Bowmans Mod Shop

The Nature bug happens for me when I put the mem juuuust that little tiny bit higher than is stable. Usually knock it back down 2-3mhz and all is good again :)

Personally I rekon they should be allowed. As you said Bowman, the car low bug is accepted so why not this Nature bug? A score is a score. It goes back to the tearing arguement that if it tears its not counted - I again disagree with this.

Its actually not often that the Nature will give you this bug, but yes it does, and can mainly only be done deliberatly. I know the point in my machine where it happens, and yes sometimes Ill use it to get over the line if I am close to my goal.

If you can get a score without killing your card/cpu/cooling then for sure I rkeon it should be legal :)

I also see the other point of the argument that charlie puts forward - but I dont think durons will be showing up near the top anytime soon :D

Its a tough one to decide isnt it.....but while we all decide, lets have one of these :toast:

Once that barn door is open....

??

How many peeps "right now" are thinking and experimenting at home about how to implement a Nature cheat? Bank on it....you'll start seeing 185+fps Nature scores in 25K benchies next week. Count on it.

C

Ok then! Why don't the "Ole School benchers" that know every FPS per FSB for every VC core clock/mem clock JUST write the rules that are acceptable for "REAl" scores...then us n00bs would be able to look at the list and say...yea! I have a "real score" or darn...it's bugged!

Cause if you don't write it up and make it a sticky...then I guess I'll have to send all of my future benching scores to Macci for approval before I post it! :mad:

LOL oh wow.. too funny

Well charlie then I gues it then comes down to the personals morals - Do the have the conscience to post it knowing its bugged? Or do they just leave on thier HDD and and aim to get that same score unbugged? :D

Hmmmmm :)

bowman, I dont really see the point of comparing two bugged nature scores there?
And getting 2.5FPS difference in nature using similar card cloks aint normal either. Just comes to show that both runs are bugged and you were a bit more lucky on the other one.

But is it too difficult to test it like I suggested:

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start at safe clocks (lets say 580/400 in your case)
run the test, write down the result and increase the clocks a bit (2-4MHz) and run it again. at some point you'll see FPS improvement thats higher than it should be and when this happens your entering the 'bugged nature zone'.

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Personally I rekon they should be allowed. As you said Bowman, the car low bug is accepted so why not this Nature bug? A score is a score.

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Like I said car low and nature are two totally different things. Good car low happens if it happens there is nothing you can do about it - thats the way the program runs it. And its the same for everyone and the max car low FPS only depends on system speed and the faster the system your running it in the higher the max FPS and higher the score.
Nature 'bug' occurs ONLY when you push card mem too high. Also it may increase the score by 3fps or 20fps. And the score improvement is only because the card doesn't render the graphics correctly.
Isn't it a bit silly if you can get higher scores with lower card clocks than others (and its in a test that only depends on card clocks..)??

macci.....dont get me wrong i totally agree with you....:D

but there is no way to tell who has a bugged score and who does not.there needs to be a patch made by futuremark to either catch it or prevent it.
there is no way anyone can tell what the limit on anyones video card is.one mans may hit 185 and the next may hit 179 or 176 and so on....so fussing over it is mute.
every card is differant.
you can take one and get the memory cool enough to allow a 20mhz over the next card.that card will pass maybe at 185 and the next will only hit 179...with small artifacts.
there is no way to tell period...unless we all start video taping the benching runs to show.
i uderstand you completely but there is no way to say ya or na.it is all in the card.
but i know i burned a 64mg ati card years ago by pushing the memery on 3d2001..wiped it out..was forever scared with lines though the video screen.so that is the price you pay sometimes to push the edge.
but like i said how can you tell.there has to be a patch somehow implimented to catch it..it would be the only fare way to slow it down.
to be honest i dont even look at most of my benches....one thing i will tell...i cut off my monitor while benching most of the benches except nature and drago high because thats where i get my lock up at mostly.

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Originally posted by macci
Isn't it a bit silly if you can get higher scores with lower card clocks than others (and its in a test that only depends on card clocks..)??

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Yes it is a bit silly :)

But heres something I will reveal and I dont know if this is cheating or not, but I sit there for about an hour and run car low over and over and over and then avg the scores so I know what I should be getting as min and max.

I then start my benching and when I come to car tests I know what I should be getting. During the running of the bench, or even at the end, I rerun car low over and over and over again untill I get the score I know I should be getting.

Yes this depends on certain scenes taking place macci like you said, so thats why Im wondering if its cheating? Or is it just 'fixing' the Car Low bug?


