6800le 'Black Screen' - The Complete Guide: Identification, modification and reason

I tested BF2 (demo) with GW6800le (version 1b) in order to find out:

- Any slowdown after ~ hour
- Temperature increase during gameplay
- Black screen

During a gaming session of an hour I did not notice any slowdown or any other problems, which can be due to MANY reasons:

- I played too short period (how long I should play to see anything???)
- Demo is different to retail version (probably true)
- Something different setup in computer (drivers etc.)
- Different hardware e.g. version of 6800le-card

So, this test showed only that slowdown is not ALLWAYS appeared. And BS did not appear with 'not-yet-BS' -card.

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I measured temperatures of the card with Rivatuner (=software) and some components (=with Pt100-sensor using a method described in the BS-document). I found that core temperature increased from 63 C to 68 C during gameplay (default cooler).
I measured temperature of several critical components (MOSFET's, capacitors, inductor) like earlier. I found that the temperatures were increased 3 - 7 C between idle and gaming-for-an-hour states. The difference is quite the same level as I measured earlier with 3dmarks. Therefore, I think BF2 is just an ordinary game with a high 3D loading capability.

Conlusion of BF2-test. I think SLOWDOWN (stuttering is a different problem due to 'throttling') while playing BF2, is not directly hardware problem like 'Black screen'. It is more likely software problem caused by coding bugs of BF2, but this just my guess.

Hello, I have a couple of things to say about BF2 problems.

1. If you have anything which forces a refresh rate (i.e. refresh force) and u have set it to say 75Hz at 800x600 and 75Hz at 1024x768 etc BF2 will start, go black, crash to desktop. This is because BF2 needs to be able to launch at 800x600 60Hz - so make sure u have not forced any refresh settings on ur drivers!

2. I used to experience slow-down/lag in BF2, sometimes making the game crash completely. I do not this is a graphics card problem, rather a memory problem. I minimized my BF2 once to find that I had only 30MB of free RAM! I believe this is what is causing slow down for so many people - not enough free RAM when the game is running. Note that my pc has 1GB of RAM and I had no other major applications running (just firewall, xfire, and msn messenger etc).

Solutions: Buy more RAM
Solution 2: Download a program like tuneup 2006 which comes with a memory optimizer - this runs in the background and automatically frees up large chunks of memory if ur available memory falls below a minimum level. This worked great for me and my slowdown/lag has almost disappeared (only slows for a few seconds after I start a game).

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Hi,
because none of the mods seems really to help, i wanted to lower the memclocks... But this doesnt anymore. I cant chance the frequencies to 513-699, the nvidia driver doesnt let me choose these frequencies (the test fail) and when i set them with powerstrip, i get artifacts (flickering polygons) in some games. Imho this is really strange because <513 and >700 work without any problems except BS.
This seems to be because of the hardware, i have the same problems with windows and linux.
I'll try it without and with the fan now, but this is really strange.
Sidolin

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Artifacts suggest that ur card is overheating - replace ur current cooler with an NV 5 Silencer.

To lower ur clockspeed to whatever u want download rivatuner - u might need to disable its test feature to make it accept ur changes.

yo skippa do i havva kik ur noids again ?im number 1 fer nforce 2 with this card using legal drivers on air.now i gonna install using my 146 caby opteron,.but i burnt the mobo trying to sodder the 1T timing for thw cr-p azz-rok gonna smoke them when i get new mobo.used as usuall fromm new eggg.;-).u blow it up i fork it up.these guys need there hands held to do some things thx fer u to guid em bro.hehe the caby 0540 does 3 on air.
now u can all yell at me:slapass:

I diden't understand a word (well, I might have understood one word) of that last post.
Chester, could you type that again, replacing the abrevations (sp?) with their full forms?

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Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

Hello, I have a couple of things to say about BF2 problems.

1. If you have anything which forces a refresh rate (i.e. refresh force) and u have set it to say 75Hz at 800x600 and 75Hz at 1024x768 etc BF2 will start, go black, crash to desktop. This is because BF2 needs to be able to launch at 800x600 60Hz - so make sure u have not forced any refresh settings on ur drivers!

2. I used to experience slow-down/lag in BF2, sometimes making the game crash completely. I do not this is a graphics card problem, rather a memory problem. I minimized my BF2 once to find that I had only 30MB of free RAM! I believe this is what is causing slow down for so many people - not enough free RAM when the game is running. Note that my pc has 1GB of RAM and I had no other major applications running (just firewall, xfire, and msn messenger etc).

