Very nice values, indeed :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by piaskoon
Very nice values, indeed :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by piaskoon
the best stable i had was 440/860... now i again wave bs, even on stock speeds... it seems that extra capacitor isn't right solution... damn.... i wanna do ultimate mod!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Hello BS-Community,
nice to see that there are more than just few people to have the same problem as me (:p: sounds a bit ironic, I know!)
My card is a MSI 6800le with the second fan design. I bought that card from German Ebay, so the card was giving Blackscreens from the beginning at stock speed. After a large internet research (last year March) I finally found a page which described the capacitor softmod (3300uF, 16V)! But with TP 1 and TP 9!
I bought a cap and after the mod the bs was away. But overclocking the ram over 750Mhz it reappeared. Now having read this awesome forum thread I want to try the ultimate mod.
But the problem: Actually I`m living in Sapporo (Japan) doing the Civil Service (german: "Zivildienst") instead of military. So my Computer is working at the other side of the world in Germany.But at the moment it`s only used for 2d-applications by my brother! :fact: (e.g. Word)
My questions:
-Do you think this side will exist until I`m flying back in June-July this year? I want to try the ultimate mod; but have I understood it right, that the U.m. is perhaps not forever????
-I can`t give any details which green capacitors my card has, but I don`t know where to buy good ones! How about using some from a defect Ati 9600xt?
-Could you post a picture of an soldering iron? Never seen one before! But I know somebody being good at electricial things
Bye,
Nonnenteufel
Yep, having BS at stock frequencies or lower = 'the card is ruined'. In that case 'ultimate modification' seems to the best (and maybe only) way to repair the card.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlovrek
How long it took the card turn from 860 MHz to present condition ?
Hi,
Ironic, not at all: I was also somehow quite happy when I find out in the first place that in am not the only one. How many defected cards there are still 'out there', 1000 ,10000, ... ???Quote:
Originally Posted by Nonnenteufel
This model has been somehow better in respect of BS as the first model (AFAIK). Since, you was not the first user it is not known whether it was BS-affected even when brand new, but since you were looking for a solution in March there is no way card was not older than half year (?). I suppose it has "4 8 470 6E" or "4 9 470 6E" capacitors, but that is not so important since these models are known to be BS-affected (and hard to modify).Quote:
My card is a MSI 6800le with the second fan design. I bought that card from German Ebay, so the card was giving Blackscreens from the beginning at stock speed.
Yep, that is the first invented mod. Having GOOD capacitor between TP's 10 & 9 gives better electrical performance, BUT many/most cases with MSI-cards that mod does not work too long.Quote:
I finally found a page which described the capacitor softmod (3300uF, 16V)! But with TP 1 and TP 9!
1. I am sure it will (at least I will be here :toast:)Quote:
My questions:
-Do you think this side will exist until I`m flying back in June-July this year? I want to try the ultimate mod; but have I understood it right, that the U.m. is perhaps not forever????
-I can`t give any details which green capacitors my card has, but I don`t know where to buy good ones! How about using some from a defect Ati 9600xt?
-Could you post a picture of an soldering iron? Never seen one before! But I know somebody being good at electricial things
Bye,
Nonnenteufel
2&3. Nobody (?) can guarantee any mod will survive for ever. However, many users have made mod several months ago and are still running without problems. The key issue is to use VERY GOOD capacitors. The specifications are listed detailed in post #1. So, in theory you could use old from ATI, but in practice it is extremely unlike you will find proper (and still at good condition !!!)
4. Never see soldering iron ;) I suggest to test soldering **little bit** before trying out 'ultimate mod' or ask friend of your to do it for you. Here comes some fotos:
http://images.google.com/images?clie...-8&sa=N&tab=wi
hm, i think a couple of months... i don't play lot of games, just sometimes run 3dmark to see my score...Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
btw, now i'm trying to overclock cpu as much as i can.... for now prescott 3.0 is at 3.6 (15*240) with 1.425V, and memory at 480mhz with 2.5-3-3-8... i have titan vanessa s-type cooler...
This is quite interesting info: some (MSI) cards get ruined in some months even when NOT used for hard 3D-gaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by jlovrek
hi there,
Just some info on my card, a XFX6800XT marked 15 sept 2005, so it should be one of the latest revisions. I found another posting about this card with simular findings, but two is always better then one right? :D
The BSS started almost right away with quake4, but I can't remeber if that was @ stock speed & settings, probably not.
