ATI Radeon HD 4000 Series discussion

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06-10-2008, 10:06 PM
ORBR

Quote:

Originally Posted by zerazax

Does the GPU-Z reading of the Catalyst drivers line up with 8.5? I don't have an ATI card so I can't tell if those are the correct ID #'s for 8.5 / Vista

in the right Catalyst 8.6 [ Vista 64 ] from one of my PCs

http://xs128.xs.to/xs128/08243/catal...parison943.jpg

looks like the catalyst used mismatch the version string
06-10-2008, 10:32 PM
Miksu

GPU-Z uses a database to identify the cards. If the DB isn't up-to-date, it shows incorrect information (well, clock rates are probably read real-time). Even the original author of the review says that the GPU-Z values are wrong:

"We test used by the test drive version amd_vista_radeonhd_4850_8.50.3_final_certified, in the latest version of the GPU-Z in a comprehensive manner and failed to obtain relevant information, but we can understand that the core and memory frequencies were 625 / 1986MHz."

So 480vs800 SP is still undecided. I would lean on the 800's side though...
06-10-2008, 10:34 PM
oohms

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miksu

So 480vs800 SP is still undecided. I would lean on the 800's side though...

Purely based off transistor count, 480 seems a lot more likely
06-10-2008, 10:43 PM
shadow of chaos

so we have weak cards?
06-10-2008, 10:56 PM
Miksu

Quote:

Originally Posted by oohms

Purely based off transistor count, 480 seems a lot more likely

And on the other hand the Perlin noise -score says it's 800 :)
06-10-2008, 10:56 PM
spoof

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miksu

GPU-Z uses a database to identify the cards. If the DB isn't up-to-date, it shows incorrect information (well, clock rates are probably read real-time). Even the original author of the review says that the GPU-Z values are wrong:

"We test used by the test drive version amd_vista_radeonhd_4850_8.50.3_final_certified, in the latest version of the GPU-Z in a comprehensive manner and failed to obtain relevant information, but we can understand that the core and memory frequencies were 625 / 1986MHz."

So 480vs800 SP is still undecided. I would lean on the 800's side though...

If GPU-Z info is legit, the core and mem are downclocked, so this isn't the actual score ot 3D Mark06. Furthermore, the shot from gpu-z given from ORBR have different default clock freq, so one more missmatch.
06-10-2008, 11:04 PM
cadaveca

gpu-z seems fine for clocks, driver is correct for 4850's, mem bandwidth ok, fillrates are not, do not scale with clockspeed changes.
06-10-2008, 11:04 PM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

If those are legit it looks like they've majorly tightened up on the AF issue. With 8xAA/16xAF:

the scores are legit, but who know maybe it shoped. :shrug:
06-10-2008, 11:23 PM
SoulsCollective

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet331

the scores are legit, but who know maybe it shoped. :shrug:

u cn tel bi d pixls?
06-10-2008, 11:59 PM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoulsCollective

u cn tel bi d pixls?

fear my mad calculator skillz!!111 :p:
06-11-2008, 12:51 AM
865pe

Rv770 > 800 Shaders or 480?
06-11-2008, 02:24 AM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003

And it's also got 480 shaders. Damn, the 4000 series is going to suck. What a let down. That will likely go for the 4870 as well. If the 4850 scores X2700 in vantage, then the 4870 will maybe score X3100, which may even be optimistic. If the GTX 280 is scoring X4800, the 4870 is going to get pounded in a huge way.

And I sincerely doubt the 4870X2 is going to score X5500. I mean thats not far off from double the performance, and multi GPU configurations do NOT scale that well.

Err...

2800*1.3 = 3640 (Current correct GTX 260 scores are about X3700-3800, 80% of the GTX 280 which scores ~X4800)

I expect 4870 to get about X3600. And it's DEFINITELY 800 (160), no talk about anything else :up:
06-11-2008, 02:28 AM
alexio

RV770 = 800SPs

Don't ask for the source ;)
06-11-2008, 02:30 AM
Genius_pt

Hmm, doesn't sound too good for me. With 800sp this cards should have scored better :confused: !
06-11-2008, 02:32 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

Err...

2800*1.3 = 3640 (Current correct GTX 260 scores are about X3700-3800, 80% of the GTX 280 which scores ~X4800)

I expect 4870 to get about X3600. And it's DEFINITELY 800 (160), no talk about anything else :up:

A. The 4870 is priced a third lower than the GTX 260, so there is NO expectation for it to get the same mark.
B. Even if it had similar performance, Vantage has had an Nvidia bias since launch and though that was remedied with the ATI vantage hotfix, you can't rely on Vantage alone for performance benchmarking.
C. 480 or 800, it will be a killer card for the price :)

The scores arent TOO bad at all, considering what the 4850 can do with voltmods.

