Plus cards from both sides.
Perkam
Results are impressive. Too bad the power consumption is outrageous and the reviewers claim that it is noisy :(
OMG..:eek: 4870.. now.. or two..:slobber:
1 more day right?
Noisy :S NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOO :mad:
The age of noisy vga's shoulnd't have ended ? :shrug:
The card is not in true 2D clocks at idle.Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
If you haven't tried out a real flagship ATI card since the 2900XT, you are welcome to toture one of the straight-out high-end PWMs and luxurious board designs. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD
(I had a lot of fun with mine.)
Damn, Aussies must get it up the rear, I constantly see you guys complaining about prices. I got my 8800GT on launch day for $220 USD, why is pc hardware so expensive there?Quote:
Originally Posted by MomijiTMO
Okay. Very impressive. 4870 meets or beats the GTX260 at pretty much every turn. For either $50 or $100 less MSRP depending on whether or not you can live with only 512MB. Uses a bit more power though both at idle and at load. And it could fry eggs with that feeble stock cooler on it. Should be on water. Actually the price difference isn't all that much. I think Nvidia can just offer some $50 rebates and price performance wiill be about the same. Based on Nvidia's recent pricing actions I would expect Nvidia to just lower their prices to compete. The GTX260 power advantage especially at idle would be important to me. The real question in this close race is which has more overclocking headroom. We have already seen that the 260 can easily clock up to 280 clock speeds without voltmodding, but we will have to wait a bit to see 4870 overclocking results. It should clock even higher since it is 55nm but we will have to wait and see. Is it true that there is no aftermarket OCing utility for AMD? The 4870 does appear to be shorter than the 260 though. That could be a big advantage to some people with small cases. The bottom line is if AMD can figure out a way to get rid of microstuttering and CF driver compatibility issues I will be all over the 4870x2 in late August. It looks like it's going to be a GTX265 GX2 but 6-12 months early and on a single card and maybe with some/all of the multi-GPU issues solved. Although I am certainly not an AMD fanboy, I have to admit that AMD is the one opening the can of whoopass this summer. The underdog is sinking its teeth deep and taking a big bite. This is shaping up to be a very interesting summer for PC hardware.
In Call of Duty 4 the 4870 is faster than GTX 280 until 4xAA is applied at high res, damn impressive for a card that cost less than half.
i am SOOOO happy right now :D :D :D
i have been firmly in the red since my 7950 gx2 crapped out on me (yeah thats right, i had a 2900xt 1gb gddr4 :P ) and now its incredible to see nvidia floundering as it is. I am pleased with myself for saving my somolians for the xfire 4870's, its gonna be a good summer/winter until nehalem.
@gjirasan: The GTX260 does not have a power consumption advantage once ATI gets its act together on these cards. The 4850 and 4870 are supposed to run at 160MHz when idling, not the 500MHz that the cards reviewed so far do and this will mean a lot lower power consumption on these cards when idling.
About that so called "GTX265GX2", I don't think we will have anything from NVIDIA like that, not until they move to 45/40 nm. R700 will use 2 RV770 chips clocked at 625MHz. according to rumors so that should mean that power draw is about equal to a 9800GX2, maybe a tad higher.
BUT DAMN these cards rock for price performance man, it's just sick....
Have a look at pricing over here,
HD4000 series:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/7...&orderSort=asc
Cheapest 4850 is €145 and cheapest 4870 is €242, although there was a 4870 for €221 earlier today but that has disappeared.
9800GTX:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/7...&orderSort=asc
Cheapest 9800GTX is €199
GTX200 series:
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/cat/7...&orderSort=asc
Cheapest GTX260 is €327 and cheapest €280 is 489.
So that means that ATI is completely dominating the market over here....at least in the €140-€400 price range.
Looks very promising.
Still waiting for 4870x2 though :D
Pure speculation. The HD4870 is using more power under load than the GTX260. Will that be fixed by drivers too? If AMD can go multi-GPU on a single card and succesfully cool the beast on 55nm then Nvidia sure as hell can too when it shrinks to 55nm. In fact Nvidia may have an easier time of it since they will probably use a dual PCB solution which takes up more space but also allows for two coolers instead of just one. Nvidia is not run by a bunch of idiots. That is for sure. You think they are just going to stand by and watch AMD take the lead? Sorry it's just not going to happen. At least not for long. 6-12 months tops before Nvidia bites back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
So what if the 4870 uses a little more power at load than GTX 260? It's $100 cheaper ffs!
