Morphing Air Conditioner into Autocascade System

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Man, I wish I could have snuck in and placed a heavy duty humidifier right next to the evaporator....and then removed it before you arrived in the morning. That might have made for some hilarious results.

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That would've done the trick alright :yepp:

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Better yet, get a big drum of olive oil, proper it under, would have frozen it all up, and when you removed the bucket it would be incredibly wierd looking as the outside started to melt!

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And made for one hell of a mess :rolleyes:

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OMG, how did i miss this thread .... its damn cold!

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Yep, and it'll be even colder when I put it in a vacuum (I'm guessing -145C under normal ambient conditions in our shop).

This pic shows a very good physical comparison of a commercially made product (Polycold P-75), and what can be done with a Home Depot purchased AC unit. Now obviously the P-75 is missing its panels, but if nothing else, it shows the tremendous reduction in size that was achieved (not to mention, 1/2 the power consumption).

:shocked:

HAHA I love it :clap:

You did a great job on that !

Half as big, more powerful, less power draw. What more can you ask for?

Nice work. :up:

What's the HX stack like on the P75 though, isn't it pipe in pipe in a massive round coil? I bet they could save space, plus again condenser could be smaller! You are an innovator and an inventer indeed :)

Yes Adam, there is a lot of wasted space inside the stack area, and like you implied, they used a very large diameter mandrel to bend up the coils (tube-in-tube coaxial design).

Polizei -- Long time no hear from. How are your projects going? And yes it does make a difference using a rotary vs a reciprocating compressor when it comes to efficiency.

But the cart still rolls better, uses zero power, and doesn't require any ozone depleting or greenhouse potential gases ;)

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Originally Posted by mytekcontrols

Polizei -- Long time no hear from. How are your projects going? And yes it does make a difference using a rotary vs a reciprocating compressor when it comes to efficiency.

But the cart still rolls better, uses zero power, and doesn't require any ozone depleting or greenhouse potential gases ;)

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Projects? I have barely any time to fiddle with air cooling, let alone getting EPA certified to start playing with gasses. No tools, no workshop, no money, no phase for me. I pop in when I can to learn. :)

Splendid job

it would be possible to make the meme job to cool down a processor?

I thought i've seen everything when i saw the cold_ice's & bazx quality made cascades, but You sir beat them all with this superb job. Everyone knows how hard is to make a aestetically good looking AC and even how hard - if not nearly impossible - is to make a good 3-stage+ autocascade!

Beyond words really. If you make a processor direct-die evaporator AC refrigerator, i'll vote to make You Xtreme Legend!

:up:

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it would be possible to make the meme job to cool down a processor?

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Yes, but due to the modern day requirement in heat load capacity (normally 250 watts), it would take about a 40% increase in compressor mass flow to achieve it on the system that I built. Would also require increasing captube flows proportionately.

Of course this also depends on the temperature required. If -90C would be sufficient for your needs, then simply eliminate one stage, increase the captube flows by at least 25-30%, and eliminate most of the R14, and NO argon.

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Beyond words really. If you make a processor direct-die evaporator AC refrigerator, i'll vote to make You Xtreme Legend!

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Thanks tiborrr :), but I doubt that I'll be able to find the time in the near future to do so. It looks like we'll have to see what Nol ends up doing in his autocascade project, or perhaps Gomeler (I have this feeling that we haven't seen the last AC out of him).

:bounce: Stay Tuned: Pretty soon I'll reveal the final results for this project in the actual application, under a 10-6 Torr vacuum process.

Thanks Michael,
Now I have a 25 page reread!! Nice Job

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Now I have a 25 page reread!!

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I'm not sure if this is a good thing, or a bad thing :shrug: :D

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Originally Posted by mytekcontrols

Thanks tiborrr :), but I doubt that I'll be able to find the time in the near future to do so. It looks like we'll have to see what Nol ends up doing in his autocascade project, or perhaps Gomeler (I have this feeling that we haven't seen the last AC out of him).

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Just got a quote on R170(CHEAP!)... I have a HUGE reciprocating compressor sitting here.. two huge condensers.. a large autocascade is cooking on the back burner. I need a shop like yours :up:

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Originally Posted by mytekcontrols

I'm not sure if this is a good thing, or a bad thing :shrug: :D

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A fantastic thing. This thread has been a huge resource, learned more here on autocascade theory than any other thread. Has this been sticky'd yet?

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is it like foam in a can?

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Nope. It's a two part spray foam made by instapak.

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Just got a quote on R170(CHEAP!)... I have a HUGE reciprocating compressor sitting here.. two huge condensers.. a large autocascade is cooking on the back burner. I need a shop like yours

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gomeler -- Where do you store and work on all this stuff now? Is it something like the basement shop that Nol has (see pic I found online below)?

Yep no doubt about it, I am lucky to have access to a good shop, with professional tools, torches, and a decent supply of refrigerants. Too bad you don't live in my area, since I know the people I work for would probably take on another qualified part time refrigeration person, and this would give you the same access I have. Plus it would give you a chance to work on some really big autocascades.

