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True the GTX preforms better when its bowed however neither block was bowed are you sure bowing would not also help the EnzoTech just as much if not more than the GTX? If your taking into account a modified base either bowed or stepped it should be equal on all blocks to determine performance since it could benefit each water block being tested trying to keep the testing equal should be preferred and provide more accurate testing data.
While I somewhat agree with you, the GTX ships BOWED now AFAIK so there is no flat anymore. Certainly the Enzo block would perform much better bowed but even better would be stepped :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtester
What I was trying to get at was you need to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges ie bowed to bowed and flat to flat to get a true comparison of the blocks performance. At a later or more involved comparison it would be great to see all current top blocks tested with flat, bowed, and stepped bases on both standard single core processors, dual core processors, and also quad core processors. But for early reviews We will take as much info as possible on the blocks performance as compared to some of the other top preforming blocks the more info the better.
Agreed but ALL FLAT BLOCKS meaning non bowed or non stepped will ALL perform in the same range... it can't be different, this is the limit of the IHS - It makes no difference how 'good' your block is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowtester
But several people use reviews like that one and the ones you do to help determine what are the best blocks available right now so the more even the testing conditions that are achieved when comparing blocks help give members an idea how the block should preform when compared to the other top blocks comparing it to a bowed or stepped block while its flat does not really give someone an idea of its performance or potential however if you test it against other top blocks under the same mounting conditions and testing conditions and it preforms almost exactly the same as the other blocks then someone could conclude that it was as good as the other tested blocks however if it tested say 1 to 2 C higher or lower then that would also let a person know what to expect.
sorry but testing a GTX not bowed is not realistic since they SHOULD be bowed.
There is no point to test them flat. We can`t even say that an enzotech will perform better bowed based on the flat test results.
Wrong. Any block would benefit from a bow or a step, this is a FACT (on IHS cpu's).Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
Bowed or not I can only say a sure thing about Apogee Gtx....the constructive quality is very very very poor compared to Enzotech and to Fuzion....Quote:
Originally Posted by leo_bsb
Can you do some testing between the SCW-1 and a bowed GTX ?Quote:
Originally Posted by vkbms
No, sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilikon
My Apogee GTX is in RMA..... :shakes:
Hi,
You can find a review here
http://www.google.com/translate?u=ht...&hl=en&ie=UTF8
Bye&Smile
seems impressive, but i would like to know how many re-mounts they did... and if they averaged the data form the re-mounts or just ook the best results.
we have all seen claims of uberness based off one set of mountins during testing, which essentially tells us nothing when temperatures are within a degree or two
All in previous post..... 3 different mounting each block..... FuZion & Enzotech give me the same result each time....for Apogee Gtx the first mounting wasn't correct so i'll take emperature with 3rd mount....Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Unfortunately i haven't got a good strumentation ....i've to believe at coretemp.....
So anyone have an idea when the EnzoTech blocks will be available in North American online retailers? Also does anyone have any idea when the matching chip set block might also be available they make such a nice looking matched set.
PEBCAKQuote:
Originally Posted by vkbms
what does that mean?:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
"The Apogee™ GTX is... shipped with a spare oversized body o-ring for users who wish to optimize their own setup"
The GTX is shipped flat and the end user is provided with the O-ring to bow the block if the end user wants to. Its a one-way street.
As with most issues... PEBCAK
It's actually quite rude and should warrant a ban. It means "Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard". Ian is just upset that vkbms is giving his opinion which differs from Ian's, seems Ian's opinion is always different unless it is in relation to Swiftech, which of course then it is all :cheer: out of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Think
On a side note, I do believe the Enzo block could be a champ of them all - just needs some tweaks.
Great... Ban me, please. Spare me the melodrama. Save it for the movie studios around the corner where you live.
Actually it's amuzing:rofl: .Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
I called Enzotech again and am totally frustrated at there lack of response so it looks as if I'm going to the swiftech too cool off the Q6600 and the 8800ultra. Just not sure how good the gpu cooler is. I'm a big fan of Dangerden ( loyalty issue more then anything else :) ) but the workmanship is just not as well refined as other watercooling block alternatives.
Is that how it works? If the opinion is different from yours... yours.. then it *must* be wrong... I feel myself pressured against the wall here.. no breathing room... the crush on my chest from your ego is horrific.
vkbms probably just got a defective block. Most aren't that way I'm sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
And therefore, it is appropriate to launch a tirade with sweeping generalizations...Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
Melodrama you started yourself :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
If vkbms is doing a RMA on the GTx, it is probably defective and the results with a good one might show it as the winner against the SCW-1... The only way to be sure is to have 1-2 other guys do the review like nikhsub1.
