brazing the condenser (not done yet- its my first brazing joint)
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brazing the condenser (not done yet- its my first brazing joint)
brazing rods
mapp gas
parts
parts 2
parts 3
the paste for brazing
workplace
well i tried to tell everyone months ago about the solder and low temps.Quote:
Originally posted by berkut
In the past i tested my evaps @ ~30 bar (~420psi) (using solder and didnt leak :D) but it isnt sufficient cause there are temp. fluctuations... like the leak i had- it was perfectly fine during pressure tests to crack when the temp. lowered...
the solder will work if you machine a lip into the block to keep it rigid and stiff.that way the block itself holds its self together and solder just seals the gas in.when the block drops to -40 and below so many times it is trying to flex with the expansion and contraction that takes place over and over again.sooner or later it will leak.
i had blocks leak after a month of running untill i figured out how to stop it.:D
are those brass brazing rods? I hope not those are a real pain to melt.
Nice job Berkut, Can't wait for the final temps. Need a refrigeration job? We have an opening!
i think he lives in poland...Quote:
Originally posted by nyTroX
Nice job Berkut, Can't wait for the final temps. Need a refrigeration job? We have an opening!
too bad, i would take a summer refrigeration job in a heartbeat (if it were close by ;)).
Well I think brass rods are always goldish, but I could be wrong.Quote:
Originally posted by Warlord
are those brass brazing rods? I hope not those are a real pain to melt.
If they are phosphorous brazing rods then you don't need that paste, they are self fluxing.
Also just a tip, I would put a de-superheater (basically a pre-cooler) on the low stage.That way the high stage compressor doesn't have to deal with so much heat from the low stage compressor and less heat from compression.
And always remember to static charge, unless you are making a cascade system with a low pressure refrigerant in low stage, then the de-superheater isn't needed as much and you don't "need" to static charge.
I know, i read all your posts and work on all forums i know you write in.. :DQuote:
well i tried to tell everyone months ago about the solder and low temps.
the solder will work if you machine a lip into the block to keep it rigid and stiff.that way the block itself holds its self together and solder just seals the gas in.when the block drops to -40 and below so many times it is trying to flex with the expansion and contraction that takes place over and over again.sooner or later it will leak.
i had blocks leak after a month of running untill i figured out how to stop it.
Unforutenetly in my future block i dont think ill be able to machine a thing like that... :\
Yes they are :D Ill buy oxygen today and mod my torch :DQuote:
are those brass brazing rods? I hope not those are a real pain to melt.
Thanks for the offer but i do all my stuff my self :DQuote:
Nice job Berkut, Can't wait for the final temps. Need a refrigeration job? We have an opening!
Yes i live in Poland, Warsaw, its written below my nick ;DQuote:
i think he lives in poland...
too bad, i would take a summer refrigeration job in a heartbeat (if it were close by ).
No, they look like copper before brazing and after they are goldishQuote:
Well I think brass rods are always goldish, but I could be wrong.
No they are not self f;uxing, its even on the pics when i show the paste needed for brazing.Quote:
If they are phosphorous brazing rods then you don't need that paste, they are self fluxing.
You mean a normal air cooled condenser or a 2 phase change system before the main condenser ?Quote:
Also just a tip, I would put a de-superheater (basically a pre-cooler) on the low stage.That way the high stage compressor doesn't have to deal with so much heat from the low stage compressor and less heat from compression.
Ok, now some more info on the progress... I coiled the condenser, its 6m in lenght, 10mm OD inner pipe and 22mm outer pipe:
Different angle
Corners
the corners soldered using soft solder
Ok, some info on how to braze...
1. We takse some flux and smear it on the future joint:
Why didnt you go for a co-axial heat exchanger as well? too difficult to make?
Looks good though, didnt realise you were watercooling the top stage...
]JR[
2. We heat it up with a mapp/ propane-oxygene torch and put some solder on it, if its heated up enough ut should fill up the joint very well
Yes, its too much work, this much more simple and needs less resources (the exchanger was made using special soldering paste wich already has solder in it)Quote:
Why didnt you go for a co-axial heat exchanger as well? too difficult to make?
Looks good though, didnt realise you were watercooling the top stage...
In the original version i didnt want to use water for cooling but after carefukll consideration ive decided to make it...
The most important facts:
1. Soundless
2. Can take extreme heatloads
One corner made:
Ok..
Ill have to buy a oxygen tank and ill mod my torch, thats all for now, in 2-3 days ill post some new info...
Ah ok they are brass, I never cared for them.As you can see in your picture it isn't flowing very well, it is clumping.They take alot of heat to flow well, which makes it easy to melt the copper.Also flux in a refrigeration system is no good, which is why I like to stick with phosphorous brazing rods.
Like I said, the de-superheater goes before the low stage condenser to cool hot gas entering the heat exchanger.
One more thing, that condenser you had could handle the heatload easy.Even on low fan speeds.If you fixed it of course.
Silver solder or sil-phos. Anything else just doesn't cut it. And silver solder flux works great for both.
I don't see any brass in the pictures. Those are all copper fittings.