Perkam
06-11-2008, 02:33 AM
alexio

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genius_pt

Hmm, doesn't sound too good for me. With 800sp this cards should have scored better :confused: !

They are simpler units than those on the RV670 I presume, but I can not confirm what the exact change has been. It has 800SPs according to my source so I'm pretty sure about that.
06-11-2008, 02:36 AM
AliG

how could they be simpler units? If they were simpler units that did less intructions then ATI would have needed more shaders to achieve that 800 number (as they multiply the number of shaders by the number of instructions it can do basically for the final number), definitely not a simpler shader
06-11-2008, 02:41 AM
alexio

http://www.beyond3d.com/content/reviews/16/8
Yes, a shader can be simpler if it is dedicated to a smaller amount of instructions.
06-11-2008, 02:47 AM
AliG

You aren't getting the point, ATI gets its shader count by multiplying the number of shaders by its possible instructions. So for the R600 you got 64*5 shading instructions = 320. Now if the rv770 has 800 shaders, you HAVE TO HAVE either 160 * 5 shading instructions or more shaders. No other possible way for it to happen, otherwise it wouldn't be "800" shaders.
06-11-2008, 02:56 AM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

A. The 4870 is priced a third lower than the GTX 260, so there is NO expectation for it to get the same mark.
B. Even if it had similar performance, Vantage has had an Nvidia bias since launch and though that was remedied with the ATI vantage hotfix, you can't rely on Vantage alone for performance benchmarking.
C. 480 or 800, it will be a killer card for the price :)

The scores arent TOO bad at all, considering what the 4850 can do with voltmods.

Perkam

Why not?

Vantage is still really shader limited (3850 > 9600GT) but unfortunately RV670 doesn't have enough TMUs to not get bottlenecked.

RV770's popular TMU number aka 32, should be enough to not be bottlenecked. G80 proved that.

And also, 4850 is heavily bottlenecked by bandwidth. Can't wait for a 2.2Ghz DDR3 version to come, I smell some 9 series slaughter. :D

Plus, XFastest.com has REAL screenshots of the 4850 in Vantage, see the feature test scores. They confirm 800SPs, and much better scores in the 6 feature tests (more important for me than the overall score)
06-11-2008, 02:59 AM
AliG

link? I generally find it myself, but its kinda hard when you can't read the page lol
06-11-2008, 03:04 AM
alexio

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliG

You aren't getting the point, ATI gets its shader count by multiplying the number of shaders by its possible instructions. So for the R600 you got 64*5 shading instructions = 320. Now if the rv770 has 800 shaders, you HAVE TO HAVE either 160 * 5 shading instructions or more shaders. No other possible way for it to happen, otherwise it wouldn't be "800" shaders.

Yeah I get what you mean. It seems I used the word 'shader' wrongly. I meant ALUs, simpler ALUs. ATI would count this as 100*8 for example.
06-11-2008, 03:06 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

Why not?

Vantage is still really shader limited (3850 > 9600GT) but unfortunately RV670 doesn't have enough TMUs to not get bottlenecked.

RV770's popular TMU number aka 32, should be enough to not be bottlenecked. G80 proved that.

And also, 4850 is heavily bottlenecked by bandwidth. Can't wait for a 2.2Ghz DDR3 version to come, I smell some 9 series slaughter. :D

ahm im sure you know the G80 had 64TMUs so closed the gap from 1/4 to 1/2 ;)
06-11-2008, 03:17 AM
AliG

no, g80 had 32, g92 had 64
06-11-2008, 03:22 AM
Macadamia

http://xfastest.com/viewthread.php?t...&extra=&page=1

And yet, it is the FASTEST single GPU in texture fillrate when compared to the Digit life scores.
(RV770 gets higher than the 64TMU G92s, touche)
http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/vantage/ft1.png
06-11-2008, 03:34 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by AliG

no, g80 had 32, g92 had 64

sorry but thats not ture, g80 had 64 TMUs and 32 TFUs -> G92 had 64TMUs and 64TFUs, get your facts right. :p:

btw anyone can bench crysis at everything high on 800x600 (4580 scores ~avg. 56)
06-11-2008, 03:35 AM
ORBR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

http://xfastest.com/viewthread.php?t...&extra=&page=1

And yet, it is the FASTEST single GPU in texture fillrate when compared to the Digit life scores.
(RV770 gets higher than the 64TMU G92s, touche)
http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/vantage/ft1.png

57 FPS in Crysis @800x600 Dx10 Vista 64? :confused:

why 800x600?
maybe they are testing the cpu? :clap: :shrug:
06-11-2008, 03:37 AM
ORBR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet331

(4580 scores ~avg. 56)

4580?

this is a typo's fest? :D
06-11-2008, 03:41 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

http://xfastest.com/viewthread.php?t...&extra=&page=1

And yet, it is the FASTEST single GPU in texture fillrate when compared to the Digit life scores.
(RV770 gets higher than the 64TMU G92s, touche)
http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/vantage/ft1.png

lol you dont really expect that the 4850 has a teratexel fillrate? :ROTF:
06-11-2008, 03:47 AM
whocaresbg

see below in the same site ..

