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Has anyone else experienced a brick wall with the FSB for boot/post ?
I'm hitting a wall at 245mhz FSB 1:1 (2Gb Ballistix , M740 , P4C800ed & 1023.001).
Its 100% absolutely error free at 245 in memtest(9hours full tests). But will not even post at 246mhz (regardless of multiplier used).
BUT - I can change the FSB in windows to 250 and its 100% rock solid with all tests ?
Anyone else experienced this.
Im thinking its just a BIOS bug.
yer i have p4c800-e latest beta bios and cant post over 226fsb but it works fine in windows at 250fsb..... even if i try to restart my pc with it semt over 226fsb with clockgen my pc wont post the sata hdd's dont spin up and the screen is off but everyting else seems to work so maby its a pci lock problem?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasa
Just ried that - same thing. No re-start. Have to shut down and start up. :confused:
I have the same experience with the p4p800se. I can't boot over 239.
And in windows without a problem. It's kinda annoying when you use memtest. If you do, you have to use dividers to get higher DDR Mhz's
thanks, i'll try that when i get back home today.. will see what it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by railer
only thing i can say is that withou pat (pat being completely off) performance
is noticeable down from pat fully enabled or even partially enabled. partially
enabled happens at fsb > 200. cpu-z says it's enabled, well that's kinda true,
but using ctiaw you'll see it is only partially enabled. unless you can up the
ram to run at ddr500 on booting, you're not going to see pat again with these
high fsbs... when pat is off, i have to up the fsb quite some to get close to
what i got with it turned on. i even put a former cpu-heatsink on the nb...
no deal. if anything it worsened the oc (at least that's how it seems).
anyway.. what struck me as odd was the difference between the last gen
ati card (9800xt) and the well (now) last gen nvidia (6800gt). sure the nv
is faster overall, but what's that got to do with the nb and all? i mean, almost
40mhz of fsb-power lost only by using a different videocard - that seems
rather odd. where's the connection? i mean from the performance feedback,
3d2k1 offers, the 9800xt (when overclocked) wasn't that far off compared
to the gt, except of course in nature or dx9 stuff...
thanks! another thing i will try. i can't view the pic you linked to w/o reggingQuote:
Originally Posted by IronChefff
there, but i guess i know what you want me to try. so far i've been running
the tweaker to change the 2 settings below the "normal" timings. i don't
know what that setting is at right now, but i'm pretty confident it is at 00
right now. we'll see if it helps the situation. because what's the use of high
fsbs when you can't really use it (in 3d that is).
anyway.. another thing i found odd with my dothan combo was that when
i am running win2k, i can put out real good 1m and 2m superpi runs. but once
i try 32m, my times go to hell. the same config that can run a low 26 will take
a good ;) 48m (!!) for 32m. that's win2k sp1. with the same setup and almost
identical settings (main stuff is there, memory timings, yadayada) on a winxp
pro sp1 install (former amd xpm install, blatantly misused with shot direct x9
install and all) i am able to pull low 29m for 32m. that is still not great, but
one hell of a difference. anyone know what could be the cause?
the win2k install was brandspanking new by the way... got the same slowish
result with the win2k install of the old xp-m...
Would agree on the bios bug. Cant boot over ~ 225-230 here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
Whats interesting is that if you boot to windows, then restart the pc with the fsb set below the "no boot" fsb (if that makes sense) it'll restart fine.
If you set the fsb in windows ABOVE the "no boot" fsb then it WON'T reboot properly. It just sits there at a black screen.
ie, boot at 210 fsb (standard boot with 2*256, 12*) the reboot, everything will be fine. Boot at 210 again, drop multi and set 255 fsb, it'll run tests fine, prime95 and whatever. However restart the pc (shutdown is fine) and it hangs on boot.
Sounds very much like a bios bug. Have played with the 400/533 jumpers that didnt fix, very strange problem!
Big ????? also here, since I had a vga monitor connected I managed to work rock solid at 2612 mhz (201x13).
Then I bought a new 19" lcd monitor with dvi and from there I experience many craches and I had to lwer the cpu frequence to 2520 (210x12).
The oly change was DVI connection usage!!!!
Ciao Olaf
This is a bit off topic-
What is the difference between a 478 pin and 479 pin 533 dothan? I mean, obviously, there is the difference in the amount of pins...but are they both compatible with the same things? Was the 479 variant just a later version created to stop morons from trying to put 478 P-M's in socket 478 boards?