It hasn't come out yet, how can you say it IS cheaper?Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit93
GTX260 ACTUAL prices could drop to equal SUPPOSED HD4870 prices, or are they glued with locktite? :rolleyes:
Oh I don't doubt that NVVIDIA will bite back and I sure hope they will. I just said that we won't see some sort of GX2 version of their card until they move to a 45/40 nm. production process. That's all. Oh and NVIDIA still has the performance crown actually and their Tri-SLI probably will for the next 9-12 months, it's just that you will be paying through your nose for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by gojirasan
NVIDIA will probably move to 55 nm. on their GTX200 series as soon as they possibly can and this will probably make it possible for them to make the GTX260 compete in both price and performance again, so I think they will be competitive within 6 months. So I agree with you on that one. It's just that a 4870 will probably be the best card to get for the coming 6 months or more and so is the 4850.
GTX260 prices can drop yeah, but that will cut margins considerably. NVIDIA will basically have to sell them without much of a profit at all if it wants to sell them at the same price as a 4870. That is the case until a GTX260 on 55nm comes along. Oh BTW, those are just guesses, I have no idea what it actually costs for NVIDIA to make these cards, I'm just speculating on some educated guesses by other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Luka_Aveiro
Ever heard of GPU refresh timeline :p:.It just happens to be 6/12 months until we usually see a die shrink/new arch. from both companies.So you basically said nothing new.Following your logic,AMD will respin the RV770 and get much better chips from following revisions,thus keeping the lead over all NV products with faster/lower TDP Radeon 4850/70 and 4870X2s :rolleyes: .And remember ,once you crank eye candy in newer/yet to come games,you'll see RV770 based cards leap ahead(TM).Quote:
Originally Posted by gojirasan
XS is our watch word, so find a better aftermat cooler or watercool the damn card. Noise problem solved:p: All we want is performance and cost effcetive cards; AMD/ATI came up with the answer:clap::clap: Am still waiting for their HD 4870 X2:DQuote:
Originally Posted by jVIDIA
Great performance especially that it doesn't cost an arm and leg. The cards just consume loads of power though...
ATI HD4870 best bang for buck! Power Hog..
Nvidia GTX 280 Fastest single card to date! $$$ Hog...
oh well nothing is perfect in this world. hehehe
Reading that review, my first thought was, "Wow, great news for ATI!" My second thought was, "Wow, 'Jedi Major Counterattack' would be a great name for a band."
Very nice results on this card! AA scaling looks amazing. :)
Yeah if ATI can put 2x4870 on a single card then CERTAINLY Nvidia can put 2xGTX280 in 55nm on a single card.Quote:
Originally Posted by fireice2
Very suprising to see the HUGE power consumption of 4870. I bet lots of people will buy this because it is cheaper but they won't have a good enough power supply to run it at load. :p:
again powerplay doesn't seem to be working properlyQuote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papu
Well maybe so but 100C load temps are insane. Way, way hotter than my GTX280. If this is true it seems it will be harder to make 4870x2 than GTX280gx2.
Temps arent everything - my 9800gtx would idle at 60 degrees coz of Nvidias stupid driver setting fan speed at 0% (SO annoying :< )Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
No idea about the 4870 tho ;P
you want 2 x 512bit memory traces on the same PCB? are you crazy?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
it also seems replacing the TIM drops you about 20* , maybe they screwed up the goop , aftermarket coolers FTWQuote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
That wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that it uses a little more power than a GTX 280Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit93
OMGEE MOAR POWAH SAVEEH TEH ENVIRONMENTZQuote:
Originally Posted by natty
seriously is this xtremesystems or greensystems..... :ROTF::rolleyes:
Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznit93
Very much so :p:
Link where it uses little more power than GTX280?Also,remember on average it's only 11% slower than GTX280 in high rez. AA/AF modes.Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
:down::down::shakes:
I believe the power issue might be solved with a driver update or bios flashing and as for your insane temps reapply themal paste or switch to watercooling:D. Who cares, you should spend more time in playing with your new toy GTX280 and inform us on how it overclocks, run some benches, try to prove that itīs the best bang for bucks or are you bored and mad with yourself for jumping before the gun(buying GTX 280):p:Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
I wonder if the high temperatures are also caused by that metal shim around the core. Remember the 9700Pro / R300? For best contact you had to pop the shim, otherwise you needed a ridiculously thick layer of TIM to make contact, which we all know is not the best way to go.
powerplay only "fixes" idle power consumption, not load power consumption. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Papu
Do you guys think my Antec Earthwatts 500 can run this card? :confused:
cpu - e2160 @ 3.0
:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by loutsos
On the power consumption, I hope there was some anomaly in testing. AMD stated much lower power consumption, are they really lying by a factor of what, 50 watts or more? Hmmmmm.
