Feser's New Lineup

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Originally Posted by iandh

It's just an analogy to help people that are having trouble imagining that thin stainless tubes could outperform thick copper ones.

Regardless of what the analogy shows in relation, the science still says that the water/air delta at equilibrium will be lower on the stainless foil, than it will on the copper sheet.

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Sure, if the copper sheet is at least 8 to 40 times the thickness of the stainless steel foil.

The science, in form of a simplified differential equation for 1-d heat flux, says:
q = -k * dT/dx
where k is conductivity and dx is the differential for distance through the material right.

You probably know more about material dimensions than I do. Is SS foil 1/8-1/40 times the thickness of a copper sheet that would be used for a radiator channel?

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Originally Posted by iandh

Distance determines the minimum theoretical water to air delta... material does matter, but it doesn't necessary hold you back as long as you can compensate with less thickness.

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Thickness (for 1-d) and conductivity have almost equal weight. I actually didn't believe the statement above about the SS being negligible so I had to figure it out myself with the following simplifying assumptions.

The conductivity of aluminum is like 2-4 times worse than copper (IIRC 100-200 W/mK) and stainless steel is like 4-10 times worse than aluminum. What should make it worse, is that you now have an additional medium to go through by combining the SS and Al. q = dT/(1/sum(dx/k_i)).

Assuming 0.2mm stainless wrapped with aluminium, the stainless term all but falls out for aluminium thicknesses of 0.2mm to 5mm. The required ratio of copper to aluminum thickness for equivalent heat flux is 1/2 - 1/4 to 2 significant digits. That's kind of cool.

The laser welding vs. soldering also probably gives them another heads up. I'm going to go back to my original statement (and yours) that things can always be optimized through good engineering. I'm looking forward to this again.

EDIT: sorry for the equation blah blah, but like I said I had to figure it out myself and this way someone can tell me how wrong I am (paging mpg ;) ).

damn this thread is still going on? lol

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Originally Posted by Aedubber

damn this thread is still going on? lol

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that's what I said. note what's not in it.

I doubt the copper channels used in regular heater cores that we are using are any thicker than 1mm ? 0.5mm would sound more realistic... ? Anyone has figures about this ?

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Originally Posted by Aedubber

damn this thread is still going on? lol

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Originally Posted by meanmoe

that's what I said. note what's not in it.

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A separate thread has been started. Come join the discussion here

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Originally Posted by gmat

I doubt the copper channels used in regular heater cores that we are using are any thicker than 1mm ? 0.5mm would sound more realistic... ? Anyone has figures about this ?

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I may have something in a couple days. I'm mulling over whether or not I want to cut open my GTS 120. I really hate the damn thing and it'd make a good sacrifice if I make up my mind that I never want to use the thing again. The only thing keeping me from doing it at this moment is my AP-15's...they may actually make the GTS "useful". ;)

Just for information. Only few rad manufacturers use Copper for tube material, for example, XSPC RX-series, Coolgate, Feser X-changer (no more). Others, Thermochill, EK, Swiftech, Phobya, have either Brass tubes or don't specify tube material at all. Fins, on the other side, are Copper for all these rads.

It looks like Admiral are going to be released after all

You Tube

Estimates - July 2011 (read the comments)

yep, but this radiator desing isn't patented by thermalfins?

Thats awesome, it would be cool if they could release them with the acrylic end caps and joining pieces.

So will they release them with both types of end caps? It would be interesting to see whether the serial path gives better transfer rates than the parallel.

Been 8 months since announcement....if something isn't seriously wrong with their performance (Thermalfins, too), I'd be surprised.

:2cents:

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Originally Posted by ying

yep, but this radiator desing isn't patented by thermalfins?

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No. AFAIK Admirals are produced somewhere far East ;)

Might be underwhelming :)
but we can test during the nice summer temperatures

Been looking through a bunch of Youtube videos and bumped into this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpHgl...ailpage#t=204s

Is that a new Feser rad? (3:24). Surely does not look like AC AMS or Thermalfins X3

Compare to this:

Attachment 117408

http://hw-lab.com/thermalfins-a-new-...ercooling.html

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Originally Posted by bundymania

Compare to this...

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That does no look like steel to me, more of Acrylic/Plastic

Probably an acrylic endpiece on the AMS. edit: actually, considering the source, it might very well be a Feser rad with an acrylic endpiece.

Seems that some products from Admiral line Feser actually managed to make. Shrouds with LEDs :/
It looks as their height is optimal one (~30, as per Martin's test), but imho they should have call it somehow else, to not remind about many failures in bringing admiral rads to market.
Also pricing .. cutting up yates is so much cheaper :/

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Originally Posted by churchy

Seems that some products from Admiral line Feser actually managed to make. Shrouds with LEDs :/

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well considering they said this

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Any updates on the official release date yet?

the release will be july.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZ4oCy-vCsc

i was surprised nobody mentioned this video :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXnX6...&feature=feedu

'so, has anyone actually seen one of these on the market?? Even the Feser website does not list any rads ??

very strange indeed

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Originally Posted by king033

i was surprised nobody mentioned this video :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXnX6...&feature=feedu

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absolutely pointless

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Originally Posted by SpuTnicK

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Originally Posted by king033

i was surprised nobody mentioned this video :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXnX6...&feature=feedu

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absolutely pointless

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+1

I have multiple problems with that vid.

1. what generation is that Admiral? Is is one of the first prototypes or is it a newer modular version that he just got? I noticed he mentioned a RX360 in the vid, does this mean that the 240 was the only Admiral he has?

2. what was ambient? If the ambient was high teens to low 20's, temps of a loaded system are going to look a lot better than if the temps were say mid to high 20's.

3. editing of the vid leaves a lot of doubt in my mind as to how many video sessions there were before he got results that were to his liking.

4. last but certainly not least...3k RPM screamers?...really??? These rads were supposedly designed to work best with their Triebwerk crap which are from from the screamers he used but, he did sort of validate what I said back on page 11. ;)

That vid is nothing more than a marketing tool to see how much interest there still is in a rad that will likely never see the light of day...shilling at it's best.

Put 3k screamers on any decent 240mm and you'll cool that rig. That can in no way be used as indication of the rad performance. Did he even mention ambient? Water temp was still rising too in the occt test - you can tell as the gpu's idle temp is still climbing. Not good that it hasnt reached equilibrium in that amount of time.

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Originally Posted by Waterlogged

+1

I have multiple problems with that vid.

1. what generation is that Admiral? Is is one of the first prototypes or is it a newer modular version that he just got? I noticed he mentioned a RX360 in the vid, does this mean that the 240 was the only Admiral he has?

2. what was ambient? If the ambient was high teens to low 20's, temps of a loaded system are going to look a lot better than if the temps were say mid to high 20's.

3. editing of the vid leaves a lot of doubt in my mind as to how many video sessions there were before he got results that were to his liking.

4. last but certainly not least...3k RPM screamers?...really??? These rads were supposedly designed to work best with their Triebwerk crap which are from from the screamers he used but, he did sort of validate what I said back on page 11. ;)

That vid is nothing more than a marketing tool to see how much interest there still is in a rad that will likely never see the light of day...shilling at it's best.

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Originally Posted by PiLsY

Put 3k screamers on any decent 240mm and you'll cool that rig. That can in no way be used as indication of the rad performance. Did he even mention ambient? Water temp was still rising too in the occt test - you can tell as the gpu's idle temp is still climbing. Not good that it hasnt reached equilibrium in that amount of time.

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+1

Don't you think he would show a bit more of the rad?

Smells fishy