Solutions: Buy more RAM
Solution 2: Download a program like tuneup 2006 which comes with a memory optimizer - this runs in the background and automatically frees up large chunks of memory if ur available memory falls below a minimum level. This worked great for me and my slowdown/lag has almost disappeared (only slows for a few seconds after I start a game).

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Your theory sounds quite sensible, since windows + unoptimized program (game) take all memory ever available. In this case the memory usage increased all the time while game is running and finally there only a few bytes left (like 30 MB or zero..)

The minimum memory requirement for BF2 is 512 MB and (over!) 1GB is recommended. I have 1 GB - and no slowdown appeared.

Sh0rt: How much memory you have ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jochenp

I diden't understand a word (well, I might have understood one word) of that last post.
Chester, could you type that again, replacing the abrevations (sp?) with their full forms?

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Nice to heard I was not the only one :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Sh0rt: How much memory you have ?

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1GB

Before my card had BS i could play as long as i wanted...after the cap mod
i had less problems but when black screen will occur the bizzar slowdown will appear short time before!

To test that i removed the cap i get the blackscreen regulary every some minutes but without the slowdown. It will just die ;P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sh0rt

1GB

Before my card had BS i could play as long as i wanted...after the cap mod
i had less problems but when black screen will occur the bizzar slowdown will appear short time before!

To test that i removed the cap i get the blackscreen regulary every some minutes but without the slowdown. It will just die ;P

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OK... so it should not be related to memory (in your case)

Wierd, indeed ! Since you could play BF2 before without ANY problems is quite clear indication that there is some connection between BS and slowdown (at least in your case).

I have anylyzed the operation of the switching regulator of 6800-cards quite carefully, and have some idea what kind of phenomena is happened during BS. The voltage levels are fluctuating a lot just before BS, which could in theory cause slowdown. However, after a 'problem' (=rapid increase in current consumption) is started the BS should take place very rapidly - in order of microseconds ! This is of cource so short period, that can not be noticed by anybody.. One detail that could make this phenomena staying longer is a VERY large added capacitor, but as I remember you have 2200 uF capacitor (??).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SikaRippa

OK... so it should not be related to memory (in your case)

Wierd, indeed ! Since you could play BF2 before without ANY problems is quite clear indication that there is some connection between BS and slowdown (at least in your case).

I have anylyzed the operation of the switching regulator of 6800-cards quite carefully, and have some idea what kind of phenomena is happened during BS. The voltage levels are fluctuating a lot just before BS, which could in theory cause slowdown. However, after a 'problem' (=rapid increase in current consumption) is started the BS should take place very rapidly - in order of microseconds ! This is of cource so short period, that can not be noticed by anybody.. One detail that could make this phenomena staying longer is a VERY large added capacitor, but as I remember you have 2200 uF capacitor (??).

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Hehe, sorry for this useless post, but try reading this when you think BS means Bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: (Guilty)

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Originally Posted by Jochenp

Hehe, sorry for this useless post, but try reading this when you think BS means Bull:banana::banana::banana::banana: (Guilty)

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Useless ? Not at all (I am fan of all wierd comedies like Monty Python)!!!

It became very funny indeed: ".. phenomena is happened during BS... fluctuating a lot just before BS, which could in theory cause slowdown. However, after a 'problem' ... is started the BS should take place very rapidly - in order of microseconds"

with :bs: = :fart: => :rofl:

Indeed, I thought wtf is this guy bragging about? Then I drank a Coke and the cafe&#239;ne must have cleared my mind :)
(OT: IMO the holy grail is the best one)

Hello, my uncle did the ultimate capacitor modification today :) . It seems to have worked - operating at 700Mhz with no BS!

Quote:

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"4 8 470 6E" - usually no BS when new, BS after some months (MSI, GW)

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Just to let u know that I had these capacitors and I had BS straight away, the first time I used card.

Thanks for all ur help Sika, I really appreciate all the work u've put in to this problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jochenp

Indeed, I thought wtf is this guy bragging about? Then I drank a Coke and the cafeïne must have cleared my mind :)
(OT: IMO the holy grail is the best one)

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<OT continues>

I like jokes having several submeanings, maybe I wrote that post using unconscious mind :) I my opinion 'Holy Grai'l is the best film in world (ever!), the reason can be put in two letters: NI !

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Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

Hello, my uncle did the ultimate capacitor modification today :) . It seems to have worked - operating at 700Mhz with no BS!



Just to let u know that I had these capacitors and I had BS straight away, the first time I used card.

Thanks for all ur help Sika, I really appreciate all the work u've put in to this problem.

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:up: :up: Nice Xmas present, a WORKING 6800le-card !

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At least GW-ards with "4 8 470 6E"-caps have been usually working longer.. I do not remember, is your card MSI ?