The card scores 56 FPS avg. on DX10;800x600 .

If someone could test on a similar rig with HD3870CF/9800GTX or HD3870X2 .

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORBR

57 FPS in Crysis @800x600 Dx10 Vista 64? :confused:

why 800x600?
maybe they are testing the cpu? :clap: :shrug:

benchmark_gpu :p:.
06-11-2008, 03:47 AM
bowman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet331

lol you dont really expect that the 4850 has a teratexel fillrate? :ROTF:

Wait for an engineering sample CPU to show 1THz in CPU-Z, and then for someone to post heralding this marvel of engineering.:p:
06-11-2008, 03:49 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by bowman

Wait for an engineering sample CPU to show 1THz in CPU-Z, and then for someone to post heralding this marvel of engineering.:p:

hehe
06-11-2008, 04:03 AM
Genius_pt

Honestly that crysis benchmark at 800x600 is intriguing me. Why the hell they tested it at that resolution and not at very high setting?

What did they want to show?
06-11-2008, 04:06 AM
Extelleron

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

http://xfastest.com/viewthread.php?t...&extra=&page=1

And yet, it is the FASTEST single GPU in texture fillrate when compared to the Digit life scores.
(RV770 gets higher than the 64TMU G92s, touche)
http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/vantage/ft1.png

If those are true scores, then it is likely that RV770 either has 40 TMUs or architectural improvements IMO.

Unless there have been improvements in the Vantage Feature Scores with updated drivers of course.

Looking at Firingsquad's Vantage review: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ance/page8.asp

That score would give HD 4850 ~1.86x the texture power of HD 3870, when the theoretical jump w/ 32 TMUs @ 625MHz is 1.61x. The jump with 40 TMUs @ 625MHz would be 2.01x, which seems likely given the 1.86x increase in texture fillrate. HD 4850 might have trouble getting all of its theoretical fillrate since it is likely bandwidth limited.
06-11-2008, 04:27 AM
Macadamia

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genius_pt

Honestly that crysis benchmark at 800x600 is intriguing me. Why the hell they tested it at that resolution and not at very high setting?

What did they want to show?

THEY HAVE THE CARDS AND ARE NOT UNDER NDA. And they will not post the scores because they want to protec- oops. :p:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extelleron

If those are true scores, then it is likely that RV770 either has 40 TMUs or architectural improvements IMO.

Unless there have been improvements in the Vantage Feature Scores with updated drivers of course.

Looking at Firingsquad's Vantage review: http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...ance/page8.asp

That score would give HD 4850 ~1.86x the texture power of HD 3870, when the theoretical jump w/ 32 TMUs @ 625MHz is 1.61x. The jump with 40 TMUs @ 625MHz would be 2.01x, which seems likely given the 1.86x increase in texture fillrate. HD 4850 might have trouble getting all of its theoretical fillrate since it is likely bandwidth limited.

I concur, actually. But even on the safe side, 32 TMUs would be great already. Memory is SERIOUSLY limiting the 4850's performance from my standpoint.
06-11-2008, 05:01 AM
spoof

Quote:

Originally Posted by whocaresbg

see below in the same site ..

The card scores 56 FPS avg. on DX10;800x600 .

If someone could test on a similar rig with HD3870CF/9800GTX or HD3870X2 .

benchmark_gpu :p:.

8800GTX stock - 33fps AVG with the same settings. I'm not sure, i think is too slow, because at 1680* Very High i get 20fps avg@680/160/1080
06-11-2008, 05:05 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoof

8800GTX stock - 33fps AVG with the same settings. I'm not sure, i think is too slow, because at 1680* Very High i get 20fps avg@680/160/1080

That`s normal. Crysis has an uber-ness limiter that halves the frame rate whenever it gets close to 100. Apparently, the story goes that Crysis brings out a new patch whenever computers start getting above 100fps on any settings in the game, to preserve it`s uberness and to drive fanboys crazy over its low unoptimizied framerates for many years to come :)

