I couldn't but thank you for providing us with first hand info and not pulling a Obnoxious Bullsh*tter Return on us :clap::up:Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyz
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I couldn't but thank you for providing us with first hand info and not pulling a Obnoxious Bullsh*tter Return on us :clap::up:Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyz
Thanks for all the time and effort you are putting in regarding your 4850 jimmyz:clap:
I will be changing my 3850 to a 4850 so all this input is nothing but useful.I only have a 1440x900 monitor,so my games will fly with a 4850.:p:
some thoughts...
Quote:
~P11.918 HD4850 XFire ( 320 euro ~)
~P10.802 GTX-280 ( 500 euro ~)
~ P8749 9800GX2
~ P7890 GTX-260 (400 euro circa )
~ P7400 (media) HD4850 ( 160 euro ~)
~ P7174 3870X2
~ P5549 9800GTX
(
http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7860.html
http://publish.it168.com/2008/0611/images/1040472.jpg
)
cross fire is +61,2% than single gpu
so... 4870 (+30% on 4850) and R700 (~+60% *al least*
on 4870)->
P24.781 R700 XFire ( ~1200 euro? )
P15.500 HD4870 XFire* ( ~ 640 euro )
P15.392 R700 (~600 euro?)
P11.918 HD4850 XFire ( ~320 euro )
P10.802 GTX-280 ( ~500 euro )
P9620 HD4870* ( ~320 euro )
P8749 9800GX2
P7890 GTX-260 (~400 euro )
P7400 (media) HD4850 ( ~160 euro )
P7174 3870X2
P5549 9800GTX
speed/price
46.2 HD4850
37.2 HD4850 XFire
--- --- --- --- --- ---
30.0 HD4870
25.6 R700
24.2 HD4870 XFire
--- --- --- --- --- ---
21.6 GTX-280
20.6 R700 XFire
19.7 GTX-260
Looks good, but I disagree on the 4870 xfire vs 4870x2 results, the r700 will be faster for multiple reasons than regular 4870 xfire, so you might want to change that
I'm guessing my 700W PSU would be more than enough to power two 4850s in Xfire, no?
good guessQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr.X
Thinking the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Surely shared memory alone would be an improvement over 2 single cards.:eleph:
Just making sure. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by natty
If the HD4850 really ends up faster than a 9800GTX and cheaper than a 8800GT, all while being a single slot card with just one 6-pin connector I'll be a happy camper! :D
You would think that shared mem would lend to greater results but I also think it is all of to driver support. I have seen some reviews of the 3870 X2 vs 3870 crossfire and the crossfire squeaks by slightly. Why?, only thing I can figure is drivers.Quote:
Surely shared memory alone would be an improvement over 2 single cards.
that won't happen, if ati wants to make money, there's no way they are going to sell the 4850 under the 8800gt, which is as low as $160 these days for the stock model. However it will undercut the 9800gtx while outperforming itQuote:
Originally Posted by Mr.X
Sorry, I meant the 8800GTS.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
probably won't happen, as it outperforms the 9800gtx, and the 8800gts goes down to as low as $200. Besides once the 4850 and 4870 are launched the price will futher drop to my guess around ~$175 or so, possibly less
The lowest price for the 8800GTS here is 165E and the HD4850 will be priced at around 160E (as I've heard). So, it will be cheaper or at least similarly priced as the 8800GTS (before any price drops that is).Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Anyway, what I'm really excited about is the fact that it will perform great while being a single slot card (so I won't have to remove the fan from my MB's HS) and will only require one 6-pin connector which means I could easily get a second one down the road as my PSU only has two 6-pin connectors.
Perhaps the US just gets cheaper prices as a whole, but check newegg.com if you don't believe me (US's largest etailer, probably one of the largest in the world)
We all know the US gets everything cheaper, no need to rub it in our faces! :p:
Actually the 8800GT can be had for as little as $130 w/MIR(US)... But I digress, it will certainly stifle 9800gtx sales. Nvidia needs G92b and they need great yields too(die shrink + good yields = significantly reduced costs). I've heard (unconfirmed rumors) that they made some minor core changes(more ROPs ect) to go along with the die shrink. The 8800GT and 9800GTX need to be EOL'd and G92b in it's various incarnations needs to make it into the market. Otherwise Nvidia is in for a savage beating in the $200-$350 price range.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
I think the shared memory will be a huge boon to performance. It's just depressing that we have to wait till August to buy the 4870x2.Quote:
You would think that shared mem would lend to greater results but I also think it is all of to driver support.