Ease up there buddy. If PEBCAK warrants a ban, so does your little fan boy comment. Can't we all just get along? :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
This is where we disagree. Ian is essentially calling vkbms an 'idiot' by saying PEBKAC is he not? In my neck of the woods that will get you a 3 day vacation. I NEVER call someone an idiot or personally attack them. I challenge data and ask for proof but I never in a round about way tell someone they are stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by [cTx]Baleful
No, I'm not saying that. He made a generalization that I don't feel is accurate. But I also don't think that warranted your comment.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Can't we just get along? It isn't a life or death situation if one guy likes one block over somebody else's favorite or whatever.
so whats the performence like with this ?
Then I guess we agree to disagree. Well in all honesty it looks to me like vkbms did screw up the GTX. It was fine before he took apart right, then he put the O-ring in it, now the threads are off? Am I missing something? That would mean Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair.... right? If this is the case, that vbkms screwed up the threads on his own, he shouldn't be downing the construction of the GTX.Quote:
Originally Posted by nikhsub1
Unless i'm just missing something here......
Have you seen the photos i made?Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
Top is in awful condition (i can do better with a dremel)...
The threadS in base just rip off.....
In addiction in the last reply, Swiftech said that thay don't change the block....
There's something else to say?
Nothing else to say.....
Especially of your behavior.... :shakes:
I'm not here to create flame ....but to give my contribution to this forum....
Bye, Swiftech fanboy.....
(sorry at all for my english)
I've simply unscrewed the bolts.....Quote:
Originally Posted by [cTx]Baleful
The o-ring for bow is still in the box....
he threads remain attached to the bolts.....Simply unscrewing it
I don't think to be the problem.....i'm noot a noob....i can unscrew a bolt....
:shakes:
I'll bring this to the attention of Swiftech and let Gabe Rouchon himself respond.
Vkbms i believe you with the latest GTX shipments. Im hearing quite a few posts of people noticing the finish on the GTX not up par.Quote:
Originally Posted by vkbms
Iany when you and i both got it, near launch, each was perfect, and absolutely flawless.
Nealh on the other hand, got one terrible Messed up. I believe vkbms has the same issue. If two blocks now are showing f'd up, i think gabe should do some ass kickn at the production line.
But I have to agree with iany on some aspects. Swiftech makes some of the nicest stuff you'll find in the industry. But they are still operated by human. That means human error is evident. At least there great with the RMA's.
Even so, this looks like more like an isolated case of a bad block, rather than "GTX build quality being horrible". Just because you've got one screwed up GTX dosn't mean "omg they're all crap". Look at how many ppl have bowed GTX's and this is the first i've ever heard where the screws have been stripped out.Quote:
Originally Posted by vkbms
Several people including myself have asked the same frustrating question.
When will these blocks be available in North America ?:down: and why in hell would they release it in Europe first ?:shocked:
well if the base was on for the test and not leaking..... then i don't think the threads where poorly made at the factory. IF there was enough pressure to get the threads to just rip off originally how the hell did the base miraculously stay on for the testing? even if they were poorly made threads taking off pressure from them wouldn't break them. if they were going to break it would be when you applied pressure to them, so it looks like someone turned the screw the wrong way by accident and stripped them.Quote:
Originally Posted by [cTx]Baleful
John at Jabtech asked me what to do with this block. My initial assessment, later confirmed by John, is that this is a "first generation" top. We had CNC issues cutting the angle. Costmetics suffered because we had a hard time cleaning up the edges. This only affect blocks that we made many months ago, and has not been an issue ever since.Quote:
Originally Posted by IanY
The stripped threads is another story. This would be the first time such thing is reported. I cannot explain one way or another.
In any case, I told John to RMA the block no questions asked. I do not know what happened after that, this was only two days ago.
It is incredible what my eyes are watching! :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by vkbms
Really poor quality materials and manifacture really bad! :down:
I think is a question of single faulty sample, it is quite impossible all samples are like this one!
If all samples would be like this one would be better not buy from this company!
I hope Swiftech will support very well and as soon as possible the guy who had this problem, replacing immediatly the sample with a good one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by v_parrello
I feel like there some sort of propaganda going on here. Both complaints are from Italian citizens. What's going on, over supply of EnzoTech products on your shelves?:shakes:
Il sig. Rouchon già ha detto che il blocco dovrebbe essere RMAed via Jab-Tecnologia senza le domande fatte. Capisco che l'inglese non è la vostra prima lingua, ma il relativo un alberino giusto sopra il vostro.