Good discussion here guys :thumbsup:

ps
Did I even mentioned; COngrats Bowman on the 28K!!!!??? :toast:

we on car low the barrel talk about it jumping in the picture means little to nothing.

as i started watching the last 20 or so benches.
and i got atleast 10 runs without the barrel in them...

and the score never jumped to the high side.actually i got the highest with the barrel.

so go figure.
and it has not much to do with the fps showing in the bottom.as i watched on run that wasnt hitting very top fsp speeds...and it was one of my fastest...so i dont understand what is going on...it diffantly is messed up.
that one in itself isnt right....but i didnt have these differences when i was benching lower scores like 20k seams to be really bad when you start going over 25k.
i dont think the program was designed to be pushed this hard and it shows up in errors with scores...
i can hit 388 car low now.but that was a flukey thing...i had a barrel in the pciture and the fps only hit mid 500's i have seen low 600's and only hit 363fps. so whats up..something isnt right with car low either

I'm no expert at this, but I have been reading this thread with interest and I think Bowman just hit the nail square on the head with this statement:

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i dont think the program was designed to be pushed this hard and it shows up in errors with scores

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You guys are getting scores now that I don't think anyone imagined when this was written. It's kind of like my cpu temps showing in my bios as -111c.
;)

Well 3DMk03 is probably more "accurate" for a modern system....but gawd! they did a lousy job making it attractive and fun to run.
Bottom line....if the benchmark was truly accurate, you'd get the same score every time unless you made a hardware change or speed change. But there is some sort of "luck" involved and that's probably what makes it fun!

C

I'm not exactly sure what you mean about observing the fps in the car scene but my take on it is that just looking at that could never give an accurate indication of how you will score. If your getting 300fps - think about it, that's 300 frames per second! No fps counter on screen can even keep up w/ that. First of all you can't see something that fast and then your monitor is only refreshing at 60hz. So you see a "snapshot" of 1/300th of a second which is fluctating probably hundreds of times and it is unlikely that that "snapshot" will be when it is at the peak number of fps. I may be way off but that's how I think of it...

Jason,
I saw 611 the other day... ;)

C

well boys benching is over for me for a couple of weeks,but i have a couple new toys to work on.unless i get a spare day
i will be seeing how cold i can get a small 404 condensor unit down in temps with a baker block....

and i actually vacuumed down the high side of the cascade....i have put off because of time.

SO WE ARE BACK TO THE COOLING PROJECTS....for a while:D

by this weekend i hope to post some pics of the latest projects up.and i am pulling down the bench rig-----moving the condensor outside and run longer lines inside so i can take advantage of the colder nights....should help me drop 5c on my load temps..i will see.:D

by then the r9800xt should be up and running.with a small suprise...:D

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
OK say it wiht me slowly??
"YOU WATCH THE "FPS" counter at the bottom of the screen and if it doesn't peak in the 580-600+ range at the first corner and at the last part before it closes to go to car high its bugged and ya have to close 2k1 and reopen and rerun untill this doesn't happen ;)

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not to start any flaming or anything but is it me or has mickey been abit stuckup since the five minuts he was on top of the orb. damn dude just be nice.

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Originally posted by TheDude
I'm no expert at this, but I have been reading this thread with interest and I think Bowman just hit the nail square on the head with this statement:



You guys are getting scores now that I don't think anyone imagined when this was written. It's kind of like my cpu temps showing in my bios as -111c.
;)

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Exactly,

Were pushing 3dmark2001 much further than it was ever designed to, madonion probably expected us to be using 2003 by now... shame they made such a mess of it...

I think this talk of some scores being bugged and some not, in my book if it runs and you get a compare then its ok...

well i dont want any people in here getting upset at one another.....
as i have the whip......LOL...:D

but 3d benching is over for a while and sub o cooling is back up running.

so like i said i will be posting some updated pics of my system running and maybe a modded r9800xt extreeme cooled...just not cpu cooled.maybe memory too.

anyways guys....I think it was first said by a bleeding man down on the street,being beaten by police....

.:wierd: .......Can't we all just get along...........:wierd:

ok i can injoy a little scarcasim just thought id voice a little bit of my opinon and let you know theres some that would probobly take it the wrong way. besides you,ve always seemed like a decent guy in the past. so your mother mickey...your mother :P

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
I like a good whipping now and then even if i haven't been a bad boy, lol..

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OOO BAD MENTAL PICTURE....:(

i need a stiff drink to get rid of that thought.

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
LOL, I don't know whats worse me telling ya I like to be whipped or you taking the time to have that mental picture cross into your mind, hehe :)

don't worry out of all honesty Im a sexy man, lol

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MMouse....PLEASE Stop!! It's getting worse!....:eek: Bowman, quick throw something together, phto it and post back...:D

well i know its about time i posted a pic...

since i had to brase up a block tonight i decieded to work on the cascade manifold.
i found the best dam things for flex hose on here yet.no brasing...to connect them up. 24" stainless convoulted tubing with pre attached sae female swivels.
they should work nice.i ran accross them by acident.
anyways here is the dual return manifold

ooh is that a baker block i see;):toast: nice bowman lets see what else u got cookin over there;)

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Originally posted by MickeyMouse
you make it look so easy when its really not

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Thats the problem, people see the end product but not the labor that goes with it. when you've been doing something for so long
that it becomes second nature onlookers always think it looks easy. My boss doesnt have clue about what i do but he'll give me
a project that he couldnt do if his life depended on it and then tell me how long it should take. go figure:rolleyes: Once again bowman great work!!!!!!!!! & i know what goes into it. :thumbsup:

Bowman im waiting for some ownage here ;]

Right now im working on my injector to connect it to my system..

ok...now i have a nice little unit i am working on tonight.a little copeland condensing unit with a baker block.this is going to be a nice little cooler....
here is some of the pics