Differences between these two? http://processorfinder.intel.com/scr...+on+selections
Has anyone a guide to fit a mach 2 to the ct 479? I've read that some modding is needed just need to see how much is needed before i splash out
while it's true the dothan *socket* has 479 holes, a dothan actually has only 478 pins :)
and your link shows a dothan with pins (yup, that's the 478 thingy) and a dothan with
balls (bga - ball grid array) - that's the 479 "pin" type.
the bga-piece needs a special socket or a special adaptor to make it run on the asus
adapter. the other is just your regular dothan. i'm running a sl7sm (760, ppga) and a
sl7em (755, ppga) and boy they don't have balls, but pins and work without troubles
in your regular i855 mobos or on the asus adaptor... :D
@marvt
look around here, it's either in this very thread or in a dothan thread close
by, where hipro showed his prommi mount on a dothan setup.
Thanks for the clarification. I just bought a new 478-pin 730 for $152 on ebay and I just wanted to make sure it would work with the CT-479 before I bought it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by sky
Now it's just time to decide on the $90 p4p or $170 p4c :\. Seems the p4c is getting better results but I don't know if I wanna dish out the extra $70...I'm a poor college student you know ;) Seeing as though I have junk ram at the moment, I'm leaning toward the p4p since I won't be able to pull amazing speeds with Crucial Value RAM regardless of nb capability.
By the way, I came across this discussion of PAT performance increase a few minutes ago while googling. Kind of interesting, but I don't know how relevant it is: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/mai...-p4p800_8.html
Highland3r
Thanks , then we can confirm its a geniune bug thats affecting everyone - hopefuly it will be fixed with a BIOS.
dqniel
P4C800ed without a doubt - save save save . Its worth waiting an extra week.
Its not just the fact the P4C is slightly faster, it is also a better layout.
I make 70 in one night of work, but I save for other things...like the ridiculously priced gas that gets me to work along with college tuition;). Who knows, maybe I can find a used p4c800ed for only a bit more than a new p4p800se.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
I pulled a bare P4C800ed board off ebay for about the same as a new P4P800se, so yeah its possible.
I have used both P4P and P4C btw with this dothan, so Im talking from my own experience.
Thank you Sky, my xtpe borked so seems like a good time to switch since i cant use that as an excuse not to anymore :D
Bring on the dark side
update regarding my post from earlier today. i guess it is time to spread some
thanks to railer and ironcheff. being the lazy smartass (?) i am i incorporated
both their recommendations in one go and went upping the clocks.
so with both fixes in place i was able to up the fsb once again to >300 and was
actually able to bench aquamark3 at 9x306 (2754 mhz) with the geforce mildly
clocked at 400/1150. so i guess we can state that this works. which of the two
fixes finally made this possible, i don't know. suffice to say that it works. this
was done running the mem 3:2 (not good). anyway, i had to ump the pci-agp
fix up to 36/72 in the process, since the rig went into supercrawl mode once
i passed 304 mhz fsb at those settings i used.
now what i need to figure is how to make this work with my ram. so far i've been
able to go up to +240 on the ram - which really isn't that much of a feat, con-
sidering it's bh5 (2x kingston 512mb sticks, them being doublesided doesn't help).
but then again, with this p4p800-se my vdimm drops considerably under
load. vdimm mod is done via lm358 and resistance is set to 0, so whatever is
left of the 3.3v rail after some regulation, goes to the dimms. by bumping the
3.3v to about 3.5v on this last try, i had about 3.27-3.3v working the rams
under load. idle is ~3.4v...
i need to stabilize the vdimm, because 0.12v max droop under load is not to
be tolerated. makes benching some sort of a gamble. ideas to make this
happen are appreciated. btw psu is an ocz powerstream 520w - and i doubt
its 3.3v line takes a dive under load, when it didn't buckle running my xpm
@3.1ghz loaded.
hipro5 .... and sorry for the long post
If you don't mind, I have a few questions about your Prommie mounting ....
1) What did you do for the back?
2) Are you using the back heater pad? (i assume you are because of the low heat output of the Dothan)
3) When you attached the Intel cradle, did you add any spacers to raise it a bit? I was think of doing that to decrease the force being applied by the CT-479 heatsinks holddowns.... I read that it is a lot.
4) Those are the holddowns from the CT-479 heatsink?
5) Did the heatspreader allow you to apply more pressure than normal?
Here is my plan
1) Using a #8 nylon screw thru the Intel cradle, washer(or 2 or bolt), thru motherboard, thru the Prommie backplate capped with a washer and nut.
