Radeon HD 7000 Revealed: AMD to Mix GCN with VLIW4 & VLIW5 Architectures

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Originally Posted by bhavv

It is a perfectly valid reason if you've played any of the Physx games with Physx enabled using a dedicated card, and no longer want to go back to playing them without it. I dont see AMD cards currently supporting Physx effects or anything comparable in some of the games I have played, and I personally enjoyed the additional eye candy.

AA methods are not really a valid reason since AMD also have their own unique AA methods, and MSAA works on every card and in every game regardless. Physx however does not.

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If you like that extra candy then that is a valid reason and is only down to a matter of personal opinion.

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Originally Posted by Andrew LB

nVidia does handle PhysX in a fair manner. They paid for the technology and have spent large sums of money over the years improving and expanding the feature set. Anyone who believes nVidia should just "give" AMD this technology is either insane or has clearly never spent tons of their own time and money bringing a product to market.

If AMD wants to use PhysX, they can do what every other business has to do in these situations... PAY nVidia for usage rights.

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Usage rights is at the developer level and the customer who paid for the NV card.
AMD cards do not use PhysX, the NV card, CPU and game uses the PhysX, the visual output stage is irrelevant and is not need for PhysX calculations, the games uses the PhysX calculations and not the rendering device.

If AMD users want PhysX run on the cards then yes AMD should licence= AMD card doing the PhysX calculation like NV card, the Same PhysX calculation can be run on the CPU but slower on the PC and on the consoles and no fee to what GPU is in them because the GPU is not running PhysX or doing the calculations and is no different with Hydrid because once again the AMD GPU is not running PhysX or doing the calculations.

You licence to execute PhysX computations on GPU hardware and not what it outputs it to, which can be many things.

What your saying would mean that Microsoft should pay a fee as Windows is using the PhysX by your definition and even the manufacturer of your monitor or TV has to pay as well because its using the PhysX and if i record my gaming session and anything that i used to record it and play it back on needs to pay a fee.

In fact all pay for SW could pull the same stunt by your definition and charge AMD, NV and Intel licence fees because the visual out is done on one of the 3 most of the time and AMD, Intel pay 3 times because of the there CPUs and motherboards as well.

Afterburner, Western Digital, Samsung, NEC, Sony, Pioneer, Belkin and Youtube ect... also need to play up because of peoples use.

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Originally Posted by Andrew LB

nVidia does handle PhysX in a fair manner. They paid for the technology and have spent large sums of money over the years improving and expanding the feature set. Anyone who believes nVidia should just "give" AMD this technology is either insane or has clearly never spent tons of their own time and money bringing a product to market.

If AMD wants to use PhysX, they can do what every other business has to do in these situations... PAY nVidia for usage rights.

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Nobody's asking Nvidia to give away their tech, I just want to be able to use hardware I already paid.

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Originally Posted by El Maño

Nobody's asking Nvidia to give away their tech, I just want to be able to use hardware I already paid.

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No better than your employer telling you what you cant spend your wages on.

Haha they're actually a lot of laws and rules telling you what you can't spend your money on ;)

The PhysX debate is stale and hasn't changed in the last two years. Some things remain the same.

1. There's zero evidence that nVidia is somehow dumbing down the console versions of games (nutty conspiracy theories live on)
2. PhysX is an optional proprietary feature. Don't like it? Don't use it.

please people...... talk about hd 7970........

CROSSFIRE REVIEW:
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/review...roduction.html

QUAD-FIRE TEST:
http://www.xfastest.com/cms/tid-69701/

OC REVIEW:
http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon...erclock-guide/

Poor results in Skyrim.

Bulk jelly of that 3Dmk11 score in the quad fire test.

-PB

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Originally Posted by XSAlliN

Poor results in Skyrim.

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AMD will probably get round to getting working CFX drivers for skyrim mid next year, possibly 2013. I know I got sick of trying to play it on my laptop and just played it on my desktop instead. :down:

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

AMD will probably get round to getting working CFX drivers for skyrim mid next year, possibly 2013. I know I got sick of trying to play it on my laptop and just played it on my desktop instead. :down:

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Find the error: gaming on a laptop. 'nuff said.

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Originally Posted by FischOderAal

Find the error: gaming on a laptop. 'nuff said.

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Alienware M18x
i7 2920XM | 16GB DDR3 1600
2*6990 | WLED 1080P
2*Crucial M4 256GB | BD-RW

I'm not sure it still is a laptop... I know I wouldn't let it anywhere near my lap, it might discover it likes meat.

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Originally Posted by Iconyu

Alienware M18x
i7 2920XM | 16GB DDR3 1600
2*6990 | WLED 1080P
2*Crucial M4 256GB | BD-RW

I'm not sure it still is a laptop... I know I wouldn't let it anywhere near my lap, it might discover it likes meat.