Perkam
06-11-2008, 05:19 AM
clonez

you got it:yepp:

only that thse patches are called expansion-packs, that cut frames in half and offer only minimalistic graphical improvements (and crytek gets more money:D):clap:
06-11-2008, 06:23 AM
[XC] hipno650

i will test Crysis at 800x600 on HIGH tonight on my 8800gt and see what happens but i have a feeling it will be similar to that score. if so im not to impressed. hopefully drivers will fix things.
06-11-2008, 07:20 AM
Extelleron

HD 4870 Performance vs 9800GTX

HD 4870 is ~30-50% faster @ 1920x1200 4xAA/8xAF

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4...ahd4800eg3.jpg

HD 4850 Performance vs 8800GT

HD 4850 is ~25-50% faster @ 1920x1200 4xAA/8xAF

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9...bhd4800mz1.jpg
06-11-2008, 07:21 AM
perkam

Quote:

Originally Posted by Extelleron

HD 4870 Performance vs 9800GTX

HD 4870 is ~30-50% faster @ 1920x1200 4xAA/8xAF

http://img139.imageshack.us/im...amdslideahd4800eg3.jpg

HD 4850 Performance vs 8800GT

HD 4850 is ~25-50% faster @ 1920x1200 4xAA/8xAF

http://img137.imageshack.us/im...amdslidebhd4800mz1.jpg

Fake...unless you were trying to tell us they got 404fps in Crysis in an indirect manner that is X_X

Perkam
06-11-2008, 07:22 AM
Extelleron

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

Fake...unless you were trying to tell us they got 404fps in Crysis in an indirect manner that is X_X

Perkam

Fixed links.
06-11-2008, 07:31 AM
v_rr

Official Test Results of ATi Radeon HD 4800 Series

http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/4...ahd4800eg3.jpg

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/9...bhd4800mz1.jpg
http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_23897423/tm.htm
06-11-2008, 07:32 AM
Atal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Macadamia

http://xfastest.com/viewthread.php?t...&extra=&page=1

And yet, it is the FASTEST single GPU in texture fillrate when compared to the Digit life scores.
(RV770 gets higher than the 64TMU G92s, touche)
http://www.ixbt.com/video3/images/vantage/ft1.png

the bottom right picture at the first post did it for me:up:
06-11-2008, 07:40 AM
Stuen4y

If those results aren't a fake nvidia will have serious problems with the price/performance relation. Only the high-end products wouldn't produce enough sales and the cards of ati will be the best choice in their price gap...
06-11-2008, 08:03 AM
Jowy Atreides

reason no.1 as to why those graphs are fake:

they're an opposite version of the gtx vs 3870x2 graphs from nvidia
soooo similar in how they use scale and compare previous gen :rolleyes:

you really think AMD just copied a leaked nvidia chart?
06-11-2008, 08:07 AM
Isaac MM

Will there be any difference in performance between a 4870 in CrossFire and a 4870x2?
06-11-2008, 08:10 AM
Jowy Atreides

http://b.imagehost.org/0475/Untitled_1.png
06-11-2008, 08:12 AM
Stuen4y

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

reason no.1 as to why those graphs are fake:

they're an opposite version of the gtx vs 3870x2 graphs from nvidia
soooo similar in how they use scale and compare previous gen :rolleyes:

you really think AMD just copied a leaked nvidia chart?

I don't think so. The nvidia graphics were with about 100 and more percentage difference between their and the ati product, but these look more realistic. I've said they can be fake, but there is still hope in every fanATIc:rolleyes:.

P.S. Maybe you're right about the total fake:( They just have pasted a 4870 pic in the other slide, in order to hide the spot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isaac MM

Will there be any difference in performance between a 4870 in CrossFire and a 4870x2?

Yes there should be, because of the shared memory that 4870X2 have to use.
06-11-2008, 08:18 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuen4y

I don't think so. The nvidia graphics were with about 100 and more percentage difference between their and the ati product, but these look more realistic. I've said they can be fake, but there is still hope in every fanATIc:rolleyes:.

P.S. Maybe you're right about the total fake:(

totally faked, and badly

http://b.imagehost.org/0424/Untitled_8.png
06-11-2008, 08:21 AM
Papu

i also don't think they would have 19x12 as a res on something professional.they would use 1900x1200.
06-11-2008, 08:25 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papu

i also don't think they would have 19x12 as a res on something professional.they would use 1900x1200.

or have bad punctuation

; then ,

should be :
06-11-2008, 08:41 AM
22JHP

uhh mr. awesome! in the picture green area page2 and page4 look at the first picture.if faker that stupid why second and fourth page?
06-11-2008, 08:48 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22JHP

uhh mr. awesome! in the picture green area page2 and page4 look at the first picture.if faker that stupid why second and fourth page?

I don't understand what you mean.

but they are still fake, a pisspoor job too.
If you want I could fake some then post them on the net.