Sorry, pardon my Italian.. it is definitely not my language :)
I really don't want to create this mess with my post....
I can't explain myself correctly....
I've contacted via pm Gabe....I haven't buyed the Apogee from Jabtech but from Chilled Pc Uk.... so maybe he's mistaking person...
I'm waiting for his reply....
If moderators want to clean up this thread no problem for me.....
I really don't want to make a war to Swiftech.....but call me idiot seems a bit too much for me.....
You are going off the right road, and your offensive behaviour is not appropriate in a public forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Think
Do you really think some Italian citiziens are making complaints about these products just to make some form of "propaganda"? Do you think we are stupids and dishonests just because we made a complaint?
I made an observation based on what I watched with my eyes in some photos, you could disagree but you can not call dishonest every people that not agree with your opinions.
Please, be polite and serious! Before you write something think about the meaning of your speech!
P.S.: at the end I could say the some thing for you: are you making propaganda for Swiftech? I do not think the question is in this way!
I don't own a swiftech product but I plan to carry the line as well as Enzotech if they get there act together so there's no bias on my part.
Just to chime in, I had a Swiftech Stealth that had very bad threads for the stand offs around the core.
The one post just spins around, I had not over tightened the unit because the thermal paste had not even touched the core yet. It was spinning around in it's thread as soon as the screw made contact with it.
Every product has a percentage of duds, sometimes they unfortunately slip through the QC net.
so whats the performence like with these ???
i second that...forget the problems with that guys gtx screwing up...who cares???
Gabe told you the guy can get an RMA no questions asked so lets drop it and talk about what the post started out as, I came here to learn about a new block not some stupid dud of a block. Obivously this is not a real issue or concern for anybody buying a new waterblock from anywhere or any manufacturer. How many times do you hear about this type of thing? Not many, so every company makes some duds and sometimes they get out, RMA.
How many times have people bought corsair ram and right out of the box it is screwed, a lot more then waterblocks, so quit this crap and lets here some info on the block, or move this screwed block thread somewhere else so knowbody else has to come here wanting info on a new block and getting a :banana::banana::banana::banana::banana: fest.
Anybody else agree?
Yes
Back on topic plz
Ok, I've just made some fast screens. In reading them you should consider that I haven't technical instruments for temperatures measuration.....
Another important factor to consider is the position of the radiator : on the bottom of the case it is extremely disadvantaged , but my priority is the complete integration in the case...
http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...191413_rad.JPG
The temp in Rome at the time is 16° C.
Refer only to the value "CPU" ; Core 0,1,2,3 are completely wrong" :)
FULL --> http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...zotechfull.JPG
IDLE --> http://www.pctunerup.com/up/results/...zotechidle.JPG
I think you have the pics switched, the first one is full load and second is idle.
Also, something wrong with those core temps in speedfan, no way they can be 13C idle in a 16C room... 16C room??? that's cold!
Could you repeat using the latest version of coretemp please? :)
Tnx, now the pics are at their own place ;).Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO
No, 16 in Rome, that means outside :D In my room they should be more but as I said I can't measure it :shrug: . However in room there's no heating , so shouldn't be too far...
I will try the tests with coretemp but Probe gave me the same results as speedfan :shrug: .
those r both wrong u need speedfan 4.34 (beta). That ver. fixes temperatureQuote:
Originally Posted by Dexther
reporting problem. BTW 16c brrrr:)
Refer only to the value "CPU" that seems to be real : compared with coretemp 0.95 and the latest version of speedfan I have the same result :)Quote:
Originally Posted by rafrag
Can we see more pictures ? Some of the whole system and close up on the mounted WB would be nice ;)
Also for comparison, do you have any temp measurement of the same system with another WB ?
please dont Pm me. I dont read my PM'S very often. contact me at gabe@swiftech.comQuote:
Originally Posted by vkbms
You need core temp .95.4Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexther
If ambiant in your room is higher than the 16˚ in the street, that only makes the 13˚ reading even more unbelievable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexther
Forget the block. I want one of those miracle blue radiators!;)
as I said the real temp is that referred to the global "CPU" and not to the single cores :) today I'll try to make again the same tests :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedda
Actually, the core temps is more accurate than global. That's why you need to make sure you get the latest speedfan but it's better to get CoreTemp 0.95.4 like others said. This one is more accurate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dexther
Your temps is completely wrong and that's why everyone is questionning your results.
don't worry I'm going to follow your suggestion as soon as possible, probably I'll post some screen son Saturday ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilikon
Anyone heard any time frames for some of the North American Online retailers might get this block for sale to us poor Americans ;)
It looks like Enzo Tech either ran out of Brass or the Italian mob took over there shipment and made them into pasta bowls:rofl:
Looks like there a DEAD DUCK:shakes:
Think, did you check's nikhsub1's review ? The performance isn't there too so it's not worth waiting for it. I decided to get a Fuzion instead...
