OCCT 3.1.0 shows HD4870/4890 design flaw - they can't handle the new GPU test !

Tetedeiench excellent work on this issue, i have one question though, is there a way to generate even more load on the gpu than occt currently does? or is the current occt test the best way to get maximum stress on the gpu?

reason i ask is that when i do overclocking on my cards or any hardware i find its always best to run the most stressful tester there is since it makes fault finding take less time.

so is occt the gpu equivalent of linpak? or is it still possible to get even more stress created?
thanks

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Originally Posted by LordEC911

Hey look at that...
The experts basically said what I have been saying all along.

GJ Tet.

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: First time in a while that I actually laughed out loud while reading a forum :up:

After reading approx. 1/5 of the posts, I have given up reading all of them, but what I have seen is, that many people say the same: For my use, this is no problem, so WTF, who cares!

My opinion on the other hand, as an Engineer, is totally different.
If you can use software to stress the hardware so much, that it can't take the beating, then the producer has made a design flaw.

What good is it to have a V8 twin turbo engine, if the darn thing cannot get any air to the turbo's, and thus want get enough combustion air? No good.
This is the same that OCCT is doing: Pedal to the metal, but hey, there is not enough air, so the engine will become flooded, and dies.

Major problem this OCP, but maybe the guys at DAAMIT has done it nowing the problem, since there plans was to send out 4970 as an overclocked 4870, and thus limmiting the end consumer in making that clock them self.

Ok I think my issue was different because, I just pulled off my sinks on the little things behind the big things?


I copied this pic from here so bear with me here but I am referring to the smaller of the five chips that are circled here. Part of, one of them came off with my sink. Not to much but, I didn't dare plug it in again.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9339/4870h.jpg


I will be hitting up Microcenter this week for a swap it looks like. I didn't even touch my other one yet. I was scared :p:.

once again

i love nvidia =)

I swear there are so many horrable car analogies in this it's rediculous and I laugh every time.

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Originally Posted by xlazyx

once again

i love nvidia =)

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Is that because the fastest nV card is much slower than a HD4870 in this benchmark?

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Originally Posted by largon

Is that because the fastest nV card is much slower than a HD4870 in this benchmark?

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he probably likes his nvidia cards since they dont crash in this benchmark. :p:

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

the 4870 reference cards crash in intensive games like crysis, crysis warhead, unreal 3 gta 4
it depends on shader complexity used in the scene resolution AA AF applied core and memory clocks
heat can make the problem even worse because you don't need to reach 83A as the vrm's get get hotter the limit goes down ,i made my card crash in OCCT gpu test 600X400 window shader complexity 0 when it spiked repeatedly to about 78 A
idk if there is such a thing as vrm aging but that could make the things even worse.
crysis default gpu benchmark reaches about 60 A on 1600x1200 (default clocks) and more shader intensive scenes like the battle on the boat get the vrm's even hotter and combined with even higher vrma load end up crashing the card ---i have experienced this a few times .

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this makes me wonder now about my old ati card. i always blamed ati drivers for being crap and unstable, now im beginning to wonder if it was the weak voltage regulation and not the drivers.

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Originally Posted by BababooeyHTJ

I swear there are so many horrable car analogies in this it's rediculous and I laugh every time.

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Haha, yeah, no kidding. I'm no engineer, but to me, this program crashing some of the cards in question, is more like trying to take your V8 twin turbo engine, and put it in an airplane. Why? Well, because we can, and people may someday want their cars to fly, so they should be prepared and able to do that if the need arises. I think it is just as valid as most car analogies.

AMD developed a great GPU (probably spent a lot of money doing so) i mean look how easy it is to code for it and how fast it can be made to use all of the 800 shaders (Tetedeiench said he didn't do anything that special in the code ) but the guys who designed the pcb decided to cut corners to make an extra buck and hoped that none would find out. Now we know why all the vendors offer non reference cards with redesigned pcb's.
I would have gladly payed the 10-20 $ for a extra vrm chip to make shore my card can handle anything.
I fell like i've been scammed and i have lost my confidence in AMD because of that .
Shame on you PCB design team shame on you.

what makes things even worse is that recently amd lashed out at i believe palit/gainward for making non reference design cards that had more voltage regulation phases on them because they didnt wait for the main tiers of ati cards like sapphire etc to bring out thier non reference design boards first. bad amd.

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Originally Posted by Cyber-Mav

this makes me wonder now about my old ati card. i always blamed ati drivers for being crap and unstable, now im beginning to wonder if it was the weak voltage regulation and not the drivers.