I'll show the weirdly long page site how it's done

of course my fakes would be researched and based upon specualtion and ATI's own graphs from this year.
Everything would be exact with no poor mismatches, ie; the out of place res on the pic on the fake graph

or the childlike bar graphs. Maybe I would select a better quantative analysis measure
06-11-2008, 08:53 AM
22JHP

loook i'm faker and bad one ok?I'll make first page and second page 1 and 2 got me why second and fourth page?do you believe amd gives to dh these pics in a professional way?
06-11-2008, 08:55 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22JHP

loook i'm faker and bad one ok?I'll make first page and second page 1 and 2 got me why second and fourth page?do you believe amd gives to dh these pics in a professional way?

huh, I honestly do not understand what you are trying to convey :confused:

you admit to faking them?

give me the layered source and I'll fire up corel and fix them up for ya ;)
it'll give me some lulz
06-11-2008, 08:56 AM
mascaras

Quote:

NVIDIA shakened by Radeon HD 4800, lowers prices?

Written by Andreas G 11 June 2008 18:53

It seems that NVIDIA believed that RV770 would only have 480 shader processors, and only be a modest upgrade of the RV670 core. This is suppose to be one of the reasons for the rather high prices of the GeForce GTX cards, that and the ridiculous manufacturing costs. Now that it has been unveiled that RV770 does not have 480 shader processors, but rather 800, it seems NVIDIA might lower the price of the GeForce GTX 260 to make it a bit more appealing in comparison to Radeon HD 4870. We're hearing $399 from more than one source, but we're also hearing that Radeon HD 4870 might not come as cheap as hoped, $349. The GeForce GTX prices are expected to stay put for a long time, but AMD has every possibility to lower the prices of its new graphics cards, if sales are slow, without losing much money.

http://www.nordichardware.com/news,7853.html

regards
06-11-2008, 09:01 AM
22JHP

alright forget the page numbers.faker is not stupid he's insane it seems because he used second and fourth.these pics could be non-permitted, copy, reconst. but today i saw two tests, don't know fake or not but these cards will be great i'm sorry just drop it.
06-11-2008, 09:03 AM
clayton

I hate these nVidia and ATI Quick-Performance overview charts. It's so hard to understand. And I thought my chart was worst.
http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/7...chchartfy9.gif
Detailed to the maxed!
06-11-2008, 09:04 AM
w0mbat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

totally faked, and badly

http://b.imagehost.org/0424/Untitled_8.png

:up: U did a really great job. Ur so good, u even can proof that these real slides are fake. Man, u should be president :rofl:

Did u ever have a real AMD NDA document? If yes, u´d know that these arent fake but real.
06-11-2008, 09:04 AM
Genius_pt

Great news! :up:

So nvidia is to lower prices... if amd "plays the same game" we may see some serious cards with lower prices than expected. Consumers win.
06-11-2008, 09:05 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by mascaras

regards

Thanks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 22JHP

alright forget the page numbers.faker is not stupid he's insane it seems because he used second and fourth.these pics could be non-permitted, copy, reconst. but today i saw two tests, don't know fake or not but these cards will be great i'm sorry just drop it.

yeah, ATI uses percentile grading.
They always have as far as I can remember

http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/Arti.../xf_vs_sli.jpg
http://www.techarp.com/article/AMD/S.../Spider_05.jpg

percentages and not point based like nvidia.
06-11-2008, 09:09 AM
w0mbat

@Jowy Atreides: U are comparing the official slides w/ some leaked ones. Thats just BS.

And no, i wont type "you" in the future just cause u would like it.
06-11-2008, 09:10 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

@Jowy Atreides: U are comparing the official slides w/ some leaked ones. Thats just BS.

And no, i wont type "you" in the future just u would like it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

:up: U did a really great job. Ur so good, u even can proof that these real slides are fake. Man, u should be president :rofl:

Did u ever have a real AMD NDA document? If yes, u´d know that these arent fake but real.

let me guess, you do?
(everyone around here is under nda apparently)

Well, I'd fire whoever made them for sure.
Or at least i'd give them my old QAFB notes and teach them how to use a computer better than a child with excel charts

Please, type "you" in future. I'm not using textspeak so show the same courtesy
06-11-2008, 09:12 AM
w0mbat

Yes, i did and i do have AMD NDA documents.
06-11-2008, 09:15 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

Yes, i did and i do have AMD NDA documents.

good, I want you to tell your superior that whoever collates the data into visual format should be fired.

