Real Temp - New temp program for Intel Core processors

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03-25-2008, 10:45 AM
naTTan

Unclewebb, i also have a E8400 with a very inaccurate temp reading. What can i do to get a custom profile from you? Hope u're willing to help me. Thanks in advance.
03-25-2008, 12:04 PM
Ced-G60

The part i don't understand... is this suppose to be a bug in the line of the E8x00 series or they just changed the way it work and we need to wait for some fix on temps program's ?

Are we suppose to RMA our CPU or just live with it ?
03-25-2008, 12:05 PM
WoZZeR999

As long as the DTS sensor is doing what it's supposed to do (trip at the TjMan), you can't RMA it. It's something you will probably just have to live with.
03-25-2008, 12:11 PM
Ced-G60

OK, am fine with that part, now the question is, did they design it like that ?

Sound like cheap work from intel for a 300$ part
03-25-2008, 12:26 PM
jaredpace

We should design a program to read dts output and categorize it showing delta to Thermal junction max. Since the gradient is relatively small, it would be sensible to show a graph or quantitative progress bar that served as an overclocking thermometer.

None of the programs are working with ease, effectively, for the basic overclocker out there that is curious about his/her temperatures. Kind of like a thermostat in a vehicle.... (with all pertinent technical data in numbers displayed to the side as in the realtemp 2.2 or coretemp) you could see a meter like this:
-Temperature-
|||||||||low|||||||||||||med||||||||:oscar:||||||HIGH||||:explode2:
E8400:
--3.0g-----3.6g----4.0g----4.2g----4.3g---4.5g---4.6g--

speed: 4310 mhz
vcore: 1.42 volts
tj max: 94.5C
Core 0: 77C
Core 1: 78C

:ROTF:
03-25-2008, 11:34 PM
Wompa164

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredpace

None of the programs are working with ease, effectively, for the basic overclocker out there that is curious about his/her temperatures. Kind of like a thermostat in a vehicle.... (with all pertinent technical data in numbers displayed to the side as in the realtemp 2.2 or coretemp) you could see a meter like this:
-Temperature-
|||||||||low|||||||||||||med||||||||:oscar:||||||HIGH||||:explode2:
E8400:
--3.0g-----3.6g----4.0g----4.2g----4.3g---4.5g---4.6g--

I don't mean to be picky, but that's not what a thermostat does in a car :)
03-26-2008, 01:18 AM
pitadotcom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unrealer

Done.

E4300 @ 3.2Ghz (1.42v full) + Big Typhoon VX @ 1800rpms
18.5º ambient temp.

47º @ Real Temp.
62º @ Core Temp.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1.../Dibujo-46.jpg

47º @ full ?? :confused:

i think u need 2 calibrate it on ++. i got e4300 and thats wat i use. i should do a occt run since i got almost the same setup as u. except im on 8x375 stock volts and my abmient temp is about 25c
03-26-2008, 01:22 AM
Demo

On a Q6600 B3, around how much is the estimated TjMax ?
03-26-2008, 10:29 AM
Unrealer

Quote:

Originally Posted by pitadotcom

i think u need 2 calibrate it on ++. i got e4300 and thats wat i use. i should do a occt run since i got almost the same setup as u. except im on 8x375 stock volts and my abmient temp is about 25c

So, 49º @ full?

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1.../Dibujo-47.jpg
03-26-2008, 10:37 AM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wompa164

I don't mean to be picky, but that's not what a thermostat does in a car :)

what does a thermostat in a car say?
03-26-2008, 10:43 AM
jas420221

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredpace

what does a thermostat in a car say?

Its says OPEN or CLOSE. :rofl:
03-26-2008, 11:42 AM
jaredpace

Quote:

Originally Posted by jas420221

Its says OPEN or CLOSE. :rofl:

hahah i dont get it?
03-26-2008, 11:45 AM
jason4207

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaredpace

hahah i dont get it?

I think you're confusing the thermostat w/ the coolant temperature gauge.

The thermostat opens or closes depending on the temperature of the coolant.

The coolant temperature gauge will rise and fall w/ the temperature of the coolant.
03-26-2008, 12:27 PM
jas420221

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason4207

I think you're confusing the thermostat w/ the coolant temperature gauge.

The thermostat opens or closes depending on the temperature of the coolant.

The coolant temperature gauge will rise and fall w/ the temperature of the coolant.

Well said...He is confusing a thermostat and a thermometer.

One measures temperatures (thermometer). The other opens or closes/turns on or off at a pre determined temperature.
03-26-2008, 01:50 PM
TEDY

is it normal when 1 core 31°c and other 20-21°c in IDLE? in LOAD they're pretty same.
03-26-2008, 02:35 PM
unclewebb

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEDY

is it normal when 1 core 31°c and other 20-21°c in IDLE? in LOAD they're pretty same.

Unfortunately, it's very normal for many E8400 CPUs and very rare if you have an older 65nm Core CPU.
03-26-2008, 04:26 PM
unclewebb

Unrealer: I had a look at your results and decided to give you some numbers to compare to.

I presently have my E2160 still in and I ran it at 1.424 volts (load) just like yours. I tried to run it at 3150 MHz but it wasn't 100% stable here which I guess is why it ended up in the Pentium bin. I dropped down to 3000 MHz and kept the voltage the same to maintain stability for testing.

With similar room temps of 18C to 19C I recorded a maximum temp of 54C. If you go back a couple of pages in this thread you will see that the RealTemp reported temps are almost identical to what the IR thermometer reports for this processor.