Right on. I didn't know that - Thanks:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xilikon
Apogee GTX copy basically?
Most definitely but a very nice finish as mentioned before but since there's no availability in North American other than Italy?:rofl: ...who cares:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriote
one more review :)
http://www.xtremehardware.it/content/view/1019/82/
Enzotec SCW-1 @ Performance-Pcs
Also is listed at frozencpu... Just an FYI
-yonton228/timmy
Yeah, I saw that. They also have the chipset blocks. I might pick up to a set to replace a Apogee Extreme and do some senseless chipset cooling but, it's going to be a quite a while before I can get around to rebuilding that rig, I have too many other rigs that need to get built in the meantime. :shakes: *sigh*
We've had these for almost two weeks as well...
Yes, but I'm in the States and I'm very picky about shipping costs. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Linus@ncix
I think you sold out.:welcome:
So what happened to this company...still around?
I too would like to know what happen to this company.
What do you mean what happened?
This was only their first step into WC'ing.
They've been air cooling for ages and have recently released stuff in that department. ;)
I heard there were cracking problems with the SCW1.
http://www.jab-tech.com/Enzotech-Sap...A-pr-4188.html
Looks awesome and solid. REV A.
Looks awesome i hope it performs as good as D-tek fusion rev2
jesus wtf happened in this thread?
so are there any users out there who have had experience with the "Rev.A" version?
Ill stick with my brass tdx :D
]Yes, avoid it like the plague. I picked one up 3 days ago and a hair line crack started to appear on the top plate. They should realize that install tubing can be aggressive and the tops should only be made of solid metal - not plastic.Quote:
Originally Posted by stormshadow
****EDIT, I may have the non revised version. I'll let you know asap
Then that wasn't the Rev. A you had as it has a solid copper top with a blue plastic cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by Think
I think you're right. I ordered from NCIX as the revised version and by the looks of it, I have the cheapo version. If this damaged my videocard, I'm going to freak out at NCIX for giving me the original version.Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterlogged
Thanks.
For the few times I've ordered from this company - I would say that I've had a clean transaction 60% of the time and now another one of there blunders.
They shipped me the enzotech cpu waterblock and the site indicated that it was the revised version. When I installed it, it started to leak slowly at first on my new videocard. I've cleaned the card using circuit board cleaner and hope to hell it's fine. My pet peeve is the customer service.
The trouble you go through to receive customer service is ridiculous. What's one suppose to do, wait for another week or more for a replacement part while your system just hangs out?
I called them and they requested pictures ( give me a break, since even at enzotechs website they are offering free replacements of the top plastic to solid brass - but only the US).
I sent the pictures as per request and it should only take an hour at most to resolve this problem. Now it's been 2 days ( one day for the pictures sent ) and Zero response from them via my cell phone or email.
I would rather pay more for my parts and buy locally so if there is a problem, I can get a quick replacement.
Hope Newegg runs there operations better.
What I ordered ( apparently the revised version ) :Quote:
07/31/2008
Notices for all "USA" Scw-1 and Snbw-1 users:
Users of either water block can exchange plastic tops for the full copper tops of the Rev.a model for free.
Please mail us your plastic tops with the original receipt to our RMA department at 20538 Crestline Dr. Diamond Bar CA, 91765 between Aug 1, 2008 to Nov 1, 2008. No tops will be exchanged after this period and no exceptions will be made. We will not cover lost shipments. Please use a reliable mail service such as UPS or Fedex. Please make sure you have the correct return address and contact phone number on the receipt. We will ship out the replacement tops upon receipt of your older tops.
For user outside of the United States please contact your reseller for exchange.
Here's a picture:Quote:
Enzotech SCW-1 Sapphire CPU Water Block AM2 LGA775 1/2" Barb Fittings *Revised Version
http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/5786/crackls8.th.jpg
Time of RMA REQUEST:
-August 5th ONLINE
-Became impatient so I called twice today, pictures sent at 12:49pm today.