If these charts are official then someone is terrible at making charts
06-11-2008, 09:19 AM
w0mbat

Just because they look like rubbish it doesnt mean that its a fake. If the reader, which opend this document has eg a lower resolution it looks like that. And then this slide has been cut and so on.
06-11-2008, 09:21 AM
bill_d

i'll bet making charts is not the amd guys only job, so he make the dam charts and got back to what he likes to do
06-11-2008, 09:25 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

Just because they look like rubbish it doesnt mean that its a fake. If the reader, which opend this document has eg a lower resolution it looks like that. And then this slide has been cut and so on.

But it does mean someone is terrible at designing presentations

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

@Jowy Atreides: U are comparing the official slides w/ some leaked ones. Thats just BS.

And no, i wont type "you" in the future just cause u would like it.

It's called coherence, your posts do not have any.

if this wasn't such a nice forum then there would be 20 pictures of Samuel L Jackson with captions on them in this reply.
06-11-2008, 09:31 AM
Hornet331

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

It's called coherence, your posts do not have any.

if this wasn't such a nice forum then there would be 20 pictures of Samuel L Jackson with captions on them in this reply.

:rofl:
06-11-2008, 09:32 AM
G0ldBr1ck

This thread has been more entertaining then educational. It seems that for everyone to not know what all the real specs are that it would be hard to know so indefinitly what is fake.

So this is what I have got from this thread.....Nobody knows what the true specs are of the card but tons of ppl know what the specs are not. Seems then you could subtract everything you know the card isnt from all posabilities and then you would have what the card is.....hrm...very interesting.
06-11-2008, 09:36 AM
Kai Robinson

Speak english m***********! :D
06-11-2008, 09:36 AM
Extelleron

Quote:

Originally Posted by G0ldBr1ck

This thread has been more entertaining then educational. It seems that for everyone to not know what all the real specs are that it would be hard to know so indefinitly what is fake.

So this is what I have got from this thread.....Nobody knows what the true specs are of the card but tons of ppl know what the specs are not. Seems then you could subtract everything you know the card isnt from all posabilities and then you would have what the card is.....hrm...very interesting.

RV770 = 800 SP / 32 or 40 TMU / 16 ROP / 256-bit external/512-bit internal

HD 4850 = 625MHz w/ 512MB GDDR3 @ 2GHz
HD 4870 = 750MHz w/ 512MB GDDR5 @ 3.6GHz

The only thing we don't know exactly is performance. The specs are pretty well known, the only thing I am not sure about is the number of TMUs.
06-11-2008, 09:44 AM
w0mbat

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

But it does mean someone is terrible at designing presentations

It's called coherence, your posts do not have any.

if this wasn't such a nice forum then there would be 20 pictures of Samuel L Jackson with captions on them in this reply.

No, it means that someone is just terrible @ presenting them.

And i dont care if there are 20000 pic w/ Samuel L. Jackson, u could even post a pic of ur grandma or the pope. :shrug:
06-11-2008, 09:45 AM
conzymaher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jowy Atreides

if this wasn't such a nice forum then there would be 20 pictures of Samuel L Jackson with captions on them in this reply.

http://images.dawgsports.com/images/...l_with_gun.bmp http://peakperformances.co.za/inside..._jackson_1.jpg
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/211...1597SxAW_w.jpg http://swisscharts.com/actorimages/samuel_l_jackson.jpg
http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-pho...rds-0HPcg4.jpg
http://www.slybaldguys.com/serendipi...on-6223710.jpg
http://www.biography.com/famous/imag...on_320x240.jpg
http://www.theaspectratio.net/quiz-jackson.jpg
http://swisscharts.com/actorimages/samuel_l_jackson.jpg

k
06-11-2008, 09:49 AM
Jowy Atreides

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

No, it means that someone is just terrible @ presenting them.

And i dont care if there are 20000 pic w/ Samuel L. Jackson, u could even post a pic of ur grandma or the pope. :shrug:

You type like a... (insert whatever colloquial insult you imagine here)
or how Opie from family guy sounds when he speaks.

btw. ati have done well for themselves by hiring you :clap:
*Blocked*
06-11-2008, 09:54 AM
GoldenTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

No, it means that someone is just terrible @ presenting them.

And i dont care if there are 20000 pic w/ Samuel L. Jackson, u could even post a pic of ur grandma or the pope. :shrug:

I have to admit, that using the kind of writing you do, no one's really going to take what you say seriously. You sound like a teenager who just learned that forums existed, not an adult in the industry who might actually be under an NDA for an upcoming hardware product.
06-11-2008, 09:56 AM
22JHP

test page
http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_23897423/tm.htm
11 Haziran 2008; 17:35:40

second news
http://forum.donanimhaber.com/m_23898334/tm.htm
11 Haziran 2008; 18:07:10

- NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260: 399$

all fake or all true.
06-11-2008, 10:03 AM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by w0mbat

Yes, i did and i do have AMD NDA documents.