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Just because such abominations exist does not prove that laptops are meant for gaming (which they are not).

They are not laptops, they are desktop replacements. Stuff for people who have too much money to burn and trade in flexibility for ... well, insignificantly better portability.

2x 6990s? In a laptop?

-PB

PB, they are around the same spec/speed as a pair of desktop 6870's.

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Originally Posted by FischOderAal

Find the error: gaming on a laptop. 'nuff said.

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You should work for EA support with responses like that.

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Originally Posted by FischOderAal

Just because such abominations exist does not prove that laptops are meant for gaming (which they are not).

They are not laptops, they are desktop replacements. Stuff for people who have too much money to burn and trade in flexibility for ... well, insignificantly better portability.

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Nothing like a bit of badly disguised ad-hominem eh?

Let's lay down some facts:

• You can game on laptops, or please find me the law/rule that says you cannot.
• It doesn't replace my desktop, no laptop can.
• What I or anyone you are not related to do with their money shouldn't concern you.
• It's considerably more portable than a desktop. Can a desktop do 7 hours on battery then switch over to the d-gpu's in a blink for some good quality gaming?
• I can turn up to a lan with a single messenger bag containing said laptop, power supply, a mouse & a mousepad. Seriously convenient.
• AMD drivers are great for single cards and 50/50 rubbish for crossfire. I've used amd/ati for years and this problem has reared it's ugly head on many occasion, far more so than I get with sli. - Which was my inital point in the first place. AMD need to work much harder on crossfire as right now I would prefer the 580's over the 6990's becuase of poor/non-existent scaling in recently released games.

yeah I have seen this kind of setup before, I used to own one of those high end gaming laptops a few years ago, the only good thing I can see on it is that is portable (to the nearest power supply).

they still chew through battery fast when gaming, so its not much different from a desktop.

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

You should work for EA support with responses like that.

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Oh, I'd like to get payed for these posts but I'd hate to be associated with EA.

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

Nothing like a bit of badly disguised ad-hominem eh?

Let's lay down some facts:

[LIST.][*]You can game on laptops, or please find me the law/rule that says you cannot.

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You can does not mean it's meant to be. Basta.

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

[*]It doesn't replace my desktop, no laptop can.

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Oh, tons of people would disagree. Mainly those who only play Sims 15 (or where they are at)-

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

[*]What I or anyone you are not related to do with their money shouldn't concern you.

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Fair enough.

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

[*]It's considerably more portable than a desktop. Can a desktop do 7 hours on battery then switch over to the d-gpu's in a blink for some good quality gaming?

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A laptop that has a dedicated GPU and runs a game for 7 hours? Please elaborete. I'd like to see these unicorns. (Yes, you did not say that it runs games for 7 hours, but this discussion is about gaming on a laptop. Period.)

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

[*]I can turn up to a lan with a single messenger bag containing said laptop, power supply, a mouse & a mousepad. Seriously convenient.

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Until someone spills Coka Cola on your laptop. That's quite a typical scenario for a lan party. And I don't see any advantages going somewhere with a 3 kg laptop instead of a 10 kg rig (incl. display, keyboard etc). Usually, the beer has the biggest "share" in the BOM.

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

[*]AMD drivers are great for single cards and 50/50 rubbish for crossfire. I've used amd/ati for years and this problem has reared it's ugly head on many occasion, far more so than I get with sli. - Which was my inital point in the first place. AMD need to work much harder on crossfire as right now I would prefer the 580's over the 6990's becuase of poor/non-existent scaling in recently released games.
[./LIST]

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Can't argue with that. I've never used a multi gpu setup just because of all the bad rep I got from my friends (SLI and CF, to be fair).

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

Which games do you plan on going back and playing at any point soon? I played Mafia 2 and Cryostasis for the first time with an AMD card and didn't feel like I was missing anything. Physx in Alice was impressive but I wouldn't lose any sleep over not playing it again. To be honest losing 3d vision in most Alice, Batman, Mafia 2, and a bunch of other games would bother me far more than Physx. What games that use Physx do people even care about.

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Sacred 2 I've played for over 18 months and enjoy it with Physx. Also the first Alice was one of my favorite PC games and I have played through it many times. I'll be doing the same with Madness Returns.

You cant apply your personal opinions to another persons reasons, I have never stated that other people shouldnt be buying these 7970s, I only stated that I wont be buying AMD anymore, and Physx wasnt the only reason I gave:

1) Physx (I mainly care about it Alice Madness Returns and Sacred 2 thanks, I play these games a lot and will continue to do so. Batman I played a little, but dont really care too much about it, but there may be future games released with Physx that I also enjoy).
2) Terribly poor crossfire support in the latest games (Skyrim)
3) Lots of bugs when using crossfire (I've had 3 separate crossfire setups now, and changing to SLI eliminated anything negative that I was experiencing on crossfire).
4) Overall, in the games that I play the most, Nvidia cards outperform AMD ones.