Oh thats messed up, they have a plastic top 5thats made out to look like metal? thats worse then Asus anodizing their aluminum heat sinks copper colored.
FYI
Enzotech sent me a brand new Revision A full copper version. It's quite a bit different than the orginal, and I plan to test it in my big Q66000 powow. I really like the all copper of this block, when you pick it up it's very obvious how heavy it is compare to any of my other blocks.
Anyhow, I'll do my normal review with some good photos, pressure drop, and the thermal results as well.
Strange that Enzotech, famed for their forged copper sinks, would choose to use metallic colored plastic in their first waterblock venture...
Well, Enzotech was nice enough to contact me here and hopefully I can have it expedited to me asap. For the most part, the original design was flawed but what I purchased was suppose to be the revised version and NCIX screwed me up and possibly damaged my 4870 in the process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navanod
The owness of the responsibility lies with NCIX for sending me a known defective product instead of what I asked for and this is not the fist time. Many months ago they sent me B stock of the EVGA 680i that crashed and burnt within a day but fortunately the manufacturer contacted NCIX and they sent me what I ordered at there shipping expense.
Solving the problem is one this but should not be necessary. NCIX should get there act together and process orders of products that were requested.
Enzotechs design flaw will hopefully be solved with the brass top and my hats off to them for contacted me here and arranging a quick solution.
Enzotech:up:
NCIX:down:
You got what you ordered, the revised version is not Rev. A, there was another small revision before that with a slightly different plastic top which didn't fully fix the cracking issue though apparently.
@ThinkYes, instead of putting the culprit to ncix, maybe question your knowledge/research before you buy
Enzotech is the culprit. They never were clear about revisions until the Rev. A. There was an unofficial Revision, so called revision 1, still acrylic, to fix the cracking and it never was solved.
The Rev A is the first official revision.
Sites indicating Revision or revision 1 are still selling the old acrylic model that many like and don't have any cracking issue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickel020
Really:shakes: So how is the consumer supposed to figure out which is which? This is terrible and thanks for the clarification. Still, I don't see why it take 2 days to respond to an RMA and another 2 business days to make a decision - plucking the situation over the weekend and not seeing a resolution for another week?Quote:
Originally Posted by jonny_ftm
Really simple:
- ( 5 minutes )Client calls customer service with know defective product issue
- ( 3 minutes )NCIX clicks on the website and notices the recall revision but still requests photos
- ( 30 minutes )Client sends photos
- ( end of day - 6 hours or following day 12 hours )NCIX expedites a replacement top or issues return authorization number for an immediate refund.
http://www.ncix.com/products/index.p...7734&sku=27010
Says *revision but does not indicate which.
I fully understand how angry you are. I was looking at the Enzotech revision once. When I saw all the problems and no way to guess what WB you're getting, also seeing how Enzotech never officially admitted their WB suck, I looked elsewhere, and will never look at them from now. You should do the same. If NCIX said "revision", than it means revision 1, plexi top. You should compliment them as most resellers even don't mention if it's the revised plexi WB or the old plexi WB. Enzotech never gave any clear indication to distinguich between them. Copper top revision is Rev A. and just coming stock these days to distributorsQuote:
Originally Posted by Think
Some resellers lable it Rev 2. Just move your way, those resellers don't know what they sell. There was never a revision 2
Here's a link to the correct block you are looking forhttp://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=199&product s_id=22690
I think!! :yepp: :shrug: :yepp: :shrug: :shakes:
Better to enhance your coding when you post as the urls are crippled and won't work when posted like you do, even with a copy/paste because of the forum formatting textQuote:
Originally Posted by menace2society
Here's correct link, and it is clearly stated as Rev A. indeed
http://www.performance-pcs.com/catal...ducts_id=22690
Both D-tek and Enzotech are sending me replacement parts and are both aware of the problems. Enzotech version A should be here on Tuesday and D-tek back plate threading issue should be here Wed. NCIX apologized and provided some bonus free shipping on my next order since they had not replacement or equivalent. So hopefully by next week it will finally be up and running.
I will tell you one thing, I'm not going to take a chance and am going to using thread sealer ( automotive type ) for the inlets and a thin layer of silicone between the blocks. This would not of solved the block from cracking but the new revision in metal so I should be ok.
I sure hope my 4870 isn't toast after being doused with 20% red fluid and 80% water:shrug:
Thanks
Guys ... is there any review/test comparing the Enzotech Rev.A vs the new Apogee GTZ?