The Fermi Thread - Part 3

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03-19-2010, 04:57 AM
LesGrossman

Quote:

Originally Posted by insurgent

Considering it's size and lengthy development performance should be mind blowing. Nv is making them as fast as possible, ATI is making them as small as possible.

lol to the coma guy that woke up and doesn't know what's going on.
03-19-2010, 05:12 AM
annihilat0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDiaz

You know what's sad? People will still buy these cards even if:

1 - Power consumption is off the charts
2 - There is < 10% performance increase over the 5xxxx series
3 - More expensive than the 5xxxx series

/shrug

wow, who would buy a card that's both better performing and more expensive
03-19-2010, 05:25 AM
MrDiaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by annihilat0r

wow, who would buy a card that's both better performing and more expensive

Terrible sarcasm...

Clearly you don't understand a thing
03-19-2010, 05:29 AM
annihilat0r

5970 is %70 more TDP, %75 more $$ and %40 better performing than 5870. Do you consider it a good card?

Cos, GTX 480 seems to be %33 more TDP (it's 250W not 300), %25 more $$ and %10 better performing than 5870. From where I stand it doesn't look incredibly worse. Thing is, when you move towards high end, there is diminishing marginal utility for every $1 and every 1W you spend.

Granted it doesn't look like the best card out there. But it also doesn't look like the worst release ever either.
03-19-2010, 05:34 AM
MrDiaz

GTX 480 TDP is 295W, where are you getting 250W from? And sure the 5970 is a good card (2 actually but w/e) but who owns of one these? 1% of the tech community probably. I consider the 5850 the best card out there right now, 5870 coming in closely.

I don't see why you would pay that much for the 5970 unless you are doing professional work that would require its computing power. Anything else are bragging rights.
03-19-2010, 05:35 AM
duploxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by prava

I'm afraid in hardware it doesn't work that way :)

Few comparisons:

5870 @ Newegg : $404

That would be around 300€, but you wont find 5870 for less than 340€

5970 @ Newegg : $700

That would be around 514€. You won't find them for less than 540€.

And so on.

Although there is something curious about that...spaniards had to import stuff a few years ago in order to get proper prices...now we could even export as our prices are probably within the best around the EU community. Heck, a few years ago I was buying in UK and now it has gotten soooo expensive that even if pounds = euros we would only be saving a little :rofl::ROTF:

difficult to compare prices and currency ratio's, it is country depending, I just found both cards you specified from Sapphire below your lowest price limit in my region.

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/zoeken/?keyword=5870
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/zoeken/?keyword=5970

to see if Fermi will be a success we'll have to wait for the final reviews and prices. All we know today is that it has a huge die size against ATI 58xx series and a more expensive board design which isn't good for a price war for nvidia, not to mention the so far leaked performance and power consumption but that has to be proven yet.
03-19-2010, 05:40 AM
azza21

Quote:

Originally Posted by saaya

gtx480 sli, gtx485... come on man, get a grip :D

have you guys seen this?
http://www.techpowerup.com/117897/Ge...s_Surface.html
the good:
low prices

the bad:
high tdp
low 470 clocks
low mem clocks
only 480 cores for gtx480

the ugly:
performance...

Mate i hope techpower is seriously wrong here. Only +7 increase in performance over a 5870, which is 6 months older...? Come on, after all the anticipation, hype, build up it best perform atleast twice of that techpower are reporting or i will be massively disappointed :shakes:
03-19-2010, 05:40 AM
GoldenTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesGrossman

lol to the coma guy that woke up and doesn't know what's going on.

LOL, nice joke :).
03-19-2010, 05:41 AM
Boissez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Picao84

And price is really what matters no? How many people look at power? 30W more is peanuts, comparing to one TV or a Microwave :p

You're right. What really matters is idle consumption (GFX are idle like 90% of the time anyway). Noise/temp can be an issue though...
03-19-2010, 05:43 AM
annihilat0r

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDiaz

GTX 480 TDP is 295W, where are you getting 250W from? And sure the 5970 is a good card (2 actually but w/e) but who owns of one these? 1% of the tech community probably. I consider the 5850 the best card out there right now, 5870 coming in closely.

I don't see why you would pay that much for the 5970 unless you are doing professional work that would require its computing power. Anything else are bragging rights.

It's not 295W, it's 250W, check VR-Zone. I get your point about nobody needing such cards (I don't) but well, this is a high-end launch. GTX 470 doesn't seem that bad from a price / performance viewpoint. Its performance might not be as good as 5870 but it has several advantages over it such as PhysX, CUDA and superior tessellation performance. Also it's cheaper than 5870 and I believe its price is justified.
03-19-2010, 05:45 AM
annihilat0r

Charlie said it's 70C. On idle 2D clocks. On fan set to %70. lolz
03-19-2010, 05:46 AM
Motiv

Quote:

Originally Posted by duploxxx

difficult to compare prices and currency ratio's, it is country depending, I just found both cards you specified from Sapphire below your lowest price limit in my region.

http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/zoeken/?keyword=5870
http://tweakers.net/pricewatch/zoeken/?keyword=5970

to see if Fermi will be a success we'll have to wait for the final reviews and prices. All we know today is that it has a huge die size against ATI 58xx series and a more expensive board design which isn't good for a price war for nvidia, not to mention the so far leaked performance and power consumption but that has to be proven yet.