You're kidding about the first point, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceevee
1. GTX280 is 1.4billion transistors vs. RV770's ~900million transistors
2. GTX280 uses a 512bit bus vs. RV770's 256bit bus
Ignoring power consumption, it is theoretically possible to do, but it's a really really stupid idea.
I don't think that 4870 has such a huge power consumption as claimed. First of all, look at the results of the 9800gtx vs. 9800gx2. Do you see the tiny difference in power consumption? Does that make sense? (Hint: no it doesn't!) Do you seriously believe that the 9800gx2 consumes only <20W more than the 9800gtx? This contradicts all other reviews!
@Miwo: Take a look at the heatsink, there you will see that the contact area is protruded a little to make sure there will be proper contact with the core and headsink;
http://en.expreview.com/2008/06/24/f...and-hd-4850/4/
The result with Lost Planet are really weird. The 4870 does 23,9 FPS @1920x1200 NoAA NoAF and it does 23,5 FPS @1920x1200 4XAA 16XAF. That's only a 0,4 FPS decrease from enabling AA and AF and that pretty much out of this world to only have such a small drop....or is this driver related?
About power consumption though, I'll reserve judgment until there are more reviews. Although I don't really care about maximum power draw as long as it's quiet, idle power draw is a bigger concern for me as my PC is idle most of the day. BTW, it has been a known fact for a long time that NVIDIA's TDP rating is very conservative, while ATI's rating is more along the lines of what it truly will draw.
Earthwatts are made by Seasonic aren't they? Good 12v rails on those, so I see no reason why it can't run one. I'd get something a bit beefier for Crossfire thoughQuote:
Originally Posted by natty
ahh thanks, I see that now. Though many aftermarket heatsinks like the HR-03 and Accelero S1 have flat bases, so something to keep in mindQuote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
yes but if thats not working maybe the fan isnt spinning has hard as it needs to , have to wait and see i guess. << regarding tempsQuote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Wait til more test results come out on the card before we conclude about power consumption. Reviews seem to be all over the place for the various websites.
that's not the best game to showcase 4870, after all, it can't even use AA in BioshockQuote:
Originally Posted by L7R
34 amp on the 12vQuote:
Originally Posted by Miwo
obviously it can't do crossfire but i'm worried whether it can run a single 4870
Could someone explain what the cause for that is? What in Bioshock makes it not possible for an ATI card to enable AA?
Why wouldn't it be able to do a single 4870? A 2900XT draws more power than a 4870....Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
WAH, that's awesome, the 4870 has dropped below €220 :D.
you can force it through driversQuote:
Originally Posted by natty
It can.Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up waver 01 and STaRGaZeR:up:
so why don't the reviewers test with AA then? are they just dumb?Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
I'm sure all the reviewers are not using AA in Bioshock because you have to put something other than Application Controlled in CCC and NV control panel, and then someone can say there are hidden optimizations and such. But they should say it CAN be used with two clicks.
And yes, most reviewers are a bit dumb sometimes. Others are always dumb.
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...a_performance/Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Wow!! five percent on average faster than the 260gtx and 10% on average slower than the gtx280.... The 4870 is looking mighty impressive!
me wants moooarrr
yea at Max ICT shop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
https://maxict.nl/product/502765/DDR...%2CHDMI%2CPCIe
looks a bit fishy, though.
yah, except r700 should be about 15% faster than a GTX 280...Quote:
Originally Posted by xlink
rv770xt is about 10-13% slower than a GTX 280... but I'm sure you meant to say rv770xt instead of R700;)
that was a typo... again i typed that late at night and while transitioning from qwerty to dvorak.Quote:
Originally Posted by jaredpace
I was dead set on a GTX 280, but money just doesn't flow like it used to with me. I have other things I need and want to spend my money on. If the 4870 can beat my overclocked 8800 Ultra across the board than this is the card I will get considering the cheaper price. It would have to come in a 1GB flavour however, and hopefully the fan isn't as loud as it looks. I really miss my Silencer from my X800 card, man that thing was quiet while still expelling air out of the rear of the case.
I'm not believing all these 220 Euro HD 3870 rumours with a link.