If you have nothing to say just STFU. We already know you're under NDA, no need of 20 more post to confirm.
06-11-2008, 10:12 AM
fng77

[QUOTE=Helmore;3051393]Eh, what does that even mean, what the heck is 'perlin noise'?

:rofl: Lol.

I´m not laughing at that u dont now what perlin noise is, I dont have a clue either. I just love honest question.
06-11-2008, 10:12 AM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

If you have nothing to say just STFU. We already know you're under NDA, no need of 20 more post to confirm.

Before you go all "STFU",maybe you should read his post in which he says that slides are not fake...
So he had something to say about it and he did.Now you just made yourself look like a forum bully :rolleyes:
06-11-2008, 10:23 AM
fng77

Quote:

Originally Posted by 003

And it's also got 480 shaders. Damn, the 4000 series is going to suck. What a let down. That will likely go for the 4870 as well. If the 4850 scores X2700 in vantage, then the 4870 will maybe score X3100, which may even be optimistic. If the GTX 280 is scoring X4800, the 4870 is going to get pounded in a huge way.

And I sincerely doubt the 4870X2 is going to score X5500. I mean thats not far off from double the performance, and multi GPU configurations do NOT scale that well.

I cant understand why you compare the 4850 and 4870 with the gtx 280. The 280 cost more than twice as much!!
06-11-2008, 10:24 AM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

Before you go all "STFU",maybe you should read his post in which he says that slides are not fake...
So he had something to say about it and he did.Now you just made yourself look like a forum bully :rolleyes:

Before you start going against everyone that doesn't say AMD ruls you should read ALL his post.
06-11-2008, 10:27 AM
Luka_Aveiro

My god w0mbat is Hector defending is graph maker to not fire him :rofl:
06-11-2008, 10:28 AM
Helmore

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

I have to admit, that using the kind of writing you do, no one's really going to take what you say seriously. You sound like a teenager who just learned that forums existed, not an adult in the industry who might actually be under an NDA for an upcoming hardware product.

I don't completely agree here, you should keep in mind that there are lots of people here for whom English is not their native/first language. That also includes me.
06-11-2008, 10:28 AM
informal

Quote:

Originally Posted by STaRGaZeR

Before you start going against everyone that doesn't say AMD ruls you should read ALL his post.

Before you start that "going against everyone.." crap(which only you know "is true"),i did read his posts and he just replied to that annoying dude who was trying to make himself a name by proclaiming he found out the slides are fake since he noticed a glitches in presentation...
And wombat wouldn't post that just to piss any one off,he was trying to make a point.And yes he is under NDA,and no you aren't,so get over it!

PS this is my second post in this thread(or 3rd).As you can see i didn't "go against everyone that doesn't say AMD ruls" (sic).
06-11-2008, 10:31 AM
STaRGaZeR

Quote:

Originally Posted by informal

And yes he is under NDA,and no you aren't,so get over it!

Like if I want! No please :rofl:

Info = good.
BS and not concrete info = bad. If you want to say something, just say it. If you want but you can't, just STFU. We already have some guys that do that, no need for another one.
06-11-2008, 10:35 AM
zerazax

I'm going to laugh if all these claimed fake slides were real, and AMD just has a powerpoint maker who either sucks at powerpoint or hates aesthetics (probably an engineer did it I bet)
06-11-2008, 10:39 AM
fng77

Quote:
Originally Posted by 22JHP
loook i'm faker and bad one ok?I'll make first page and second page 1 and 2 got me why second and fourth page?do you believe amd gives to dh these pics in a professional way?

huh, I honestly do not understand what you are trying to convey

you admit to faking them?

give me the layered source and I'll fire up corel and fix them up for ya
it'll give me some lulz

:rofl::rofl::rofl: I just love some of these discussions :rofl::rofl:
06-11-2008, 10:42 AM
zerazax

I think he was trying to be facetious in that he doesn't see why they'd fake the slides and number them 2 and 4 if a faker would probably number them 1 and 2

I dunno, maybe page 1 and 3 are the pictures of the 4870 and 4850 slides we saw earlier leaked?