There's no proof on shared memory yet, is there?
nope there isn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ToTTenTranz
Just everyone hopes, but personaly i dont think it will be anything else than a regular X2.
If something changes better for everyone. :)
Why does everyone think shared memory? The 4870X2 cooler looks identical to the 3870X2
Also what is the R700? O_O
R700 = 2xRV770 on one card, just like R680=2xRV670
No bridge chip last I checked hence all the speculation ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by oohms
8800 GT 512 MB is priced around 200-230 US$ in my country, 8800 GTS is around 270-300 US$, and 9800 GTX is around 320-380 US$, so the launch price of HD 4850 @220 US$ is very promising for ATi in Indonesia. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
My guess is that the original R700, the R700 that was planned about 3-4 years ago was scrapped and will probably appear later. People are still using that codename though, but they usually mean an RV770X2 by that. So I don't completely agree with R700 being 2x RV770.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hornet331
Also I don't think we will see shared memory on RV770X2 (or R780 whatever you would like to call it), probably just a beefed up bus to communicate between the 2 chips although this might just be a PCIe gen 2 bridge chip. Hopefully something a little better than that though, but that's probably not very realistic.
Where did you check that? There has not been any information regarding RV770X2. One picture about what was probably the cooler for such a card, but no other information. This cooler did have the imprint of a bridge chip, so it was either real and RV770X2 has a bridge chip, or that cooler was some other prototype for R680.Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyNV
EDIT: regarding retail prices for the 4850: There were some folks on Dutch forums that had contacts with the suppliers/distribution points of these cards and they said that 4850 is being sold there for €130,- excluding tax/VAT/BTW. These are the prices that retailers pay them for the cards, so you have to ad taxes and margins for the retailers on top of this to get retail prices and these are just the initial prices so they might drop a little over time. Some retailers already had the cards up for pre-order for around €187 and then they are making quite huge margins, price gauging in other words. The 4850 will end up around the price of a 8800GTS 512MB around here.
you aren't taking into account that if the 8800gt is $50 more there, than you should expect the 4850 to be roughly $75-$100 more there at launch, then drop to being $40-$50 moreQuote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
the price for HD4850 at launch is very low! It's the same of the GEFORCE 8800GT but RV770 PRO score the same as 9800GTX that have a price of 300+$
In Italy for example geforce 8800gt is priced about 140€ while geforce 9800gtx 230€. The first shop that have radeon hd4850 have a price of 175€.
I hope that the price of hd4870 is lower as 4850, too! :)
seems notQuote:
Originally Posted by Errik89
I see prices around 320€ for the 4870 :down:
seems that the best performances/price here is 4850 and 4850 Crossfire :up:
Mate, i'm sorry if my post is rather unclear, but the card IS already in distribution aka being sold in my country for 220 US$, so that is THE FACTO launch price for this particular card in my country, clearly undercutting some of the most expensive 8800 GT (the factory preOCed edition), 8800 GTS, and 9800 GTX. But i do expect some price cut from the nVidia's distros soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by AliG
Nevertheless, this is a good effort from ATi distros here, since in the GD 3870 launch, they had made many ATi fanATics disappointed by overpricing them considerably, relatively compared to other countries price for RV670 card at that time. In December, i decided to go for the cheapest 8800 GT 512 MB at that time, since the cheapest HD 3870 was actually slightly more expensive compared to the one that i bought back then.
But 349$ is about 230€. I should expect hd4870 to come first at 250-260€ maximum.
damn nice, that might mean the US will be even lessQuote:
Originally Posted by spursindonesia
agree. I think that the price are about that, but probably for the first week (cause shortage of gddr5 chip) the price could be higher (i presume about 300€ in europe).Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius_pt
Can someone check to see if European sites have the 4850 up. Ty.
Perkam
I've seen some shop in france and netherlands and now there are also some italian shops. No one already have the vga but in anyone it can be ordered.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I've only seen so far pre-ordering for the hd4850.
Mainly Sapphire 4850 is for pre-order. Cheapest I saw was 160 Euro thus far. Asus 4850 is at one shop as well, for around 160 Euro as well.
No signs of 4870's though.
Cant wait to get my hands on a 4870 CFX, do a little Vmod with pencil and run it just like my 3870's, 900Mhz:cool:... Well, if this core will yield the same of course:p:
Here in Portugal a shop has already revealed they will be selling it about 175/180€ :)
Cool, I'm excited.
This is why I love crossfire more than SLI. I get to keep the older videocard as a slave while the new one as the master. T.T
The 4870 will premiere in Europe for around 260 Euros from the differences I can see in the 4850 prices.
Therefore, two of them should end up cheaper than a GTX 280. Though that is good news in some ways, people who have SLI mobos will stick with a one card solution and may go for 2x GTX 280 or 260 which is power that ATI will not be able to match until the 4870X2 (aka R700) arrives.
Perkam
doesnt "work" like that !Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius_pt
in europe you have Taxes , etc , etc
regards
I have an SLI motherboard and am selling it to switch back to a Crossfire one, myself... :D. 2x 4850 or if they come cheaper than expected 4870 (have 4850s on order right now) should hopefully be less expensive/perform better than a 260 at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
In benchmarks two 4850s should exceed the GTX 280 :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
Perkam
So I said it should come aroud 250-260€. :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by mascaras
More like around 300€ in some shops :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Genius_pt
The 4870 GDDR5 Super-Overclocked version maybe :)Quote:
Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR
Most should settle around the 265 area. Heck there will be 600 Euro GTX 280 cards too, so the need for two 4870s to be faster than a single GTX 280 will remain, and vice versa :)
Perkam
what about games? time will tell on this one. the HD4850's should be faster than the GTX280 but the 512mb on the 4850 concerns me considering i have seen games use more than 512mb already. i suspect the Crossfire HD4850 will win at lower resolutions and with lower AA levels. but crank that AA and the resolutions and maybe some AF and the GTX 280 should come out on top. but for the Price the HD4850's are going to be very attractive.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
2x 4850 = 1GB GDDR3, GTX 280 = 1GB GDDR3 :)Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
Perkam
Yep, I think HD4800 cards with 1GB will make more sense for crossfire, even if the memory is slower.
Haha that was good. In two or three weeks we'll talk again :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
How will the 2x 4850 vs 4870X2 be ?, if 4850 CF is faster then single 4870X2. I will sell my board and get a DFI LT X48.
But I guess it wont be faster.
4870x2 should be *slightly* faster than two 4870s in CF, and blow away the 4850. It also has a decent chance of not suffering from micro stuttering because of how it is designed. (Uses shared memory instead of a bridge according to reports.) It will be a long time though before many games run at low enough FPS on 4870s in CF for the stuttering to be noticeable. Unless of course you are running at like 1900xsomething.
I'm a bit worried about the power consumption though, 3870X2 is already at 200+W @ load, you'd expect 4870X2 to consume moreQuote:
Originally Posted by DarkDisciple
Yes, but also don't forget the core will probably be lower clocked (I mean the 4870 has more shaders than the 3870x2), and also the bridge chip will be shrunk down to 55nm, so it will consume more, but it will offer more power:power consumed than the 3870x2 imo (don't forget about the architecture improvements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by [XC] hipno650
You guys really think the GDDR5 will make a huge differrence? The memory capacity I could see, but is the 4850 that bottlenecked? The 4850/4870 are identical but for the RAM and stock clocks as I understand it?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkDisciple
yep, identical but mems speeds and core clock.
Definitely the 4850 is going to be bottlenecked at the higher clocks, we're talking 800 shaders, the 2900xt might not have needed the bandwidth it had, but the 4850 will, that's the only explanation we have for how the 4870 will be 30% faster
When you overclock your card you see a difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkDisciple
source???
regards
Then you are on the wrong forums, my friend. :yepp:Quote:
Originally Posted by waver_01
This may be better suited for your needs:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/
Well put :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
Perkam
HD 4850 is way faster than HD 3870 in benchmarks, yet it consumes less power.Quote:
Originally Posted by waver_01
HD 4870 will consume just a bit more power than the 3870; the 4870 X2 will likely consume just a bit more than the 3870 X2. This time around 8 pin will likely be required, like on GTX 280 / 9800GX2. But I don't think power consumption will go up by much. Especially since 3870 X2 uses 1GB of GDDR3, 4870 X2 uses 1GB of GDDR5. Memory probably doesn't mean much, but it should make a small difference.
If the clocks end up being 775Mhz with 3.6ghz RAM, it will make an overall noticeable difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extelleron
But the real reason people will buy the 4870 will be headroom. The 4850 will need voltmods or water to go beyond 725/2200, while the 4870 should scale to 825/4200 with ease.
Perkam
No you guys are way too cool, I'll stay here :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
That's no wonder with all the LN2 action over here :p:Quote:
Originally Posted by waver_01
Where are y'all getting the hard facts on the 4870 / 4870X2 from? Is this shared memory rumor still going around :rolleyes: I'd like to know the 'multiple' reasons that the X2 will end up faster than 2 4870's in CF, all reasonable expectation and past experience (3870X2) says the opposite.
Yeah, though unless DAAMIT have managed to overcome a basic limitation of these solutions you will still have 512mb of usable memory (frame buffer) on the crossfire setup, and also half the bus width of the 280.Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
There are no facts on this, these are just some remnants of what R700 was supposed to be. R700 was supposed to be a single chip that would fill in the low-end, mainstream and high-end market all at the same time. This would be done by just putting more of these chips on the same board, 1 chip would be for low-end, 2 chips for mainstream, 3 for performance and 4 for enthusiast. These were the plans for R700, at least the way ATI said it would be for R700, but this was about 3 years ago if not longer. This R700 has been scrapped, it might turn up later no-one knows, but you need these chips to cooperate properly and this will basically mean there will be shared memory (and more, more like each chip being a ring stop on the ring bus). The rumours of RV770X2 having shared memory stem from these early indications of what R700 was going to be and there are still hopes of this being true. Only AMD know though....Quote:
Originally Posted by Xello
This is so frustrating! I just wanna be cryogenically frozen for 2 weeks and wake up to a review from a reputable site that compares:
4870
4850
GTX 260
9800 GTX
8800GT
/me sets alarm clock
:up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Helmore
Indeed, just reading more than a few posts with people talking as though there are.
Why would you need a voltmod for an ati-card?Quote:
Originally Posted by perkam
I don't know if these cards will support voltage increases via software. HD 2900 did I believe, but HD 3800 did not. ATI used to allow it, but perhaps AMD has other ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuthalu
Also ATi Tool would have to be updated to support it, AFAIK that's the only software that changes GPU voltage, right? You could edit the BIOS I suppose.
OK, so release date for these are June 25th??? for both 4870/50
i guess those rumors about it hitting 1ghz on air were lies :(
Nobody has really overclocked a HD 4850 yet as the only app supporting it is CCC and it only allows up to 700MHz core. Jimmyz says it hits 700MHz without any problem. 1GHz is probably far fetched, but I would think 750-800MHz would not be out of the question. For the 4870, maybe 900MHz+ will be a possibility.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papu
I think the 1 Ghz rumours came from people trying to reverse engineering the claimed flop counts based on only 480 shaders.
been there done that..this is an automated response.Quote:
Originally Posted by conzymaher
buzz click
:D
One thing i'm slightly confused about....it looks to me like the shader speed is the same as the core clock, is this the case, or are the shaders in a separate clock domain now?
Thats the most plausible explanation I've heard so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by MpG
The 1050 core clock was mixed up with the shaders. It was in another language and someone saw 1050mhz and thought that was the core. Core is 850, shaders are 1050. 1000+ shouldnt be too hard though, seing as it has two power plugs at 75w each, plus the 75w from the mobo, so its getting plenty of power. Just need some good cooling, maybe a v-mod.
No hard feelings. :) Oh, guys, first official shots of the 4870X2 have emerged!!! See here:Quote:
Originally Posted by waver_01
http://img249.imageshack.us/img249/2...intowerog1.jpg
lol.