I was using a Tuniq Tower with the fan at about 1750 rpm in a closed case. Considering all the variables, your RealTemp readings for your E4300 look very reasonable and believable to me.

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/9955/occtidlejb0.png

http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/2504/occtendpm2.png

At 50C to 54C, the OCCT reported temp which comes from SpeedFan was identical to what RealTemp was reporting. The idle calibration feature has no effect at this temp but added 3C to the idle temps. The second screen shot was at the exact moment that OCCT went to the Idle phase. RealTemp shows that the temp has just dropped while OCCT / SpeedFan is still reporting 53C which is what RealTemp was reporting a second before.

OCCT at 3150 MHz also peaked at 54C but it usually crashed within 5 minutes. A small change in MHz makes virtually no difference in temps as long as the core voltage is kept constant. I hope this testing helps you decide whether CoreTemp or RealTemp is more believable for your E4300.

Edit: Just a quick pic to show that OCCT / SpeedFan = RealTemp at full load since both programs use the same TjMax for the E2160.
http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9...ealtempis5.png
03-26-2008, 05:12 PM
Unrealer

IDLE temp:

E4300 @ 3.2Ghz (2.13 @ speedstep) 1.44v idle
Ambient temp: 17º
Big Typhoon @ 1000rpms

TAT: 37
SPEEDFAN (default): 21º
CoreTemp: 36º
RealTemp: 27º

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1.../Dibujo-49.png
03-26-2008, 05:52 PM
jaredpace

okay yes i meant thermometer. we need a cpu thermometer based on delta to tjmax.
03-26-2008, 07:10 PM
dart22

Unclewebb:

I have the new C2Q 9300 which is listed as a M1 stepping, do you happin to Know what the Tj Max
core temp says that my idle is around 52 ( open air with TR Ultima 90)
my MB says 24
I have Vista and couldn't get real temp to work so i cant rebort its readings

Thanks
03-27-2008, 08:16 AM
unclewebb

Quote:

Originally Posted by dart22

I have Vista and couldn't get real temp to work so i cant rebort its readings

Right click on RealTemp and run it as Administrator and it should work fine in Vista.

Unrealer: So what's your conclusion? Do you trust any of these programs to accurately report your core temperatures from idle to full load? If you are still unsure then I guess someday I'll have to buy an E4300 to solve this mystery once and for all. With the Idle Calibration at (++) and your cpu at low MHz and low volts, what does RealTemp report after is has been at idle for a minute or two compared to your room temp?

Your 27C idle temp looks pretty similar to my 26C idle temp above using the same core voltage, more or less.
03-27-2008, 08:18 AM
Chrysalis

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

That goes completely against what Intel testing has shown. There are times, depending on what software you are running and definitely at idle that the delta between TCase and the core temp approaches zero.

rge has been following this subject very closely and provides plenty of documentation. His post on the previous page of this thread is a good example.
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=384

If you are only concerned about load temps then leave the Idle correction at 0. Your B2 E6420 has a TjMax=85C so your load temps should be reported very accurately.

At very low idle temperatures, my B2 E6400 and many other B2, L2 and M0 processors will report temperatures slightly below ambient which is impossible for an air cooled processor. If a user notices this and is concerned about this then they can set either a (+) or (++) correction in RealTemp to boost their reported idle temperatures.

Anyone that wants to check for this can simply run their processor at 266x6 ~ 1600 MHz and drop your core voltage down to 1.10 volts. Turn up your CPU fan to max, open your case and try to get your CPU as cool as possible. A typical reading in this test is about 4C above your ambient temperature. If software is reporting temperatures below ambient during this test then it is wrong. It may become correct at full load but your idle temps are wrong and if you want a more accurate idle temp then use the RealTemp correction feature.

I don't think that is too hard to follow. Let me know anything that needs to be clearer.

Thanks this is what I wanted confirming, I am not too fussy if my idle temps are a few degrees out as long as under load temps are correct. All the documents people are posting seem to be saying a thermometer is required and they all have long technical explanations.
03-27-2008, 08:53 AM
euonline

Nice work!

Finally a program that reads the E8000s. :clap:

unclewebb, would be possible to make it minimize to TRAY?

Regards.
03-27-2008, 11:05 AM
Unrealer

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

With the Idle Calibration at (++) and your cpu at low MHz and low volts, what does RealTemp report after is has been at idle for a minute or two compared to your room temp?

E4300 @ 1.8Ghz (1.2 @ speedstep) 1.23v idle/1.22 full
Ambient temp: 17.5º
Big Typhoon @ 1800rpms

IDLE

SPEEDFAN (default): 17º
CoreTemp: 32º
RealTemp: 24º

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...um2/idle-1.jpg

FULL

SPEEDFAN (default): 28º
CoreTemp: 42º
RealTemp: 33º

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e1...um2/full-1.jpg

Quote:

Originally Posted by unclewebb

Unrealer: So what's your conclusion? Do you trust any of these programs to accurately report your core temperatures from idle to full load? If you are still unsure then I guess someday I'll have to buy an E4300 to solve this mystery once and for all.

Im really unsure :S
03-27-2008, 03:01 PM
dart22

Unclewebb:
Thanks i managed to make it work on vista, real temp is telling me that my Q9300 Tj max is 95 i still think its its not right because my cooler does not seem that hot to touch niether does the base of the heat sink!
Real Temp is giving me 46 idle and 68 load!
i used an IR meter and i could not get any temp over 33 Idle near the cpu!
Gigabyte's Easy Tune is giving me 28 idle 52 Load!
Also I just want to mention that the Q9300 has a different stepping (M1) than the Q9450 and the E8xxx (C1)
So whats your take on that ?

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