Anywho, if those performance numbers are true, then I can see Nvidia pushing GTX260 down to $399 to compete against nvidia since even with the 55nm shrink of G92b, it'll be hard pressed to compete against those numbers
06-11-2008, 10:45 AM
fng77

Quote:

Originally Posted by conzymaher

http://images.dawgsports.com/images/...l_with_gun.bmp http://peakperformances.co.za/inside..._jackson_1.jpg
http://www.worth1000.com/entries/211...1597SxAW_w.jpg http://swisscharts.com/actorimages/samuel_l_jackson.jpg
http://www.exposay.com/celebrity-pho...rds-0HPcg4.jpg
http://www.slybaldguys.com/serendipi...on-6223710.jpg
http://www.biography.com/famous/imag...on_320x240.jpg
http://www.theaspectratio.net/quiz-jackson.jpg
http://swisscharts.com/actorimages/samuel_l_jackson.jpg

k

These pictures are fake. :yepp:
06-11-2008, 10:45 AM
w0mbat

Im just trying to say that even official slides/documents, when they arent ment to be released to the public, can look like the latest crap and be still no fake. i saw some amd nda slides which looked much more like rubbish then the ones posted today. the new ones look pretty much the same like some i saw a few weeks ago.

of cause theres nothing for 100% shure, so these slides could be fakes. but the "evidence" which got posted to declare this as a fake just doesnt proof anything. thats all i wanted to say here.

im not here to piss of anyone and im writing like this cause im german and not very good at english.
06-11-2008, 10:47 AM
Papu

Quote:

Originally Posted by fng77

These pictures are fake. :yepp:

yes here is the real Sam jackson!
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...SamJackson.jpg
06-11-2008, 10:50 AM
zerazax

And the FYI on the Perlin Noise i mentioned:

Perlin noise is a ALU (shader)-bound test in 3dMark (06 and Vantage) that few people utilize

However, it's probably one of the better tests (along with a lot of the secondary tests which go underutilized) for analyzing maximum shader performance. So on shaders and shaders only (forget the rest of the card such as ROPS, TMU's, etc. for the most part):

Quote:

perlin noise

HD3870: 175
HD4850: 335

That was from no-x at B3d.

If you do the math, 335/175 = 1.914

Rumored clocks and SP Count: (625Mhz * 800SP) / (775Mhz * 320SP) = 2.02

if you try using 480SP, the math just doesn't work.

For comparison:

Quote:

3850 149
3870 173 (+16%, = freq. diff. b/w 3850 & 3870)
8800GT 145
8800GTS 177 (+22%, = freq. & ALU diff. b/w 8800GT & 8800GTS)

That was from this sharkyextreme review

So it's a pretty good estimate of ALU performance within architecture and is almost entirely shader * core bound (obviously thigns like memorybandwidth and other lesser things will matter, and fyi the 3870 has more bandwidth than the 4850)

elitebastards got 345 out of the 9800GX2 for comparison, and going by theoretical TFlop count, the 4850 is right in line... and if the 4870 is 20% better, we're going to have some pretty impressive shader performance out of these cards (gogo GPGPU programs!)
06-11-2008, 10:51 AM
fng77

Papu:

You are killing me LOOOOLLL. :up:
06-11-2008, 11:10 AM
fng77

1 Attachment(s)

Btw.

HD4850 And gtx 280 are both out on Prisjakt, a swedish equivalence to Pricerunner.

1 USD = 6.5 Swedish Kronor. Very resoneble price for the 4850 I think
06-11-2008, 11:22 AM
informal

HD4850 early review?! (or is it another fake?? )
http://publish.it168.com/2008/0610/20080610041601.shtml

mark06 12x10,no AA,no AF:
http://s1.screenshots.cc/upload/a2554353.jpg

Vantage scores:
http://publish.it168.com/2008/0610/20080610041604.shtml

PS Stargazer,is this fitting your posting standards :p: ?
06-11-2008, 11:26 AM
conzymaher

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papu

yes here is the real Sam jackson!
http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d1...SamJackson.jpg

mmmmmmmmmh MMMMMMMMMH SAMUEL L JACKSON BEER
06-11-2008, 11:31 AM
bigslappy

Quote:

Originally Posted by fng77

Btw.

HD4850 And gtx 280 are both out on Prisjakt, a swedish equivalence to Pricerunner.

1 USD = 6.5 Swedish Kronor. Very resoneble price for the 4850 I think

Real or fake ?

L O L

This thread is Really funny !

~ I hear Elvis is writing the code for the drivers as we speak ! ~
06-11-2008, 11:35 AM
NH|Delph1

Quote:

Originally Posted by perkam

You are the 5th person to post that :)

It's fake. ;) Moving on, lets all do an online wave !! :o

Perkam

No, it's real. RV770 has 800SPs. GPU-Z is simply outdated.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet331

seems they got problems with the gddr5 memory... only 1800 mhz clock (slowest bin)? :confused:

It's a power consumption thing. There's nothing wrong with GDDR5.

On a side note, Anyone who has actually seen an AMD presentation knows that there are usually a number of graphical and spelling errors. They are not proof of the slide being fake. Sadly, that's how they look, and to be honest an AMD presentation wouldn't be complete without them.

//Andreas

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