Nol's Mad Scientist Laboratory

I used to have a single-car garage in which I stored all my benching gear and refrigeration gear. Now I live in a house with no garage so I'm forced to move whatever tools I'm using outside, work for a few hours, and then move back into the house at nightfall. The garage was perfect though, I had 3 desks, 1 for benching and 2 for building, and plenty of space to keep everything organized. No worries though, just pieced together 2 single-stages doing the "patio shuffle" over the course of 2 days :up: When I move out to California I'll have to at least visit your shop and see what a real workshop is like :D

Hahaha that pictures years old. I then switched to nice metal framed work benches, and removed the couch and rugs and all that, got much more organized and clean. Then had wiring added and such to each stand, and then had to move all of it to my fathers home when my mother moved. So now that's all crammed in a very tight 12 by 12 foot square.
Should post a picture sometime ;)

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Originally Posted by n00b 0f l337

Hahaha that pictures years old. I then switched to nice metal framed work benches, and removed the couch and rugs and all that, got much more organized and clean. Then had wiring added and such to each stand, and then had to move all of it to my fathers home when my mother moved. So now that's all crammed in a very tight 12 by 12 foot square.
Should post a picture sometime ;)

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Definitely.

Whats the mini Drill Press for?

Kicking ass and taking names of course ;)
Decent press that it was, I used it mainly for drilling holes in aluminum angle.

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I used to have a single-car garage in which I stored all my benching gear and refrigeration gear. Now I live in a house with no garage so I'm forced to move whatever tools I'm using outside, work for a few hours, and then move back into the house at nightfall. The garage was perfect though, I had 3 desks, 1 for benching and 2 for building, and plenty of space to keep everything organized. No worries though, just pieced together 2 single-stages doing the "patio shuffle" over the course of 2 days

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Kinda reminds me of my situation about 20 years ago...
I was renting a place that had been converted from tin sided barn into a 2 room apartment (1 room was the combination kitchen and living room, and of course the other was the bedroom).

I later convinced the landlord to let me convert the attic space into a workshop. He agreed, and over the course of several months, and scrounging around for free left-over materials from construction sites, my lab was born. It didn't have any windows, but this also turned out to be part blessing when I accidentally started a small fire when torching on a unit. The fire I got under control quickly, but boy did it create a lot of smoke. I was nervous that the landlord would see it (he lived on the same property), and then shut down my operation. But because there were no windows, the only escape for the smoke was through whatever cracks it could find leading out of the attic space. It took quite a few hours for the smoke to finally dissipate, all the while being stealthy while doing so. I never got caught.

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When I move out to California I'll have to at least visit your shop and see what a real workshop is like

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Well it isn't my shop, but I'm sure I can arrange a tour :)

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Hahaha that pictures years old. I then switched to nice metal framed work benches, and removed the couch and rugs and all that, got much more organized and clean. Then had wiring added and such to each stand, and then had to move all of it to my fathers home when my mother moved. So now that's all crammed in a very tight 12 by 12 foot square.

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Nol -- I thought it was great :up: Just what an experimenters place should be.

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Originally Posted by mytekcontrols

Kinda reminds me of my situation about 20 years ago...
I was renting a place that had been converted from tin sided barn into a 2 room apartment (1 room was the combination kitchen and living room, and of course the other was the bedroom).

I later convinced the landlord to let me convert the attic space into a workshop. He agreed, and over the course of several months, and scrounging around for free left-over materials from construction sites, my lab was born. It didn't have any windows, but this also turned out to be part blessing when I accidentally started a small fire when torching on a unit. The fire I got under control quickly, but boy did it create a lot of smoke. I was nervous that the landlord would see it (he lived on the same property), and then shut down my operation. But because there were no windows, the only escape for the smoke was through whatever cracks it could find leading out of the attic space. It took quite a few hours for the smoke to finally dissipate, all the while being stealthy while doing so. I never got caught.


Well it isn't my shop, but I'm sure I can arrange a tour :)

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Hahahah that's great man. The most desperate I've been was brazing together a single-stage for myself in my dorm room. I didn't tell anyone on my floor what I snuck into my room, they would have been pissed with the co2 cylinder and mapp cylinders :D Since then though I've tried to work in large open rooms(said garage) or outside. You've got me beat, I would have cut sky-lights into the roof :eek:

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Originally Posted by sjg0

Definitely.

Whats the mini Drill Press for?

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problably drilling holes. i have one too, its pretty good at drililng holes:p:

Here are my results with the AC-2 unit under actual operating conditions at High Vac (approximately 2x10-6 Torr).

• Comp Suction Pressure = 26 psig
• Comp Discharge Pressure = 148 psig
• Comp Discharge Temperature = 67.1C
• Condenser Air Temperature = 21.8C
• Compressor Suction Temperature = 0.5C
• Veeco MS-17 Cold Probe = -139.6C

I had to boost up the refrigerant charge to completely work the cold probe (forgot about radiant heat load coming from the walls of the cold probe vacuum chamber). Here is my estimate of the present charge:

• 7oz R123
• 4oz R22
• 85psi R170
• 85psi R14
• 45psi Argon

The 1oz boost in the R22 really helped to make a better connection between the low and the high stages of the autocascade, and can also be seen in the moderate pressures, even though more gases were added.

If I get a chance I'll try to do a complete recharge with this new charge to verify repeatability under the same conditions. Judging by the compressor pressures, it appears that there may still be room for more Argon and even lower temps.

So, uh, what is going on in that picture? :yawn:

What's the bottom machine?

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Originally Posted by teyber

problably drilling holes. i have one too, its pretty good at drililng holes:p:

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lol. Wise-A$$ :shakes:

@mytekcontrols: I will be impressed when that thing can reach -250c