The frustrating part is it's easy to reproduce BSS, only not @ stock speed, so RMA should be hard if not pointless :(
Ok on to my findings:
325x700 8px4v no BSS
325x800 " BSS in UT2k4 linux amd64 and Ski Alpine Demo 2005
380x700 12px6v occasional BSS in UT2k4 linux amd64
380x740 " ditto
380x800 12px6v BSS in UT2k4 linux amd64 and Ski Alpine Demo 2005
I contacted XFX and they told me to disable AGP FW and SBS and set AGP to 4x. Bastards I thought, just ignore the problem and give standard answers, but:
all AGP FW off (SBA off or AGP 4x was not possible)
325x700 8px4v no BSS
380x700 12px6v no BSS
380x740 " occasional BSS in UT2k4 linux amd64
380x800 12px6v BSS in UT2k4 linux amd64 and Ski Alpine Demo 2005
Interesting ain't it?
Now I also have problems with my HD's (1 IDE and 2 SATA) so I bought a better PSU. I already had a 550W PSU only very very cheap. The new one still is a cheap SWEEX PSU, but it has 6 Molex connectors so at least I could provide my GPU with a dedicated powerline:
AGP FW on again
325x700 8px4v no BSS
380x700 12px6v no BSS
380x740 " no BSS
380x800 12px6v BSS in UT2k4 linux amd64
So I'm not sure if I'm just pushing my card too hard or have the same problem that so many other people with 6800LE cards have. It seems though it has more to do with mem speed then with core speed.
PS I could provide a ss of the caps if that would be helpfull, they're the purple ones.
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion77
Thank you for detailed report of your experiments, many interesting 'features' :)
--
Yep, too bad not to get EASILY BS at stock frequencies - no way to get it RMA'd :(
--
About XFX's hints about AGP FW etc. That makes sense: those settings lowers memory usage/performance -> lower power consumption -> BS propability decreases. So, that 'trick' has the similar effect as 'Vsync=on' AFAIK. Anyway, you STILL got BS under some conditions (low OC'ing)
They considered that as a workaround ?? They did not give any REASON WHY you should be usÃ:banana:ng those setting ? I think card should be working with ALL standard setting at any normal condition..
--
About power supply. I am quite sure about why BS propability varies between supplies. The current sourcing capability is of course main issue, but the voltage levels varies a little bit and BS propability increases rapidly when molex 5 V level decreases. I confirmed that myself when I was measuring current consumption of a BS affected card (a small shunt resistor in 5 V decreased voltage only ~ 100 mV, but BS propability increased A LOT).
--
XFX 6800xt is rare (still), but seems to have exactly the same features/problems as XFX 6800le (v1 & v2). Your card (and XFX 6800le v2) utilizes 'purple' (Sanyo SVP) capacitors AND still have BS-problems, indicates that XFX has severe problems to manufacture cards ((MSI has also manufactured similar cards 'purple capacitors' & BS-problems as reported earlier in this thread)). I think that this is due to following reasons (and/or):
- Too high temperature is used uring manufacturing (due to RoHs), which deteriorates capacitors (and other components?)
- Feedback components of the feedback are far from optimal values -> 'BS-free-frequency' for memories is very low
At least one user has replaced purple capacitors from BS-affected XFX 6800le-card, and the BS-free frequency increased considerably. Since, he utilized EXACTLY the same models (!!!) the theory about too high temperature during manufacturing could be correct.
--
The codes top of purple capacitors might be interesting. Any change to get foto of your card :) ?
Ok, after some hard soldering I replaced all the ICs on the back (except the 5 pin mosfet on the bottom, couldn't identify it) Boy, did the ISL6534 suck:mad: . It has a ground on the underside of the chip that is soldered on. Anyway after all that... same problem. I can only try a few more components. I'll try the other caps. Do you have any idea the ic on the front? I couldn't identify that one either. Anybody else heard of/had this problem?? any input is greatly appreciated!:)Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Thank you for your reply, very helpfull. About my new PSU. The funny thing is voltage output is actually worse then with my old one: 12v->11.5/6 5v->+/-4.85, although it seems more stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
I talked to somebody at the shop yesterday and we agreed I could return it for a better one anytime, this is the best they have:
HIPER Type-R 580
That ought to be stable and enough I think :D
Also I tried to relax my main mem timings a bit (3-3-3-6 @ 333Mhz) and this time it took about 45 mins before I got BSS with UT2k4 linux amd64, which is kind of a record. All it takes btw is some heavy rendering in front of you like a rocket exploding in your face :D
I'll try to relax my cards timings abit to see if that makes any difference. Although after all I read I should probably just RMA the damn thing, especialy after XFX replies. You see I did asked them about BSS and problems with certain cards under high load. They ignored my questions and not only gave the standard answer about AGP FW, SBA and AGP 4x but also told me to buy a new PSU AND MB!!!!!! Now a new PSU makes sense, but simply replacing your MB to see if it makes any difference?? What do they think that I'm from Saudi Arabia or something !??