<-- Really wants to know if its true :eek:
Perkam
some shops showing 260 some showing 240 , a safe guess is about 250 but anything lower is always welcome , thats still about 150 euros cheaper than the 400 euro 260GTXQuote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I agree with that, I think its probably best to either water block these cards, or wait until some proper cooling solutions are offered, because getting up to 100 degree's or close to it, is going to be an issue for people with enclosed cases. Although in the winter i could put the box under my desk and warm my feet :PQuote:
Originally Posted by cantankerous
Woah... my GTX 280 just went on the 'Bay, incoming 4870 :D!
link me so I can bidQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
Sorry, it already sold :(... $620 USD shipped 2-3 day was what it was priced at.Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
Cookerjc's expreview.com is down, or is that just me?
Meh...that's a bit annoying as I wanted to check something. Ah well, patience is a virtue is what they say....
@GoldenTiger: Holy crap, that's fast....are they tough to get by or is $620 a 'low' price? >.<
who would pay you 620 when newegg is selling them new for 620Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
You were the one who said GTX280 too much money blabla right? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
Natty, your comments + your new membership make you look quite suspicious...
Perkam
???Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Yeah, it was really fast :D. With the 20% off cashback thing from Microsoft though, it's a good deal for people ($620 - 20% = 496 shipped).Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
See above ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
I said it was expensive, :). With the 4870 having proven to be 90% of the performance for half the price now, it is now overpriced in my eyes.Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
We have nothing to do with eachother :).Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Just saying. Your comments are quite obviously nvidia-biased, and usually new members are more neutral. It doesn't help your credibility. Believe me, I know :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
Perkam
He wants to bid on a card and you say ^^^^Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
Just because Natty doesnt agree with the ( HD4850/ 4870 trades blows with the 9800gtx/ GTX260, but the overall opinion is it deserves a >= anyway )
Doesnt make him a fanboy, quite the opposite
Realist more like
Are you a moderator? Put 'nvidia fanboy' as my title :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
My real fanboyism lies with single GPU cards. I want 4870 to perform well. Just concerned about the noise + power.Quote:
Originally Posted by y2kbos
He's getting more and more annoying like one that's for sure..Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
I think this is the most exciting GPU war since the Geforce 6 and the X800 series and as Ironic as it sounds I think that Intel will prove to be AMD's saviour as many people who own X38, X48, P45 rigs will purchase 2X HD4850 or HD4870 cards, I bet nVidia are kicking themselves or not selling the SLi licence to Intel as if that was the case many people (like myself) might just pop in a 2nd G92 based card instead of upgrading this round.
John
No they're not, but it would serve the greedy basteeds........................hehehe! I'm using a P43 and still will not use a nVidia card. As AMD fans would say, I don't support them because I don't like their Business dealings or practices!Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnZS
Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
LOL !! :rofl:
How about the power of the GTX 280? Doesnt the GTX 280 draws 50% to 65% more power than the 48xx?
And the noise of the previous HD gen aka 3850/3870, i'm sorry but even my scythe cooler is more noisy than my 3870
Now Ati coming back with new cards AND improved coolers, you think THESE Will be louder? :rofl:
What you are posting here is just.... silly :rofl:
If you actually read the posted review Yori, you'd see that card 4870 was only at 37% fan speed at at a load of 92C. Although the fan is probably fairly quiet at this speed my guess is most people who stick with the stock coolers will want to raise the fan speed to improve dissipation and if the fan is anything like th 3870s, It would be a lie to call them quiet at higher speeds. The current fan profile is a little bit too conservative.
Well they might not be loud , have you ever felt the back of your beloved ATI card , man those are hot, I couldn't beleive my friends 3870X2 card at the LAN how it heated up his pc... some mighty wattages flying there...
We as gamers get spoiled today... great cards from both sides that will have a nice longetivity (if ya don't own a 30 inch monitor ofcourse)
So, um, you're sayin' that you'll get even nicer longevity with a 30-inch? Yeah, that must be it. (Please?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Leeghoofd
review link is not working :(
you can go to the chinese version of the site, and see the red link for the 4870 review... and then just choose the menu's to see the benchmarks and comparison graphs which are all in english :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Morais
Nope I said these card run great and will be great for a long time to all users that DO NOT OWN A 30 inch monitor or such... as the native resolution of those monitors will bring most 512Mb cards to it's knees or the lack of GPU power will do so ... if you still play on a 19 inch or such where most top out at 1600 x1200 Res, these cards will power many games for a long time to come...:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by TedShred
I'm not english and I make typos, but I think that phrase was pretty clear and correct...:shrug: