6800le 'Black Screen' - The Complete Guide: Identification, modification and reason

SikaRippa
i discovered that this capacitor case size is 0402. 0402 is smaller than 0603(0603 is next from 0402). Then i found the table of chip capacitor where is a dependence of capacity on the size. The max capacity of 0603 is approximately 0,22uF. Then i buy capacitor 47nF(i think approximately max for the 0402) and soldered it.
After that my VGA(unblocked 16x1,6vp) works fine with 100% stability and no BS. C136, C143: 49 470 6E. To videocard a year. But it is necessary even more test...
I have asked my friend to measure value of C501(soldered) and his MM show 25nF.
Maybe this solve to remove BS?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LLIaJLyH

SikaRippa
i discovered that this capacitor case size is 0402. 0402 is smaller than 0603(0603 is next from 0402). Then i found the table of chip capacitor where is a dependence of capacity on the size. The max capacity of 0603 is approximately 0,22uF. Then i buy capacitor 47nF(i think approximately max for the 0402) and soldered it.
After that my VGA(unblocked 16x1,6vp) works fine with 100% stability and no BS. C136, C143: 49 470 6E. To videocard a year. But it is necessary even more test...
I have asked my friend to measure value of C501(soldered) and his MM show 25nF.
Maybe this solve to remove BS?!

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Good investigations & mod ! Yes it is '0402' size and the maximum value is propably quite small. In fact there exist capacitors up to 1uF available in 0402 package but the price is extremely high (=manufacturers do NOT use such components if ANY space left on PCB).

As I explained earlier the capacitance value I got was 17 nF, which is quite near to 25 nF (difference propably due to different meter). BUT due to parasitic other components (see carefully my previous post) the value in the meter is NOT capacitance value of C501.

Anyway, when having good performance with 47 nF I think no need to test other values again :) Do you have still extra capacitor ??

First i think need to solder out original C501 and measure value. To compare with 47nF. Then to solder 47nF or it is more value on BS affected card to test. I can`t, because i don`t know my VGA BS affected or not...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LLIaJLyH

First i think need to solder out original C501 and measure value. To compare with 47nF. Then to solder 47nF or it is more value on BS affected card to test. I can`t, because i don`t know my VGA BS affected or not...

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Sorry took little time to answer.. (forum was down few days?)

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Yep, removing C501 and measuring would give accurate value. I am hoping to get/obtain some day a burn (or almost burn) 6800le-card to rip-off/measure ALL relevant (and even unrelevant :D) components.

I am quite sure the BS your got was very similar to 'standard' BS. The more I thought your explanation the more clear the case showed out: BS is 'feature' caused by faulty over current (=low level voltage) protection of the regulator. Vcore part of the regulator is much better designed and therefore BS is not occured under NORMAL conditions. Having C501 ripped off (=worse performance at high power level) the case is different and also Vcore circuit is vulnerable to BS..

If I change the 2 green capacitors with the capacitors from the attached photo
(23 1500 6A) from an old gf4 ti, will the 6800LE overclock higher than with the green caps ?
(I have the AGP albatron 6800LE 128MB ram)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by santong7

If I change the 2 green capacitors with the capacitors from the attached photo
(23 1500 6A) from an old gf4 ti, will the 6800LE overclock higher than with the green caps ?
(I have the AGP albatron 6800LE 128MB ram)

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Hi santong7,

Sorry took little bit to answer..

Short answer is: most likely no, propably performance would be worse than before !

The reason for this comment is that I suppose those capacitors are not suitable/better than original 'green' capacitors. I do not know what series those are (I suppose 'CV-AX' by Sanyo), but allmost all capacitors are not BETTER that original 'green' capacitors (as far they are not yet ruined). There are only a few recommended replacement capacitors available, here comes a short list:

- Chemi-con "PXA", PXH", "PXE" ( "PXE" is the best !!)
- Sanyo "SVP"
- Panasonic "WA" (not manufactured any more)
- NIC COMPONENTS CORP "NSP"
- Vishay "94SVP"
- Hitano "EVS"

.. and capacitor in the foto is not any of those (AFAIK).

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Some questions:

- Do you have any (black screen) problems now ?
- What is your maximum OC'ing frequency for memories and is it limited by 'black screen' ?
- What labels you have top of the 'green' capacitors ?

Recently I purchased some capacitors to test them in С501. I found optimal range 100-220nF. If value less than 100nF, VGA gives audio noise. If value more than 220nF, VGA gives low freq audio noise(crash audio). Unfortunately i purchased only 100,150,220nF capacitors. So I soldered 150nF, and my VGA does not give out sound noise even when scroll in IE and NO BS. But may be 150nF not optimal value... It is necessary to test more values from 100-220nF range. Who can test it on BS affected VGA? :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LLIaJLyH

Recently I purchased some capacitors to test them in С501. I found optimal range 100-220nF. If value less than 100nF, VGA gives audio noise. If value more than 220nF, VGA gives low freq audio noise(crash audio). Unfortunately i purchased only 100,150,220nF capacitors. So I soldered 150nF, and my VGA does not give out sound noise even when scroll in IE and NO BS. But may be 150nF not optimal value... It is necessary to test more values from 100-220nF range. Who can test it on BS affected VGA? :)

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Very nice experiments :up:

The VGA did not crash/shutdown/BS (=audio was only problem) with all those values, correct ? Since, all (?) 6800le cards have some audio *issues* the stock value might be wrong/unoptimal e.g. 270 uF as I assumed earlier. Therefore, noisy audio might be removed/minimised considerably by changing C501 no matter BS-affected card or not.

I agree, it would be very usefull to make that mod also to BS-affected card..

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Anybody have/know were to find a 6800le-card with following specs:

- (Completely) BS-affected at stock frequencies
- Still working in some extent (expect BS)
- Moderately cheap

.. I might be interesting to buy (or possibly repair IF I am allowed to test some little risky modifications before hand).

Please, send PM if interested :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Hi santong7,

Sorry took little bit to answer..

Short answer is: most likely no, propably performance would be worse than before !

The reason for this comment is that I suppose those capacitors are not suitable/better than original 'green' capacitors. I do not know what series those are (I suppose 'CV-AX' by Sanyo), but allmost all capacitors are not BETTER that original 'green' capacitors (as far they are not yet ruined). There are only a few recommended replacement capacitors available, here comes a short list:

- Chemi-con "PXA", PXH", "PXE" ( "PXE" is the best !!)
- Sanyo "SVP"
- Panasonic "WA" (not manufactured any more)
- NIC COMPONENTS CORP "NSP"
- Vishay "94SVP"
- Hitano "EVS"

.. and capacitor in the foto is not any of those (AFAIK).

--

Some questions:

- Do you have any (black screen) problems now ?
- What is your maximum OC'ing frequency for memories and is it limited by 'black screen' ?
- What labels you have top of the 'green' capacitors ?

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I haven't changed the capacitors.
I have not found any BS probs.
I haven't overclocked it yet just unlocked it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by santong7

I haven't changed the capacitors.
I have not found any BS probs.
I haven't overclocked it yet just unlocked it

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OK.. in that case I do not recommend replacing capacitors. However, adding a capacitor between TP9-TP10 COULD give some boost to OC-capability (and/or Vmodding :) )

Capacitor labels of my card :
41/470/6E
45/470/6E

I don't have audio noises on the soundcard output.

However, the vga card itself has some mechanical resonance in some (rare) occasions. I can reproduce this by opening a dos box and do a "dir /s". Perhaps some componentents should be fixed with some silicone-paste or something. I haven't found out which components make the noises.