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My 3x 3870 OCed run the test just fine. :D

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

AMD developed a great GPU (probably spent a lot of money doing so) i mean look how easy it is to code for it and how fast it can be made to use all of the 800 shaders (Tetedeiench said he didn't do anything that special in the code ) but the guys who designed the pcb decided to cut corners to make an extra buck and hoped that none would find out. Now we know why all the vendors offer non reference cards with redesigned pcb's.
I would have gladly payed the 10-20 $ for a extra vrm chip to make shore my card can handle anything.
I fell like i've been scammed and i have lost my confidence in AMD because of that .
Shame on you PCB design team shame on you.

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I haven't lost my confidence in ATI/AMD due to this. I will most likely buy the new x2 when it comes out.

LordEC, I guess you're right about the power-virus thing.

"Even if the problem appearing is very unlikely, nothing tell it won't happen again. And this is a door open to viruses and such malicious softwares."

"AMD indicates that this problem will be fixed in later GPUs."

Quoted by the French reviewer, Translated by Tetedeiench

Meaning, it is possible for others to create "power-virus" programs that boot when windows is loaded, for a result of kee-rash!!! Those with NV cards probably do not have to worry! :D And also those who buy future ATI cards wont have to worry either.

(Hey, I'm not opening a can-o-worms here, if you try to turn this into a chat-zoo of debate, then it's you who opened it.)

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

AMD developed a great GPU (probably spent a lot of money doing so) i mean look how easy it is to code for it and how fast it can be made to use all of the 800 shaders (Tetedeiench said he didn't do anything that special in the code ) but the guys who designed the pcb decided to cut corners to make an extra buck and hoped that none would find out. Now we know why all the vendors offer non reference cards with redesigned pcb's.
I would have gladly payed the 10-20 $ for a extra vrm chip to make shore my card can handle anything.
I fell like i've been scammed and i have lost my confidence in AMD because of that .
Shame on you PCB design team shame on you.

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lol .... scammed HAHA.....
you do realize they DIDN'T do this on purpose...
It was an accident...

even the OP said he's sure if he got the right calculations for Nvidia's card's they probably will do the same thing.... so don't feel scammed as that's just stupid....

they made an error in having the OCP trigger from the Vrm's instead of the Core.... hardly a bad thing...
especially the only way your going to get this problem is to use the program...

which whats the point.... doesn't happen during folding or games.... soo its just you being petty about it to "loose confidence". -sigh-

A car analogy posted my member on another forum.

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Originally Posted by layte View Post
Probably because the only time you actually can load the GPU up in such a fashion is using an artificial tool that has no baring on any real world situation. I hate to use a car analogy, but if I sat my car in neutral and kept my foot on the accelerator something would fail sooner rather than later, why did they make a car that the user is not allowed to use at 100%. A similar situation to what we have here.

It could be worse, the GPU's could melt themselves instead of just failing.

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Originally Posted by Bo_Fox

LordEC, I guess you're right about the power-virus thing.

"Even if the problem appearing is very unlikely, nothing tell it won't happen again. And this is a door open to viruses and such malicious softwares."

"AMD indicates that this problem will be fixed in later GPUs."

Quoted by the French reviewer, Translated by Tetedeiench

Meaning, it is possible for others to create "power-virus" programs that boot when windows is loaded, for a result of kee-rash!!! Those with NV cards probably do not have to worry! :D And also those who buy future ATI cards wont have to worry either.

(Hey, I'm not opening a can-o-worms here, if you try to turn this into a chat-zoo of debate, then it's you who opened it.)

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They didn't say anything about OCCT being a power virus, as LordEC911 did. They are saying that malware could take advantage of the issue, not that OCCT is an example of malware.

Heck, I just hope the code he is working on now, that might let us Nvidia boys get a few more FPS is successful. :)

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Originally Posted by Final8ty

A car analogy posted my member on another forum.

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worst analogy ever..

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Originally Posted by STEvil

worst analogy ever..

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A little more explanation would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004

lol .... scammed HAHA.....
you do realize they DIDN'T do this on purpose...
It was an accident...

even the OP said he's sure if he got the right calculations for Nvidia's card's they probably will do the same thing.... so don't feel scammed as that's just stupid....

they made an error in having the OCP trigger from the Vrm's instead of the Core.... hardly a bad thing...
especially the only way your going to get this problem is to use the program...

which whats the point.... doesn't happen during folding or games.... soo its just you being petty about it to "loose confidence". -sigh-

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you should read my other posts
this does happen in games with my card and i have found no other explication.

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

you should read my other posts
this does happen in games with my card and i have found no other explication.

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You could just have an outright faulty card.

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

you should read my other posts
this does happen in games with my card and i have found no other explication.

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Then there is probably something else wrong.

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Originally Posted by bluedevil

you should read my other posts
this does happen in games with my card and i have found no other explication.

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must be very specific. when you were running the game that did this to you were you monitoring the gpu current pull at the time? what did it peak at?