An interesting case was reported in Finnish forum. A GW6800le-card (or several cards) were RMA'd and the users got GW-cards back. In this case the reseller told that cards have been 'repaired' by manufactured (!!). Even more interesting is that these card looks like excatly the same as 'version 1' e.g. "4 3 470 6E" (see document for details). No BS has been observed (yet) and the reason is quite clear, take a look following fotos (Credits 'anzi80' !!):



http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/8...d0yx0zg.th.jpg
A foto taken from bottom of 'new' "4 3 470 6E" GW-card

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3...0yxb8fn.th.jpg
The same foto with highlighted areas (soldering-by-hand)


http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/5...art27mj.th.jpg
A foto taken from bottom of 'version' "4 8 470 6E" GW-card (no hand soldering at all)



This means following important things:

- There are "4 3 470 6E" or 'version 1 cards' that are working better (mofified by company)
- It is possible to make card working even with (new??) "4 3 470 6E" capacitors by having PROPER feeback components

Bad news are:

- Identification of 'version 1 cards' is not simple since identical labels/codes are used: only way is to investigate those tiny capacitors (see purple markings on above figure)
- Modification of feedback components is NOT easy task
- In addtion to this modification capacitors should be changed in the case of the OLD card. It has been confirmed by mesurements, that the capacitors of a BS-card have been ruined

I have an XFX 6800XT (which is equal to an LE) with purple capacitors, and still have a BS problem. The print on the capacitors is: "506 SVP 560 10".

I've unlocked the pipes/shaders on my card. When I tried overclocking to 400/800, I got BS in 3Dmark03. At 350/750 it ran fine. But I got an occasional BS in other games.

Then I read this thread and started testing with Ski Alpine. When overclocked, I got a BS as soon as the real game began. Then I stopped overclocking and disabled the extra pipes/shaders. Now the BS came a bit later. Then I connected the power connector to a separate line from the power supply (before it was shared with the harddisks). Now I can sometimes ski all the way downhill, but still not always.

Quote:

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I do not remember, is your card MSI ?

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Jep, that is correct.

Hi SikaRippa, nice info you have here
I have a evga 6800NU with capacitors 4 0 470 6E, this card never had any kind of BS. However after I put a 2.7k resistor between TP13-TP14 to raise memory voltage to 2.7x V, I started experiencing some weird things, such as the 3dmark03 modulating sound interference through my headphones, and also the card buzzing in heavy 3d activities (high pitch sound as in a crt monitors flyback)
Are these capacitors known to be affected by BS problem? Would adding another one help taking the load off them? From what I read here I should buy a ESR < 30mOhms, ripple current 4A, 6-16V, 1200uF, solid aluminum capacitor, is this right?
It still doesn't show any sign of BS or slowdown, but the noise is bothering me and it looks like the capacitors are overstressed...
Cya

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hneel

I have an XFX 6800XT (which is equal to an LE) with purple capacitors, and still have a BS problem. The print on the capacitors is: "506 SVP 560 10".

I've unlocked the pipes/shaders on my card. When I tried overclocking to 400/800, I got BS in 3Dmark03. At 350/750 it ran fine. But I got an occasional BS in other games.

Then I read this thread and started testing with Ski Alpine. When overclocked, I got a BS as soon as the real game began. Then I stopped overclocking and disabled the extra pipes/shaders. Now the BS came a bit later. Then I connected the power connector to a separate line from the power supply (before it was shared with the harddisks). Now I can sometimes ski all the way downhill, but still not always.

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Hi,

Thank you for providing info about new BS-affected card :)

The tests you made make sense: better power (seperate cord) BS more rarely, lower clock & normal pipes BS more rarely.

As long as no BS at stock speed is bad problem, because you can not RMA the card ..

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There are only a few cases having 'purple' capacitors and BS, so it quite hard to say how your card will 'survive' in future. In one case reported by 'inspire' the XFX-card (le) became worse later on and finally he changed capacitors (added capacitor did not help too long) - and the card started to work again !

Hi

A couple of things

I have a MSI 6800LE with E 44 470 6V capacitors that fails in my PC from new but works in another. The fix of the extra cap between Tp 9 to 10 works wonders but is a bit of a bodge.

I would prefer to replace the repair with sanyo svp1200M's as those seem to be on the RMA card I just received from MSI after a fan failure (pity the returned card did not unlock like the original :-( )

Did anyone source sanyo svp1200M in the UK for a decent price? So far &#163;20 plus tax and shipping is the minimum cost. Can anyone help or does anyone else want to buy some if I order more than 2?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KoR_Wraith

Jep, that is correct.

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OK.. I have to update document: "4 8 470 6E"-capacitors with MSI -> BS possible ASAP or very soon.