I have a Gainward 6800 GS 128MB AGP. It recently crashed while running and now the whole computer will not start with the card in the machine. I tried other power supplies. I tried replacing the green caps and a few of the purple caps with replacements but I'm still getting the same problem. Do you think it could be something to do with the ISL6534 chip or would it be something else??

i've installed aditional capacitor with 3300uf, 10v, and i don't have black screen in 3dmark06 at 750mhz, but i have it at 775... my core is 440mhz at 1.5v with zalman fs-v7 fatality cooler, but i 3dmark05 has passed all tests with 440/860 without artifacts and i've score 5135 (drivers set to perfomance)... before extra capacitor, i have black screen at stock speed 300/700...i have gainward 6800le 128mb agp made in taiwan with green caps 43 470 6e.... i've noticed that quake3arena is the most efective to black screen when i run timedemo1 with demo001... do you have any advice how to remove black screen at all? what else can i do with my card? thank you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlovrek

i've installed aditional capacitor with 3300uf, 10v, and i don't have black screen in 3dmark06 at 750mhz, but i have it at 775... my core is 440mhz at 1.5v with zalman fs-v7 fatality cooler, but i 3dmark05 has passed all tests with 440/860 without artifacts and i've score 5135 (drivers set to perfomance)... before extra capacitor, i have black screen at stock speed 300/700...i have gainward 6800le 128mb agp made in taiwan with green caps 43 470 6e.... i've noticed that quake3arena is the most efective to black screen when i run timedemo1 with demo001... do you have any advice how to remove black screen at all? what else can i do with my card? thank you

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You should be expecting increase of BS very soon. :)
Adding that cap helps just for a short time, after which BS appear even with 300/500. Read precisely first post of this thread and do Ultimate Capacitor Mod!! It will remove BS permanently*.

* - hmm at least few months :cool:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by santong7

Capacitor labels of my card :
41/470/6E
45/470/6E

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Thanks for info ! Card with those models have not (yet) reported to be BS-affected (those codes are also quite rare). So, your case also proofed this.

You have different codes top of C136 & C143 capacitors ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hneel

I don't have audio noises on the soundcard output.

However, the vga card itself has some mechanical resonance in some (rare) occasions. I can reproduce this by opening a dos box and do a "dir /s". Perhaps some componentents should be fixed with some silicone-paste or something. I haven't found out which components make the noises.

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I wonder the noise coming directly from card is due to heating/cooling-> vibration of some components (coils?) as a function of current consumption variation (=the same fundamental origin that causes noisy audio to speakers)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kramer_117

I have a Gainward 6800 GS 128MB AGP. It recently crashed while running and now the whole computer will not start with the card in the machine. I tried other power supplies. I tried replacing the green caps and a few of the purple caps with replacements but I'm still getting the same problem. Do you think it could be something to do with the ISL6534 chip or would it be something else??

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So, it crashed without any warnings ? And after that (single case) never booted up again ?

- Any (visible) burn components, bad smell?
- Fan is spinning ?
- Computer can be booted with another VGA without problems ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlovrek

i've installed aditional capacitor with 3300uf, 10v, and i don't have black screen in 3dmark06 at 750mhz, but i have it at 775... my core is 440mhz at 1.5v with zalman fs-v7 fatality cooler, but i 3dmark05 has passed all tests with 440/860 without artifacts and i've score 5135 (drivers set to perfomance)... before extra capacitor, i have black screen at stock speed 300/700...i have gainward 6800le 128mb agp made in taiwan with green caps 43 470 6e.... i've noticed that quake3arena is the most efective to black screen when i run timedemo1 with demo001... do you have any advice how to remove black screen at all? what else can i do with my card? thank you

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Hi,

Are you 'jlovrek' from 'MVKTech Forums' ;) ?

As 'piaskoon' already said the replacing capacitors might be the only way (easiest) in your case to increase OC-capability. Especially in the case of "4 3 470 6E" -capacitors ((and with MSI)) extra capacitor do not help too long.

In general there are following ways to remove BS (or increase 'BS-free-frequency')

1. Enhancement capacitor modification with GOOD capacitor (extra cap)
2. Ultimate capacitor modification with GOOD capacitors (replacing caps)
3. Feedback modification (changing feedback components for regulator, this one is quite tricky)

--

If you find it hard to get GOOD capacitors, send a PM for me :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by piaskoon

* - hmm at least few months :cool:

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Hoping it will be BS-free for loooooooooooooooooog time:toast:

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Are you using stock frequencies 24/7 ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SikaRippa

So, it crashed without any warnings ? And after that (single case) never booted up again ?

- Any (visible) burn components, bad smell?
- Fan is spinning ?
- Computer can be booted with another VGA without problems ?