Yeah I believe the ones I use are sil-flo brazing rods.But they don't require flux.I do have some brass brazing rods but they are more for welding rather then brazing.Quote:
Silver solder or sil-phos. Anything else just doesn't cut it. And silver solder flux works great for both.
I was talking about his brazing rods not the fittings :)Quote:
I don't see any brass in the pictures. Those are all copper fittings.
His brazing rods do look like copper, but he says they are brass.
I think I am going to go take a look at my brazing rods...
sweet! so ur going to have water pump throught the big copper pipe? then have the lil copper tube doin the -c cooling!?
Correct :) Its a pain if you get a leak though...Quote:
Originally posted by Pimpsho
sweet! so ur going to have water pump throught the big copper pipe? then have the lil copper tube doin the -c cooling!?
]JR[
Thats why im buyng an oxygene/ acetylene torch ^^Quote:
Ah ok they are brass, I never cared for them.As you can see in your picture it isn't flowing very well, it is clumping.They take alot of heat to flow well, which makes it easy to melt the copper.Also flux in a refrigeration system is no good, which is why I like to stick with phosphorous brazing rods.
This is the condenser so temps will be ~30C+Quote:
sweet! so ur going to have water pump throught the big copper pipe? then have the lil copper tube doin the -c cooling!?
But its much more quiet... the fan in the a/c was driving me crazy....Quote:
Correct Its a pain if you get a leak though...
Yeah that is what I was using when trying to braze with brass rods.It just kind of clumped up and wnated to melt the copper more than anything.Could have been from not using flux, but in your pictures it still looks like it was clumping.Oh and if you try to weld with it and get it too hot, it pops all over you. :eek:Quote:
Thats why im buyng an oxygene/ acetylene torch ^^
Oh about the fan, you could have got a light dimmer for it and ran it at lower speeds.They work very nicely that way.Although I have ran into one a/c that had a replacement motor in it, and at low speeds it hums.So that one didn't quite agree.
watch out when buying one.i found out years ago.the best ones are ceiling fan controls,i found some light dimmers wouldnt work with my 120mm 115v fans i used.but the cieling fans switches work.Quote:
Originally posted by pc ice
a light dimmer...man that could work for alot of things...thnx for the ideal...
just look some are and can be used with a motor.
Yeah make sure it is tough and can handle quite a bit of amps.So far the two I have used have worked ok, but one gets a bit hot.
Nice idea with the dimmer :D
Bought the new torch,not a oxygene-acetylene but a mapp gass brenzomatic
pics:
new torch
The brazing rods.... i use those that arent covered with flux cause they flow better
Some pics of the condenser..
:@
:D:D:D
I almost made the condenser, ~1-2 days ill finish it totally (with cleaning it up etc) and pressure test it (the outer pipe cause the inner is 6m of 10mm copper pipe) and ill start to mount eerything
ill also make few new things, a subchiller for the I and II stage and other toys :D + cosmetical work
good going my friend...
good luck,and if i can be of help let me know.
Who makes that torch head? I need one :D (How much did it cost?) Looks like your mapp bottle is the same as mine, fittings wise and canister wise, i havent been able to find anything to fit it yet...Quote:
Originally posted by berkut
new torch
http://www.phjrw.34sp.com/mapp1.jpg
http://www.phjrw.34sp.com/mapp2.jpg
]JR[
Ooh, it looks like a JT539 head is only like $25, and in the US next week, perhaps i can pick one up...
]JR[
Its sold as a brenz'o'matic for brazing ;0 Costed 100$ :0 you guys should thank god for not living over here :0 some things are simply crazy :0Quote:
Who makes that torch head? I need one (How much did it cost?) Looks like your mapp bottle is the same as mine, fittings wise and canister wise, i havent been able to find anything to fit it yet...
And now some pics of the finished condenser :D:D
Its not sanded yet but its hermetic= doesent leak :D
looks ugly but its quiet and will be efficient
more pics :D:D:D
The pieces of pipe used to enforce the whole thing (before adding them the joints cracked)
2nd pic of it
pics of the enforcments made
2nd pic of it
the joints
those are normal solder joints wich eaked so i brazed them and the joints you see were created, they are brighter than normal joints but almost as hard as brazing
corners ;]
the dirt after brazing etc
.. ;D
godamn man u got some major skills!!! how long did it take u to braze all those joints? and whats the ETA? another week?
It took me few days preparations etc. and about 2-3h of finishingtoday will be cleaning time- im gonna sand it, just like my mc462a (gave me few *C)
GUYS, THINK I FOUND MY EVAPORATOR BASE :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
its perfect ;o
Simply wonderfull, and it was laing next to me on my 2nd desk :0
base is 2.4mm thick :0
Sure its copper? It looks coated?
What was it from gfx memory cooling?
]JR[
its from a leadtec a300td, its copper :>
That looks like a winner, Berkut. If your refrigerant connections are at opposite corners, then all paths are equal distance. That should give you a very even spread with minimal pressure drop.