Anyway things could be worse, at the moment there is only one BSS affected game and its performance sucks anyway (compared to the default windows i386 version: 30fps versus 100+!).
PS attached some foto's, hope they're of some help to you.
h, i have psu everpower ph-500w and my voltages are (when idle):
+3.3v: 3.30v (28A)
+5v: 5.05v (45A)
12v: 11.55 ??? (25A)
+5v standy: 5.20
when my system is load, my cpu voltage drops from 1.425 to 1.32, average is 1.35... why is that? should i buy better psu?
If it's an AMD64 you shouldn't worry about that. It's just AMD Powernow/cool&quiet kicking in and that really is a good thing ;)
no, i have prescott 3.0 which is really hot...but i have titan vanessa s-type and it keep it at idle at 37c, full load 48c at 3.6 with 1.425v....
You have been working hard with soldering iron ! I believe ISL6534 was tough one ;). I see, you have quite good supply (shop) for components: which kind of capacitors used for replacement to 'green' capacitors ?Quote:
Originally Posted by kramer_117
In the front side of the card is quite few IC's for regulator circuitry, maybe only is regulator for VTT/VREF-generation (near purple 330/16 and 1500/2.5 caps).
Have you measured voltages of TP's ? It would be usefull to measure those and compare with values listed in document.
Thanks for fotos :D Some details can be seen e.g. some different capacitor models (black label capacitors), but hard to say whether this has any significant effect..Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion77
---
Nice to heard they will RMA card ! I suggest to go for that before they change mind ;) Too bad they had no idea (or just acting like have no idea) about 'black screen'.
I think you should NOT by a new MB in the first place. I consider that just marketing...
---
Quote:
12v->11.5/6 5v->+/-4.85, although it seems more stable.
Sorry, I did not get ;) What are 5 V values old/new (5/4.85) ?? Are those values got with 'software' or by actual measuring (software values tend to be erroneous sometimes..) Stability is VERY important, in your case that is propably the main reason.
--
About that XFX-card with 'purple' capacitors replaced with 'purple' I told in my last reply. I wonder those new were not EXACTLY the same model, but had capacitance value of 1200 uF instead of 560 uF (???). Maybe that had also significant effect..
Lol you got me wrong, they did not said I could RMA the card and probably never will. Why would they, so many other parts they can blame it on... :(Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
The thing is I paid good money for this card, tried really hard too fix it myself and when that didn't work out asked them very polity about it. All they did was give me some standard BS (not BSS ;)) answers.
So at the moment I just want to return the card. The problem is I put a Zalman cooler on the card so I have to carefully remove it and get my hands on some termo conducting tape afterwards. The good thing is the shop I bought it from was very interrested in this BSS 'thing'.
Do you know if the Asus 6800XT (or LE) has this problem? If not that ought to be very interesting.
Not sure about the old 5V values, if IIRC they were the same or worse, but 12V was about 11.9/8 stressed or not. I understood 12V was the main thing for these GPU's, that is incorrect? Everyting is measured in software, I just don't got the balls to attach a voltmeter to a running system ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
I hope you're wrong, because if it's not a manufactioring issue, RMA would be rather pointless wouldn't it.Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
Hi,
i got a better soldering iron, so i tried to fix the card again, but it doesnt seem to work, call of duty 2 is no problem, but bf vietnam crashes after a few seconds in the menu.
I removed the old capacitors and as much solder as possible and tried new ones (good ones), but they dont seem to work well.
I'll try to solder a big capacitor between tp9 and tp10 later, maybe this helps.
Any suggestions?
Thanks,
Sid
Sorry, I did not read so carefully ;) I think they SHOULD RMA the card and if they refuse you have allways right to RMA card to manufacturer !Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpion77
'Nice' service, but the same kind of 'service' has been seen also e.g. in FinlandQuote:
The thing is I paid good money for this card, tried really hard too fix it myself and when that didn't work out asked them very polity about it. All they did was give me some standard BS (not BSS ;)) answers.
Since they are even a little bit interesting, I think you might have change to RMA card (if they will ask XFX about 'black screen')Quote:
So at the moment I just want to return the card. The problem is I put a Zalman cooler on the card so I have to carefully remove it and get my hands on some termo conducting tape afterwards. The good thing is the shop I bought it from was very interrested in this BSS 'thing'.