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Right. No visible damage. No smell. Computer boots fine with other AGP cards. It's Like the card draws so much power that the computer can't turn on the fans won't even turn. Do you think that one of the IC chips got too much current but stopped itself before burning itself? The card will turn it's alarm on if you don't plug in the 4 pin molex connector so I figure it's not dead. My next step would be the other caps that I have not replaced then the tricky part of replacing the small SMD ISL6534 or whatever it is. Do you have any other ideas?? Thanks for the help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Hi,

Are you 'jlovrek' from 'MVKTech Forums' ;) ?

As 'piaskoon' already said the replacing capacitors might be the only way (easiest) in your case to increase OC-capability. Especially in the case of "4 3 470 6E" -capacitors ((and with MSI)) extra capacitor do not help too long.

In general there are following ways to remove BS (or increase 'BS-free-frequency')

1. Enhancement capacitor modification with GOOD capacitor (extra cap)
2. Ultimate capacitor modification with GOOD capacitors (replacing caps)
3. Feedback modification (changing feedback components for regulator, this one is quite tricky)

--

If you find it hard to get GOOD capacitors, send a PM for me :)

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yes, i am jlovrek form www.mvktech.net..why? hm, i'm from croatia and i almost didn't find this extra capacitor, but others told me that there is no way to find capacitors like 4 3 470 in my country... so i can't mod my card with ultimate mod... hm, i wonder how someone can have memory at 940mhz? this black screen is really big problem... where can i buy capacitors for ultimate mod? is this solution that will for sure remove bs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kramer_117

Right. No visible damage. No smell. Computer boots fine with other AGP cards. It's Like the card draws so much power that the computer can't turn on the fans won't even turn. Do you think that one of the IC chips got too much current but stopped itself before burning itself? The card will turn it's alarm on if you don't plug in the 4 pin molex connector so I figure it's not dead. My next step would be the other caps that I have not replaced then the tricky part of replacing the small SMD ISL6534 or whatever it is. Do you have any other ideas?? Thanks for the help!

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Seems that the card really has severe problems. The test 'molex removed -beeps' is intersting since it shows the is not COMPLETELY dead. My guess is some of the IC's have burn and I think you should check all those carefully before replacing any other capacitors.

Take a VERY close look all 'power' IC's (backside of card). You should locate those easily by using the temperature measurement figure below.

http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/7...emp27nx.th.jpg

Any visible damage ? Any shorts over MOSFET pins (note that there can be some nodes internally connected together, check pins using datasheets) ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlovrek

yes, i am jlovrek form www.mvktech.net..why?

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Just curious ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jlovrek

i'm from croatia and i almost didn't find this extra capacitor, but others told me that there is no way to find capacitors like 4 3 470 in my country... so i can't mod my card with ultimate mod... hm, i wonder how someone can have memory at 940mhz? this black screen is really big problem... where can i buy capacitors for ultimate mod? is this solution that will for sure remove bs?

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Yep. That kind of capacitors are very hard to find. I have not seen a single 'electronic's shop' which have those on their stock - allways they will order capacitors somewhere (main storage e.g. UK, Germany..).

Having clock speed over ~ 900 MHz is a result of following issues:

- Speed of the Hynix-memory chips: 2.2 ns or 2.8 ns (also some other versions rarely appeared). Having 2.2 ns gives better change. You should check label above memory chips to get this info.
- Condition of 'green' capacitors and/or added extra capacitors. Best condition is replaced capacitors to better ones and a good added extra capacitor
- Model of the card (manufacturer/model). There are differences in feedback components (see document for details), and this has big effect when trying to find very maximum OC-frequency. Little bit tricky and more risky mod.

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Is it risky to give 100 % reliablity (in any case/any problem :) ), but when PROPERLY (!!!) done the cards have been in better condition afterwards. I have heard 1-2 cases when there have been some problems after modding, but it is impossible to say WHY (bad soldering, static electricity, was the card already broken...)

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Please, sent private message to get some hints about replacement capacitors :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Hoping it will be BS-free for loooooooooooooooooog time:toast:

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Are you using stock frequencies 24/7 ?

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Im using 425/875 for all the time :D