There will be no price war. The cars will all have prices that will compare with performance (comparative to ATI).

expect price gouging at first until supply meets demand.
03-19-2010, 05:48 AM
GoldenTiger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leeghoofd

Not all users buy cards coz they are the fastest in games or benches...
Some are loyal to one brand, no matter what. Some prefer to stick with a brand coz they personally never had any issues with it. Some do other things with videocards then game on them...

Exactly. I have personally never had any real driver issues with nVidia while ATI's 4xxx and ESPECIALLY the 5xxx ones have given me a lot of aggravation and problems. Add in PhysX support for Batman and Mirror's Edge, as well as a even a bit better performance (let alone the possibility of 15%-20%+ that still remains) and the deal suddenly looks very sweet after having sold my 5870 to fund a Fermi.

MrDiaz blasphemy, someone would pay more for a better driver, superior performance, and extra features!? What kind of heretical practice IS this?! That's what I'd be saying if I believed in your ways... :p: .
03-19-2010, 05:49 AM
MrDiaz

We won't know ANYTHING until benchmarks have been posted, so all this is pure especulation... You can't tell me the 470 is close to the 5870, or the other way around. I'm just speaking from the "technical specs" and rumoured prices we've seen so far.

I'm in no way diminishing nVidia either, I'd love to see some serious kick-ass performance gains, but like I said, if this means an "unfair" price raise then screw that. And we all know nVidia and their pricing philosophy... I cannot recall a card they've released that has been priced fairly, they are extremely pricey.

Just my opinion, you can take it like a grain of salt ;)
03-19-2010, 05:52 AM
kromosto

let me make a prediction from the things we know (or we think we know). we will see new nvidia dx11 cards in 4 months after the realease of 480, i mean replacement of 480 not 420 or 430 kind of cards.
03-19-2010, 05:54 AM
MrDiaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

MrDiaz blasphemy, someone would pay more for a better driver, superior performance, and extra features!? What kind of heretical practice IS this?! That's what I'd be saying if I believed in your ways... :p: .

What features? Again, you're looking at it from YOUR point of view, YOUR preferences, YOUR gains. I myself have an nVidia card (8800 GT lol) had it since release date and had zero problems with it. Only issue with ATI is driver support, but since that's software, there is always hope for improvement.

I mean it's crazy, when the 5xxxx series came out, they COMPLETELY destroyed the entire nVidia lineup, despite their "drivers issue". Now FERMI cards that bring barely any performance gains for significantly more $$ have people going insane over this.
03-19-2010, 05:59 AM
MrDiaz

Of course there will be new cards... different chips. However a "replacement" is unlikely
03-19-2010, 06:04 AM
ethomaz

@neliz on Beyond3D about 480SPs from vr-zone forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by neliz

Because it is NOT 480 for the GTX480.

So... it means hummm... 480SPs for GTX 470??? :shrug:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showpost.p...postcount=4078
03-19-2010, 06:10 AM
kromosto

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDiaz

Of course there will be new cards... different chips. However a "replacement" is unlikely

i mean a replacement.
03-19-2010, 06:12 AM
MrDiaz

Yeah that ain't gonna happen :P
03-19-2010, 06:15 AM
duploxxx

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoldenTiger

Exactly. I have personally never had any real driver issues with nVidia while ATI's 4xxx and ESPECIALLY the 5xxx ones have given me a lot of aggravation and problems. Add in PhysX support for Batman and Mirror's Edge, as well as a even a bit better performance (let alone the possibility of 15%-20%+ that still remains) and the deal suddenly looks very sweet after having sold my 5870 to fund a Fermi.

MrDiaz blasphemy, someone would pay more for a better driver, superior performance, and extra features!? What kind of heretical practice IS this?! That's what I'd be saying if I believed in your ways... :p: .

have my single 5xxx now for about 4-5 months playing latest games, never had ANY driver issue and i always update after a few days of release to the latest version, there are always a few bugs you find those for ALL vendors.

what are people always complaining about on single card setup, sure it isn't the person behind the keyboard and mouse:confused:
03-19-2010, 06:17 AM
kromosto

actually before my 8800gts512 died i play baa with it now i am with a 5870 didnt see any difference. also i dont have driver issues. actually i was waiting for 480 to upgrade my 8800 but because it died early i bought 5870 and begin to wait 480 to replace 5870 (gain or not everybody has different ideas but i like phsyx) but with these specs i will continue to use my 5870.
03-19-2010, 06:19 AM
kromosto

you think so like that but i am pretty sure about this. like atis r600
03-19-2010, 06:24 AM
Iconyu

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrDiaz

Of course there will be new cards... different chips. However a "replacement" is unlikely

Actually, they might. When the 5800 was delayed nvidia announced the refreshed 5900 within a quarter of the 5800 hitting the streets.

I can't remember nvidia making any mention of the 5900 until after the 5800 had launched.
03-19-2010, 06:30 AM
MrDiaz

Yeah but that's not a replacement...

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