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Originally Posted by 3NZ0

AMD drivers are great for single cards and 50/50 rubbish for crossfire. I've used amd/ati for years and this problem has reared it's ugly head on many occasion, far more so than I get with sli. - Which was my inital point in the first place. AMD need to work much harder on crossfire as right now I would prefer the 580's over the 6990's becuase of poor/non-existent scaling in recently released games.

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Exactly what I've experienced, and I have been through far many more ATI / AMD cards and crossfire setups than I have Nvidia / SLI. After changing to SLI after being a long term crossfire user, I wont be going back to using two AMD cards. A single AMD card works completely fine, but I simply want two and they are useless for that compared to Nvidia.

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Originally Posted by bhavv

2) Terribly poor crossfire support in the latest games (Skyrim)
3) Lots of bugs when using crossfire (I've had 3 separate crossfire setups now, and changing to SLI eliminated anything negative that I was experiencing on crossfire).
4) Overall, in the games that I play the most, Nvidia cards outperform AMD ones.

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as i said nvidia has much the same amount of problems with new release games when in comes to cf\sli and it can take months for them to fix
the only reason they would have any less problems is if they are supporting more games development than amd which may well be the case and typically gets them a head start over the competition with drivers

well nvidia dose have the fastest gpu on the shelves for the moment so thats no surprise

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Originally Posted by FischOderAal

You can does not mean it's meant to be. Basta.

That is of course, entirely your opinion.

Oh, tons of people would disagree. Mainly those who only play Sims 15 (or where they are at)-

Good thing I was talking about my personal usage then.


A laptop that has a dedicated GPU and runs a game for 7 hours? Please elaborete. I'd like to see these unicorns. (Yes, you did not say that it runs games for 7 hours, but this discussion is about gaming on a laptop. Period.)

The m18x has 3 gpu's. 2 dgpu's (6990's) and an igp (hd3000). There are two modes, igp and dgpu which you can easily switch between. In dgpu mode obviously you won't get a great battery life as you have two powerful graphics cards running, in this mode I can get anything from an hour to 3 hours battery. In igp mode it switches off the two dgpu's and uses the hd3000 which sips power. You now have a huge battery powering something that uses power akin to a mainstream laptop. In this mode I can get 6-7 hours of use on the trot, it's even possible to game on albeit with far lower fps and settings than you would with a good dgpu.

So excusing the size/weight which isn't a problem for myself I have the best of both worlds thanks to that simple switchover.

Until someone spills Coka Cola on your laptop. That's quite a typical scenario for a lan party. And I don't see any advantages going somewhere with a 3 kg laptop instead of a 10 kg rig (incl. display, keyboard etc). Usually, the beer has the biggest "share" in the BOM.

That's what you have insurance for, though I've never seen it happen. Closest thing I've seen is someone who was drinking way over their limit spew all over their keyboard and screen.

As for not seeing any advantages, check out the size of a pc-p80 case online, it's absolutely massive, as are 30" displays. I was able to fit that in my old car no problem but not my current.

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Think that about does it. :yepp:

HD7770

GPU clock 1000MHz
Memory Clock 1125MHz 128 bit
Performance ~6850 -5%
2GB

http://www.chiphell.com/forum.php?mo...=336310&page=1

http://www.abload.de/thumb/190857kki...mzlj09rogk.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/190852dhq...ygbphgjou1.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/190617gug...zu9pht6opp.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/190623nlz...iine888rrh.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/191943prl...8qq7rg9ohy.jpg http://www.abload.de/thumb/190610czl...y133i1sp47.jpg

Interested to see TDP/Real use wattage measurements on that 7770.

I wonder if there's a single scenario where 2 GB would be truly useful for that card. Most likely it is performance limited before hitting VRAM limits. Perhaps for CF purposes, but I'd recommend against budget CF regardless...

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Originally Posted by pantsu

i wonder if there's a single scenario where 2 gb would be truly useful for that card. Most likely it is performance limited before hitting vram limits. Perhaps for cf purposes, but i'd recommend against budget cf regardless...

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bf3.

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Originally Posted by spicypixel

Interested to see TDP/Real use wattage measurements on that 7770.

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well it only has 1 6pin pci-e connector..... probably pretty good considering it has 2g of ram (dont think these will come with 2g of ram)and its clocked at 1ghz (probably overclocked), plus Amd's new idle power features

i heard rumors the 7770 is going to be at the $149 price mark...

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Originally Posted by STEvil

bf3.

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Are you sure the GPU won't limit before that?