This will raise the cradle holddown notches around 1/8" to 1/4".
2) Apply a thin foam tape around the processor core to act as a shim
3) LOTS of seal string like you have
4) using the same hold downs from the CT-479 heatsink.
5) Add another layer of neoprene all around the Prommie head
6) Add another layer of neoprene on the back
I am a little afraid of condensation because of the low heat load geneated by the Dothan ..... even at 3.4g (i wish! :p: :p: )
I am hoping for 2.9 to 3.1g from a 730M on a P4P800SE for everyday use.....Dreaming?
Man, I wish I didnt just throw out the heatspreader from a busted p4 last week after seeing hipro's mounting trick. I guess I can scalp this 1.7 that I was going to send out for pin repair seeing I dont have any other p4 boards to use it in... Nice one hipro, now I have mounting methods for both my vapo and my mach II!! Now I only need another 740!
just some thought.. i guess the heatpad on the rear of the board may not doQuote:
Originally Posted by bhoward
anything to avoid condensation, as it is a good way off where the real cold is.
think of how the setup would be:
on top you have the evaporator of the prommi, below that maybe the ihs of
an old chip or some other means of stopping the evap from tilting on the tiny
dothan die, thus chipping it. then the chip itself, after that the adaptor.
up to this point it's more or less a "regular" prometeia install. BUT the adaptor
has a socketlike thing on it's bottom that fits onto the actual real socket of
the board.
what i'm trying to say is that you have a huge area of air underneath the
adaptor that needs taking care of before thinking about insulating the actual
rear of the board. if you don't insulate up there, like hipro did, you may not
need to put anything on the back of the board. overall you have about an
additional 0.8-1.0 cm of material (adaptor) between the backside of the mb
and the evap head.
this is just a thought. may not mean much, but might be worth thinking
about :)
cheers
sky
The rear of all motherboards must be insulated whenever you are colling with sub-zero temps. The CPU --> it's pins --> adapter --> it's pin --> socket --> it's solder provide a direct channel for the cold to the read of the motherboard. If not insulated, frost will quickly appear there and kill the motherboard (at least!).
I am asking if the rear heater is being used to finish evaporating the coolant so that no liquid is returned to the compressor which would kill it in time. i.e. make the CPU feel hotter to the prommie.
My 2.4a is plenty hot enough to achieve this since it is providing around 140w (my guess-a-ment). The Dothan under full does around half of that.
I was recently told by somebody that it might be a problem with 2x512. He said that apparently Dothan's, no matter what you do, just don't like 2x512 :\. He said 2x256 is the way to go if you want anything respectable. Maybe you should see if you have some 256 sticks lying around that you could test to prove this theoryQuote:
Originally Posted by sky
The "simplest" way........ :)Quote:
Originally Posted by marvt74
http://www.thelab.gr/images/Hipro5/D...mmie_mount.jpg
1. I used the Promie's default back panel but crossed with the holes.......Just with the seal string like an AMD mounting.....Quote:
Originally Posted by bhoward
2. Yes....
3. No spacers at all....
4. Yes they are...
5. I gained almost 50MHz more on air with the heat spreader and about .....nothing on phase change........
You CANOT use a heat spreader when using a prommie and the holddowns from the CT-479 heatsink....Too high and it won't fit....I change the mounting of the prommie now....I'll post some photos later on about that.......ALSO when trying to pull out the prommie's head from the Dothan when I had the seal string, I pulled out the CT-479 adaptor too and broke two pins of it......Soldered back.... :D
So no more seal string for me anymore :)
I wish you to hit over 3100MHz with the prommie.......I couldn't managed to do so.....At 3025MHz I can bench ANYTHING - even 3D - BUT at 3031MHz I got freezings......I've changed mobos from P4P800-SE to P4C800-E and the exact same things happens.....3025MHz MAX no matter what.......From -20*C full load to -32*C full load........NOTHING........3025MHz MAX....... :(
P.S. P4C800-E mobo is way TOO faster from P4P800-SE........ ;)
Thanks for the info hipro5
Hoping to see your new pic of the mounting
PS If you raise the cradle using a nylon washer between the motherboard and the cradle, you could ease the pressure applied to the CPU allowing you to use the heatspreader...??
Ran some more tests on another Dothan system (another P4C800-e Del) same thing, 250 boots fine, 255 wouldnt boot, system runs fine in windows to ~ 275. As tested before, resetting the system at 275 = no boot. Rebooting its fine. Resetting at 250 though and all is fine :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jericho
No boot on 8* multi on this system either.