Im not so optimistic Gary... I think that the mist will flow mainly through the center and some of the mist will simply go through it w/o any contact with the fins so i think that theres a need for some path so the the distance will be larger:
Look @ this pic:
Since most of the mist will go through the center- ill add wals so it flows through it and comes back by the sides- the path is longer- more mist has contact with the fins...
What do you think about it guys ?
I also talked with a refrigeration spec and he'll probably sell me 1kg of R23 for ~50$
Ok, about to mount the cascade
rdy to mount
well i think it will work great.Quote:
Originally posted by berkut
Since most of the mist will go through the center- ill add wals so it flows through it and comes back by the sides- the path is longer- more mist has contact with the fins...
What do you think about it guys ?
I also talked with a refrigeration spec and he'll probably sell me 1kg of R23 for ~50$
after tearing down a prommy evap,,,well you are making a simerlar one but much more surface area.
now you may get some gas at first but you will have alot of liquid inside of the evaperator while running,it may surprise you how much will be liquid against the gas.
you have a nice setup my friend:D
good luck.
ps..i am going to get alot done on mine this weekend i believe.
at least i hope so.as long as i dont get asked to get married again like last weekend,,LOL:rolleyes: woman today are pretty forward.:D
Hmmmmm... Routing it that way will concentrate the cooling in the center and starve the outer runs, rather than spreading the cooling evenly. On the other hand, the heat source is in the center, so you may have a point. :D
In any case, it has lots of surface area and should work very well.
Ok, brazed 2 stands of the condenser...
Made the stands, i have to trim them so the condenser stands as it should
godamn thats lookin good but whats that copper piece for? :slobber:
Modern art?Quote:
Originally posted by Pimpsho
godamn thats lookin good but whats that copper piece for? :slobber:
No its the condensor. :) LOL itll make mr. icee's cooler look piffeling and thatll just be the condensor and watercooling to go with it :)
/me waits in anticipation...
]JR[
the whole thing will be cooled with currently one radiator from a golf II, later ill buy a second one to decrease water temp. and in winter the condensers temps will fall down to really low temps ;]
ill test the whole thing tomorrow (if i finish it) but w/o the "uber" evap but with a simple hollow one, with some crap cap tube and R22 in the second stage :o hope that with some 0.6- 1bar pressures in the condenser there will be some decent vacuum on the evap :D:D
Ok i had to redisign my system....
The watercooled conenser isnt working properly, it falls in vibrations beafause of the compressor and the most important thing i cant mount it properly... :\
Im gonna mod this evap to a condenser, with me luck:
I have to reroute and rebraze ALL of them :o
i have done what you are doing and it is tough....Quote:
Originally posted by berkut
I have to reroute and rebraze ALL of them :o
good luck my friend and take your time or you will have lots of small leaks.
u gata be kiddin me u gata take all the elbows off and re braze them in a diff spot?
The future condenser assembly + base :>
Ok some more info on the condenser assembly...
Its the evaporator part from a split A/C system, its extremely quiet and has quite an airflow... had to mod it a little (Diax 0wnZ :D)
Forst a closeup on the fan itself
Heres the upper plate used for mounting purposes
I couldnt find any suitable screws so i made some ^^
You must have noticed my dirty keyboard, sorry for that ^^ It survived many things like flooding with acetone (dissolves plastic), soup, cocacola etc.
A knother shot on the condenser assembly, you can se the I stage compressor on it
Heres a closeup on the seals i used to prevent air from leaking from the condenser, its normal neoprene pipe isolation
Man.....this is really getting good! Keep up the great work! :D
:toast:
Your wish is my command ;]
The glue i used to mount my exchanger and connect styrofoam with wood
The 99% final configuration
Where do you sleep? :D
I dont sleep ^^
im on the finish with this cascade, everything will be done exept the evap and its surroundings (injecting system etc.)
i wish i new how this was going to work lol i have folowed this thread since the begginin and still duno how its going to work...
Ok, some more info...
I finished the I stage, need to do a duct for the compressor cause it got >60C after 2-3min of work :o
I use a 00X valve on that TXV, maybe tomorrow ill change it to a 0X cause 00X is much to small...but it works ;]
Closeup on the filter (im gonna change it too cause its wet)
Temp after 2min of work
Forgot to say smth. about presures...
Its 200 psi on the high side, 0 on the low, 31-32C ambient...
Here's the wirering for the II stage and the I stages fan...
Mounting II stages compressor
I think theres a curse on me that doesent let me finish this cascade... Just when i had these temps no prob the pipe leaving the txv broke off...
That really sux man, but I guess better that it happened now than later.
keep on truckin...you are almost there :D
Ok, got rod pf the leak and its rockin again ;] God bless brazing and flaring tools ;] Some pics in a moment ;]
And a next scene in my movie about my cascade
Ok, smth off topic, a coil or how is it called for the II stage... It will be conected in such a way that it will be turned on with one switch (just click and it works; it will give power to the coil, it turns on the II stage compressor and powers itself) and it will work as long as the whole system will be powered, when i turn everything off the coil cuts off power to the compressor and itself and wont turn on untill i wont press the button ;] So theres no way i can turn everything on with the same switch ;]
Ah and BTW, ive got -42C on the exchanger ;]