That's cruel yet funny :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
Perkam
yeah thats cruel how it's so life-threatening to your poor computer!
chasing dust bunnies no doubt!:rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
Terrible ca(t)ble management :shakes:Quote:
Originally Posted by 003
Can someone please tell me the specs of the 4850, the 4870 and the 4870x2(are they out yet?)? There is too much info on this thread and it will be hard to search all these pages. Thanks
Both HD 4850 & HD 4870:Quote:
Originally Posted by Isaac MM
-RV770 Core (55nm)
-800 stream processors
-32 TMU / 16 ROP
-256 Bit Memory Bus
HD 4850:
-625MHz Core
-512MB GDDR3 @ 2000MHz
HD 4870:
-750MHz Core
-512MB GDDR5 @ 3600MHz
HD 4870 X2
-???MHz Core
-1024MB GDDR5 @ ????MHz
No,Quote:
Originally Posted by Xello
if you say that the data is doubled in the two banks of 512 MB each, then you can think about the two 256 bit bus as one 512 bit bus
No, you can't... it is simply copied individually per-chip across its own individual 256-bit bus to its own bank of 512MB, there is no intercommunication that combines the bandwidths.Quote:
Originally Posted by ORBR
why don'tQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
in AFR one bus is used fully with frame A, another with frame B
so why can't I consider this as powerful as one wide bus? ;)
there's no need for intercommunication between the two chip
Yes, but the exact same data is copied on each 256-bit bus, therefore it is not seperate and able to be "added together" and considered a "one wide bus".Quote:
Originally Posted by ORBR
this is false my friendQuote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
each chip write different data on its bus, and you're sure they read the same ONLY if they work on the same (doubled in each memory bank) framebuffer
with AFR they can read slight different assets
and with crossfire you have doubled not only bus and shaders, but buffers TOO, making the way the bus works more efficient
finally I can consider two 256 bit bus as powerful as one 512 bit bus ;)
I HIGHLY suggest you educate yourself before posting such claims that are technically impossible. What you describe is a shared architecture, not a CrossFire/SLI setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by ORBR
fell free to explain and to post evidence before tell at the people "to educate"Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger
thanks
I think what he is saying is that the 2 cards each have their own 256 bit bus, but because each card is working on its own workload it effectively becomes 512 bits of memory bandwidth.
(Not that its the way i would explain it.)
HD 4870 X2
-775MHz Core
-1024MB GDDR5 @ 3800MHz - 3900MHZ
HD 4850 X2
-600 - 625MHZ core
-1024MB GDDR3 @ 2000MHZ - 2100MHZ
what are you talking about? r700?? :welcome:
hey taof welcome to XS!
yeah its teh rv700
In a perfect world, maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by ORBR
You see, both GPU's have to store the same information, EVEN IF IT'S AFR mode! Why? Because 99% chance says Frames 1,3,5,7,9, and 11 have 90% the same information(textures, shaders, etc) as 2,4,6,8,10, and 12.
You see, when you run multiple cards, both cards must have all the information in their individual memory banks, as both cards are likely to be showing the same textures as one another, as well as the same shaders. As such, you're effectively doubling the same exact info in both physical memory, as well as using the memory bandwidth of both cards to perform identical tasks. Seeing as how they can't share the same information from the same set of ram, they're effectively doing the same job twice.
As such, it's the same as a single 256bit memory bus, and a single set of 512mb of ram. That's why most stores make sure to specify 256bit x2 and 512mb x2. 2x256bit doesn't equal 512bit. ;)
Sadly in many cases with marketing, the 9800GX2 and 3870X2 are labeled as 1GB 512bit cards. Like you said, most online stores aren't so ignorant but the actual board makers themselves are guilty of this on their own boxes, which I find quite amusing. Obviously it sounds better than just 512x2 but its somewhat dishonest. The funny thing though is the people who buy these cards are usually the people who would know better and aren't impulse buyers ( and usually consumers who've done their research; people don't tend to impulse buy $500-600 video cards without knowing much about them ;) ) Good old marketing departments for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DilTech
I forgot there will still be 4850X2s as well. Those may turn out to be quite attractive options.
vrzone :
http://forums.vr-zone.com/showthread.php?t=289000
seems fake : 480SP