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I think that MSI has not (even now) realized that those tiny capacitors should be change in order to have better (decent) performance. There can be found at least following capacitors (C136&C143) in MSI 6800le-cards:

- "4 3 470 6E" - BS affected ASAP
- "4 8 470 6E" - BS affected ASAP or soonIf that is true
- "4 9 470 6E" - BS affected ASAP or soon
- "SVP 1200 uF 4V" (=purple) - CAN BS affected (at least one case)

Using this info I suppose that:

MSI has only so far utilized different capacitors, and no modification to the regulator feedback has been done

Has anyone ever seen MSI 6800le-card with these little capacitors modified (=soldered by hand) afterward ? Take a look foto below, where the modified solder pads are highlighted.

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3...0yxb8fn.th.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nobre

Hi SikaRippa, nice info you have here
I have a evga 6800NU with capacitors 4 0 470 6E, this card never had any kind of BS. However after I put a 2.7k resistor between TP13-TP14 to raise memory voltage to 2.7x V, I started experiencing some weird things, such as the 3dmark03 modulating sound interference through my headphones, and also the card buzzing in heavy 3d activities (high pitch sound as in a crt monitors flyback)
Are these capacitors known to be affected by BS problem? Would adding another one help taking the load off them? From what I read here I should buy a ESR < 30mOhms, ripple current 4A, 6-16V, 1200uF, solid aluminum capacitor, is this right?
It still doesn't show any sign of BS or slowdown, but the noise is bothering me and it looks like the capacitors are overstressed...
Cya

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Hi,

The wierd noisy sound is 'feature' of these cards, no matter BS-affected or not. The noisy sound is result of load variation (=current consumption of the card). The noise at loadpeakers can be minimized by setting CD-audio 'off' or by using filter (see the document). Noise coming DIRECTLY from card (inductors..) can not be removed by any means (AFAIK).

You did not heard any noise before adding resistor ? Did you mod succeeded e.g. what is the value of Vmem ? Any other problems addition to noise ?

If you do not have BS, there is not need to add extra capacitor. However, if you want to have maximum OC and BS is the limiting factor, an added capacitor propably give extra boost. If you want add capacitor the best choice is a leaded component (more easy to install), low-ESR, ~ 2200 -4700 uF, >6V.

Using my theory BS is result of bad design of card = too sensitive power down circuitry. The operation is usually limited by those (ruined capacitors), but in some cases the unoptimal feedback components are also important (especially in the case of a brand new BS-affected card).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by errata

Hi

A couple of things

I have a MSI 6800LE with E 44 470 6V capacitors that fails in my PC from new but works in another. The fix of the extra cap between Tp 9 to 10 works wonders but is a bit of a bodge.

I would prefer to replace the repair with sanyo svp1200M's as those seem to be on the RMA card I just received from MSI after a fan failure (pity the returned card did not unlock like the original :-( )

Did anyone source sanyo svp1200M in the UK for a decent price? So far &#163;20 plus tax and shipping is the minimum cost. Can anyone help or does anyone else want to buy some if I order more than 2?

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Hi,

Thank you for info !

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The price of few capacitors becomes allways very high due to postage. I have some extra PXA's (with the same/better specs), and can send for you decent cost :) Just send PM...

Although the speaker noise could be there before and I hadn't noticed, the noise directly coming from the card was definately not there before the resistor.
I added a 2.7kohm resistor that raised vmem from 2.56V to around 2.75V, no other problems added, my max oc bumped from 780 to 860 or so in memory (running daily at 800)
Would this noise be a "BS coming" sign? That's why I'm considering adding this resistor before my card starts crappying its pants :o

Thanks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SikaRippa

Hi,

The wierd noisy sound is 'feature' of these cards, no matter BS-affected or not. The noisy sound is result of load variation (=current consumption of the card). The noise at loadpeakers can be minimized by setting CD-audio 'off' or by using filter (see the document). Noise coming DIRECTLY from card (inductors..) can not be removed by any means (AFAIK).

You did not heard any noise before adding resistor ? Did you mod succeeded e.g. what is the value of Vmem ? Any other problems addition to noise ?

If you do not have BS, there is not need to add extra capacitor. However, if you want to have maximum OC and BS is the limiting factor, an added capacitor propably give extra boost. If you want add capacitor the best choice is a leaded component (more easy to install), low-ESR, ~ 2200 -4700 uF, >6V.

Using my theory BS is result of bad design of card = too sensitive power down circuitry. The operation is usually limited by those (ruined capacitors), but in some cases the unoptimal feedback components are also important (especially in the case of a brand new BS-affected card).

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