ASUS 6800 LE is almost the same card as ASUS 6800 XT in respect of card design/layout, only the core differs (AFAIK). Therefore I am 99.99 % sure ASUS 6800 XT is BS-free.Quote:
Do you know if the Asus 6800XT (or LE) has this problem? If not that ought to be very interesting.
OK.. So it can not be verified if the REAL 5 V is higher with the new one.Quote:
Not sure about the old 5V values, if IIRC they were the same or worse, but 12V was about 11.9/8 stressed or not. I understood 12V was the main thing for these GPU's, that is incorrect? Everyting is measured in software, I just don't got the balls to attach a voltmeter to a running system ;)
About measuring: it demands balls (:toast:) only at the FIRST time your start playing with multimeter...
I think the 'BS-feature' is manufacturing issue (some kind of) for 99.999+ % sure. In fact the moderator of GW-forum somehow approved that (after I have asked it many times :D ). Some manufacturers (like GW and MSI) have different versions and some of those are working MUCH better (BS do not appear at least during ~ half/one year). The 'XFX-case' is much more mysterious: your case shows that there are QUITE NEW BS-affected XFX-cards !!!Quote:
I hope you're wrong, because if it's not a manufactioring issue, RMA would be rather pointless wouldn't it.
I could not find your foto about soldering (using 56k right now - too slow to check all posts :slobber:). I remember you were using old capacitors and the lenght of the leads was quite long (???).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidolin
Do you have now brand new capacitors ? Which series/model ? 'Not working very well now' = only those crashes (=BS??) or some other problems ??
I think adding extra capacitor does not help too much if the 'c143' and 'c136' capacitors are not properly connected (=some severe problems appearing even having good/new 'c143' and 'c136' capacitors)
FYI: I've seen a photo of a Asus 6800XT card with a LE chip and I know my XFX has a LE core too.
But tell me what is more important to these GPU's 5V or 12V? The new PSU I ordered yesterday can be considered highend and at least has seperated 12V rails for the MB and ' the rest'. I have lot' s of hardware (tvcard, IDE drive, 2x SATA, 2X DVD Writer, fancontroller, external USB IDE and lot' s of USB equipment) so that might explain why I have BSS and other not(?).
Yes :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SikaRippa
I didnt use brand new capacitors but some others i ripped off the radeon a few months/weeks ago i haven't used till now.
But today, after resoldering the two capacitors (i removed them, tried to remove some more solder, and then soldered them again checking all of the solder was melted and that their contacts are very near to the contacts on the board) and soldering a bigger capacitor to tp9/tp10 it seems to work, at least in Quake4/Cod2/Serious Sam.
I dont really want to test Battlefield Vietnam or too much overclocking since i'm satisfied with the stock frequencies and somehow i've got the feeling every blackscreen that happens is bad for the condition of the card.
Thanks for info, something like that I have already assumed: XT is only a new name for LEQuote:
scorpion77]FYI: I've seen a photo of a Asus 6800XT card with a LE chip and I know my XFX has a LE core too.
I forget to answer that one ;)Quote:
But tell me what is more important to these GPU's 5V or 12V? The new PSU I ordered yesterday can be considered highend and at least has seperated 12V rails for the MB and ' the rest'. I have lot' s of hardware (tvcard, IDE drive, 2x SATA, 2X DVD Writer, fancontroller, external USB IDE and lot' s of USB equipment) so that might explain why I have BSS and other not(?).
Regulator circuitry of 6800le/xt cards (GW/MSI/XFX/Leadtek/etc.) utilizes molex 5 V and 12 V lines for memory and GPU (core) voltage geneneration, respectively. Therefore, PSU you (already) ordered should be just fine for GPU, but the most problems (like BS) with this card are due to memory voltage generation (5 V line should be very stabile).
OK.. the problems you have been encountered are most likely related to soldering issues. Also the condition of the old/used capacitors might be poor, because all capacitors have limited life (not too long in the case of electrolytics).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidolin
Your card is now working well enough ?? BTW, I still have some extra replacement capacitors (PXA-series = very good), if interested just sent a PM :)
Hi,
i got the capacitors from SikaRippa a few minutes ago :)
Soldering was no big problem this time, everything worked pretty fast, here are some pictures:
http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9...00706gg.th.jpg
(old capacitors unsoldered)
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/8...00710mt.th.jpg
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/9...00728lk.th.jpg
I haven't tested it much by now, but it seems to work fine since i was able to play bf:vietnam with 300/740 for some minutes. Maybe even some more overclocking is possible, but somehow 3dmark doesnt install so i have to try this later. I'm also going to test ut2004 with linux later, but i think i will be no problem.
:banana:
Sid